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-   IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=189)
-   -   Friday Update, Q&A - December 23, 2011 (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=28633)

Skiiwa 12-23-2011 04:27 PM

Really hate that the complainers got to them. As Ive said, I will continue to buy this series. Cant wait till I get my 109-g10 and my p-38! (Yes I realize the end of the world will be here before I get those planes. One must have dreams!)

IamNotDavid 12-23-2011 04:28 PM

I love this thread. It appears to be a competition to see who can put the most negative spin possible on the latest update from people who are constantly complaining about the lack of updates.

Pudfark 12-23-2011 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid (Post 372604)
I love this thread. It appears to be a competition to see who can put the most negative spin possible on the latest update from people who are constantly complaining about the lack of updates.

Not really an update to me...more of a dynamic "stall"..imho...;)

IamNotDavid 12-23-2011 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudfark (Post 372605)
Not really an update to me...more of a dynamic "stall"..imho...;)

I know. Your response is one of my favorites.

41Sqn_Banks 12-23-2011 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katdogfizzow (Post 372572)
Perhaps there are scripts and workarounds that fix the gametype. I'm not sure. It seems like an easy fix?

Workaround/Script for co-op: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28559

AnttiK 12-23-2011 04:52 PM

I'm at loss... So to get currently very much incomplete product completed we have to buy the sequel? I'm not talking about which planes and which maps we get, I'm talking about broken features. I thought we'd get the game patched to a standard gold level as per usual for the price we paid for? Did I miss something?

Insuber 12-23-2011 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro (Post 372596)

Insuber, I don't understand where you, and others, have gotten the impression that there will not be any patches to CloD until the sequel, where did you read that? You must have a better monitor on your PC than I do because I cannot see these hidden words you have apparently seen. The last thing Black Six said is that the patch may have a beta before the end of the year, the release patch will not likely be before the end of the year, and that info was from this frickin week. Relax folks, and learn reading comprehension, if someone says possible beta before December 31st. but not the final patch, that DOES NOT mean there will never ever be a patch as long as we all shall live, I have never seen a blacker bunch of pessimists and doom-sayers in all my days, how you have managed to make it through another day without hanging yourselves in a closet I'll never know....:roll:

Thank you for singleing me out as pessimist, which I'm not; not really a nice thing. Re-read better my previous posts Urufu and apologize, ideally falling on your knees and spreading ashes on your head :D.
And actually it's only that I am the ghost writer of Tree_UK ... :D.

BigC208 12-23-2011 05:09 PM

It's all good. The game will be patched up to where it's playable for everyone, not just those with top of the line computers. Those that don't want BoM can leave it on the store shelves and still enjoy CloD.

Luthier is praising himself for still working on the game after 7 months. I see that a bit different. As far as I'm concerned we're still in the 7th month of a paid for Beta. I'll regard it the release version when the next patch delivers on the performance increases and bug fix promises. I don't expect a multimillion dollar sim experience for $50. What I do expect is a finished product at some point. If Clod is not playable for all (min box spec) before BoM is released I'll wait with buying untill the reviews are out.

For me personally the sim in it's current state is enjoyable. Even with the messed up comms, the now and then crashes, the gui that sucks, the trees I can fly thru without collision, etc etc. When I get ticked off with some of the things I miss I'll just go play RoF or DCS for a bit. I keep coming back to CloD because there is simply no other WWII combat sim out there that's as immersive and detailed as CloD. When (not if) Luthier's team fixes what needs to be fixed this series will keep us entertained for the next 10 years.

slm 12-23-2011 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 372579)
We are trying to pull off a very difficult balancing act with developing a new game and supporting an old one at the same time. Pretty much no one does that. Most large developers simply release games, support them for a month at the most, and then switch to new paid content regardless of the state of the game. We are however trying not only to patch up major issues, we're working on improving things that generally work - and we're doing that for free seven months after release. We are doing that by trying to parallel tasks as much as possible and improving CoD while developing a sequel.

That is however simply not possible with some features. In some cases that's a question of limited resources. We cannot make a new flyable for CoD because that means one less flyable for the sequel. With other tasks it's simply a matter of time

One way of saving resources might be just dropping support of 32-bit operating systems. When I was using CoD in WinXP I had quite a few serious problems, like the game freezing in multiplayer. Most of those seem to be gone now. Probably because 64-bit Windows7 allows using more memory.

LoBiSoMeM 12-23-2011 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnttiK (Post 372610)
I'm at loss... So to get currently very much incomplete product completed we have to buy the sequel? I'm not talking about which planes and which maps we get, I'm talking about broken features. I thought we'd get the game patched to a standard gold level as per usual for the price we paid for? Did I miss something?

Really... with RoF we need to buy planes...

In DCS we need to pay for compatibility patches...

You guys need to calm down and look to the good side: we'll have more scenarios and planesets in any nem sequel, and we will upgrade the game engine with all previous scenarios and planesets with merged install, just like any IL-2 title...

What's so bad about that? I always liked IL-2 bussiness style.

:confused:

IceFire 12-23-2011 05:17 PM

Thanks for the update!

Good to know how things are progressing. I've been hesitant to pick up the game so far but in the new year I fully intend to. It sounds like things are coming together for both Cliffs of Dover and the sequel. IL-2 was a bit of a troubled release too and Forgotten Battles really hammered things in to a great simulation as have all of the additions since then. If Battle of Moscow rights things and keeps us rolling along with the great content already in Cliffs plus enhancements then I think we're going to be in great shape!

In a few years we'll be back to the point where one online server can serve multiple scenarios and theaters... and consequently and all sorts of fun! That's what I'm looking forward to.

addman 12-23-2011 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slm (Post 372621)
One way of saving resources might be just dropping support of 32-bit operating systems. When I was using CoD in WinXP I had quite a few serious problems, like the game freezing in multiplayer. Most of those seem to be gone now. Probably because 64-bit Windows7 allows using more memory.

The game exe is still only 32-bit. It has more to do with Windows XP and/or Directx 9. Anywho, the new graphics engine will probably work better on both platforms.

Urufu_Shinjiro 12-23-2011 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theOden (Post 372599)
There's no reading between the lines in this block:



You will never ever be the serious sim-producer Bohemia Interactive is, obviously.
Saddening bad news in the first post. Really sad.
Good to know though so I guess I should say "Thank you" but there is no smile saying it.

I have no idea what you're talking about, that line was one of the best pieces of news yet. Why spent time and effort releasing patches for CloD when you have just released a game that MERGES with the CloD and you can update the whole thing at once? Hell, Il2 got to where it is based on that model, fanbase wouldn't be nearly as large if we weren't all playing FB+AEP+PF+PE2+SOM+1946 (which is what the 1946 dvd really is, all of those games and expansions combined into one), this is what the future will be for CloD and the Moscow game.

Baron 12-23-2011 05:27 PM

Some of you people really are a piece of work.

We are where we are, deal with it like mature adults.

Insuber 12-23-2011 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha
The Q & A make no sense to me........it reads like a suicide note.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Insuber (Post 372571)
I'm not that negative Alpha. I don't see more bad news than before, rather some good news about FM, GUI and mergeability of BoM and CoD. The only worrying issue is the patch for CoD, which imo is not in sight yet.

Ahemmmmmm! Even a mod interpreted the answers as bad news ... don't you all geniuses think that there's a communication issue?

csThor 12-23-2011 05:39 PM

On a serious note, Ilya ...
 
Hello Ilya!

You have known about me for a few years now and you know the pedantry I can descend into when it comes to certain facts. ;) But despite my very own pet issues I do try to keep a look at the "larger picture" and it is indeed rather dark ATM - and that's saying something. I'm usually no pessimist and I am not a hater, but recently things have taken a turn that does make me doubt the validity of some business decisions and company policies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 372579)
I answered specific questions and didn't touch on the larger effort. It remains the same. Sped up graphics, launcher errors, improved FM, etc, all of that is in progress as previously stated.

But ... You had to know a but was coming, we all have heard it from miles and miles away. ;) ... many of these fixes are tied in to "larger changes". Your own words. In the same statement you were talking about "features". Problem is - how are people supposed to discern what is a change and what is a feature (postponed to the sequel) when any kind of information is either cryptically short or a state secret? You know I did send you the Luftwaffe unit fixes first time last April. I even tried five or six different ways of getting them to you. Reaction? Nada, niente, none, zilch. That, too, is one of the things I don't understand ... the total silence. Both to people who did produce stuff for CloD or who were willing to help and to the community as a whole. Communication disaster is the phrase I've heard a few times already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 372579)
We are trying to pull off a very difficult balancing act with developing a new game and supporting an old one at the same time. Pretty much no one does that. Most large developers simply release games, support them for a month at the most, and then switch to new paid content regardless of the state of the game. We are however trying not only to patch up major issues, we're working on improving things that generally work - and we're doing that for free seven months after release. We are doing that by trying to parallel tasks as much as possible and improving CoD while developing a sequel.

That is however simply not possible with some features. In some cases that's a question of limited resources. We cannot make a new flyable for CoD because that means one less flyable for the sequel. With other tasks it's simply a matter of time. Some of the changes we're making are so sweeping, they're scheduled to be completed very close to the sequel's ship date. The animation for example is such a huge task with so many facets that we can't just take it, turn it into a half a gig patch, and release it for CoD a month before the release of the sequel.

