Thanks for the update B6. It's good to be kept in the loop. From what I've been reading so far the patch is mainly for optimizing the graphics engine so we have no more ctd's and memory leaks and last but not least, playability for our brothers and sisters with lesser equipment. Never read anything about fixing comm's, AI behaviour or any other anoying bugs with the next patch. Been having a ball with the game myself and have not had a ctd in ages. (I don't play online, maybe that's why I have had no ctd's.)

I like the Il2, it is really very very nice. Thank you Ilya and BlackSix.

Thanks for the screenshots of the fall landscape in the sequel. I was thinking the same thing as Kestrel 79.. about it needing a little variance in the tree shades and tree types. Ive never been to Russia, do they only have 1 type of tree there? Even if some of the trees were different shades to break it up a bit, I realize its still a (WIP).. so its just an observation.
I don't have the CTD issue very often, but am anxious to hear some news on it, because so many other people are suffering from it. Happy players lead to happy forums..heh
I would also like to hear some development progress on how the FM, AI and radio commands are coming along. Even if its only( were working on the Radio commands.. we have " Attack Ground Targets") fixed, but were still working on So and so..
Stuff like that will go along way towards the "Mending customer relations" process.
I really do appreciate all you guys do, "Behind the scenes" to keep making this Sim better and better.. even though it never comes as fast as we all want it to..lol
Patience is a Virtue..but not all of us were in line when it was passed out.;)
Further more i appreciate all the hard work that Blackdog kT has put into keeping this thread On Topic! Very Refreshing. I can see hes been busy this morning. S! 8-)

Nice pics of the il2, though not too difficult to imagine how it would look in COD clothing, it barely gets me through to another Friday, roll on the release of the beta for the prequel to the sequel:neutral:

Fingers crossed it's in the coming week!

Fantastic!!!! new coloured trees,just what we need a!!!.
Thanks for the update B6.

Cheese

ungrateful whip

Mod Edit: Please refrain from verbally attacking other users, regardless of their opinions. In case of finding something you consider disagreeable, you are welcome to report the post and if rules are broken the mods will take appropriate action. In this case, Tree's post doesn't break any rules and is well within the scope of the update thread (asking a question). Thank you.

for a second, i want recommend put some red and green trees , because i wasn't familiar seeing all yellow trees. But, researching a little, found that in that particular region, the trees becomes from green to yellow, never red. so, i don't say nothing. good work

my ask is for winter time. Snow in the airfield. will be marks? the plane can sunk in snow field (outside the airfield)? will be nice see that. In the stuka, for example, germans, in winter, quit themudguard because they crash to the ground in landings. (again, correct me I.I.A.W.:roll:)

lol, :grin: Or just someone who purchased the game a year ago and still cant play without it crashing?? ungrateful? well im still here and still waiting and think im entiltled to ask a question seeing as I've invested in this project. Anyhow rant over, in future though could you pm me your little personal attacks so i can reply more bluntly without upsetting anyone but your goodself. S! Tree

Mod edit: You know the drill. Report instead of respond and let us see if rules are broken. Thank you for keeping it civil so far, don't get dragged into anything now ;)

Indeed...Soon, we will get sued by some forum members for being responsable for COD's initial failure because of our " selfish , unjustifed and childish bashing"...:grin:

Salute !

Mod Edit: Same as above post.

Well, as the memory leak seems to be related to texture loading a rewrite of the graphics engine for sure will eliminate it (as texture loading is a central part of a graphics engine)... And maybe introduce new ones... that are a lot easier to fix if they have done a good rewrite ;)

Besides, Ilya has already stated that code section with the memory leak is not there in the new patch, so I don't understand why everyone asks the same question over and over again... But OK, I maybe do understand the anxiety as it's the memory leak that has made me stop playing the game since the last patch ;)

Your post Blacksix is big joke!!!!!!!!!You showed us old Il2, but question is:WHEN YOU FIX CloD!!!!!!!!!!!!!Remember you have my 40 euro so I want to get playble game ASAP.Have a good weekend too.

Mod Edit: You are welcome to ask questions and you are welcome to post a negative opinion. What you are not welcome to do is display bad manners like you have just done. Saying "i think this and this is not good" is ok, saying "i think this is a big joke" is aggressive and is not ok. I understand that many people here are not native English speakers (i'm not either), but please take care to use appropriate language.

Excellent.

That gives me time to install and set everything on my mostly complete Rig.

