thats not what you were asked. see, we are back to the old oxford dictionary problem again were you are not paying attention to the actual meaning of the phrase.

what you were asked is "to post proof here that you have evidence and guarantees that no cheating whatsoever is occurring online since the soundfile hack was released and the il2 files were cracked"


not valid, you're raising anecdotal evidence from one biased user and trying to generalize from it that there is no cheating. you'll need to do better.

but i'll let you in on a secret, before we all waste to much time on this. it is nearly impossible to prove a negative in a logical argument, so i know already in advance it is not something you are going to be able to prove. in the same way that unless some reborn hack kiddie posts evidence of his dirty laundry here, then you are not going to get conformation how frequent and easy cheating has become on full real servers.


i am sorry, i didnt realize that. i wouldnt have made light of it if i had know you had problems with vision. my reference was to "being blinded to logic and reasoning", because a small number of people here, and i identified you as being one, are over and over pretending not to understand what issues here are at stake, and the arguments keep going around in circles, and meanwhile Rome is burning.

no no ... Rome is burning .... it is: sky is falling !

little dramatic don't you think ?

Gunny, well said! +1

At the end of the day zapatista, we all love this wonderful sim il2. I can agree to disagree on everything else,and if we continue like this we will just end up getting personal with each other and it is really not worth it.In fact I think we already started down that road and for that I apologise.
The only one who can 'fix' it now is Oleg,and I would love it if he can find a way to make 4.09 totally safe for everyone who wants an unmodded/unhacked sim.
Rather than concentrate on what 'has' happened, for which there is no going back for 4.08,we should look forward and hope 4.09 puts an end to all this.

indeed , a solution that would make online play hack-free (if wanted !!) and on the other side the possibilities to use these hacks offline (and online if the server/host allowes them) would be a perfect solution !
time will tell.................

even more perfect would be if Oleg would make some of these hacks official in an update- as examples some rearviewmirrors (espacially Hellcat), the now comming cockpittexture improvments.
the future will sure bring more things.

but as long these things are NOT official - i dont use any of these hacks.
personal decission from an 100% onliner !

Well said and is the truth. At least at the zoo, this topic is finally taboo.

Well put, here endeth the lesson (hopefully), but I doubt it

Witch hunts can be fun. Make me the target!

* edited - I had an idea on how one could catch cheaters but I decided it would lead to a witch hunt *

Gunny.. Great post
Thanks for the wake up call.
~S~RaVe

and another kodak moment for the cheat deniers, see attached jpeg

a Frankenstein p51 with rearview mirror from a spit

and before the black helicopter brigade starts yelling photoshop, the thread i grabbed this from is here: http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthread...59#Post2403059

similar problems exist with people using a "no cockpit" view in full real servers

how about a spitfire with a gyro sight from a p51 ?

for those that are a bit slow in following the bush fire that has now gone out of control, the original soundmod had just a few aspects changed (mainly the sound files, but some other things as well) and you could partiallu block its use with checksum 2, now LOTS of things have been changed since any 12yo with notepad can cut and paste bits of one aircraft config into another plane, so the options are limitless and you cant detect it is being used online.

just for those kiddies who cant deflection shot using a graded reticle as it was done historically, you can now have a MKII Gyro Gunsight For the Spitfire IX

leaving out quite a bit of historical facts on purpose from the original webpage aren't we now? Why doesn't that surprise me? You are so busted....

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/786...nsightaej1.jpg

========================FACTS===================== ===
The P-51D/K introduced the K-14 computing gyro gunsight, based on a British (Ferranti) design http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_10.html

In the summer and autumn of 1944 four major improvements incorporated in Spitfire fighter variants at that time deserve special mention in this account. In order of thier entry into service they were: the installation of the gyro gunsight, the fitting of the 'E' Type wing and armament, the fitting of the bubble canopy, together with a redesigned and cut-back fuselage, and the installation of additional fuel tanks iin the rear fuselage. These Modifications greatly increased the fighting ability of the Spitfire.
: Late Mark Spitfire Aces 1942–45 - Alfred Price - Osprey puplishing
========================FACTS===================== ===