And here we seem to disagree on a very fundamental level, Ilya. I do not know the business realities of Maddox Games nor do I wish to know, but in my book CloD is at the moment nothing more than an unfinished game engine which is about to be rewritten. It's not a full game, the offline part is too minimal and too incomplete to provide much offline entertainment and the online part is bugged with the crashes, the FMB is still "touchy" in a few areas (i.e. the weather controls) and even the Channel map has a few annoying bugs (i.e. the holes in the landscape). Right now CloD is - in my opinion - not more than an early Alpha. It runs but the content (apart from the aircraft) is not really there, yet.
So this is my impression of the state of things when you posted that certain "features" will be postponed until the sequel. Even for me, and I am not short of a €, this does a lot to increase the WTF? state of mind I'm finding myself in WRT CloD. Are you seriously expecting the customers just to shrug and swallow that they'll have to pay yet another full game price just to get features which were promised for Clod (some features which I personally regard as vital for any game like a decent campaign mode)? Are you really expecting us to shrug off the total omission of the Royal Navy?

My point is that switching full-throttle to the production of the sequel, given the way things are ATM, is indeed quite a slap into the face of customers who have bought the product in good faith, customers who were looking for a good representation of the Battle of Britain with all its phases.

slm 12-23-2011 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addman (Post 372625)
The game exe is still only 32-bit. It has more to do with Windows XP and/or Directx 9. Anywho, the new graphics engine will probably work better on both platforms.

Whatever the reason is, I just don't see these serious problems anymore in Windows7. If the development team is currently using lots of effort to support many operating systems and versions of DirectX, maybe they could consider increasing game's minimum requirements in order to speed up development - for BattleOfMoscow? CoD was supposed to work in WinXP, but I'm not so sure if this will ever really happen.

satchenko 12-23-2011 05:41 PM

http://www.imagengratis.org/images/clod.gif

jg27_mc 12-23-2011 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 372579)
...and we're doing that for free seven months after release.l.

The software was a complete mess at release (at a certain point it still is...): I have paid almost 50€ for a download, as a customer I wasn't expecting anything different... Well actually I was, never in my dreams I have thought CloD was going to be launched in such a state. After 7 months I have launcher crashes all the time, planes flying with no wings/tails, lack of AA and really poor performance/optimization specially for us, ATI users. :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 372579)
That is however simply not possible with some features. In some cases that's a question of limited resources. We cannot make a new flyable for CoD because that means one less flyable for the sequel.

I can understand that... But looking at the recent past since CloD launch, only a prequel (paid of course) like the Battle of France would have made me understand MG way of running things... If we are talking of a ETO sequel, there's no logic whatsoever! (except financial... maybe). :rolleyes:

SYN_Repent 12-23-2011 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csThor (Post 372633)
Hello Ilya!

You have known about me for a few years now and you know the pedantry I can descend into when it comes to certain facts. ;) But despite my very own pet issues I do try to keep a look at the "larger picture" and it is indeed rather dark ATM - and that's saying something. I'm usually no pessimist and I am not a hater, but recently things have taken a turn that does make me doubt the validity of some business decisions and company policies.



But ... You had to know a but was coming, we all have heard it from miles and miles away. ;) ... many of these fixes are tied in to "larger changes". Your own words. In the same statement you were talking about "features". Problem is - how are people supposed to discern what is a change and what is a feature (postponed to the sequel) when any kind of information is either cryptically short or a state secret? You know I did send you the Luftwaffe unit fixes first time last April. I even tried five or six different ways of getting them to you. Reaction? Nada, niente, none, zilch. That, too, is one of the things I don't understand ... the total silence. Both to people who did produce stuff for CloD or who were willing to help and to the community as a whole. Communication disaster is the phrase I've heard a few times already.



And here we seem to disagree on a very fundamental level, Ilya. I do not know the business realities of Maddox Games nor do I wish to know, but in my book CloD is at the moment nothing more than an unfinished game engine which is about to be rewritten. It's not a full game, the offline part is too minimal and too incomplete to provide much offline entertainment and the online part is bugged with the crashes, the FMB is still "touchy" in a few areas (i.e. the weather controls) and even the Channel map has a few annoying bugs (i.e. the holes in the landscape). Right now CloD is - in my opinion - not more than an early Alpha. It runs but the content (apart from the aircraft) is not really there, yet.
So this is my impression of the state of things when you posted that certain "features" will be postponed until the sequel. Even for me, and I am not short of a €, this does a lot to increase the WTF? state of mind I'm finding myself in WRT CloD. Are you seriously expecting the customers just to shrug and swallow that they'll have to pay yet another full game price just to get features which were promised for Clod (some features which I personally regard as vital for any game like a decent campaign mode)? Are you really expecting us to shrug off the total omission of the Royal Navy?

My point is that switching full-throttle to the production of the sequel, given the way things are ATM, is indeed quite a slap into the face of customers who have bought the product in good faith, customers who were looking for a good representation of the Battle of Britain with all its phases.

best post on these forums for ages

carguy_ 12-23-2011 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG53Harti (Post 372503)
It seems, you never played a good online war like IOW/VOW.....
All would have been impossible without a well functioning coop mode
What we have now is, let me think about it.... nothing...
Only a big online gangbang

You are spot on, Harti. I have been waiting since premiere day for co-op mode and it is end of 2011 and all I can do is fly skirmish offline or airquake online. That is bad.

The progression of online war system in IL2 proved that the sim could be so much more than just server based fights. It was played like a game of chess by the red vs blue leaders on the online war site, then the pilots would take the chosen resources and put them where ordered. Whole historical campaigns rewritten : Moscow conquered, Smolensk conquered, Caen defended. Everything was there : shortage of resources, logistic worries, Reds ramming Heinkels just to stop them from bombing red tanks. Whole tank battles assisted by IL2/Ju87 assisted by fighters on multiple altitudes. It is just too much to wrote about. And on top of it all, every pilot could feel how it is to fly a loooong sortie, go back home to rtb, land safely and talk about the mission with teammates. It was this accomplishment of surviving a war flight sortie.

You simply can`t substitude this with deathmatch servers.

Oh and PS.
Regardless how airquake players read it : there is a whole crowd of squads waiting for CloD to get online war - ready. You can`t ignore those folks.

Steuben 12-23-2011 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carguy_ (Post 372638)
You are spot on, Harti. I have been waiting since premiere day for co-op mode and it is end of 2011 and all I can do is fly skirmish offline or airquake online. That is bad.

The progression of online war system in IL2 proved that the sim could be so much more than just server based fights. It was played like a game of chess by the red vs blue leaders on the online war site, then the pilots would take the chosen resources and put them where ordered. Whole historical campaigns rewritten : Moscow conquered, Smolensk conquered, Caen defended. Everything was there : shortage of resources, logistic worries, Reds ramming Heinkels just to stop them from bombing red tanks. Whole tank battles assisted by IL2/Ju87 assisted by fighters on multiple altitudes. It is just too much to wrote about. And on top of it all, every pilot could feel how it is to fly a loooong sortie, go back home to rtb, land safely and talk about the mission with teammates. It was this accomplishment of surviving a war flight sortie.

You simply can`t substitude this with deathmatch servers.

Oh and PS.
Regardless how airquake players read it : there is a whole crowd of squads waiting for CloD to get online war - ready. You can`t ignore those folks.


Absolutly agree! Without COOP Modus (maybe implemented in the current system) like in Il2 CLOD is dead for me!

Even if they can fix the many bugs and a new graphic engine! Without proper online COOP modus this game will not work for many squads!

smink1701 12-23-2011 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha (Post 372568)
The Q & A make no sense to me........it reads like a suicide note.

:confused:

It is what it is...we all hope and wish for more but the history of CLoD and current situation point to the fact that this baby was prematurely delivered, has severe defects and is unloved. While the potential was huge and Oleg's vision for the game monumental, it is the Chernobyl of combat flight sims. Maybe someone like 777 will come along and rescue this baby. On a positive note, it has made me rediscover Rise of Flight.

Merry Christmas.

HR_Naglfar 12-23-2011 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carguy_ (Post 372638)
You are spot on, Harti. I have been waiting since premiere day for co-op mode and it is end of 2011 and all I can do is fly skirmish offline or airquake online. That is bad.

The progression of online war system in IL2 proved that the sim could be so much more than just server based fights. It was played like a game of chess by the red vs blue leaders on the online war site, then the pilots would take the chosen resources and put them where ordered. Whole historical campaigns rewritten : Moscow conquered, Smolensk conquered, Caen defended. Everything was there : shortage of resources, logistic worries, Reds ramming Heinkels just to stop them from bombing red tanks. Whole tank battles assisted by IL2/Ju87 assisted by fighters on multiple altitudes. It is just too much to wrote about. And on top of it all, every pilot could feel how it is to fly a loooong sortie, go back home to rtb, land safely and talk about the mission with teammates. It was this accomplishment of surviving a war flight sortie.

You simply can`t substitude this with deathmatch servers.

Oh and PS.
Regardless how airquake players read it : there is a whole crowd of squads waiting for CloD to get online war - ready. You can`t ignore those folks.

Seems like my message got lost among all the pesimistic stuff, so I'll say it again.

There's no need of old coop GUI to make online wars right now. All the process of generate the mission, fly it, and report the log is obsolete and not needed. With scripts you can make whatever you want (an online war with real time air and ground movements, ordered in a web broswer map, for example).

There are a lot of possibilities to make online wars way better than all that we had with IL-2. But of course someone have to make it.

If there's a problem that makes impossible to fly online wars right now is the ram leak problem, not the lack of a not needed GUI.


PS: Anyway, I think that right now it's also perfectly possible to make old style online wars. The mission file structure is similar to IL-2, so there's no problem to generate a mission, and you can have a log of all the mission events.

