The ErpGr.210 Campaign is 30 Missions long and so historic we can make in CoD

Are you somehow involved with Desastersoft?

yes, I am part of Desastersoft team

my question is:
will this expansion support future revision of game?
I mean, if CloD graphic engine will be rewrited with incoming patches, what appens to the add-on I buy today?
Thanks

People should stop complaining the world is expensive but the exception should be "them»! Other should buy their petrol at 5 euros or 8 dollars but they should buy it at one euro or 1.5 dollar. Normal the other is the other.

It is a nice campaign to play on the RAF side not easy at all very realistic the only negative point is the language but I am happy to learn there is a translation on the way in September.
:-D

yes, of course, we have an automatic updater, when we fix some bugs in our missions, or a IL2CoD patch bring news we will update the Add-on, you must only klick on your Desastersoft Updater icon.

Fine, thanks

Hey there NSU, great to have you here. The e-mails I have been getting came from Hamburg. Wow you are quite far away from there in Heidelberg.

I am sure the community very much appreciates it if you would be willing to answer the occasional question here or there. I am just waiting for the download version to come out :grin:.

Viele Gruesse nach Heidelberg.

some questions then, please:

- when the english download version should be expected (beginning/mid/end september)?
- what would be the approx price range for the downloadable version?
- will the english version offer an option to switch between german/english custom in-game sound files (or it won't have enlish versions of them at all/or they will all be in english)?

hi adonys

1. We think September 15th
2. 20 €
3. On German Side, custom Voice is German, on RAF Side it is english, the Voices are also in as written HUD Message

thank you!

Today I received my copy from amazon. Install went like a breeze, did an update for the campaign addon immediatly after installing using the built in updater.

Started the ErpGr.210 Campaign and found 2 minor inconvienences in the very first mission:

* only the left fuel tanks are full, right side is empty, nothing about that in the briefing. Maybe you could add it, so people know they have to trim the plane before takeoff.

* Whatever the reason the mission fails, it always says you missed the target, even if it was annihilated like it was in my case and I (only) damaged the plane trying to park it inside a hangar.

They will help you!
 

@tintifaxl

I heard about that bugs before, but forgot where I found the solution(there is one).

Write an E-Mail to desastersoft. I am almost sure they will help you. From the German forums I know that they are doing great support to the customer!

@tintifaxl

ok my english is not the best, but i will here answer you.

for the fuel tanks problem:
please see the pictures, the tow front tanks are full the rear tanks are empty, so it is ok
the briefing (instruction) is for the Jagdbomber group, the ground crew give the pilot feedback for the plane so he know what for Petrol and weapons are loaded.

"Whatever the reason the mission fails, it always says you missed the target, even if it was annihilated like it was in my case and I (only) damaged the plane trying to park it inside a hangar."


hmmm, i think you mean the part from the Desastersoft programm, this is a shooting report in the end from the mission, ok in this campaign you are a Jagdbomber, so you must bombing your targets and sometime you get the order to shoot down the enemy fighters.
This is a new and nice addition from the Desastersoft programmer and this make the missions a little dynamic and exciting, i am sure you like it.

see this pictures so it is ok:
when you bomb the target you get a feedback from a text and a voices (radio call) so you win the mission

i hope you understand my report and it help you.

Danke für die Infos. Also bei mir hat das nicht ganz so geklappt. Im Debriefing wird der LKW zwar als zerstört angezeigt - leider habe ich keinen Funkspruch erhalten oder den Text gesehen.

Muss man vielleicht auch alle Wegpunkte vorher korrekt anfliegen?

Das mit den Teibstofftanks muss ich noch ansehen, aber die Kiste ist bei mir sofort nach dem Abheben extrem nach links abgeschmiert und das mit vollem rechten Ruder. Aber Dein Screenshot zeigt auf jeden Fall eine austarierte Zuladung.

Lots of german speak here guys, I know - it's just a rehash what happened to me in the mission - please forgive me :cool:

ok try to bombing the truck, maybe he was not 100% destroyed.
(du kannst auch im deutschen IL2CoD UBI Forum deine Fragen stellen, in deutsch kann ich besser antworten)

Ok. Discussion continues here: http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/...4/m/8361041349

in german :confused:

no, only his problem :)

Yes, that's the point of it. We wanted to continue the discussion about that particular problem in german and I didn't want to clutter this forum with it.

Just write your question in english. I think that will be no problem there ;)

Cool things I spotted :cool:

- The airfields are alive and packed with objects.

- After reflying the first mission of the BF-110 campaign for the 4th or 5th time (you can't practice bombing enough ;-)) I suddenly realized the vehicle driving away from the plane is actually an empty bomb towing crawler, that had to be the vehicle that had transported the bombs I was carrying to my plane.

- On the second mission you overfly the training ground again and in the middle of it sits the smoking wreck of the truck you had to destroy in the first mission.

Sadly I have only time for one mission a day, so my progress is slow

so, it's already 16th september. any news regarding the english downloadable version of this?

I wanna know to. I'm ready to hip fire my wallet!