The Gyro gunsight;
In action the effectiveness of a fighter's cannon and machine guns depends on the pilot's ability to aim the rounds with sufficient accuracy to score hits on the target. During the mid-war period RAF fighters carried simple GM2 reflector gunsights. This provided an illuminated fixed aiming point in the centre of the reflector glas, surrounded by a fixed circle which helped the pilot judge the correct deflection angle when engaging a manouvering crossing target. In fact the ability to judge the deflection angle accurately in the heat of the battle was the main points that seperated the ace pilots from the also-rans. Early in the war it was realised that if an automatic device could be developed to indicate to the pilot the correct amount of deflection to use when firing during a turning combat, this would greatly enhance the effectiveness of the fighter force.
: Late Mark Spitfire Aces 1942–45 - Alfred Price - Osprey puplishing


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...c_Ferranti.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_gunsight

cant you even count to 10 using your own fingers ?

the problem with the unrestricted hacking in il2 is not about what people like to add or change, it is that suddenly you have 1 group flying online with the legitimate il2 specifications, and another group is on the same full real server but has added gun sight gyro's to planes that shouldnt have it, increased their visibility by removing the cockpit, added mirrors in planes that dont normally have them, increased dot sizes for distant aircraft etc..

you really still cant see that argument ?

so lets see how many fingers you need for this
1) if everybody uses the same legitimate il2 files to fly online, then there is a level playing field and no cheating
2) people can now with hacked files join full real servers and remain undetected, using completely altered game option settings (removing cockpits, adding plane sets that are not allowed etc..) and use plane sets with different features (adding mirrors, adding idiot proof gyro gun sights , ... etc)
3) nobody cares what the hack kiddies get up to late at night playing with eachother as long as they only do it in their own home, and dont harm any animals or other humans

you only needed 3 little steps to understand it so you only need one hand, and you can keep doing with the other hand what you have been doing all along so far

.... bla, bla,bla..... insults when proven wrong .... so typical

? proven wrong about what

if you dont understand what is posted in the thread, try not to participate in the conversation because you are making a fool of yourself. you only need to follow 2 little steps

1) if everybody uses the same legitimate il2 files to fly online in full real servers, then there is a level playing field and no cheating

2) if some people can now join full real servers with hacked files and remain undetected, and use completely altered game option settings (removing cockpits, adding plane sets that are not allowed etc..) and use plane sets with different features (adding mirrors, adding idiot proof gyro gun sights , ... etc) then you have one group who is cheating and gaining an unfair advantage

simple really, aint it ?

you only needed 2 fingers to follow that one, just like at Agincourt

or...
1. everyone uses the same modded files, which gives things like the gyro gunsite to late mark spits, rear view mirrors to planes that did actually have them (seen many photos of mustangs with mirrors - ones like the spit, ones like you get on motorbikes etc), reskinned pits, better object visibility yadda yadda, and unadulterated fm/dm/wm. then you have the level playing field. surely there is some way to load the plane files server side so that everyone gets the same deal?
2. there has still been no proof posted (unless i missed it...) that the soundmod works in chkruntime=2 servers. someone install and use fraps to record modded files, and then logging into a chkruntime=2 server. not already being in server and using something they shouldn't have, that doesn't really prove the point of secure servers being vulnerable.

and for what it's worth my shooting is better without the gyro sights, so i wouldn't call them idiot proof.

err you now going to try and tell me there is one single person is controlling all the hacks that are out there, and that this same person is smart enough to produce a brand new anti hack lock that will put the geni back in the bottle ?

i havnt hear that type of optimism since the flower power days. it's a nice idea but it aint going to happen, we've entered the realm of the absurd there.


yes you missed it, dont expect people here to keep going 40 times over the same things. there is no controversy there.

back the fishtruck up for a minute.


Lets see if i got this straight.


A sertain person with well known sentiments regarding this topic (pro modder) doesnt like where a sertain threadh is going or maby he knows its soon to be dead (Sound mod threadh) so the said person decides to start a new threadh (this one) where he ask (how polite) people to post proof, or how it actually is: to put up or shut up?