Chivas 12-23-2011 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carguy_ (Post 372638)
You are spot on, Harti. I have been waiting since premiere day for co-op mode and it is end of 2011 and all I can do is fly skirmish offline or airquake online. That is bad.

The progression of online war system in IL2 proved that the sim could be so much more than just server based fights. It was played like a game of chess by the red vs blue leaders on the online war site, then the pilots would take the chosen resources and put them where ordered. Whole historical campaigns rewritten : Moscow conquered, Smolensk conquered, Caen defended. Everything was there : shortage of resources, logistic worries, Reds ramming Heinkels just to stop them from bombing red tanks. Whole tank battles assisted by IL2/Ju87 assisted by fighters on multiple altitudes. It is just too much to wrote about. And on top of it all, every pilot could feel how it is to fly a loooong sortie, go back home to rtb, land safely and talk about the mission with teammates. It was this accomplishment of surviving a war flight sortie.

You simply can`t substitude this with deathmatch servers.

Oh and PS.
Regardless how airquake players read it : there is a whole crowd of squads waiting for CloD to get online war - ready. You can`t ignore those folks.

Your totally wrong, players have been flying, missions on the IL-2 Warclouds server for years that are mission based, and not airquake. Yes at times there will be people who join the server that arn't interested in the mission, but that can happen on Co-op servers aswell. The best part is you can join the mission 24/7 with no waiting, and you don't have to worry about someone running you over at the start of the mission and having to wait hours for the next mission to start.

The ATAG server in COD is mission based, and there are people flying bombers with full human crews, on long bombing missions. The tools are there like AI use and will only get better as the bugs and features are improved and more players join the servers.

Mysticpuma 12-23-2011 06:32 PM

Firstly let me quote the following replies:

Orville:

"So people who could care less about the Battle for Moscow have to pay yet more in order to see features that were misleadingly continually mooted as being in development for CoD, pre release (though cleverly not 'technically' promised I suppose for the pedagogue Sophist's around) . No matter what anybody says, that is the truth. Kept that one quiet pre-CoD release, eh? Fantastic. No more ships or planes either for CoD (AKA 'Slight skirmish over Peckham'). Happy times. I might even be daft enough to buy the sequel.....but you can guarantee others won't. In any event, certainly won't be pre ordering this time. Fool me once.......

Shocking, really."

jg27_mc:

"It's a shame that the most important air battle of history (IMHO) has been reproduced on this simulation the way it is... I fell completely cheated! Damn this thing had a huge potential... "

csThor:

"The way I am reading things - and I admit that the following contains pure speculation on my part - I am beginning to believe that Maddox Games consider CloD a failed effort and not worth the hassle to fix it. Rewriting the engine (FM, sound, GUI ... anything left that'll not be changed?) tells me that the current engine is not salvagable. IMO the new management 1C got when it merged with Softklub last year is another factor in this (read: money grabbers).

If BoM is indeed all that Ilya wanted for CloD then that would be nice, but from my PoV - and I have been an ardent fan of the Il-2 series and I have done little bits and things for almost each version of the game, at least until Oleg departed - that product will have to be just as big a hit as the original Il-2 was. It needs to be thematically sound, needs to have all the relevant objects and aircraft, it will need a much less complicated and nerve-wracking GUI, it will need a campaign system that is worth the title ... In short it will need to contain everything that CloD is missing right now. That's a tall order, especially since Maddox Games was never particularly good at developing gameplay factors or not wasting effort on pointless objects/aircraft."

AnttiK:

"I'm at loss... So to get currently very much incomplete product completed we have to buy the sequel? I'm not talking about which planes and which maps we get, I'm talking about broken features. I thought we'd get the game patched to a standard gold level as per usual for the price we paid for? Did I miss something?"

BigC208:

"Luthier is praising himself for still working on the game after 7 months. I see that a bit different. As far as I'm concerned we're still in the 7th month of a paid for Beta. I'll regard it the release version when the next patch delivers on the performance increases and bug fix promises. I don't expect a multimillion dollar sim experience for $50. What I do expect is a finished product at some point. If Clod is not playable for all (min box spec) before BoM is released I'll wait with buying untill the reviews are out. "

csThor:

"And here we seem to disagree on a very fundamental level, Ilya. I do not know the business realities of Maddox Games nor do I wish to know, but in my book CloD is at the moment nothing more than an unfinished game engine which is about to be rewritten. It's not a full game, the offline part is too minimal and too incomplete to provide much offline entertainment and the online part is bugged with the crashes, the FMB is still "touchy" in a few areas (i.e. the weather controls) and even the Channel map has a few annoying bugs (i.e. the holes in the landscape). Right now CloD is - in my opinion - not more than an early Alpha. It runs but the content (apart from the aircraft) is not really there, yet.
So this is my impression of the state of things when you posted that certain "features" will be postponed until the sequel. Even for me, and I am not short of a €, this does a lot to increase the WTF? state of mind I'm finding myself in WRT CloD. Are you seriously expecting the customers just to shrug and swallow that they'll have to pay yet another full game price just to get features which were promised for Clod (some features which I personally regard as vital for any game like a decent campaign mode)? Are you really expecting us to shrug off the total omission of the Royal Navy?

My point is that switching full-throttle to the production of the sequel, given the way things are ATM, is indeed quite a slap into the face of customers who have bought the product in good faith, customers who were looking for a good representation of the Battle of Britain with all its phases."


I have to say I very much agree with everything above, all of it really hits the nail on the head!



Luthier:

""The graphics reload has finally reached a sufficiently stable alpha state. Public beta is within reach.""

"The ground modeling staff and myself have subsequently made the fully switch that department to the sequel."

Luthier:

"We are however trying not only to patch up major issues, we're working on improving things that generally work - and we're doing that for free seven months after release. We are doing that by trying to parallel tasks as much as possible and improving CoD while developing a sequel."

Just hang on here Luthier, the issue is this;

This game is not working properly. Please don't think we should be grateful that you are continuing to work on the game and make it work as it should have from the release date?!

Look at the last 7-months of development as punishment for releasing a piece of unfinished software to a clamouring public who were/are willing to forgive a lot, but not now.

I think it is disgraceful to say that you will fix all the issues and let people play CloD as they should have been able to on the release day...BUT ONLY IF YOU BUY THE SEQUEL!

You see you have to buy the sequel to have all the features that were promised in the software that was purchased 7-months-ago, because if you don't buy the sequel, well you can carry on playing your half-finished product, continue bleating about it...but don't worry, Luthier, you can tell us that all is well, because we can pay for a patch that fixes it and the patch will have a name called "Battle for Moscow"

So now, 1C can start a new trend where software companies can say they will release a game/sim and then when people have paid for it, these software companies can then say..."but if you want it to work without crashing, include the terrain fixes that should have been in the original, include weather effects that should have been in the original, include a campaign that should have been (working properly) in the original (although altered for Russia as BoB isn't important really!) and many other features.....wlell don't worry, you can now buy a patch to fix our faulty software as we no-longer provide fixes to make our software work correctly, for-free!"

I think it's pitiful that you now say if you want your software to work correctly, you'll have to pay for an update to fix it....but we'll call it a new add-on as saying it was a patch wouldn't look right ;)

I agree with others, 1C has disappointed many customers with this news and I will certainly be waiting for reports on the new update before even touching it with a Euro.

However don't worry, if BoM doesn't work correctly..we can pay for a patch to patch it!

MP

JG4_Helofly 12-23-2011 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carguy_ (Post 372638)
You are spot on, Harti. I have been waiting since premiere day for co-op mode and it is end of 2011 and all I can do is fly skirmish offline or airquake online. That is bad.

The progression of online war system in IL2 proved that the sim could be so much more than just server based fights. It was played like a game of chess by the red vs blue leaders on the online war site, then the pilots would take the chosen resources and put them where ordered. Whole historical campaigns rewritten : Moscow conquered, Smolensk conquered, Caen defended. Everything was there : shortage of resources, logistic worries, Reds ramming Heinkels just to stop them from bombing red tanks. Whole tank battles assisted by IL2/Ju87 assisted by fighters on multiple altitudes. It is just too much to wrote about. And on top of it all, every pilot could feel how it is to fly a loooong sortie, go back home to rtb, land safely and talk about the mission with teammates. It was this accomplishment of surviving a war flight sortie.

You simply can`t substitude this with deathmatch servers.

Oh and PS.
Regardless how airquake players read it : there is a whole crowd of squads waiting for CloD to get online war - ready. You can`t ignore those folks.

+1
The best time was on VOW with my squad.

DF server are fun, but it's nothing compared to a good coop mission.

RickRuski 12-23-2011 06:40 PM

Nothing in the replies from the team to get me excited, no information on progress or problems that have been solved ready for the next patch. To be truthful, sorry 3 out of 10 (and that would be generous) for keeping the community informed on real progress. Doesn't sound like we will see anything major until 2012 sometime.

Rick

15.Span_Valalo 12-23-2011 06:44 PM

Sorry guys but this is bla bla bla...

Steuben 12-23-2011 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chivas (Post 372648)
Your totally wrong, players have been flying, missions on the IL-2 Warclouds server for years that are mission based, and not airquake. Yes at times there will be people who join the server that arn't interested in the mission, but that can happen on Co-op servers aswell. The best part is you can join the mission 24/7 with no waiting, and you don't have to worry about someone running you over at the start of the mission and having to wait hours for the next mission to start.

The ATAG server in COD is mission based, and there are people flying bombers with full human crews, on long bombing missions. The tools are there like AI use and will only get better as the bugs and features are improved and more players join the servers.