I had a look yesterday on the HP of Desastersoft that says nothing about a Download of the Expansion....All we can do, and we`re very good in that, is waiting!

Cheers!

The English translation is "work in progress"
and note, i do not make the translate ;)

Hey

They probably also wait for the patch to become a full patch so they can fix bugs that are happening because of the patch.

Last time you said 15th sept.. can you please give us a new estimate?

thank you!

As I do own a copy of the Desastersoft expansion (Wick vs. Dundas) I can recommend that type of software. Very well designed mission´s, good gameplay and very accurate briefings. (photos of objective inclusive for fighter bomber missions.)
The expansion consists of six campaigns:
1.) Fighter campaign -Helmut Wick
2.) Fighter campaign -lone wolf- featering Kanalkampf of 3.JG2 "Richthofen"
3.) Fighter bomber campaign -Erprobungsgruppe 210 (BF 110)
4.) Fighter campaign -J.C. Dundas
5.) Fighter campaign - No 609 Squadron -Spitfire--
6.) Fighter campaign - No 111 Squadron -Hurricane--

All campaigns mentioned above exist for strong systems and low powered systems. According to the developers statement the english version is still work in progress. I have no info when it´s done. Sorry for that. For the german fighter campaigns the BF 109 E3 is the aircraft beeing used. As soon as the next patch will be released the E3 will be changed into E4. Enjoy

Hi adonys

We got some Problems with the guys who did the Translation. They did not make their Job correct. So we had to search for an alternate Translator. We do official information on our HP, when we are close to ready (Beta Testing is needed, because of CS Files).

Ok, Thank you!

I can participate in beta too, if you need more people for it.

the Team work for a new menu layout, so we have more place for future add-ons.
please see pictures:

http://www.desastersoft.com/images_e...astersoft1.jpg

http://www.desastersoft.com/images_e...astersoft2.jpg

the english translate for the Add-on 1, is still in work.

When you buy this product please keep in mind that the handbook that comes along with it contains some pages on the history of world war II that I personally find extremely impalatable. As it is written in the text it equates revisionistic view imho.

The text says that before the war, Poland was considered a rogue state by Britain and in the text thus suggesting that attacking Poland was ok. I think this is outrageous.

It further says that annecting parts of Checkoslovakia was an injustice but then relativates it by saying that Britain had done similar things.

The textbook says that Hitler just wanted to re-establish the German borders to the situation pre-1914 neglecting all the "Lebensraum" politics propagated by Hitler.

This textbook goes on in this tone. It is imho basically suggested that WW2 was not Germany's fault or at least there had been some justifications for it. As if one injustice justifies another one ...

I think you should consider this before you go to buy this. Unfortunately I did, not being aware of this kind of message that comes along with the addon.

That was the final nail to convince me im not buying it.
Glad i read that anyhow as it slapped me back to reality, If i buy this, im paying for things that get added on top of broken code, goes against my logic.

You can look at it as role-play nazi propaganda, which I'm sure it is what actally it really is.

Things is.. there re some voices stating some alternative history unorthodox claims regrading how and why WW2 started.. and what do you know, they might even be right with one or two things..

At the moment some might claim you to be defending nazism and the german state in the 30's & 40's.
I'm sure your not but in this politically correct "george orwell" nightmare world we live in we have to word oursleves very carefully.

oh Boy`s
many english and US IL2 Pilots fly the german Plans with historic markings, when a german player make this so he is a Nazi!!!

What i will say, this handbook will show you how the german think when they beginn the war with england, why they fight with them.

And note this is a Game Add-on and yes a WWII game, you be a Nazi when you play the german side?

Please go study some semantics, NSU.

The text is titled as "Historic background" and NOT: "How Germans believed at that time how WW2 started". And even if it had been labelled in this manner it is the minimum that a historic and factual text was put aside it.

As it is written it is a (fortunately still) marginal and queer and imho outrageous way of seeing things presented in a manner as if it was some historic account like any else. Imho it equates definitely to propaganda. Anyhow this kind of opinions whatever one might think about it has no place in a handbook of a game or an addon.

I now remember that once Desastersoft made itself speak of it in a similar way. I should have remembered that before buying it.

Yes "Historic background" for the Game, all my Briefings are write like Luftwaffe 1940 without any discrimination!

The handbook (i do nou write it), the Briefings and all pictures are controlled by USK Nr.:30974/11
they find NO problems, so the Desastersoft product is OK for me.

when you have a problem with the handbook, put it in the drawer and play the game :)

Personally, I think it's "poor form" to criticize a non-native speaker's language skills. He's trying to communicate on this forum as best he can (and I think his point's perfectly comprehensible.)

I wonder how your German "semantics" is? (And I'm pretty sure you meant "syntax" :roll:)

As it is, I doubt very much this is "revisionist" history (haven't read it but still...), for goodness' sake. As he says, it's "role-playing", getting into the skin of an indoctrinated warrior for his fatherland, etc, etc.

Geez, is that so hard to understand?