The said person then assumes the role of judge, jury (with the help of some trusted allies) and exicusioner, or moderator if u will (no offense intended towards real moderators) in examening and validating posted evidance. Nedless to say, nothing of the evidance posted (despite the surreal conditions under wich its done) is, in the end, valid. (what a shocker)

The well known pro modder puts up this "request" (how polite) here on 1C official forum as an added flavour?



Did i understand situation correctly?



Did we all move to the Twilight Zone and i missed the 1C announcement?


Maby someone went over the deep end......or lost theire marbels...or maby someone went over the deep end BECAUSE he lost his marbels?




BTW. Not intended as an insult...just a question, keep your eyes on the ?-mark. (to avoid future missunderstandings)




P.S. Zapatista, u know it, i know it, heck even some modders know it, problem is that we are using way to many bigg words trying to explain how it in facts is...it only confuses the situation. Sad but true.

ah missed this as well then -
so you mean the lerche thing... apparently not proof of cheating. so, no i did catch that. and all the youtube clips you showed. someone, if they are so adamant about the cheating and getting into chkruntim=2 servers, post a movie clip showing it exactly. until then this is stuff that could be done on an unprotected server, and could simply be down to paranoid ideation.
hell maybe it is optimistic, beats being a "sky is falling, we're all doomed". and christ, the average age of most people playing this sim should be enough to think that cheating someone is a hollow victory, not as satisfying as doing it on a level field, no? and of course i'm not so dense to think that one person is controlling it all. there are probably groups that could do it, the community itself if it wasn't so intent on eating itself for example. but noooo, far more productive to start a b*tchfest witch hunt after the event, than to see what can resolve it.

with spelling like that, i think big words are way out of your league.

Thx for confirming my thoughts.


Because if u dissegreed u would have come up with something better than that, right?



"Big words" in this case is a matter of oppinion, i agreee. I never thought words like "illigal", "no", "yes", "cheats" was big words...but apparently they are.



Thx again on the confirming part though.



BTW. Im bilingual with English as second language...how about u?

no, i just said that as a way just returning the "idiot" mud throwing really. irritating isn't it?
the spelling is still off.
that lerche track posted shows it being used, it doesn't show anything else. and as someone else said this is an old cheat using a conf.ini exploit. so what i think uther was looking for was undeniable proof. this has not materialised. i think all uther wanted was osmething concrete as opposed to the hysterical "it's all cheating"

So said person was "looking" for undenible proof, said person "wants" concrete evidance?

Pardon my less than perfect english (i know how it enoys u)...but i couldnt care less.


Doenst matter what kind of proof will be posted, there will allways be a "if" or "but" in there somewhere. I hope those with proof (me being one of them) will relize that in the next page or 2 so we can put this joke of a thredh to bed to. A joke, as in: never ending story.

Those with proof can show them where it actually matters, to Oleg for ex. so it can help him come up with a solution (not that i think it will happen). Maby post them over at Ubi zoo showing people what to look out for. Just a couple of examples.


BTW, Im still bilingual, with english as my second language...how about u?


Maby i can post in my native language and u can correct my spelling then to...mmm, how about it?

doesn't sound like someone who couldn't care less.

as for the rest, it's simple. a fraps video showing modded files, showing version 4.08, showing log on to chkruntime=2 server, and showing in game cheating. fair enough if evidence is posted, just make it so holes can't be picked in it. the lerche "cheat" has been shown to be another factor, not the soundmod itself.
to put my position, all i have seen posted is that people have tried to use it in chkruntime=2 servers, as a test, and have failed. maybe some new files have come out, or whatever, but i have not seen those.
as for looking for the undeniable evidence... yeah i'd want that if i was being called scum. wouldn't you?

"Doesnt sound like someone who couldnt care less"?....the me couldnt care less part is me not posting proof here of all places.


And as i said, there will allways be a "if" or a "but". Someone could show tracks of cheating saying "i was there doing it" (wich someone allredy did). and there woould still be "ifs" and "buts" (we allredy seen thoose) ..so whats the point.


U say the Lerche cheat has been proven to be somethingelse than sound mod cheat.....where was that proven?


Must have missed that part.


