Salute to you sirs you certainly brightened my day. ;)

This brings back memories... :rolleyes:

1C are communicating, far more often then other video games I saw. And I saw many of them.

For a product aimed at a niche market in the simulation world, communication in the recent weeks/months has really slumped. Look at the communcation for, say, RoF (don't flame me for this example).
Some may say that we're lucky members of the team are willing to talk at all, but clearly they need our help in polishing the product, so realistically it is to be expected.

It's apples and oranges, really. Find a similar simulation game in the same state as CloD and let's see if the dev team for that are communcating. There isn't really anything suitable to compare to.

RoF team does not have a publisher like UBI or EA which keeps all marketing budget for themselves. Thus they can spend their marketing budget on communication.

When MG becomes an independent studio and you pay them directly you would get same level of communication.

So it would cost 1C money to get any dev to jump on the net and make a quick 5min post once a week, they managed it when they were telling us how uber the game is so we would buy it.

Car Guy & Atros, personally I think you guys are in denial. I really do. And i hope you guys get it that the more you do deny the obvious the more people will turn pessamistic about this situation as it will clearly become obvious that you are denying the facts.

Rubbish, ROF just has a team that speaks to its community.

Jason from 777 takes time each DAY to talk and answer questions.

Whatever. You seem to ignore the obvious - that broad dev team - user communication is an exception, not the rule.

Great, so we have a half finished sim and a developer that isn't communicating.

I cant wait to spend my money on their next product.

I have always said as such. But it's their product, and within their interest to ensure interest in the product is maintained and that the users are happy

Phil you cant convince someone in denial, they have to see it for themselves

No, I think you're correct mate. Must be some kind of language difficulty, on his part, or something.

I think it goes beyond it, there are people who deny the truth in the hopes that fixes will correct the problems.
There are people who are pessamistic and moan in the hope that the problems will be fixed and then there are people who are optimistic that the fixes will be made.

But ALL have love and passion for the subject, apart from the denialists who never truely have. Its something the optimists loose and the pessamists dont ever because they excepted the logic of loss.

And none of the above should be told to not express their own views.

Its not so much the expression of oppinions but the incessent repeating of oppinions that cause the friction.

well thats what denialists do so they dont have to face what they run from :(

Exactly......everybody is wrong.

Yep, and we all should be flying instead of posting a load of toss(all of us) :)

HAHA Whata we do with witches...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

The fact is there was some communication and now there is less communication. The rest is our perception and judgment that depends only on our attitude and character, personality. Facts do not have any emotional aspect in them. Perception and judgment are not the facts.

The problem is that you and many others are trying to find the most insulting interpretation to the facts as in the quoted example. The same happens to the fact that European release happened in March, then to the fact that there are many bugs in game and to any other fact being discussed here. If you want to be insulting do not expect people to talk to you again.

Developers had some goodwill to communicate on these forums however they did not have to and instead of the fact they did not have time to. But any facts they provided were interpreted negatively.

1C international forums were created to support other games for which 1C is an international publisher. CloD section is a free bonus and compliment to ungrateful community. I am sure UBI does not pay for it. I am 99% sure there were talks about UBI covering costs of a community manager but as we can see nothing happened.

Could you please specify what I am denying when you say I am in denial and quote where I am denying it?

Exactly. This is what I am talking about. 777 is the publisher for RoF developed by Gennadich team and then neoQb team. This is 777's job to talk to customers and customers pay them for this.

When you pay for a game a good percentage of the amount goes to the publisher to cover printing costs, marketing, communication and support costs and investment risks. In case of CloD it went to UBI. In case of RoF it went to 777. You can not hire a communication manager when communication budget belongs to another company. This is how business works.

Denying this is what I call being in denial and wishful thinking. LOL

ps. The above only proves that luthier does not have an obligation to post here every Friday. He had goodwill to do so in the past but you paid for his goodwill by comparing his team to team of monkeys (just as example) and interpreting facts in the most insulting way possible. This fact alone would be enough to cut off his goodwill for some months.