For my part, I'll be very interested to see what they've achieved and if (and how) they've started to mine the deep seam of scripts and triggers (ie. Frog's and Ming's fabled ambulances) that have been built into this game.

And another thing!

I bought this company's "Fall Blau" for IL2. I thought it was (and is) outstanding value for money. After - what - nearly a decade? - I still haven't played through all the missions and campaigns in the original, let alone the free update after - erm - was it pacific battles? Lost in the mists of forgettery...

Anyway, Fall Blau was for me a vital step up from stock single player playing (so to speak) and helped me to eventually make the jump to joining a squadron and embarrassing myself online.

I'm genuinely hoping for great things from this expansion! (Don't let me down, Knabben!)

Well done Sir!
Lol!

NSU, I will definitely be purchasing this product (and flying for the British side :) ).

My criticism of language skills refered to the German handbook and NSU's interpretation of the handbook text. As NSU is fluent in German he should understand that how it is written it is definitely not in order to create some sort of "role playing feeling" nor was it marked as a description of how the German psyche was back then (please note: I don't talk about the briefings as I haven't installed the addon. I am talking about the paper handbook and the short description of historical background after their gospel). If you cannot see the difference I don't know how to explain it. Please grap the handbook and let google translate the text for you and then judge again.

BTW: I have read the text and therefore I can judge it and my judgement is that the purpose of this text in the handbook is not to put someone in a role playing mood but to relativise historic facts in favour of Germany. If it is fine for you and you still want to support these guys by buying their products ok. I for my part think that all people interested in buying this should just know what they buy so they can make a decision knowing all pros and cons. That's what this thread is about, init?

Historic Facts are not Propaganda! Maybe you should take some books about the Time from 1918-1939. The World was not Black/White. And there where many things what made the War. A Good One for you: Patrick Buchanan/ Chirchill, Hitler and the unnacessery War

Sorry for my Bad English. Wir können das ja gern im Deutschen ausdiskutieren, und zwar anhand der historischen Fakten.

From the Manual/Engl. Tanslation
Events which led to the Battle of Britain

As events in August 1939 dealing with the Free City of Danzig and the corridor separating East Prussia and Danzig from the German Reich escalated, no one anticipated that a year later a situation would unfold in which the German Reich would dominate half of Europe. How did things come to this? Indeed, many factors were involved. Firstly, there were the three dictatorships: the Soviet Union, Germany and Poland. Poland up till March 1939 was considered by the Americans and British what would today be called a “rogue nation”. Between 1918, the proclamation of the renewed Polish state, and 1938, the furthest expansion of Poland, Poland had militarily attacked all of its surrounding countries and expanded its territory at the expense of the Soviet Union, Germany, Lithuania and lastly Czechoslavakia. Poland was a bomb with many fuses and suffered from self overestimation due to its victories over the Soviet Union and German in previous years. Indeed, in October 1938 Great Britain was very close to forming an alliance against Poland.

One of Hitler's main goals was the restoration of conditions as they were in 1914. A Greater Germany bounded within the borders of German and Austria. This also included that territory which was awarded to the artificial state of Czechoslavakia in 1919. With the break-up of Czechoslavakia into Slovakia and the Czech Republik (incidentally exactly the same as today, two small European nations) he recognized the possibility of bringing this Czech region back into the Reich as the protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, as it had been for 1000 years. Anyone who says that wasn't right and Hitler should not have been allowed to do that, can be answered that this is exactly what was done by the soon to be war opponents Great Britain and France. In 1926 Great Britain annexed Egypt and made it a protectorate. India, Palastine, South Africa, Australia, indeed Britains list is long! Same with the French! So it really was not something unusual. In like manner Poland in October 1938 claimed for itself the Teschen region and the former German town of Oderberg, a not insignificant part of the Czech Republic.

Then hysteria began to break out. “Poland is going to be next” was to be heard coming from Britain. Poland itself in March 1939 mobilized against East Prussia and fired, therefore, the opening shot in the escalation towards war. In response to the mobilization of Poland the directive for “Case White”, a possible attack on Poland, was issued. Its date of issue was April 3, 1939, two weeks after the Polish mobilization. Poland dared to take this step, because Britain and France declared on March 19, 1939 an unrestricted garauntee for Polands perpetuation. In a secret amendment to this treaty it was determined that this alliance would array itself militarily against Germany. Meanwhile this pact did not direct itself against the Soviet Union. In this regard Hitler's thoughts were not without basis, that the pact was exclusively anti-German.

Please translate also the rest of it so that people can judge by themselves.

You talked about that Point i posted. Your original Statement was:

41Sqn_Stormcrow
Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 411



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When you buy this product please keep in mind that the handbook that comes along with it contains some pages on the history of world war II that I personally find extremely impalatable. As it is written in the text it equates revisionistic view imho.

The text says that before the war, Poland was considered a rogue state by Britain and in the text thus suggesting that attacking Poland was ok. I think this is outrageous.

It further says that annecting parts of Checkoslovakia was an injustice but then relativates it by saying that Britain had done similar things.