Checkruntime=2 has been said to stop only the complete novice, nothing more.

you really aint the smartest kid on the block are you ?

you'r either playing the fool here thinking we aint smart enough to see through your feigned ignorance, or you aint smart enough to find the information yourself in the kiddie hack forum you been posting for the last weeks ?

which of those 2 is it ?

checksum 2 dont work no more, and it hasnt for months. the horse has bolted, case closed.

it "has been said" but not shown. as for the rest, well apparently the lerche is done by messing with the conf.ini file.
the posted track just shows a lerche in a server, not the version used (i believe 4.05 is easier to change critical files), not the server security settings, nothing other than it being used. it is out of context, and that's what makes it really little else than a standard to gather around for anyone who has already convinced themselves.

want to prove it? post a fraps vid of all the steps, that will cover any doubt.
if you're worried about posting a cheat tutorial, well... according to you there is no need for a tutorial, is there? everyone is doing it already.

and zap, well i didn't read that bit so could you post me a link - always good to have the information. as for intelligence to do it... well, actually looking for it is more of a factor. i guess you're on there more than i am. hey! here's an idea, why don't you do the fraps vid, seeing as you have access.
as for the kiddie thing... well recent poll shows the average age to be pushing into the thirties. there may be other forums you are referring to but i guess that's the only one you've managed to find so far.

zapatista;31494 cant you even count to 10 using your own fingers ?


Apparently your the one with a real learning deficiency here not me since you can't even understand a simple web page like this one. That or your a balded face lier. Which is it?


zapatista... he problem with the unrestricted hacking in il2 is not about what people like to add or change, it is that suddenly you have 1 group flying online with the legitimate il2 specifications, and another group is on the same full real server but has added gun sight gyro's to planes that shouldnt have it, increased their visibility by removing the cockpit, added mirrors in planes that dont normally have them, increased dot sizes for distant aircraft etc..

stalker..One can download these mods or not. These gunsites and mirror mods you just mention I have found not very useful in the heat of battle. The other "mods" you mention I haven't seen on the site you quote but don't understand. I believe you must be a very very poor flier to worry about these "mods" as much as you do...


zapatista..so lets see how many fingers you need for this

Stalker.. Repeating shop worn insults seems to be your forte. At least I can count using my fingers. Your are as goofy as they come..

zapatista.. 1) if everybody uses the same legitimate il2 files to fly online, then there is a level playing field and no cheating

Stalker.. You really are the crummest flier around aren't you? Anyone can use these mods buddy or aren't you aware of this? I suggest you download them all proto because you obviously need them all and please stop constantly whining like the little girl about them will you sally?

zapatista...2) people can now with hacked files join full real servers and remain undetected, using completely altered game option settings (removing cockpits, adding plane sets that are not allowed etc..) and use plane sets with different features (adding mirrors, adding idiot proof gyro gun sights , ... etc)

Stalker...You could download all these options and it still wouldn't help you. I suggest the "idiot proof gunsite" first for you to really see if it is truly "idiot proof" Your the perfect test case..


zapatista..3) nobody cares what the hack kiddies get up to late at night playing with eachother as long as they only do it in their own home, and dont harm any animals or other humans

Stalker.."hack Kiddies"? You really are a disgrunteled hacker aren't you? What is the matter didn't pass "hack 101" ?

zapatista..you only needed 3 little steps to understand it so you only need one hand, and you can keep doing with the other hand what you have been doing all along so far

Stalker..

and what does one do with the other hand zapatista since apparently I am speaking to a real true expert here in one hand, hand management? :)

I think it's time to stop, guys. We don't need a hacking forum here.

Thats right Evgeny. Personally I believe we should have a combat flying 101 class thread here because apparently this is where the real problem lies IMO..

These guys couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack... :)

lol, and this one is the funniest one yet !

hang in there with the poor english, it gets quiet funny !



and, hello hello, who do we have here now, mr innocent himself


you gotta be freakin kiddin me , right ?

so now we are going to get a rata, with the nose and engine of a 190, and the guns of a hurricane ?

fair do's evgeny, no we don't. sorry for anything that crosses the line in that respect.

you really are a frequent visitor zap, perhaps you aren't as innocent as you make yourself out to be.

you have my vote !

kick the lot of them out

zapatista stop whining like a girl and just try to become a better combat flier why don't you? Hell, I have shot down two to three mig 15s in a Ju-88 for christs sakes! I have shot down Me-109's in dogfights with a-20!