Sorry but telling people they are totally wrong is ........(insert angry word here)! You obviously dont understand what the problem is! ATAG server is nice sometimes! But me in my squadmates want to fly together our handmade online campaign! We cant do that right now! Only maybe with some poor workarounds (which is not worth the trouble)! Handmade coop missions and campaigns were the best thing IL2 1946 had to offer! Period!

pupo162 12-23-2011 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steuben (Post 372658)
Sorry but telling people they are totally wrong is ........(insert angry word here)! You obviously dont understand what the problem is! ATAG server is nice sometimes! But me in my squadmates want to fly together our handmade online campaign! We cant do that right now! Only maybe with some poor workarounds (which is not worth the trouble)! Handmade coop missions and campaigns were the best thing IL2 1946 had to offer! Period!

agreed. AS it stands COD is a no hope for most of my squad activitis, and mine.... USL, Dangerzone, FIBOW, SEOW.... all out of the loop until a proper well established multiplayer / coop is established

.. and offline campaign... and AI and all the stuff wichs is in a miserable pre-alfa state

Jumo211 12-23-2011 07:23 PM

Dignified silence is worth more than a thousand insults....
The Emperor's New Clothes : BOM sequel
Merry Christmas :mad:

so much patiently waiting for so many years for
so little from Battle of Britain .....
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/ATT00026.gif

Tavingon 12-23-2011 07:26 PM

I hope we can have more planes from clod, 3rd party or otherwise.. And I will be very pizzed if we cant have the improvements added to CLOD that are planned for sequal

JG52Karaya 12-23-2011 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smink1701 (Post 372644)
It is what it is...we all hope and wish for more but the history of CLoD and current situation point to the fact that this baby was prematurely delivered, has severe defects and is unloved. While the potential was huge and Oleg's vision for the game monumental, it is the Chernobyl of combat flight sims. Maybe someone like 777 will come along and rescue this baby. On a positive note, it has made me rediscover Rise of Flight.

Merry Christmas.

Spot on, since the disaster that was the Multisquad campaign (which in no way is a stab at the guys who organized it, they cannot in any way be held responsible for the many issues that occured) our squadron has been switching over to Rise of Flight and is enjoying it immensely because a) it works and is well polished and b) has brilliant performance on moderate - high end systems.

I cannot see myself purchasing the Moscow expansion right away because as they say "once bitten, twice shy". Dont want to play beta tester yet another time

addman 12-23-2011 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tavingon (Post 372665)
I hope we can have more planes from clod, 3rd party or otherwise.. And I will be very pizzed if we cant have the improvements added to CLOD that are planned for sequal

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 372579)
We cannot make a new flyable for CoD because that means one less flyable for the sequel.

Sorry mate, I know how much you wanted that Defiant or Wellington.:( On the other hand you will get other new aircraft if you buy the upcoming pat...ehr sequel Battle of Moscow!:)

carguy_ 12-23-2011 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HR_Naglfar (Post 372646)
Seems like my message got lost among all the
There's no need of old coop GUI to make online wars right now. All the process of generate the mission, fly it, and report the log is obsolete and not needed. With scripts you can make whatever you want (an online war with real time air and ground movements, ordered in a web broswer map, for example).

There are a lot of possibilities to make online wars way better than all that we had with IL-2. But of course someone have to make it.

You seem to know what you`re talking about, so please explain it to all the online war folks what is wrong with this game. The way I understood your post is like CloD : it is here but we are not there yet.

I flew those missions. Hundreds of them. They have been the single thing closest to an actual online dynamic campaign. But as you may know there was a website with tools, map, statistics, ready scripts and such. This led for main leader players to generate a mission file and off we go.

In the state this game is actually : can I turn on something like Hyperlobby and enter a slot to wait for an online coop mission? That is my most basic question for my most basic online sim game.

Where do we exactly miss the point with CloD?

KG26_Alpha 12-23-2011 07:42 PM

All I want is something like this ..............

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=139

dcart 12-23-2011 07:48 PM

+1 CsThor and Mysticpuma

JG52Uther 12-23-2011 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha (Post 372676)
All I want is something like this ..............

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=139

Same...
il2 was all about the coop online wars for me.

carguy_ 12-23-2011 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chivas (Post 372648)
Your totally wrong, players have been flying, missions on the IL-2 Warclouds server for years that are mission based, and not airquake. Yes at times there will be people who join the server that arn't interested in the mission, but that can happen on Co-op servers aswell. The best part is you can join the mission 24/7 with no waiting, and you don't have to worry about someone running you over at the start of the mission and having to wait hours for the next mission to start.

The ATAG server in COD is mission based, and there are people flying bombers with full human crews, on long bombing missions. The tools are there like AI use and will only get better as the bugs and features are improved and more players join the servers.

I`m sorry if you do not understand what I`m saying. You seem to be with IL2 more than a few years like me, so you should know that an online war, even a simple generic slot based online coop mission is a whole different experience than dedicated dogfight servers, however organised they may be.
The part where you talk about waiting and someone running into you at the start is the exact thing people who don`t know online wars say. The only thing you had to have was organisation. Squads had it better all along. While coupled with your squad, you could setup online sorties one after another in a few moments. Every one of those sorties durated from 10-50 minutes and you could fly up to 12 of those in one evening. Half of the online campaign was played beside the game itself, on the website. And the decisions made on it made so much difference that if the leader players made a mistake (eg. choosing FW190 for low level escort), no effort could change the tide of war.

One plane, mission and pilot life. You either survived or died.

furbs 12-23-2011 07:53 PM

Cheers Luthier! after that Q and A...

You can stick BOM where the sun dont shine.

Helrza 12-23-2011 08:04 PM

Not to be negative or anything... but im slowly getting the feeling that the next patch will actually be the sequal. nm, ill put her away until then ;) damn shame that, but at least when it does come ill have my new build waiting to rip it apart :D

ACE-OF-ACES 12-23-2011 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furbs (Post 372683)
Cheers Luthier! after that Q and A...

You can stick BOM where the sun dont shine.

And some folks here wonder why Luthier does not post here more often.. Jezz

furbs 12-23-2011 08:13 PM

ACE ive supported IL2 all through from the start, brought every sim Oleg made.

Oleg made good on his word for IL2.

Luthier and his team are taking the ****

and ACE no offence mate but i dont give a feck what you say on this.

addman 12-23-2011 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES (Post 372692)
And some folks here wonder why Luthier does not post here more often.. Jezz

Hey luthier! one pre-order for BoM right here ^

Doo 12-23-2011 08:24 PM

From this and the last Q&A, regretfully, I have lost all faith in this sim and it's makers.

It will remain a lethally flawed product.

Very sad.

F19_Klunk 12-23-2011 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigC208 (Post 372619)
It's all good. The game will be patched up to where it's playable for everyone, not just those with top of the line computers. Those that don't want BoM can leave it on the store shelves and still enjoy CloD.

Luthier is praising himself for still working on the game after 7 months. I see that a bit different. As far as I'm concerned we're still in the 7th month of a paid for Beta. I'll regard it the release version when the next patch delivers on the performance increases and bug fix promises. I don't expect a multimillion dollar sim experience for $50. What I do expect is a finished product at some point. If Clod is not playable for all (min box spec) before BoM is released I'll wait with buying untill the reviews are out.

For me personally the sim in it's current state is enjoyable. Even with the messed up comms, the now and then crashes, the gui that sucks, the trees I can fly thru without collision, etc etc. When I get ticked off with some of the things I miss I'll just go play RoF or DCS for a bit. I keep coming back to CloD because there is simply no other WWII combat sim out there that's as immersive and detailed as CloD. When (not if) Luthier's team fixes what needs to be fixed this series will keep us entertained for the next 10 years.

Very well put and pretty much the same as I feel. To work on a "half broken" title to make it work properly... even 7 months after release, is the only decent thing that can be done to keep customer and reputation.
I too enjoy clod from time to time now on a very expensive rig (it ran like crap on my old, with lowest gfx setting looking like something from late 1990s), online only with crashes every 40 minutes. It bugs me that it feels so "unfinished" (antialiasing problem for example) when there is so much working for it... the sensation of flying is fantastic.. you can really feel the weight of the planes in contrast to old il2 series. It bugs me because I can see how great this title COULD be.

We will just have to see, Clod could have a contender for beeing THE WWII game in upcoming World of Planes.... they HAVE to succeed with Clod imo... or loose the upperhand that I feel that they still have.

Great to hear from Luthier that the team will continue to work with the issues and that the strategy for upcoming sequels will be the sams as with the "old" IL2 series.

ATAG_Bliss 12-23-2011 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesehawk (Post 372686)
What you describe is AirQuake with bombing.

I'd hardly call it AirQuake. Once you realize that the current situation of the game, in the MP side of things, doesn't allow for massive bomber formations or realistic flight times to make any sort of "historical" scenario, then you'd also realize why we have the maps are setup like they are atm.

I don't get your mentality. If you don't like the current MP offerings, then by all means, please do make your own. But every where I look you constantly call what we do as airquake, and quite frankly, it's getting old.

Maybe spend 100's of hours testing and making different missions and you'll probably easily realize why we HAVE to do some of the things we do.

Thr0tt 12-23-2011 08:31 PM

lol, ok this has convinced me to uninstall this pos game - Will check back in a few months but what a shame this game series died like this.

ACE-OF-ACES 12-23-2011 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furbs (Post 372694)
ACE ive supported IL2 all through from the start, brought every sim Oleg made.

Oleg made good on his word for IL2.

Luthier and his team are taking the ****

and ACE no offence mate but i dont give a feck what you say on this.