CPU out 27,9°C and GPU out 28,2°C at the moment. :cool:

Well I can say that VERY SLOWLY 1C is getting my intrest back. I had to buy a new OS to run this. XP will NOT run it( minimum specs need to be updated). I WILL NOT buy the sequel till you have a $50 HD taker of space fixed and all promises of the CloD series are met to the people that have already spent their hard earned money on. Being in customer service I can say when I tell that person that the job is done and perfect and EXACTLY what they paid for....it will be that way.....or else I wont put my name on it. I have said this before and I will again get your poop in a group make us a flight sim to die for and we will be loyal to the end screw us and.......Until then I am on the fence for 1C.

Now censor that.... it is right on target for the topic...and I dont think I should have to make a whole new thread to let you know that sales will be at an all time low until satisfaction is met.

S!

Mod Edit: The meaning of your post is ok. It's you language and delivery that needs a tiny bit of work ;) Please cooperate with us in the future. Thank you.

What I don't understand was in a few updates ago they said they had run benchmarks with the fps average of 70+ and high of 140+ so if thats the case ( even in BETA ) why wont that be in the BETA patch?

Huh?! The first beta patch which we will receive soon I hope, will be a performance patch thus including above mentioned fps increases. I don't get your question. Other stuff will come with later patches.

Yes Xp does have a problem running it for me too:)

Dynamic campaign
 

I am so desperate for a dynamic campaign that I bought the Enemy Engaged helicopter sim and installed the EECH central mod.
Didn't know it was so damn hard to fly a helicopter, jeez cant relax one bit there. And the landings! My god took me many hours just to land and I am still having problem to land on the excact spot. And if you try to land straight down, the vortex ring will bring you to your death.
But the dynamic campaign is worth it. Incredible. Feel like you are in a huge war. Lots of different missions to chose from too.

So please give me a proper dynamic campaign for Cliffs of dover!
I'm not made to be a chopper pilot :(

So... will the patch fix any bugs or will it just add ground vehicles to a barely-functional game?

I read it the other way around. The (First ) Beta patch will only be graphics improvements.

I can easily be happy with just a patch that gives a smoothness to performance and the CTD fixes. I have no doubt that in all this time there will be numerous other fixes included though - to the extent I don't know.

But there hasn't been a patch to date that didn't fix at least a few things in the cockpits, in the FMB, etc..

Really looking forward to be able to get a group of 20 human piloted bombers up in a nice formation and not worry about going to desktop. If we get that, I can wait a while longer for the other tunable problems.

Nice pictures btw - It seems like AA was working in a couple of them?

Agree 100%, what is the point adding a bunch of silly features if the game can't actually be played for more than 45 mins at a time without crashing?

Hi piotras,

your membership level suggests that you haven't made many posts here (but that doesn't mean you haven't been following the Threads). However you need to understand that the dev team have been working on this for months and have explained why it is taking so long. They have, in fact, been re-building the game. "Fixing CloD" covers many aspects and they won't all get fixed at once.

btw what they showed us wasn't 'old IL-2' it was what is coming in BoM, the sequel to BoB, which should carry many 'core' upgrades that will improve CoD.

That's exactly what I said in my post LOL! First beta patch "only" graphics/performance improvements.:grin: Ok, alles klar!

machoo, 'graphics' and 'performance' are being used interchangeably: read framerate and stutters. Remember that the graphics will likely not be very different in the patch according to earlier comments and the goal is to increase graphics performance.

Well, it's like jimbop says:

According to what we've been told in previous updates the graphics improvements are aimed to increase performance, not change the visuals: the sim will not look different, it will just run faster.


On another note:




That's what i'm talking about. These are perfect posts for an update thread.

Thanks for cooperating with us gentlemen, keep it up ;)

+100000000

Thanks for the update, I think the pictures look great. I don't know why these threads have to turn so ugly, it is A SIM/GAME, granted, a very complex one, but I think people need to keep this in perspective. This game as it stands still surpasses any flight sim out there in my opinion. It has issues, will have issues, but just keep the faith. Go outside, enjoy upcoming spring, and the skirts getting shorter :razz:

Looks great

The iL2screen shots are clearly from the New development work for BoM and as stated work in progress.No where in the old iL2 series would you find grass ,ground ,tree and shadow textures as shown in the first screenshot:rolleyes:
Reading the Feb17th & Feb 24th updates its clearly indicated that a great deal of work is being done on other bugs and suggestions.ie FM as well as game performance.
It may be that the Performance Beta will be released first for testing to make sure that the game flow is fluid without crashes prior to the additional rectifications & fixes being added.I know nothing of how the code is done but it definately seems to be a sensible move as repairing any bugs in the new performance engine may effect the other work that the team have already done.
I hope the XFire & Sli problems will also have been resolved in the Beta patch too.Quite looking foreward to its release :)

Hi Klem,

I exactly know what I see, that is screen from sequel called BoM, but what do you think it is really fair talking about next project before they finish previous one?That's I mean "joke".I don't want to see screen or movie from BoM I just want to get finisched game, that'all.Maybe I expect too much,maybe I should to spent next 40euro or more and wait nex 7 years.That is redicules.