The textbook says that Hitler just wanted to re-establish the German borders to the situation pre-1914 neglecting all the "Lebensraum" politics propagated by Hitler.

This textbook goes on in this tone. It is imho basically suggested that WW2 was not Germany's fault or at least there had been some justifications for it. As if one injustice justifies another one ...

I think you should consider this before you go to buy this. Unfortunately I did, not being aware of this kind of message that comes along with the addon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And now there is the Context i posted. Sorry, but i think you try a bit bashing, Sturmkrähe!

Also Sturmkrähe, wenn Du der Meinung bist, wir, oder ich, würden "Revanchismus" betreiben, wie Du dort schreibst, und Du möchtest darüber Reden, dann solltest Du auch genügend historisches Hintergrundwissen haben. Ansonsten geht das stark in Richtung Verleumdung.

"political correctness" should be condemned, imo!
The people generally don't think political correct, why should the be forced to speak/post this way?

I was, and still I am, against Desastersoft's Il2CoD addon high price policy, but in this, I am with them.

Things were as they were, and that's called history. It's a shame in Germany there's a law prohibiting the graphical representation of swastika (which by the way, is a waaay older mystical symbol) even in historical movies or game simulators trying to represent the history of those times.

In my opinion, it has exactly the contrary effect: instead helping us to remember those times, will in fact make us forget them.. Politically correctness is a strange, stupid thing by which you impose the fears and frustrations of minorities over the majority, which is a sick and perverse thing to begin with and should in fact be forbidden!!

And lastly, it show disrespect to those people: they've fought and died for what they believed in, no matter how wrong that belief was (or wasn't).. are you ready to do the same?!!

After WWI Germany was brought on its knees, lots of its territory ripped of by its neighbors, and population was enslaved and forced to pay insane war compensations.. for the german people, WWII was a war to free themselves and get their own territory back and make things right (read it as in to obtain a fair war end deal, not the mockery which was forced on them at the end of WWII). Would you deem that as wrong?!!

robtek, the problem arises particularly when it is not apparant as an opinion but presented as facts. That is exactly the problem with the handbook. If they had written: In our opinion this happened this way or that way. But that is exactly what they did not do.

As I think you are a very intelligent guy I think you know that by omitting certain information or by using specific argumentation and phrases things can get a very different meaning and direction.

The easiest thing for them would have been to just leave out any historic background in the leaflet or referred just to a short timeline. But they decided otherwise and wrote their vision of things there in a very particular way.

Sooo....any eta on the downloadable release of the expansion? :grin:

And where is the problem with that??
The possible readers are usually mature, with a founded knowledge, and not easily swayed from their path.
At the best the readers are researching for themselves what happened, regarding to different historicans.
We have democracies here, where censorship is usually frowned upon, yet you are condemning Desastersoft for presenting a different, but quite legal, view at history.

No it didn't.

And I haven't studied European history since 6th form in the early 80's, but I still remember my history teacher (who served in the war) summarising it all as there basically being two solutions to "the German Problem" (which is that there are basically too many German speakers in Europe - so there is always going to be a structural imbalance.

There were two solutions. Bismarck tried the first: a "Klein" Deutsch solution - a small state that excluded all the bits that Hitler later tried to incorporate into his "Gross" Deutsch solution - in which all ethnic/linguistic/arian Germans would be united in his "reich". So according to my history teacher, Hitler tried the solution that Bismarck rejected. Then, of course, came the insanity.

[Another interesting take on WW2 comes from Niall Furgusson, the Scottish historian, who states convincingly that from an economic point of view, the Nazis were buggered before they began. The last thing they needed was "liebensraum". What they needed was cheap immigrant labour to support their heavy industries. (They half achieved this through slavery during the war.) They also needed markets for their goods, which war stopped. They were basically like George Osborne (or Gordon Brown). So, it was always economically inevitable that they'd lose the war.]

And where is the probleem with that??

We have democracies here, where censorship is usually frowned upon, yet you are condemning me for making public what is inside the handbook and how I interpret it?

I still think that potential buyers should be informed about what they might find inside. Then it is up to them to decide. That is what the whole thread is about. Well, at least it was until recently.

Why did that happen, oh yeah because the nation was in the directly responsible for the progression from political actions to warfare, resulting in the deaths of millions of people. Sympathy wasnt on the minds of the nations that had sacrificed millions in the conflict.

Is this view ment to be written as a characters view point? if so then its acceptable when placed as opinion.

If its placed as matter of fact history then surely its clearly untrue and quite simply an extension of what the people of Germany were told by the nazi regime to justify the taking of poland and czechoslovakia?

That was your answer to:

After WWI Germany was brought on its knees, lots of its territory ripped of by its neighbors, and population was enslaved and forced to pay insane war compensations..
written by Adonys.

Which part of that is untrue?