If your not happy, that is fine!

And it is fine for you to say your not happy!

But to tell him to stick it where the sun don't shine?

Don't you think that is a little childish?

ACE-OF-ACES 12-23-2011 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addman (Post 372695)
Hey luthier! one pre-order for BoM right here ^

It's too bad you and others were not around during the IL-2 days addman..

Than maybe you would understand my sig?

HR_Naglfar 12-23-2011 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carguy_ (Post 372673)
You seem to know what you`re talking about, so please explain it to all the online war folks what is wrong with this game. The way I understood your post is like CloD : it is here but we are not there yet.

I flew those missions. Hundreds of them. They have been the single thing closest to an actual online dynamic campaign. But as you may know there was a website with tools, map, statistics, ready scripts and such. This led for main leader players to generate a mission file and off we go.

In the state this game is actually : can I turn on something like Hyperlobby and enter a slot to wait for an online coop mission? That is my most basic question for my most basic online sim game.

Where do we exactly miss the point with CloD?

Well... if someone makes a website with tools, maps, statistics and all that, capable of generate CoD missions (as I said, the structure is similar to old IL-2 so this must not be very difficult) and read CoD logs, I think that that's all the necessary to make an old style online war.

The missions can be generated with a coop script that, for example, forces the players to fly only in their assigned plane at the moment of generating the mission. Like I said the possibilities are nearly endless, but im not a programmer, so I don't know how to do it, only that can be done :mrgreen:



Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesehawk (Post 372682)
Show us, make an online war that keeps track of everything, build us a mission where everyone can figure out what plane they're in before they start, give us the control and flexibility of the previous iteration's mode.

There are simply things that are missing, hidden, or otherwise impossible to do.

As I said I'm not a programmer and I don't know how to do it. But it can be done.

HR_Grainovich 12-23-2011 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thr0tt (Post 372699)
but what a shame this game series died like this.

Negative! This series is reviving now! the potential is huge! your script will make this simulator will lives 10 years!

addman 12-23-2011 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES (Post 372705)
It's too bad you and others were not around during the IL-2 days addman..

Than maybe you would understand my sig?

LOL! I've been around since the blue-byte days mate. It was a great time, I kept begging for screenshots of the MiG-3 together with "Cat", maybe you remember her? Maybe you remember Galen Thurber? It doesn't matter what you try to convince other people of, facts still remain and you are pointing to the past and the past doesn't guarantee the future.

furbs 12-23-2011 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES (Post 372702)
If your not happy, that is fine!

And it is fine for you to say your not happy!

But to tell him to stick it where the sun don't shine?

Don't you think that is a little childish?

So how long is BOM away? 6 months? a year? 2 years?

CLOD is 60% finished and almost nothing works as should or was advertised...now we have to wait until BOM to "MAYBE" have CLOD fixed.

And you think this is a good way to treat paying customers?

CLOD doesnt need CO-OPs? Luthier is just sayng that because they cant or wont fix it.

SEE 12-23-2011 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thr0tt (Post 372699)
lol, ok this has convinced me to uninstall this pos game - Will check back in a few months but what a shame this game series died like this.

It hasn't died, it may not be perfect but better than anything else in my book. I booted Il1946 yesterday and had an enjoyable time but it looked dated and was too simplistic compared to ClOD to hold my attention for more than just a few sorties. MP has a good community and the majority of players believe this SIM is pretty awesome despite the flaws. It will get better, it will have sequels and it will continue to have support - you can delete it of course, entirely up to you but one mans 'pos' is another mans potential little gem!

Flanker35M 12-23-2011 09:03 PM

S!

Just get the performance/GFX patch out along with a well documented SDK and the fan base will take care of the rest ;)

addman 12-23-2011 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flanker35M (Post 372715)
S!

Just get the performance/GFX patch out along with a well documented SDK and the fan base will take care of the rest ;)

+1

Havoc04 12-23-2011 09:09 PM

Well it seems that after reading all of that. That in order to see improvements in CLOD you will have to buy the expansion.. And i get the horrible feeling that the next patch will BE the expansion, which equals paying cash for fixes. I certainly HOPE this isn't the case. Am i complaining? Sure am

Regards

Tavingon 12-23-2011 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havoc04 (Post 372719)
Well it seems that after reading all of that. That in order to see improvements in CLOD you will have to buy the expansion.. And i get the horrible feeling that the next patch will BE the expansion, which equals paying cash for fixes. I certainly HOPE this isn't the case. Am i complaining? Sure am

Regards

I am worried..

Havoc04 12-23-2011 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tavingon (Post 372720)
I am worried..

Indeed. So am i.
I keep seeing SEQUEL at the end of sentences of things that you would hope would have been included in a patch that equals no money.

But thats only guess work on my behalf but i can only summarize from what has been posted.

Regards

Urufu_Shinjiro 12-23-2011 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addman (Post 372710)
Maybe you remember %^@&^@%@

GAK!!! Don't say that name! You might invoke him, lol.

Urufu_Shinjiro 12-23-2011 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havoc04 (Post 372719)
Well it seems that after reading all of that. That in order to see improvements in CLOD you will have to buy the expansion.. And i get the horrible feeling that the next patch will BE the expansion, which equals paying cash for fixes. I certainly HOPE this isn't the case. Am i complaining? Sure am

Regards

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tavingon (Post 372720)
I am worried..

OMG!!!! Really? Stop perpetuating these rumors! Did you even read what Luthier wrote in this very thread this very day?

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 372579)
Hey folks,

I see that these answers led some folks here, and most of the folks on my favorite sukhoi.ru, to read between the lines and see my answers to specific questions as indications of larger-scale abandonment of the project.

That's not the case at all.

I answered specific questions and didn't touch on the larger effort. It remains the same. Sped up graphics, launcher errors, improved FM, etc, all of that is in progress as previously stated.

We are trying to pull off a very difficult balancing act with developing a new game and supporting an old one at the same time. Pretty much no one does that. Most large developers simply release games, support them for a month at the most, and then switch to new paid content regardless of the state of the game. We are however trying not only to patch up major issues, we're working on improving things that generally work - and we're doing that for free seven months after release. We are doing that by trying to parallel tasks as much as possible and improving CoD while developing a sequel.

That is however simply not possible with some features. In some cases that's a question of limited resources. We cannot make a new flyable for CoD because that means one less flyable for the sequel. With other tasks it's simply a matter of time. Some of the changes we're making are so sweeping, they're scheduled to be completed very close to the sequel's ship date. The animation for example is such a huge task with so many facets that we can't just take it, turn it into a half a gig patch, and release it for CoD a month before the release of the sequel.

And to make sure to drive my main point across. We are still working on improving CoD. No one's abandoned it. There will be patches. My answers about things in the sequel were meant for those specific features. Please don't try to read between the lines!


ACE-OF-ACES 12-23-2011 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addman (Post 372710)
LOL! I've been around since the blue-byte days mate. It was a great time, I kept begging for screenshots of the MiG-3 together with "Cat", maybe you remember her? Maybe you remember Galen Thurber? It doesn't matter what you try to convince other people of, facts still remain and you are pointing to the past and the past doesn't guarantee the future.

Huh.. See I was just giving you the benifit of the doubt.. But if what you say is true, than what your saying is there is no excuse for your actions.. Ok got it thanks!

Havoc04 12-23-2011 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro (Post 372725)
OMG!!!! Really? Stop perpetuating these rumors! Did you even read what Luthier wrote in this very thread this very day?

Ok fair enough.. But most days i don't have the TIME to go trolling through countless pages of posts to look at everything. That post WAS from the man himself, either amend it to the 1st page or create a new thread so peeps can see. What HE says adds perspective indeed. Fair enough i stand corrected for the most part.

Regards

addman 12-23-2011 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES (Post 372727)
Huh.. See I was just giving you the benifit of the doubt.. But if what you say is true, than what your saying is there is no excuse for your actions.. Ok got it thanks!

Say wuuut?!

addman 12-23-2011 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro (Post 372724)
GAK!!! Don't say that name! You might invoke him, lol.

LOL! I'm afraid he might already be among us under a different pseudonym.:)

SlipBall 12-23-2011 09:55 PM

Thank's for the answers to some of the questions.:grin:

JG5_emil 12-23-2011 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philip.ed (Post 372550)
well said mate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysticpuma (Post 372650)
firstly let me quote the following replies:

Orville:

"so people who could care less about the battle for moscow have to pay yet more in order to see features that were misleadingly continually mooted as being in development for cod, pre release (though cleverly not 'technically' promised i suppose for the pedagogue sophist's around) . No matter what anybody says, that is the truth. Kept that one quiet pre-cod release, eh? Fantastic. No more ships or planes either for cod (aka 'slight skirmish over peckham'). Happy times. I might even be daft enough to buy the sequel.....but you can guarantee others won't. In any event, certainly won't be pre ordering this time. Fool me once.......

Shocking, really."

jg27_mc:

"it's a shame that the most important air battle of history (imho) has been reproduced on this simulation the way it is... I fell completely cheated! Damn this thing had a huge potential... "

csthor:

"the way i am reading things - and i admit that the following contains pure speculation on my part - i am beginning to believe that maddox games consider clod a failed effort and not worth the hassle to fix it. Rewriting the engine (fm, sound, gui ... Anything left that'll not be changed?) tells me that the current engine is not salvagable. Imo the new management 1c got when it merged with softklub last year is another factor in this (read: Money grabbers).