Thanks for the update.

Good to see the scale of the wheat/grass in screenshot one is fairly reasonable in scale. In COD it sometimes comes up through the wings of my aircraft when on the ground.


Cheers and thanks for the hard work. Can't wait top fly that IL-2!

Pics aren't working for me , all I get is a blank square with a red x in the corner

Very shortly, can't wait:grin: Thanks for the update BlackSix

my question:

when will we be able to see something like this:

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1332/spitf.jpg

i'm sure you're not planning a sequel without clouds really. :rolleyes:
so how's that coming along? thanks.

So...that was the update?

5 pictures of an IL2? Seriously?

YES! I would also like to know about the progress of the new clouds. Ever time I see those clouds when flying I think that someone opened a bottle of Aspirin. ;)

Also, I remember Luthier talking about Direct X 11 about a year ago. How is that coming along? I'm sure everyone would love to know if it's still on the table given the typical performance increase over DX10 and the possibility of DX11 features not available in the sim's current state.

This post/update is really pathetic, its been "wait until next week" for about 2 months now?

Come on! That IL-2 he just posted is going to fix everything! ;)

Hey is this Il-2 with mods? If so which ones.

Thanks.

it still angers me that they seem to be putting so many resources into the sequal, but they still haven't fixed the dud product the sold us almost a year ago.

IL-2 1946 certainly... i used it with the AAA unified installer and a range of other mods, but from the image you can see:

sky textures: Bender Sky V3 - Original
clouds: flushys cloudmod v2; Bender's Ultimate Environment (they look terrific)
ground textures: Flushys Bumpification Mod Beta 1; probably some custom campaign map
propeller: Propeller Mod V2.0
skin: can't recall, huge amount to chose from

my complete install tree was according to my kept record:

BASIC
il2_1946_408m
AAA
patch
language & ranks fix
conf.ini (edited for maxed settings)
CAMPAIGNS
Biggin Hill
BOBHurricaneSeason
UTWR
SINGLE MODS
2ch_Firev2
Flushys_Bumpification_Mod
Flushy's cloud mod v2
Eng Sound Mod (SFX_9.3)
IL2_6DOF_Mod_v07_MOUSE
CERT_AI
C47 With Cockpit
Battle Sounds Mod v2 [groud attack]
vp_treetextures3
Bender Sky V3 - Original
V2 Guncam New Fire 3D Ultimate Smokes
3rdeye_Weapon_Effects
Spitfire MKI & open canopy
Yak-7_9 Cockpits Mangas
Propeller-Mod-V2.0


this is the advantage of being a methodical hard drive organizer: answer's from the past are always few seconds away. :cool:

ah well... good old IL-2 times :grin: i abandoned it 4 years before CLoD, believing the then called Storm of War: Battle of Britain (as it should have been afaik) would come much sooner. well i am a better pilot now, and still rather average, but improving along the way. never really looked back on 1946, but some fun i had on 'skies of fire/valour', 'zeke vs wildcat', 'spit vs 109'...

please don't shred this for off topic :-|

and rebuilding the gfx engine is what will give the 50% improvement in frame rates, the sequence of events shows the logic

You seem quite optimistic about peoples ability to analise and understand information. We`ve been getting frequent updates for few months now and substantial info. However, still a lot of people seem to think that with the beginning of BoM works the got CloD abandoned. Also, they strangely think that upon the BoM release day, the original Battle of Britain related content will dissapear from their hard drives.

You are quite likely right about that, but with the impending graphics and sound changes, I will just remain patient and hope that with the length of time the patch has taken that they nail it this time, I guess they realise that they have to get it pretty well right this time, good luck to them, will be great if all the improvements come off.

Try to open in a new window. Works for me.

They take as long to open as it does to get the patch released.

The most important part to the update was this sentence.

"We’re not working on an externally set schedule, so we can sit down and do things right rather than rushing them out to meet a deadline."