He could, yes.
But it would prob mean going out of business.

Woah, Ataros!

That was one member of the forum.

I've been known to be negative myself, but this is largely due to a feeling of being ignored. There is no need to imply that all members of this forum are as crass as others.

A simple 'Hi blokes, how's it going?' from anyone at 1C Maddox would put down a lot of the negativity, including mine. 'It doesn't take much effort', is all the members are saying (sorry if i'm being presumptive here), and it doesn't.

Give it up dutch, this guy has no idea where people are coming from.

Apparently now if you have a problem with the game and you voice your concern and no-one answers, thats because we are insinuating that the dev team are primates, is that right ataros? Dont even bother to answer that one cos I give up mate.

If about seven people in this thread can spell it out to you and you still dont get what people are saying about dialog and communication and want to pretend we are "trying to find the most insulting interpretation to the facts" just because someone else was insulting devs or what ever then fine mate, group me with the idiots i dont really care quite frankly.
The internet gives the world a voice mate. Not all of them you will like or like what they want to say, but they will say it non the less.

"He had goodwill to do so in the past but you paid for his goodwill by comparing his team to team of monkeys (just as example) and interpreting facts in the most insulting way possible. This fact alone would be enough to cut off his goodwill for some months"

So is this FACT that because 1 person made derogatory remarks and the whole forum including yourself should have information witheld from them or is this you again attributing the silence in the most insulting way possible towards people who feel unhappy with the lack of communication. Get my drift.

I do agree with you that more updates would be good for everyone. But 'Hi blokes, how's it going?' would probably be not enough as the latest update with pictures attracted a lot of negative reaction. Thus there is no point in these 'relationship building' updates.

I think ZaltisZ knows what he is talking about regarding small updates as he works in the dev industry http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...4&postcount=52
Thus there is no points in small updates.

In case the devs would have achieved a milestone by now there would be a beta patch available already and there would no be need for an update.

Everything important was said in the last update (e.g. regarding sound issue). There is no point to repeat it.

I do agree with you that more updates would be good for everyone. My point is people can not demand or expect an update as if it was obligatory and get emotionally unstable and insulting if they do not get it especially on these forums (not publisher's) and especially after insulting the devs. That is why I wrote my 1st message about it saying "Do not be surprised if we get only official updates at UBI and Steam."

If anyone would ask for my opinion why we do not hear from luthier I would guess that they are working night and day again to meet the US release deadline but they are not on time and having major 'negotiations' with UBI about it, which may influence the future of the project much more than Friday updates. Do not be surprised if the project would be closed one day and then resurrected in 3-5 years as independent studio like it happened with BIS Studio (ArmA 2) when they separated with EA (iirc). Only my speculations of cause.

@BigPickle
Your post is negative again and not constructive imo. Just remembered it was you with negative comments on RBflight's sound mod here without a valid reason. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...45&postcount=6

I agree on everything apart from this, and this is exactly what I'm trying to say, thats exactly what i needed here. More of the above. I found the last update to be the best in honesty we have had since the game launched.
~Also who keeps getting emotionally unstable and insulting, maybe i miss these things but i dont see that happening. I see plenty of ppl getting anoyed and frustrated but that is to be expected as they are playing a broken game as best they can, and not wanting to give up on it.
I know its just your speculation at the end there but dont you think the customers deserve to know as soon as if that was going to happen, dont you see thats the customers fear that might happen at the moment, Again another argument for or against communication i guess.

Sorry, you're correct, that's just my sense of humour which probably doesn't translate too well. If he asked that question, I dread to think of the responses.:)

I of course didn't mean that he should ask that question literally, but a simple message of progress posted on a closed thread would be enough.

'This is what we're working on, this is how far we've got' would be what I'd be happy with, unless it read 'Well we're working on this, but we're not getting anywhere', which of course would be counter-productive.