The French used german "slave" labour in the rhineland.
Germany lost territories, i.e. all the colonies.
Germany had to pay immense reparations.

well, actually, after a war, if you want peace and pretend you are not a slaver country, you would offer fair terms for the defeated nation to can cope with. if you offer them enslavement and death, why it seem to you so out-of-the-ordinary for the enslaved county to revolt, if they have the guts to rather prefer death to enslavement?!!

germany was offered none at the end of WWI, so it was the perfect natural thing every sane mind would have to expect from them, namely rise again in war to obtain human peace settlements..

your history learned you some things.. but what if they are not really like that?!!

here's for you some food of thought, go search the internet for information and use your own brain to try to decide which of them are looking as to have really happened:
- it seems that Poland was kind of rogue state before WWII, and was deploying concentration camps in which the german population from german territories occupied by Poland at the end of WWI was exterminated, resulting in Germany attacking Poland to stop this (should it be really a coincidence the fact that most of the german WWII concentration camps were actually situated in Poland?!!)
- Britain starting the night bombing campaign over german cities (ie civil targets), as being the only thing they could do to hurt Germany at the time, and the odious german fuhrer refusing to pay them with the same coin for more than a month or two, until it could bear it no more, and started the british cities bombing campaign (namely London).. just to have the british cry outraged to the whole world how the cruel germans were hitting their civil tragets
- Britain civil casualties for the whole WWII are like 67.000 people.. while only in the dresden the infamous allied bombing raids killed around 200000 people.. yet the german are the criminal ones
- The allied (phosphorus) bombing campaign over german civil targets in order to destroy their homes and therefore obliterate their morale and resolution to continue the war, killing german civilians in their hundreds of thousands, and obliterating most of the german cities from the face of the earth and leaving most of german population without homes was never condemned as war crimes.. yet german leaders were condemned at Nurenberg as war criminals
- Eisenhower's DEF camps a the end of the war, in which between 900000 and 1700000 german POWs were starved to their deaths
- the most incredible of them all.. until you start digging for truth..: it seems that there were no systemaic mass gas executions campaign in german concentration camps, but just allied post war victory propaganda (skeleton like humans pictures were in fact presenting typhus infected prisoners, germans actually using cyclone B gas to disinfect the clothes of the prisoners in order to stop typhus disease and fleas spreading, clothes disinfection chambers actually having metal sealing doors and gas evacuation systems, while the alleged human gas chambers were not having those, huge gas chambers output bins presented as so after the war are not appearing in allied reconnaissance photos from 1945, mass normal looking like prisoners (not starved) from german concentration camps at liberation, and so on..)

Now for this you definitely have to provide proof sources (but please none from NPD et al). My German grandparents lived in these occupied territories and they were at very good terms with their Polish neighbours. I don't say there had been no conflicts but from there to make allegations that there had been an extermination plan by Poland there is a distance larger than that from Earth to Mars.

So basically it was in some sort of "allied death camps" that one fifth of all military death in Germany were killed? Doesn't sound very realistic ...

All readers please beware: The source of this number of dead at Dresden is no one less than Goebbels himself. Serious historians concord that it was less. It does not make wrong or right the bombing which is another debate. What I find here very much debatable though is that some want to relativise by comparing numbers of dead which does absolute dishonour to the dead on both sides. I refute this kind of approach.

This is Holocaus denial and some more revisionist crap usually coming from neonazis or the Iranian government ...
And of course the thousands of survivors and witnesses that had gone through the Shoah were all bought by MI6 and CIA. Some tattooed themselves etc. What utter crap. You probably also believe that man had never been on the Moon or the Americans were behind 9/11.


I am really speechless what I have to read. Well, some show their true colours at last.

seeking for truth doesn't make you have colors, sir.

Eisenhower's DEF.. official Wikipedia link..

"Disarmed Enemy Forces (DEF), and—less commonly[1]—Surrendered Enemy Forces, was a U.S. designation, both for soldiers who surrendered to an adversary after hostilities ended, and for those previously surrendered POWs who were held in camps in occupied German territory at that time.[2] It is mainly referenced to Dwight D. Eisenhower's designation of German prisoners in post World War II occupied Germany.[3] Because of the logistical impossibility of feeding millions of surrendered German soldiers at the levels required by the Geneva Convention during the food crisis of 1945, the purpose of the designation—along with the British designation of Surrendered Enemy Personnel (SEP)—was to prevent categorization of the prisoners as Prisoners of War (POW) under the 1929 Geneva Convention"..

"After the DEF designations were made in the early summer of 1945, the International Red Cross was not permitted to fully involve itself in the situation in camps containing German prisoners (POWs, DEFs or SEPs), some of which initially were Rheinwiesenlager transit camps, and even though conditions in them gradually improved, "even the most conservative estimates put the death toll in French camps alone at over 16,500 in 1945""

"Most captives of the Americans and the British were released by the end of 1948, and most of those in French and Soviet captivity were released by the end of 1949, although the last big release occurred in 1956. According to the section of the German Red Cross dealing with tracing the captives, the ultimate fate of 1,300,000 German POW's in Allied custody is still unknown; they are still officially listed as missing.[41]"

they were thought during the following 50 years to be lost to the russians.. but.. recently russians opened their WWII camp prisoner files, and those were not in there..
and don't even try to say russian were trying to hide this number, as they haven't tried to hide all the others which were really attributed to them neither..

or is the german post-war red cross nazi-colored (as you imply by your words) to you too?!!