This suggests that the bean counters are now happy and aren't going to force anymore unfinished work out the door, like they did with the initial release. At least for the moment.

Keep the faith, most of us here understand the process.

S!

Question. The patch is supposed to fix the graphics engine and it's biggest bugs like poor performance, no proper CrossFire/SLI support etc. Now as it seems devs have nailed a lot of bugs and brings up my question: Have they worked in collaboration with AMD/nVidia for proper drivers/profiles/whatever to give us the best experience? Luthier did mention in a post not so long time ago that they are in contact with both brands locally. Would be nice to know :)

The patch will be the same graphics engine as BOM, so it will be DX11, theres no way that Luthier would spend all this time on the patch for it to be in DX10. Like Luthier said just after release DX11 was thier first and major priority, this is why its taken so long.

I dont know about AMD, but Luthier stated many months ago that SLI was fixed and a profile would be included in the next Nvidia driver. There have been many driver releases since but no profile as been found to date.

lol believe it when i see it, there have been no major steps forward in a year and now all of a sudden you think DX11 will be in the beta/RC?
Its probably taken this long because there was alot of problems and not enough staff to do it any quicker. I'm will to bet on that.

Yeah I really believe it will be, It was Luthier first priority, BOM will certainly be DX11 and if the new graphics engine is the same they are using in BOM then it makes perfect sense, and would also explain the huge perforamnce increase. I'm sure either Luthier or Oleg stated that they were almost ready with DX11 over a year ago it just wasn't able to make the initial release.

Ok. Think again.

Yeah i do remember that it was one of my biggest dissapointments on release, the first fully DX11 flight sim. i hope your right but i cant see it with the patch. Maybe with BoM yeah i agree there very, even highly probable.

Really happy about the grass finally being fixed to scale

I just hope they add some diversity to the trees. You'll never see a whole forest the same shade of orange during the fall. There needs to be brown, yellow, red and maybe a bit of green mixed in, along with various amounts of foliage still attached to the trees.

Also, will we be getting a fall map of england + france? There are season tags already present. I can't imagine it'd be too hard to offer the new trees + grass on the old map.

Eh, the biggest issue is they still support dx9. I realize that this is kinda needed given the large eastern European market for the sim, but having to support dx9 and dx10 - when each has a different rendering pipeline - has to be a nightmare.

And I think it must be one of the reasons its taking so long with the patch.


So, you'd rather have a team of 3d modelers and texture artists trying to work out programming bugs?

I thought it had been explained that the DX11 API is backwards compatible for DX 10 and 9 and is a simple matter of some features being used and others not on your pc.

I'm glad to see the sim progressing with work being done on Battle of Moscow as it will give us a great product in the future: a future I am extremely excited for.

The only concern and issue I have is how long it is taking for them to get the launcher crash issue fixed and released in some form. This is pretty much the number one complaint about this sim: it is just so unstable. I've lost count fo the amount of times I;ve gotten into the combat zone and positioned myself to engage and then getting the launcher crash.
I could even cope with new bugs providing the game was stable and didn't crash after an hour or so online.

Anyhow, looking forward to future updates. Cheers for these updates BlackSix, even though they are not the launcher fix they do show that the team are taking the future of the sim seriously.
V

I've noticed it too. From our narrow perspective we see only the technical side, but in a project the challenges are also financial, not to mention the hundreds of soft issues of a 30 persons team. Ilya here confirms again that the future of this project is not in danger. Let's look at all of the good news: new gfx engine very close to beta, correction of AI, FM and DM in a near future, new theater with new planes and objects in the medium term, ground combat mode integrated with the air combat in the long term. Not a bad pipeline for the neglected CFS gender. And as we saw already they are not schedule driven, which is good for quality. Optimism is the key word, my friends. And encouragement to the devs, to keep the motivation high.

Cheers,
Ins

Mistakes happen.
The heritage of the old bad code was worse that they expected, and probably the decision to redo everything from scratch was not easily accepted, leading to months of wasted efforts to fix the unfixable. Let's see the next couple of patches, and then we can judge the new team's work. If everything goes as planned they will redeem 1 year of troubles.

That's why I find that constantly hanging them to their own words becomes futile after a while. We cannot drive looking only in the rear-view mirror ...

Future is bright! Be optimistic! :-).

Tree, did you change allegiance? Where'd you get this optimism from?

Thanks for the patch news.

Read his posts again and you'll see he's shooting the team to pieces with kind words using their own statements, very impressive in my point of view :)

Having fun here.