You apparently already are expert in one hand hand managment. Why don't you put all that constant practice to a good use for once?..... :)

The tracks with the Lerche is 4.09...suprises me if there are any doubts about that what so ever.


And your right about the "checkruntime=2 stops only the basement dwelers"..it has only been said...as it has ONLY been said that the Lerche is a old cheat done with confini (first thing iv ever heard about such a easy cheat..wonder why noone used it before)

So, thoose things have only been said, wich leaves us with several tracks showing an ex. of what can be done by a waaay larger group than before. A Lerache on several servers (the biggest ones on HL in fact) where there shouldnt be a Learche......i know cus i fly on several of them myselfe.


I know wich i belive over other claims made or said.


Saying a posted proof is an old cheat doesnt cut it. If u or any onelse wanna contest it.....do so by posting exact same proof showing its a fake. Thats how it works.

Ok, this is so damn stupid! Someone claims to have proof, the acussed asks to see said proof, the one with proof says "I have it, but I don't think I'll show you". I'm sorry but if you say you have proof and don't produce it then that makes you a liar! I've tried to stay out of these threads because they are going nowhere but this was too much to ignore, I mean the nerve! I can't beleive you actually have the nerve to claim "I have proof" and then when asked to show it for the world to see you are right you say" ummm welll, I have proof but I...I don't wanna show it...", That if fecking insane!!!

Did u even read earlier posts? Especially those made by myselfe?


Please, god, dont make me repeat myselfe again.

4.09? really? that doesn't look good for the future then.
and well actually it does cut it. weight of evidence and all that. you have to show it is a valid piece of evidence, using the fraps vid of the whole process. if i wanted to be difficult i could say that this was done in a private dogfight server, named after the famous ones, with a bunch of actors playing the part of the outraged. i don't for a minute think that, but remove any elements of doubt eh baron? oh no, because that would mean you would have to stop the arguments and finger pointing and insults. you don't care for the truth, you just want to carry on with that. repeatedly. you loooove it.

and zap, really... baron is showing you how to troll. do better.

Like i said, if`s and buts till the cows come home.


U said it yourselfe, if u wanted to be difficoult u could................


Wich is exactly whats hapening here.



BTW, U or your modfriends dont get to decide whats trolling and whats not.......sry.


Thx.



Gonna listen to Evgeny here and drop this dead horse and move on.

The lerche cheat was posted on ubi forums long before the sound mod and it was confirmed there that it was a trick of editing a config file at the right time and in such a way as to allow the lerche to be used on any server, again, before the sound mod. Many many people saw this thread and if the search function worked worth a crap I'd post the link. That lerche video is proof of cheating, but only that cheating happened before the sound mod ever came out, modding is not the sole inventor of cheat, print screen, cable pulling, packet manipulation of all sorts was prevalent long before the code was hacked. No one denies that the potential for cheating is there, what we are denying is that using a mod makes you a cheater and that the mods have increased the amount of cheating. I have not seen one single cheat that was attributable to the mods while flying online, I have seen packet cheaters though....

the only "if" was "if i wanted to be difficult" which was an illustration of how far you could go to back up your claims, given the apparent lack of evidence. i do not need to go to that extent because you are incapable of posting a simple video to back up what you say. and no-one gets to decide what trolling is, it simply is trolling. you are providing a world class example. as for the horse - it's more of a bloody smear that is still being hit with sticks.
still busy at the other place zap?
oh, just for added flavour
yep, people like Zap

or in this case, each other.

Urufu_Shinjiro:: That's why this thread serves no purpose. If there is proof it would be poasted because it would need to be talked about. Further, if there is proven hack cheating, than its because of Online cheaters in anonymous public dogfight shooter servers and not honest Online players or Offline players.