Yes, the 200.000 killed in dresden is a german WWII official casualty tall (though your Goebells naming of it is tendentious). the official allied post war one is around 25.000.. yet even 25k is more than 1/3 from the WHOLE british WWII civil casualties.. in a single bombing raid over a single german town..

Readers beware: go read official wikipedia "RAF strategic bombing during the Second World War" and the whole World War II city bombing.. a few allied "humanitarian" bombings: Tokio (march 1945 100k people died in a single allied firebombing), Hiroshima & Nagasaki (90,000–166,000 killed in Hiroshima, 60,000–80,000 killed in Nagasaki), Hamburg, (read the allied name of this operation, ie a biblical city name obliterated with all its inhabitants by God's wrath! "killing 42,600 civilians and wounding 37,000 in Hamburg and practically destroying the entire city. The unusually warm weather and good conditions meant that the bombing was highly concentrated around the intended targets and also created a vortex and whirling updraft of super-heated air which created a 1,500-foot-high tornado of fire, a totally unexpected effect"), Dresden (25k) and so on..


also, you seem to overlook the words I've used when presenting those of the points which are still in debate (for example "it seems that there was no systematic mass gas executions campaign in german concentration camps..")

everyone knows that history is written by the victors.. the whole human history is filled up with this.. but that doesn't mean bits f truth can not be surfaced, or that we should not try to ever find them..

I just presented those as food for thought and personal investigation.. have you done this? or it is just your "history" outrage talking for you?

I think you made it very clear to the readers of this forum what kind of thinking you follow.

For those interested to this >1 Mio prisonners were starved to death by Western allied. This is a hypothesis published by Mr. Bacque in a book repeatedly refuted by recognized historians. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Losses

I think I do not need to link anything about Shoah, as there can be no doubt that there had been a huge extermination plan put into action killing millions by Germany at that time.

of course they were "refuted" by "recognized historians".. again, always history is written by the victors.

here's a link regarding the pre-WWII polish atrocities: Polish Atrocities against the German minority in Poland pre-WWII, and another one regarding general WWII atrocities.

it's a theory, which most probably will never be proved, even if it might be real. but you can try to read, and make some personal opinion about it.

also, your attitude, tone and implies are disturbing: I am no nazi, and have nothing to do with them. I do not think that german race is a superior race, and everyone else should go to dirt. I'm not even a german for that!

I do not believe nazis and germans were angels, and haven't committed atrocities during WWII, but I also do not believe the allies to be the divine peace messengers they were posing into.. each nation has his own scum, sick people enjoying doing bad things on other people, and unfortunately those are the real culprits for these.

I just want to know the truth, not just blindly accept propaganda, no matter which color or side that propaganda is. I want to ask questions and learn to use my brain, not sheepingly accept everything others want me to believe is the truth.

You should also post the line above the mentioned article:

Unbalanced scales.svg
The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (January 2009)

For Clearence:
The German Historian Commission who stated, that at Dresden where killed "only 25.000" Citizens, was not an independend Commission!

The "Body Count" was made by the "Books of Dead" of Dresden in 1945.
Stormcrow, if you set this Equal to Auschwitz, than you will find out what Number of killed People?
To help you out: The Soviet Army set the Body Count by Books of Dead to 74.000 People. Do you now believe, that only 74.000 People died in Auschwitz? In 1945 the international Red Cross numbered the Cassulties in Dresden by 220.000 People (aafter the War).
Dr. Goebbels personal Diary (i am owning a complete Edition) is talkíng about some between 250.000 - 200.000 People by the Statement of the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (German military High Command). This was not used in Propaganda, just to say it, its the private Diary.

If you do body count, please do it in the same way to all war opponents. Just for fairness ;).

Germany was treated so badly after WW1 cos guess what they started a war that virtually destroyed Europe, and add to it they displayed many times (like in WW2) tutonic brutality towards anyone civilians included.

Germany Bombed London by mistake when a He111 got lost. The RAF retailiated and bombed Berlin. Georing being the hot head that he was retaliated with mass raids on London. Thus starting the Blitz of London.

So what if you have rouge states that do bad things, is that the excuse to start world war 2 and destory Millions of lives including Germans?

You cannot justify in any shape or form what Nazisim did in Europe or to the Jewish people anymore than i cannot justify what bomber command did to dresden, but the difference is i can say it would never have happened in Hitler and others had not invaded poland etc.

Its clear you are a holocaust denier, even though your up against an insurmountable amount of evidence.

Dude you will not make me feel sorry for the people in Germany who perpertrated such evil.

I cannot believe I am actually reading this. :shock: You sound like the people who lived next door to Belsen and pretended they had no idea.

Believe me I understand a thing or two about warfare and know bad stuff happens on both sides, but you are living a fantasy if you think the treaty was unnecessarily harsh.

here you lost it :rolleyes:

Maximus, if you talk so, you should tell both sides of the Medal:
Germany did not beginn WW I!