Doesn't make too much sense to include a profile for an engine which you know is bugged and has to be redone anyway, wouldn't you agree?
;)


Same goes for SLI compatibility.

I know he is ;)

A master at reverse psychology and subliminal messaging:-P

Yes I do agree, thats why its a little strange that luthier said this.

All this is very nice but wat is the point and has this something todo with COD? With the next game 1941 yes but with COD no thus no update for COD?

+1

Yeah i didnt word my sentence very well, i ment i was dissapointed the game didnt have DX10/11 support.

I don't miss DX11 cause looking at benchmarks of games with DX11 i see about 50% less fps then with DX10

Sound pack!
 

To the Dev. team:
While there is:
1. /Will be/ Flying real Il-2 in 2012 in Russia;
2. Flying real MiG-3 in 2012 in Russia;
3. Flying real l-15 in 2012 in Spain;
4. Flying real l-16 in 2012 in Russia;

So record the real "pre-flight" and "in-flight" SOUNDS from these aircrafts, and implement them in Battle of Moscow!
And ONE VERY important thing! Give BASS to the engine sounds, and POWERFUL BASS to the aircraft mashine-guns!

Regards!

You are aware that both the Il-2 and the MiG-3 use an Allison as opposed to the AM-38 and AM-35 they had in the 1940s? ;)

The Team who builded mig-3 and il-2 engaged in the restoration of AM-38 engine for second mig-3 now/

But weren't those AM-35 and AM-38 build on the same patents sold by BMW in about 1935 to Allison and others?
The Allison V1701 is still recognizable a BMW engine to the People who know them.

According to Bill Gunston's "Development of Piston Aero Engines" indeed, Mikulin engines series had origins in licenced BMW VI (although the history of this cooperation dates back to late '20s). The book doesn't say when and how V-1710 was born, but I'd say it also was late '20s / early '30s design, after all it powered Acron and Macon airships didn't it? Was it also based on BMW VI however? I don't know.

Cheers.

I have to go with the Tree man here!
do we really give a sh** about the sequel when the game we paid for all that time ago still runs like a beta?
Fix the AI
Fix the sound
Fix the map
Fix the Launcher
Fix the FPS
Fix the Weather
Fix the scripts
Fix the FMB
Add some useful ships
Fix the balancing of Axis to Allied Bombers
Fix the Navigation

These issues need to be addressed, or take the game off steam and release the Full SDK to the community and let them sort it out!

I know it because one of the meier brothers (www.meiermotors.com) told that when they were calibrating the valves on a allison v1710 his old trainer came by to visit, looked over his shoulder and said :Ahh, a BMW. when meier answered : No, its a Allison, and his old trainer reparted: you can tell me a lot, but this is for shure a BMW.
As a matter of fact, when working on the Yak-7 and Yak-3 the original engine mountings from the AM engines could be used without any alterations to mount the Allison engine.
In the early 30's BMW had this airship engine ready, but it was decided at higher state offices that BMW should build radials instead inline engines.
So BMW sold the patents to Allison, who had urgently needed money and no engine, and bought the patents for the Wright R-2600 radial, which developed on the german side to the BMW 801 and on the russian side to the Ash-82.
So as one can see, the war of states is very different of the war of companies.

Weren't the Klimovs? copies of hispano suizas?

That usually because they are pushing all the new DX11 features that DX10 doesn't have. Thus the card has to do more work, and you get less FPS.

Most games that are run in DX11 instead of 10 show an increase in FPS because DX11 is more streamlines or optimized than DX10. Naturally that's only true as long as you don't start enabling a bunch of DX11 features.

To sum it up, DX11 is better than DX10.

Will See
 

Proof is in the pudding...So if the pudding has a viable recipe.. we might finally..have a flyable Sim! :cool:

+1 ,here's hoping the patch is heading towards this.

I think you must not understand that all of the fixes that everyone wants will apply to both the CoD AND the sequel, BoM or whatever it will be called.

The game engine will be the same for both.

When they redo the graphics engine.
When they fix the AI.
Add weather effects.
Map.
Etc.

These changes will apply to both Cliffs of Dover and Battle of Moscow.

The developers know that for any sequel to be successful, these things must be fixed or improved, and these fixes and improvements will apply to both games.

True.
The only problem is that these things are still to be solved, almost a year since the release of the first title.
I think a little bit of impatience is understandable, especially when you consider that the singleplayer still presents several problems.