The lack of any kind of feedback results in some members assuming that the latter is the case. (sorry, presumption again).

it's only been 2 weeks since the last 'hi folks' from the devs, and it was more than just a 'hi folks' at that, has everyone missed the point that the meet the team was also a progress update of sorts, the devs made it clear a while ago that the sound is a big issue they are dealing with and 'hey presto' theres a new sound guy working on it....pictures and all, the devs also made it clear some elements bugs a buried deeeeep in the code, I am not a programmer but I know this has to take time to sort out, just 2 weeks later and this place descends into chaos with conspiracies and rumour????????????

Agreed, whether or not they say anything we know that an update is in the works and that they are (presumably) working against the clock to have more bugs fixed before the North American release.

'whatevva!'

'yeah but not but luthier says that oleg said that ...'

You been watching Little Britain Bongo :)

Its really very simple and shouldn't have needed reams of "for and against" posts never mind insults etc..

We have paid for a game that doesn't work properly.
We are entitled to be told on a regular basis how rectification of our faulty goods is going.
Its not hard to give a weekly or fortnightly summary update off the back of their own progress reporting which we can only hope is happening in their world of programme management.

Thats it in a nutshell. Their complete silence just shows that its all about the money they really dont give a rats ass once they have got your dollar.

Dunno about going that far Crane but thats why i wrote this ..

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24550

Actually I don't think that's true and lets face it they haven't taken many dollars on this yet.

If we consider why they aren't keeping us up to date more often then it could be:

1. They have simply decided on slower, perhaps 'milestone' releases of info (completion of significant objectives), which may not please many of us here and IMHO is not the right way, I'd like progress tracking so that I know how long it might take to fix my faulty goods.
2. They are sick of the rhetoric their info updates produce and are avoiding them as much as possible but I think they are thicker skinned than that.
3. They are not the slick organisation we hope they are and have taken their eye off this paticular ball.
4. They are not the slick organisation we need them to be and are stumbling around without proper direction.

Personally I think it's #1 which is a great shame.

4

And another pointless snide remark towards the people which are working to solve the problems.

get over yourself, its called a opinion...who the feck are you? the forum police?

Have a look at the state of the sim after 4 months and 4 patches.

We could assume that everybody posting here does look at the sim, and not everybody has the same problems, I for one have had no major issues with it, exept the initial FPS issue it has worked from day 1, and each patch has improved it....for me. just because your toy is brokend you want to stop everyone elses fun?

No...im happy your enjoying it bongo i really am, i wish i could enjoy it.
Im also happy for you to post your views, good or bad. where have i ever said that people cant enjoy it or post that they enjoy it?

Well there has been this culture for anybody reluctant to join in on the 'criticism' bandwagon to be labelled as sychophantic 'fanbois' who are in denial...

Maybe some have, i never have.
To me the whole development of COD has been a shambles, without direction or someone in proper charge right from the very start.

The way the release was handled says it all about COD.
Its such a pity for all of us, me? im gutted and so disappointed like you just wouldn't believe Bongo, and maybe that's why i do get so heated about COD.

If in 6 months COD has grown into what will all want it to be then i will be the first on here to clap and cheer for the devs and hail Luthier as a genius.

Until then i will post my views good or bad. and i would expect you and everyone else to be able to do the same.

It's hard to keep track of who said what nowadays, but I didn't point the finger at you particularily, but don't forget an oppinion is just that, they are often based on a smaller picture...narrower viewpoint if you like, this applies to both camps, can you at least see that any oppinion when repeated enough will serve nothing more than to irritate other some forum users and do nothing towards 'punishing' the true intended victim (1c, Ubi, Luthier or whoever), we all know that this game has 'problems'.