Austria Decleared War to Serbia for the killing of Prince Ferdinand in Sarajevo.
Russia Decleared War to Austria for the Alliance with Serbia
Germany Decleared War to Russia, if they wont Reinforce the Russian German Boarder. Same to France, if France will not reinforce the Boarder. (Demobilisation). Both Countrys, Russia and France, did not take away the Troops from the German Boarder.
At August 1st Russian Troops do the First Attack in World War I to East Prussia.
Britain Decleared War to Germany because of the War between France and Germany and the German invasion to Belgium, what was a follow of the Conflict between Britain and Germany to guarant the Belgium Boarder by all Partys. Britain did not. So Germany did not. Only France did.

That is the Line of the Beginning of the World War I.

Another Point where you are wrong: RAF did the First attacks on Germany in March 1940. Targets where Collon, Essen, and Dortmund. Targetting only Civil Buildings.

Another point is: Why do you think World War II started at September 1st 1939??? This was not the Date where World War II started. At this time it was only the conflict between Poland/Britain and France and on the ohter Side Germany and the Soviet Union. (Yes Sir, Germany and SU where allied at this Time). This was till December 1941 (at latest) an european (hot) War.

Not interested in discussing any further mate count me out.

@ Pupo, by people i ment the Nazis.

Well, body count was begun by adonys, someone with more than questionable hypothesises ...

... and you continue. Speaks louder than words.

Okay, if i call you for fair Statement, i am the Bad Guy :grin:... LOL...

You are one of those Persons, what never made any historical research but talking about others. Do one Time an independent historical research about the Time between the Wars. If you do not have the ability about the Matirial, i will help you out, just ask and stop blaming, please.

your WWI history seems to be a "little" bit hazy at least.. WWII one too, for one claiming he knows and understands WWII warfare..

RAF bomber command started bombing german cities way before battle of britain or london's blitz.. and in your vision, the berlin bombing night raid was a proper response justified by the criminal action of the lost ju88 who dropped his bombs to escape some british fighters' attack (it was a ju88 actually commanded by commanded by major Rudolf Hallensleben, not a he111; and it was the infuriated Hitler the one ordering Luftwaffe to start bombing London and british civilian targets, not Goering).. interesting..

"RAF Bomber Command's policy in particular would attempt to achieve victory through the destruction of civilian will, communications and industry.. Contrary to popular belief, the Luftwaffe did not have a systematic policy of what became known as "terror bombing". Evidence suggests that not until 1942 did the Luftwaffe adopt an official bombing policy in which civilians became the primary target." wiki quote..

read here.. The Blitz..

A Short developement update about Gameplay:

Dimitri was hard working on the new ingame style. Christian made Ranks and Medals (very good looking!) close to ready, but WIP yet. In between the next two weeks the Database with the Gaming System will be implemented to the Desastersoft Add On Structure. Planed is, that for every option in the difficulty settings, that will be diabled, you have to do 25% more work to get medals or promotion. The Gameplay is based on "Dead is Dead" anyway. Be sure, POW and MIA is also implemented ;).

http://www.desastersoft.com/images_ext/01.jpg

http://www.desastersoft.com/images_ext/02.jpg

http://www.desastersoft.com/images_ext/03.jpg

Wow, I guess I'll wait for that and the CloD patch before starting the Wick campaign. That campaign system is what I had expected to be included in the initial release of CloD. And now a third party delivers. Thank you guys!

Suggestion: make the Dead is Dead feature an option, when starting the campaign. Which difficulty settings affect the work load? As the clouds eat up much resources, I wouldn't like to have this counting too.

any word regarding the english version, please?

English translation is still WIP, we have many Briefings, in Game Text and Handbook to translate, this need some time, sorry

a question then..

can you ask if you can offer the holders of the german version of this addon a free access to the future-to-be-ready english translation, please?

because it means one can play with the german one until the english one is ready, without having to pay twice for it..

no, the english version is separate, so no english update for german version.

I have it since two days after the official release and it is a good quality raf Campaigns Idid not try the German ones the only critic I have it is all in German but I did know it when I did buy it! Othershise there are regulare updates and no big problems in the in game scenarios. I like it.:grin:

Thanks for that, Senseispcc. I'll have to keep checking this forum and SimHQ for some of your excellent screenshots in this Campaign! :)

I plan to order the English version when released. Hopefully there'll be a downloadable version!

While I'm with you on the WWII business, I think Gerbil's assessment of WWI isn't incorrect. Germany was indeed suffering after WWI -- everyone was, but they the worst (due to reparations, immense limitations, and Europe's effect of America's Great Depression). Also, it's well documented that in both world wars there was a difference in military thinking between the Brits, French, Americans, Germans, Japanese, Italians, everyone. The Germans consistently displayed their fondness for strict discipline, complete hierarchical command, and tactical coolness (meaning that if this bad thing needed to be done in order to allow this good thing to happen, so bet it).

I'm not saying that there isn't any cross pollination between the thinking of any of the involved nations, I'm also not trying to pick a fight, I'm just saying the guy wasn't all that far off.