If bom is indeed all that ilya wanted for clod then that would be nice, but from my pov - and i have been an ardent fan of the il-2 series and i have done little bits and things for almost each version of the game, at least until oleg departed - that product will have to be just as big a hit as the original il-2 was. It needs to be thematically sound, needs to have all the relevant objects and aircraft, it will need a much less complicated and nerve-wracking gui, it will need a campaign system that is worth the title ... In short it will need to contain everything that clod is missing right now. That's a tall order, especially since maddox games was never particularly good at developing gameplay factors or not wasting effort on pointless objects/aircraft."

anttik:

"i'm at loss... So to get currently very much incomplete product completed we have to buy the sequel? I'm not talking about which planes and which maps we get, i'm talking about broken features. I thought we'd get the game patched to a standard gold level as per usual for the price we paid for? Did i miss something?"

bigc208:

"luthier is praising himself for still working on the game after 7 months. I see that a bit different. As far as i'm concerned we're still in the 7th month of a paid for beta. I'll regard it the release version when the next patch delivers on the performance increases and bug fix promises. I don't expect a multimillion dollar sim experience for $50. What i do expect is a finished product at some point. If clod is not playable for all (min box spec) before bom is released i'll wait with buying untill the reviews are out. "

csthor:

"and here we seem to disagree on a very fundamental level, ilya. I do not know the business realities of maddox games nor do i wish to know, but in my book clod is at the moment nothing more than an unfinished game engine which is about to be rewritten. It's not a full game, the offline part is too minimal and too incomplete to provide much offline entertainment and the online part is bugged with the crashes, the fmb is still "touchy" in a few areas (i.e. The weather controls) and even the channel map has a few annoying bugs (i.e. The holes in the landscape). Right now clod is - in my opinion - not more than an early alpha. It runs but the content (apart from the aircraft) is not really there, yet.
So this is my impression of the state of things when you posted that certain "features" will be postponed until the sequel. Even for me, and i am not short of a €, this does a lot to increase the wtf? State of mind i'm finding myself in wrt clod. Are you seriously expecting the customers just to shrug and swallow that they'll have to pay yet another full game price just to get features which were promised for clod (some features which i personally regard as vital for any game like a decent campaign mode)? Are you really expecting us to shrug off the total omission of the royal navy?

My point is that switching full-throttle to the production of the sequel, given the way things are atm, is indeed quite a slap into the face of customers who have bought the product in good faith, customers who were looking for a good representation of the battle of britain with all its phases."


i have to say i very much agree with everything above, all of it really hits the nail on the head!



Luthier:

""the graphics reload has finally reached a sufficiently stable alpha state. Public beta is within reach.""

"the ground modeling staff and myself have subsequently made the fully switch that department to the sequel."

luthier:

"we are however trying not only to patch up major issues, we're working on improving things that generally work - and we're doing that for free seven months after release. We are doing that by trying to parallel tasks as much as possible and improving cod while developing a sequel."

just hang on here luthier, the issue is this;

this game is not working properly. Please don't think we should be grateful that you are continuing to work on the game and make it work as it should have from the release date?!

Look at the last 7-months of development as punishment for releasing a piece of unfinished software to a clamouring public who were/are willing to forgive a lot, but not now.

I think it is disgraceful to say that you will fix all the issues and let people play clod as they should have been able to on the release day...but only if you buy the sequel!

You see you have to buy the sequel to have all the features that were promised in the software that was purchased 7-months-ago, because if you don't buy the sequel, well you can carry on playing your half-finished product, continue bleating about it...but don't worry, luthier, you can tell us that all is well, because we can pay for a patch that fixes it and the patch will have a name called "battle for moscow"

so now, 1c can start a new trend where software companies can say they will release a game/sim and then when people have paid for it, these software companies can then say..."but if you want it to work without crashing, include the terrain fixes that should have been in the original, include weather effects that should have been in the original, include a campaign that should have been (working properly) in the original (although altered for russia as bob isn't important really!) and many other features.....wlell don't worry, you can now buy a patch to fix our faulty software as we no-longer provide fixes to make our software work correctly, for-free!"

i think it's pitiful that you now say if you want your software to work correctly, you'll have to pay for an update to fix it....but we'll call it a new add-on as saying it was a patch wouldn't look right ;)

i agree with others, 1c has disappointed many customers with this news and i will certainly be waiting for reports on the new update before even touching it with a euro.

However don't worry, if bom doesn't work correctly..we can pay for a patch to patch it!

Mp

yes yes yes

Chivas 12-23-2011 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carguy_ (Post 372680)
I`m sorry if you do not understand what I`m saying. You seem to be with IL2 more than a few years like me, so you should know that an online war, even a simple generic slot based online coop mission is a whole different experience than dedicated dogfight servers, however organised they may be.
The part where you talk about waiting and someone running into you at the start is the exact thing people who don`t know online wars say. The only thing you had to have was organisation. Squads had it better all along. While coupled with your squad, you could setup online sorties one after another in a few moments. Every one of those sorties durated from 10-50 minutes and you could fly up to 12 of those in one evening. Half of the online campaign was played beside the game itself, on the website. And the decisions made on it made so much difference that if the leader players made a mistake (eg. choosing FW190 for low level escort), no effort could change the tide of war.

One plane, mission and pilot life. You either survived or died.

I agree that all the online gaming features may not be complete yet, and may be blocking third parties from developing wars with full stats, but I'm still not sure what exactly you need. Right now you can have two sides with all the diversity of missions you can think of that also includes AI involvement. As far as Dead is Dead, nobody is stopping you from not flying for whatever time you feel is right, or even blocking people from joining the server for that time period.

I'm still not sure what exactly a COOP server can provide that a regular server can't?
It looks to me that he developer is trying to build one server model with options to setup for whatever purpose you would like to employ. It still appears to be a work in progress like everything else. It took along time for modders to fully develop the online wars in IL-2 and will probably take some time in COD aswell.

Its still a mute point until the game engine is optimized enough for everyone to enjoy a session online. Maybe by that time online options will be more workable for online wars.

6BL Bird-Dog 12-23-2011 10:27 PM

Glad to see it officialy announced BOM will be able to be merged with CLoD.:)
I do find it dissapointing that no attention is being paid to the Coop Gui situation when basically all that is required is for the host to be able launch the mission when he has seen that all players are ready and can boot any time wasters that turn up.Other than that a final score page at mission end.
There are plenty of squads who run online wars waiting for this who have bought CLod & if it could be implemented in BoM and backward compatible with CLod I am sure it would secure much higher sales than without it.
Many put a lot of time and research into their Coops ,I have getting on for 4000 online Missions ,most of which wrote by the communiy & a lot could be concidered as historical online campaigns for Il2.

I would have liked to have seen a detailed manual on mission building with scripts for copying was to be added as it could be isued with BoM too.

To not have offline campaigns as in iL2 will be a big mistake as there are many offlinegamers in the comunity ,in the past it kept me busy for two and a half years living in the "Campo"whilst in Spain,no phone or internet :( I colected new ones when going to a big town that had an internet Cafe:)

I canot agree seven months unpaid work has been done without payment of wadges since the games release as it is not realy a true statement .
When the game was released it was in such an unfinished state & you have had to take that time trying to fix it , it still will not run as it was supposed to out of the Box.
We have actualy paid in advance for this work and on my part I beleve there were probably many reasons for what has happened than the comunity is aware of.
I shall look foreward to the next patch and hope that the up-coming holidays will give you all a well earned rest.
Anyhow .
Seasons Greetings to All:grin:

Icebear 12-23-2011 10:38 PM

sorry, please delete

ATAG_Bliss 12-23-2011 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesehawk (Post 372732)
No disrespect to you intended Bliss, I do know how hard you've worked on your server. And simply put, without your server out there, a large part of the people here would not be playing this flawed game anymore, kudo's to you for being part of what's keeping this game alive. But you reinforce my point, the limitations of the game make everything dogfight aka airquake. There is very limited ability to make one thing effect another in an ongoing process, the game engine creates glitches and crashes. Being an ongoing mission, with endlessly repeating flights, static targets, no real objectives that effect mission-planning, or outcome, invariably produces a simple fps style of experience. Added to that the endless balancing of sides (which I viewed as a concession to a vocal minority/majority perhaps innaccurately, but still my point of view), I simply choose to abstain from your particular server. Still, no offense intended, and I'm still appreciative of all the help and tips you've personally given me earlier, my understanding of the FMB and scripting is in large part thanks to you! S!

Yet, beneath all that, it is the problems in the game itself, which do not appear to be scheduled to fix while still under the title we bought, and expected to have working, is the main culprit. To call what we have now a merge of dogfight and co-op is oversimplifying what a co-op truly is. What we can do now are simply co-operative play in a airquake environment, not a true co-op, not true historical missions, not a realistic simulation of the Battle of Britain. I think even you can concede that.

Your ideas of airquake are very different than mine. Airquake is having 2 airfields 200m on some fantasy island with airstarts and fighting to the death. Having an objective based mission(s) is far from that. It's as if you think that FB got to 46 with regards to knowledge, 3rd party tools, and the community in 7 months instead of 10 years. Things like this will take time, just like with the other title. Expecting this type of stuff from the get go is a just a bit ambitious don't ya think?

Just because it's not there yet, doesn't mean people like us aren't working towards it. FFS we've just figured out how to script some sort of win conditions for objectives to load other maps etc. It's as if you think mission building / coding in this game takes minutes. I mean, no offense, but I'd love to see you do some of this stuff you are talking about. Just because a mission has a historical scenario around it, doesn't necessarily change the tactics where people to choose to fly it. When you stopped flying on the server was when the 5 spitIIa's were put on there. And ever since then you won't fly there because you don't know how to fly against them. If it had to do with airquake, you never would have from the get go.