I really still stand by the idea of a separate venting corner for the dissatisfied, it's clear that alot of people just need to let the hate flow, at least then people can have some threads that don't descent into 'tit for tat'

It could just be possible that the developers have more than one computer to run the game on and that those computers have various specs and they are busy running CloD on those computers and they are getting the same bugs as everyone else and doing all they can to nail them as fast as possible giving priority to the most serious. I am sure they check the forums from time to time but if a bug is a bug then they have it as well. They have posted progress updates and put out patches but if it was me and I just got the same old moans and complaints then I would rather just get on and fix stuff properly and not get so involved with the hardcore of people who think they know more and are cleverer than the actual developers who have full access to all the code and indeed wrote it in the first place. And why should they accept 'help' from people outside their team when they would like as not crow on the forums that they single handedly saved Clod because the developers weren't up to it.

The real nitty gritty problems have already been acknowledged by Luthier and solutions are being put in place. A real contrast to the people who are endlessly bleating on about how they are dissatisfied with a useless game are those busy getting their heads round FMB and scripting missions for the benefit of the whole community or 2GFlea who has produced such an excellent Aircraft Operations Checklist to compliment the manual. That alone should put the moaners to shame.

I believe that unless the game was released when it was in the unfinished state it was in then it would never have been released at all. Sure, some aspects of the game are not right at this moment and it is important to post bugs and errors but it is still an excellent product that is being fixed asap - have faith. The cost of the game is no more than a few hours at a theme park, a meal out or trip to the zoo. Whether or not the rides make you sick, you discover you don't like Italian food and the animals smell, that money would be gone, the money spent on CloD will provide hours of pleasure and fun for years to come. All this negativity makes you sound like a bunch of bored kids going to the seaside wailing 'Are we there yet?'

No matter how much the complainers complain or the fanbois cheer either Luthier will fix the problems and CloD will go on to become a great series like IL2 or he wont and it will languish as a might have been. Forum posts will have little effect either way.

A cold bucket of reality is the fact we are all basically a bunch of kids playing cowboys and indians except that we are pretending to be Biggles on rather more high tech equipment. I know because my wife and kids never pass up an opportunity to point this out.

''My eyes...It burns it burns''

Youve still got a wife n kids?.. your doing well :-)

Excellent post. Objectivity has surfaced.

Yeah, the wife needs the money and the kids are too lazy to leave and I can't go because of the cat.

I think the one thing the complainers and the fan bois have in common is a passion for WWII combat sims and I'll bet my life or to be safe, my mothers, that the second CloD starts cooking the complainers will whip out their joysticks and be on the servers with the rest of us quicker than a greasy weasle.

Personally, being British, I have the national adversion to complaining and making a fuss. Lets face it we let the Americans nick our women, the Germans nick our sun loungers and the Australians wreck our newspapers (and kid us that eating raw sausages in the rain is 'A Good Idea'). But we do try to play fair in a wishy washy cricketing sort of way.

What he said.

Eh... Shouldn't that be mother-in-law... ;) ... Anyway... You're right on the ball, mate!
I paid me money a while back, and hopefully they let go of it on the 19th...
Whatever state it 's in... Well I don't care... That it is buggy... Well I've been blowing my money on this 'hobby' for nigh on 30 years, and I've still not learnt me lesson...
Infact, I've probably spent half that time just getting me system to run every newly released prop sim that's seen the light of day...
Good fun, what?!

Cheers

No. The life of my mother in law wouldn't be accepted as a bet - bit like counterfiet cash. Have you tried Blazing Angels? The wife got me that, bless. If you want something to complain about stick it on your hard drive. As I remember it there were Montgolfier Brothers hot air balloons floating in the sky. I only tried it once.

Ah! When I say every prop sim... I mean every prop sim that is based on the real world physics...

There is a line y'know?

If we need a new thread, maybe it should be about the worse and/or most troublesome
sim that ever was... It could be quite a laugh and I bet COD don't come close...
Depending on the rig you had... I remember spending loads of time just getting the mem boot disk to work, just to be able to install 'em! Hehehaha...
Not funny at the time, though!

:)


:)