As for the stray Heinkel, yeah, I'm with you on that. Not how the capital city bombing campaigns started.

EDIT: I'm also coming in late to this post, so don't take this as me trying to rile anyone up, honestly. I also don't know if Gerbil was listing those reasons as "why WWII started". Oh God, please don't flame me.

Nice update, hoping for the english downloadable version soon, but by all means take your time to get it right :grin:.

here a small update for the Medals:

http://www.desastersoft.com/images_ext/O_01.jpg
http://www.desastersoft.com/images_ext/O_02.jpg

It's 15th Oct already'. Do you guys have any news/ETA regarding the english version for this, please?!!

@ adonys
regarding post 158 i think, what sources you can provide?

Search the net for sources.

And you can start by reading this, for example. Actually, all of you should really read it..

The Origins of the Second World War [A.J.P. Taylor]: wikipaedia, google books

Oh my lord...a holocaust denier? Wow...
I'll agree that there is no one more responsible for WW2 than Clemenceau, but the rest of that post is filled with misinformation typically associated with white supremecy groups.

Adonys I'm betting you have a copy of "The protocols of the elders of Zion" in your nightstand.

so wait, after ww1 the allies subjugate germany (this is actually a fact, let's start within the realms of reason after all), and that justifies them setting up concentration camps, where people weren't actually systematically exterminated at all?

wow.

guys, don't read more than I've wrote..

I don't have that book, and I even not read it yet. and I do not deny the holocaust, and I will not deny it until it is proved that it actually wasn't such a thing, I just said that a deeper look seems to be needed in it, that's all. you agree that looking for what really happened, searching for the truth, no matter which that truth is, is a desirable and moral quest, right? and is the base of history science, this search, record and preserve of the actual facts and truth, and not of any kind of propaganda rubbish.. and if the result is that something like holocaust wasn't really happening, they I'll always prefer the truth, than "cool" and easy believes.

concentration camps used for extermination (not simple concentration camps), are horrible, no matter who were the ones using them (and that include american concentration camps used for extermination, or the soviet ones). there's no justification for such a thing.

and please don't hijack this thread, it does not deserve it. it had enough of that until now.

I'd like to know as well, the english downloadable version that is.
1 Is it going to be available at all?
2 As asked, an eta?

Thanks for any updates on this :grin:.

Harebrained reasoning!

During my education history of my country(poLand) was rewritten 3 times, so all history science and documents and etc. depend on political options that are in charge... What I have learned from history lessons is...don't trust any history book or historian from your own country, learn history of other countries so You can compare knowledge and eventually compare it...

They've updated the campaign with patch 2 for the new IL2CoD v1.05.15950, adding the E4.

no word on the english version thought.. :(

Edit : was offtopic

Lol!
Sorry but who the heck are you?

hi all
here a Update from Desastersoft for the Career and medal system

http://www.desastersoft.com/images_ext/Akte.jpg

Features of Career System:

Earn Medals by destroying enemy Aircraft, Ground Targets or an combination of both
Earn Ranks by Points. Every destroyed Target gives Points, but most points you get for accomplished Missions
Click on Pilot Photo and select own from any Place of your Hard Disk.
Click on Medal and you get a larger Picture on the left and a statement, for what you get the Medal, on the right



http://www.desastersoft.com/images_ext/Bildauswahl.jpg

All this is based on an own Database and based on "Streak". If you die, you have to begin again from Mission 1. DiD.

http://www.desastersoft.com/images_ext/Orden.jpg
the team work for a english translate, it come out when all is ready (sorry it need some time)

here two sample videos from the Erpr.Gr.210 Campaign (older Desastersoft Version)

Mission1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs_lVD85tEU

Mission7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szx5lfFFeg4

No english translation possible for Wick vs. Dundas
 

Hello Folks!

Sorry, but we have been fooled twice by Translators for Wick vs. Dundas. Now we must make a cut, because it is too expensive and we do not think that there are enough customers that want to by this expansion. The Sales figures will not cover the costs.
So the Add On will be available in German only as Boxed Version.

Sorry, but thats fact.
Cheers
Thomas

Well i guess that is bad news.. BUT let this be a warning to you sir ! That the English community in this type of product IS very high. And if you don't cater for both sides of the fence then you wont get ANY interest at all.. Those are the Facts.. As you say !
And if you don't wish to do a English version, then how do you know what the sales won't be? Sounds to me that it basically comes down to not wishing to do it properly in the 1st place, or it would've been more excitable on you're part. Pity really. If there were to be a English version, i probably would a purchased it!

Desatersoft have been around for a while and are more than capable of determining their market and performing a cost/benifit analysis for their products. They are in a better position than any of us to determine if they will make a profit or not.

just offer a free version of the pack to whoever translates it to english. everyone will be happy then

Great :(

So that is it for me and others in NA then as far as the expansion is concerned. Even if we were willing to get the german version (not sure if it is compatible with the english version of the sim) Desastersoft does not have NA as a shipping location in it's store.

Been waiting obviously for the english downloadable version.