CaptainDoggles 12-23-2011 10:47 PM

5 doesn't sound like a lot when it's 20 on 20, but when it's late at night your server becomes unplayable because all 5 red players are in Spit 2s and all 5 blue players might as well leave the game.

ATAG_Bliss 12-23-2011 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles (Post 372764)
5 doesn't sound like a lot when it's 20 on 20, but when it's late at night your server becomes unplayable because all 5 red players are in Spit 2s and all 5 blue players might as well leave the game.

That's strange, because when I've met a SpitIIa at altitude in my E4 saying there's only 2 of us on the server, it's the best dogfighting I've ever had in the game. Throw some teamwork in the mix and they'll run home to momma.

Btw, late at night is usually when I fly.

Tvrdi 12-23-2011 11:34 PM

So, no new planes for CLOD....in other words a bloody abandoning...

Bewolf 12-23-2011 11:42 PM

no new planes I can live with, but having to wait for the addon for some major fixes is indeed a bit of a let down. the BoB scenario still has massive pontential, and though I see why concentrating on the russian market may even be important for the team, it still is a huge waste and a let down of sorts. I will fet the BoM for sure, but I simply do not feel the love for the product like it was with the old IL2.

adonys 12-23-2011 11:48 PM

the usual bla blas, and some worrying news. that's sad :(

and considering that today, after 9 months of "patches", the current state of the game is pretty much still the same as at the launch back in march, aka disastrous, and with these news.. I don't know what else can be said..

there are a few words in the answers which you guys seem to miss: many "will work on", not "we've worked on" (and finished it) or at least some "we're working on".. which sums up towards zero..

CUJO_1970 12-23-2011 11:50 PM

So...not only is CLOD released unfinished, there are no plans to finish it at all.

Sutts 12-23-2011 11:50 PM

Well I'm feeling pretty positive about things and I really don't see where all the negativity is coming from.

Facts....

1. We are getting a sequel, and that is a very good thing. Let's not forget how much we NEED this sim to live on and develop...just like IL2. No one else is going to give us what we crave for with such exquisite detail.

2. CloD will continue to be patched and I'm sure some very nice improvements will arrive in short order.

3. CloD will be reborn when merged with the new title....all the new goodies will magically be available to us to use in the skies over the channel. That is fantastic news...although I didn't doubt that's the way it would be done.

4. The BoM release will be hugely popular with the home market and I'm sure many over here will snap it up too - lots of lovely ground pounding and hopefully vast areas to fly over due to the sparse object density. That's got to be a good thing for the series with a fresh cash injection to make it even better.


I really fail to see why so many are on such a downer? The game will improve and the future looks bright. Just look what they did with the sounds. Now imagine the same job applied to the graphics, FM, AI.......

What we paid for this is NOTHING, ZILCH, DIDDLY SQUAT....compared to what we willingly fork out for PC, joystick etc. Just look how much you can spend on TrackIR alone! Let's get this in perspective before ranting on like it's a defective 30 grand BMW.

Please, give the guys a break and start appreciating what we have and what they're trying to give us (if we let them). Support them. They really are on our side. I'm a programmer and I know how much blood and sweat you have to put into such complex software. It really is incredibly hard to produce something like CloD and with a community like ours it's a real thankless task.

As my favourite character would say...have a little faith baby, have a little faith.;)

salmo 12-24-2011 12:04 AM

Cheesehawk,

Are you talking about development of a "dynamic war" type system for ClOD? Something akin to the old IL2-1946 Bellum code, or IL2 Wars, Southern Cross War etc.

What I mean is things like...

1. Persistent aircraft states - damage takes time to repair a given airplane, wear persists & increases from flight to flight, maintenance "repairs" wear. maybe maintentance rates could be related to number of workshops at airfield. Destroy workshops leads to reduced maintentance rate.

2. Peristent pilots - "same" AI pilot for a given plane. Same name, skill attributes increase with number of succcessful missions &/or number of kills, targets hit etc.

3. Moving front lines - based on outcome of missions & objectives achieved. Some script for moving front lines is already available.

4. Pilot replacement - Pehaps lost pilots can be replaced at a certain rate.

5. Plane replacement - Perhaps planes can be replaced at a certain rate, maybe related to the presence of aircraft factories. Destroy aircraft factories leads to reduce aircraft replacement rate.


Merry X-mas to all.
Cheers
Salmo

Sutts 12-24-2011 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tvrdi (Post 372772)
So, no new planes for CLOD....in other words a bloody abandoning...

Come on Tvrdi, you really are the most negative guy I've seen for quite some time....even more so than Tree perhaps:grin:

Firstly, I don't remember any extra planes being promised for this title. I'd say what we have is more than adequate (for now).

CloD is not being abandoned at all. With the new sequel we will immediately have access to ALL the new functionality, objects and aircraft which will no doubt include the flyable Dornier etc. that would be nice to have.

Development is expensive and new funds must come from somewhere. The alternative is a still-born series and no hope for high fidelity WWII air combat for the foreseeable future. I know what I'd rather have.

Please get over this feeling of being wronged. The developers are trying hard to make the best of a bad situation and a successful outcome will benefit us all.

adonys 12-24-2011 12:06 AM

I'm sorry, but our faith got lost during these 9 months in which we've got basically nothing.

any words on what is the "secret feature which was supposed to make all the competition go screaming"?!!

Skoshi Tiger 12-24-2011 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutts (Post 372779)
Well I'm feeling pretty positive about things and I really don't see where all the negativity is coming from.

Facts....

1. We are getting a sequel, and that is a very good thing. Let's not forget how much we NEED this sim to live on and develop...just like IL2. No one else is going to give us what we crave for with such exquisite detail.

2. CloD will continue to be patched and I'm sure some very nice improvements will arrive in short order.

3. CloD will be reborn when merged with the new title....all the new goodies will magically be available to us to use in the skies over the channel. That is fantastic news...although I didn't doubt that's the way it would be done.

4. The BoM release will be hugely popular with the home market and I'm sure many over here will snap it up too - lots of lovely ground pounding and hopefully vast areas to fly over due to the sparse object density. That's got to be a good thing for the series with a fresh cash injection to make it even better.


I really fail to see why so many are on such a downer? The game will improve and the future looks bright. Just look what they did with the sounds. Now imagine the same job applied to the graphics, FM, AI.......

What we paid for this is NOTHING, ZILCH, DIDDLY SQUAT....compared to what we willingly fork out for PC, joystick etc. Just look how much you can spend on TrackIR alone! Let's get this in perspective before ranting on like it's a defective 30 grand BMW.

Please, give the guys a break and start appreciating what we have and what they're trying to give us (if we let them). Support them. They really are on our side. I'm a programmer and I know how much blood and sweat you have to put into such complex software. It really is incredibly hard to produce something like CloD and with a community like ours it's a real thankless task.

As my favourite character would say...have a little faith baby, have a little faith.;)

+1
Knowing there will be continued support for the series is the best Christmas present I'll get this year!

ACE-OF-ACES 12-24-2011 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutts (Post 372779)
Well I'm feeling pretty positive about things and I really don't see where all the negativity is coming from.

Facts....

1. We are getting a sequel, and that is a very good thing. Let's not forget how much we NEED this sim to live on and develop...just like IL2. No one else is going to give us what we crave for with such exquisite detail.

2. CloD will continue to be patched and I'm sure some very nice improvements will arrive in short order.

3. CloD will be reborn when merged with the new title....all the new goodies will magically be available to us to use in the skies over the channel. That is fantastic news...although I didn't doubt that's the way it would be done.

4. The BoM release will be hugely popular with the home market and I'm sure many over here will snap it up too - lots of lovely ground pounding and hopefully vast areas to fly over due to the sparse object density. That's got to be a good thing for the series with a fresh cash injection to make it even better.


I really fail to see why so many are on such a downer? The game will improve and the future looks bright. Just look what they did with the sounds. Now imagine the same job applied to the graphics, FM, AI.......

What we paid for this is NOTHING, ZILCH, DIDDLY SQUAT....compared to what we willingly fork out for PC, joystick etc. Just look how much you can spend on TrackIR alone! Let's get this in perspective before ranting on like it's a defective 30 grand BMW.

Please, give the guys a break and start appreciating what we have and what they're trying to give us (if we let them). Support them. They really are on our side. I'm a programmer and I know how much blood and sweat you have to put into such complex software. It really is incredibly hard to produce something like CloD and with a community like ours it's a real thankless task.

As my favourite character would say...have a little faith baby, have a little faith.;)

+1

RCAF_FB_Orville 12-24-2011 12:23 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJDTu...all&playnext=1

Its just a joke people, calm doon. Yet strangely, it has the ring of truth, as is oft the case. :grin: It's only a game, too. Merry Christmas one and all. Drive safely. Heed 'cats eyes'. Eat Mince pies. And be Jolly. :grin:

Cya in the new year. :grin:

Ctrl E 12-24-2011 12:37 AM

Luthier,

With utmost respect, I find your assertion that you were doing us a favor by continuing support for this game seven months after release quite insulting.

You could make this argument if the game worked anything like as promised on release, but we all know it did not.

I fear recent developments have done far too much damage to the brand of this developer for many of us to support you on your next promised venture.

Given the developer's recent track record I cannot find it in my heart to believe BOM will ever be released, nor that CloD will ever be fixed.

I hope I am wrong.

I hope you can work things out. But I remain deeply disappointed and disillusioned.