I'm confident and patient.

Greetings!

(sorry for my english...)

they are priority in the life :
firts make a yellow tree and 2 more week after perhaps they'll fix cod...

i dream if the dev make yellow tree, that significate all the fix were done...

but i'm realistic contrary to luthier...

true.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/sex...e2_3281768.jpg



only the devs are right



BTW thanks for the update also!

I play this sim about once a month. When ever I play the sim I have to play a quick mission because if I don't do that first and then go into the FMB whenever I launch a mission created or originated there I always get a CTD. It's weird but that's the way around getting booted out of the game. Remember that weird thing with Il-2 where after launching you had to collapse it to desktop and then bring it back up...we put up with a lot with this stuff because in the end it delivers, but it's not smooth sailing, but these are rough seas at the moment. I take it the update'll be Thursday instead of Friday?

Try that.

Or simply go to the first update post (BlackSix's post), click on his name in at the top of his post and select "View all posts by BlackSix"

Clean-up finished, thread reopened.

Let me just point out everyone's attention to the fact that infractions and warnings are issued on a per-post basis: for example, if someone has 5 rule-breaking posts during the course of the thread, it means 5 separate infractions or warnings.

Warnings don't net points and are just that, warnings. Infractions are what get points and trigger the automatic banning system.

The off-topic infraction has a lower point value and a longer expire time so that people won't get accidentally banned but simply be encourage to stay on topic in threads like these, it really takes effort to get banned for off-topic posting.

To those that cooperate with us, thank you. To the rest, please try more and don't get sucked into unrelated arguments. If someone attacks or offends you, please report their posts and we'll deal with it. Thank you.

I'm really eager to know the content of the patch, and the trade offs - if any - of the new gfx engine. I imagine that the new some content will be distributed along several patches, to reduce the mistakes. I only hope that the revised FM will make it to the next patch, as it is the second problem in my personal list, after the online CTD's. Next comes the FMB manual and the SDK for objects and maps.

As far as the ground units - I start to see a huge potential for the online wars, allowing more coordinated and realistic ground operations.

Cheers!

hey ! I want to see the update information not the system of warning attribution, you should write to an another topic and point it ( except if you write this for all the topic ) thx.

If i would the warning information, i should find them in "Friday Update, March 2, 2012 " topic ?!?

Heyyyy.....Sure I agree and would like to encourage the Devs..... I enjoy flying CLOD for the 25-30 mins it runs before CTD... I like the product...and just like the rest I just want it to work.

We just need to be calibrated on the devs concept of time and how they measure it.

So ......... Very Close = Months, Near Future = at least a year, Medium Term = Year plus, Long Term = many of us will be pushing up daisies :cool:

Anticipating the next "Friday" Update

Fair. But expectations from our side were always biased by the strong desire, and on the 1C side by their humongous optimism, well known to every project manager of this world ... :-D

To be fair Blackdog, there really hasn't been a whole lot of info to discuss in regards to updates. A vague paragraph with some pics from a different sim than COD.

Example: "You will see the beta graphics patch very shortly. I know you’ve been waiting for it forever. We’re working on it non-stop, and what can I say, it can only be ready when it’s ready. We’re not working on an externally set schedule, so we can sit down and do things right rather than rushing them out to meet a deadline.
I want to apologize to everybody for it taking so long. But I’d rather apologize for this than for releasing things quickly and for it to be of inferior quality."

How can we really have an in depth and meaningful discussion on that info?

What's wrong with that if that is all there is to report? We've all witnessed the mouths that bite the hands that feed the members here. "What? The meat wasn't tender enough? Portions too small? Sorry, that's all there is." CHOMP!

Which is why they have been putting out updates regarding the future project. Instead of looking at it from the perspective that this means the game will continue to be developed like our long time original IL2, some look at it as if they are being hood winked; thus acting all bent out of shape.

Some complain in a manner that's fitting of adults. Others complain like they were never taught how not to behave in a check out stand at the supermarket when they were 2.

That's why we're at where we are now. Sad state of IL2 affairs all around. Hobbyists aren't happy. Developers frustrated. Ultimately and possibly this could have long reaching effects for our hobby.

Good post well put. Managing customer expectations is a finer art (I've only been doing it for 22 years and I'm still learning).

Whoa there Robert....take it easy. I didn't complain about the lack of info, just pointing out that discussions about patch updates stray off topic because there is very little to talk about. I guess your post illustrates Blackdog's point that easily agitated youngsters turn threads into a flamefest.