ATAG_Dutch 12-24-2011 12:49 AM

Personally, I'd happily pay another £100 to have all the current AI 'planes flyable plus a Fairey Swordfish, together with the new graphics/engine, new sounds/engine, fully functioning comms, full weather systems, merchant shipping, a few Royal Navy battleships, cruisers, subs and destroyers, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Prince Eugen, Bismark and some U-boats. And of course all the FM's overhauled, AI included. Navigation and landing lights would be good also.

That would mean paying about £200 altogether for 'Storm of War - The Battle of Britain' (Ibought 2 CE's of 'Cliffs of Dover') and it'd be worth it. I think I'd be happy with that.

I don't feel like spending diddly-squat on BfM at the moment.

jayrc 12-24-2011 12:57 AM

Thanks Ilya and Team:grin: Have a Happy Holiday:mrgreen:

Chivas 12-24-2011 01:13 AM

Merry Christmas Luthier and team

Happy to hear your still working on COD and the sequel. :)

hiro 12-24-2011 01:53 AM

I was so happy for this update. I still am, despite the "was"


Thanks for the update!!

I got laid off earlier this week, yeah merry christmas. 2 years ago was looking at the same thing. out of all my friends only 1/4 are working. out of those working, 95% one has seen a raise or bonus in 2 years. the others are in places that are impervious to the economy (or are rich and balling like Kim Kard)

So its bad.


I saw some the answers given . . . and wow the negativity is rolling fast, I think by page 2 or 3 the complaints were starting to surface, no wait it was page 1 !!

Anycase I realized that the devs had taken a major hit with ClOd. The economy really bites here in the US. And it probably does across the pond. Its a good they have enough to work on a sequel, and if they know it will sell fast locally to generate some cash.

Have to understand, there's that element of working from scratch (Oleg's gone, and well the code he had, he probably took)

But the game is rolling. Guys and gals, we will have a successor worthy of IL-2 in a few years.

I know many aren't going to be patient but once the arcade of world of planes and world of plane craft, and world of war plane wears off, and rise of flight has zeppelins and now the word war I guys get to laugh at the ww2 guys and the ww2 simmers in anger (well justly so since red baron of years ago was gone . . . and Il-2 glory days came )

everyones going to turn back to here, to Il-2 COD and its successors.

Remember Christmas is about lots of things and be thankful this season.

Woot and we are getting the communication we asked for. it may not what we want to hear but . . . we getting some.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWUYYSijfvo

CaptainDoggles 12-24-2011 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss (Post 372765)
That's strange, because when I've met a SpitIIa at altitude in my E4 saying there's only 2 of us on the server, it's the best dogfighting I've ever had in the game. Throw some teamwork in the mix and they'll run home to momma.

Btw, late at night is usually when I fly.

Post tracks or videos, then. I had Spit 2's outclimbing me easily at 8000 metres.

katdogfizzow 12-24-2011 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutts (Post 372779)
Well I'm feeling pretty positive about things and I really don't see where all the negativity is coming from.

Facts....

1. We are getting a sequel, and that is a very good thing. Let's not forget how much we NEED this sim to live on and develop...just like IL2. No one else is going to give us what we crave for with such exquisite detail.

2. CloD will continue to be patched and I'm sure some very nice improvements will arrive in short order.

3. CloD will be reborn when merged with the new title....all the new goodies will magically be available to us to use in the skies over the channel. That is fantastic news...although I didn't doubt that's the way it would be done.

4. The BoM release will be hugely popular with the home market and I'm sure many over here will snap it up too - lots of lovely ground pounding and hopefully vast areas to fly over due to the sparse object density. That's got to be a good thing for the series with a fresh cash injection to make it even better.


I really fail to see why so many are on such a downer? The game will improve and the future looks bright. Just look what they did with the sounds. Now imagine the same job applied to the graphics, FM, AI.......

What we paid for this is NOTHING, ZILCH, DIDDLY SQUAT....compared to what we willingly fork out for PC, joystick etc. Just look how much you can spend on TrackIR alone! Let's get this in perspective before ranting on like it's a defective 30 grand BMW.

Please, give the guys a break and start appreciating what we have and what they're trying to give us (if we let them). Support them. They really are on our side. I'm a programmer and I know how much blood and sweat you have to put into such complex software. It really is incredibly hard to produce something like CloD and with a community like ours it's a real thankless task.

As my favourite character would say...have a little faith baby, have a little faith.;)

+2

Blakduk 12-24-2011 03:02 AM

To all of you, the devs, the fanboys and the pessimists- have a good Xmas.
I've had fun with this game since I purchased the pre-release early this year. It's not all I want it to be but it's still a generation ahead of il2.
I'll see you in the new year with high hopes that BoM will be bigger and better, and look forward to the backwards compatible fixes that will make CoD much better and more stable.

Remember guys, we are the weirdo freaks who like to play war in a flight sim, and there are not too many of us in the world. Too many people pay approx $100usd for FPS's that rakes in billions of $'s, while most of what I see on these forums is people whining about spending half that on a game developed by a small crew of dedicated guys.
If you spend half as much time playing as you do bitching on these forums, you are getting your money's worth.

LoBiSoMeM 12-24-2011 03:50 AM

When a sniper gunner of IL-2 1946 kill me i love CloD more.

Simple as that. It's evolution baby!

GF_Mastiff 12-24-2011 04:10 AM

I have a sneaky suspicion that were are going to be paying for a new version and the first release was just that, a beta.

The next evolution release will have 2 maps, Channel map, Northeastern front and more planes and better graphics.

=FI=Scott 12-24-2011 04:13 AM

Having read the original post and Luthiers subsequent comments I'm not impressed. I might be less vocal than others round here but I look behind me and see every IL2 sim released, all bought asap and top dollar, in addition to that I don't know how many copies of 'old IL2' I have bought as gifts but its got to be double figures.

I will not buy a sequel to this game unless it is so cheap it falls in the same category as throwing an impulse bar of choclate in the basket on the way out of the supermarket and I see I am not alone. On that basis this company has a problem, and a big one at that.

BigC208 12-24-2011 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =FI=Scott (Post 372833)
Having read the original post and Luthiers subsequent comments I'm not impressed. I might be less vocal than others round here but I look behind me and see every IL2 sim released, all bought asap and top dollar, in addition to that I don't know how many copies of 'old IL2' I have bought as gifts but its got to be double figures.

I will not buy a sequel to this game unless it is so cheap it falls in the same category as throwing an impulse bar of choclate in the basket on the way out of the supermarket and I see I am not alone. On that basis this company has a problem, and a big one at that.

Nah, I bet you'll buy it the first change you get "IF" the reviews are positive. Oh, and you'll pay top dollar for it! Just like myself and all the other flightsim junkies out there.

Game Computer $1500
Hotas Warthog $500
CH Pro pedals $100
Track IR4 $120
3x22 inch monitors $900
CH trhottle Quadrant $120
Cambridge soundworks 7.1 surround sound $200

Bitching about the $50 we're being charged to play the game we plundered our kids college funds for...Priceless! (I know, I know, I bitch with the best of em.)

Merry Christmas to the 1C team and the fellow sim junkies out there!

Chivas 12-24-2011 05:16 AM

Its unfortunate the new game engine is taking so long to get right, and has certainly garnered alot of hate. Once the game engine gets sorted everything should start falling in place and the hatred wane.

Damixu 12-24-2011 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutts (Post 372779)
Well I'm feeling pretty positive about things and I really don't see where all the negativity is coming from.

Facts....

1. We are getting a sequel, and that is a very good thing. Let's not forget how much we NEED this sim to live on and develop...just like IL2. No one else is going to give us what we crave for with such exquisite detail.

2. CloD will continue to be patched and I'm sure some very nice improvements will arrive in short order.

3. CloD will be reborn when merged with the new title....all the new goodies will magically be available to us to use in the skies over the channel. That is fantastic news...although I didn't doubt that's the way it would be done.

4. The BoM release will be hugely popular with the home market and I'm sure many over here will snap it up too - lots of lovely ground pounding and hopefully vast areas to fly over due to the sparse object density. That's got to be a good thing for the series with a fresh cash injection to make it even better.


I really fail to see why so many are on such a downer? The game will improve and the future looks bright. Just look what they did with the sounds. Now imagine the same job applied to the graphics, FM, AI.......

What we paid for this is NOTHING, ZILCH, DIDDLY SQUAT....compared to what we willingly fork out for PC, joystick etc. Just look how much you can spend on TrackIR alone! Let's get this in perspective before ranting on like it's a defective 30 grand BMW.

Please, give the guys a break and start appreciating what we have and what they're trying to give us (if we let them). Support them. They really are on our side. I'm a programmer and I know how much blood and sweat you have to put into such complex software. It really is incredibly hard to produce something like CloD and with a community like ours it's a real thankless task.

As my favourite character would say...have a little faith baby, have a little faith.;)

This is how I see it exactly.

Consider this: What if 1C would stop the flight sim development altogether and switched to developing more mass appealing and more lucrative games partly because too demaning crowd and too niche to get moneys worth of effort.

Way I see this CloD and sequels, we are on a similiar evolving path like we had on IL-2, generally every development step forward were benefical to previous instalment of the product and completed the overall simulation to be more perfect.

1C is not the main stream "burger game" developer like Call of Duty developer with gazzillions of resources. They have to allocate the scarce resources they have to develop things which have most bang for the buck to step forward on the big picture to be more complete air warfare simulation.

I'm affaid this takes time and lot of patience on us the customers to wait the completion or even the intermediate steps to get implemented.

I wish you all very relaxing and merry X-mas!


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