Either people are free to discuss the Sound Mod or they aren't...
As it’s an issue that’s important to people from both sides of the argument (pro & anti-modders) it seems sensible that open discussion and debate should be allowed.
The level of interest in it can be quickly gauged by the number of posts and views of the appropriate Forum threads.
As the anti-mod camp believes they have a convincing argument, why is it that some from the anti-mod camp seem so keen to shut down further discussion and debate?
The discussion should be carried out in a spirit of fairness and amicability - without resort to insults or flaming – but who would want to move to a situation where we have locked threads, deleted threads and user bans…Surely that’s just censorship?

ahh i see, you were totally misunderstood all along.

what you really meant from the beginning was that it doesnt matter that people with hacked files get onto fullreal servers, if the others get shot down it just means they are bad pilots.

and learn how to use the quote system on forums willya, the text soup you post aint worth reading

No, I understand you quite well. Why is it that the most simple of minded posters always believes they are so complex they think people don't understand their nonsense, god? Even with your posts in quotes your rational isn't worth reading no matter how it is posted..

I could posts all my stuff in quotes all day long and you would still be incapable of understanding it. I figured this way you would at least bother to make an effort to try to understand what I was saying. What is the matter can't differentiate "Stalker" from your own insipid names.. zapatista! :)


.................................................. .................................................. ...................


zapatista;31494 cant you even count to 10 using your own fingers ?


Stalker..Apparently your the one with a real learning deficiency here not me since you can't even understand a simple web page like this one. That or your a balded face lier. Which is it?


zapatista... he problem with the unrestricted hacking in il2 is not about what people like to add or change, it is that suddenly you have 1 group flying online with the legitimate il2 specifications, and another group is on the same full real server but has added gun sight gyro's to planes that shouldnt have it, increased their visibility by removing the cockpit, added mirrors in planes that dont normally have them, increased dot sizes for distant aircraft etc..

stalker..One can download these mods or not. These gunsites and mirror mods you just mention I have found not very useful in the heat of battle. The other "mods" you mention I haven't seen on the site you quote but don't understand. I believe you must be a very very poor flier to worry about these "mods" as much as you do...


You see when you were talking I put "zapatista"

when I was talking I put "Stalker"

and you talk about me counting on one Hand... !!! :)

zap, prove it. make that video, using the files you have access to. then you "win".
stalkers posts with the quotes are easy enough for a simpleton like me to read. see where he put his name next to the lines he added? yeah that means that bit is him. saying they aren't worth reading is oh so infantile. oh wait, you already went there didn't you?

nail. head. etc.

urufu,

i think this is your first post in this thread, so i'll take it at face value that your not just trolling like the hack kiddies who just want to keep advertising their vandalism here.

about the "cheating" with the soundmod files, the following things are known beyond doubt:
1) the soundfile hack opened up must of the previously locked data in il2, including plane features like engines, wing shape, plane size, mirrors, cockpit shape and canopy bars/glass, removing cockpits completely, etc..
2) even on servers running checksum 2 they cant detect soundmod files or other additionally edited parameters anymore
3) i have posted you examples of people adding gyro sights to planes that normally dont have them, adding mirrors, and people flying unauthorized planes on full real servers. if you look at the files the hack kiddies use, all that is available, and you have no way of telling what is switched on/off when they then join servers online

and that makes the situation much worse then befor all this soundmod started being available to everyone and his dog.

i'm not sure what else you'd need. i'd say using any of those features on servers that are set to full real constitutes cheating since, it gives an unfair advantage compared to the other flyer's.

and as some of the hack kiddies put it themselves

it doesnt matter whatsoever to most legitimate il2 users if some people used hacked files like that on their own, or with their little friends in some online server. what matters is that you now dont know anymore what unfair advantages other people have when you join some of the better online servers.

well I guess you got the post easy enough huh loon? :) Apparently zapatista couldn't figure that one out even though he has such a superior mind we don't understand any of his logic..

err and thats it ? try and use all your crayons at least

post something meaningful next time if you are going to press the submit button

lexx,

i have seen your name posted there in at least one or 2 posts, so you have had a look and are familiar with the extent that files are now being modified. you then also know that none of this can be detected anymore when people join fullreal servers.

how come you arnt concerned ?

So now you want me to use crayons colors now for you to understand the posts? I was looking for some nice smilie quote Pumkins and kitty quote pics for you. Would't you prefer those?
:)

good job advertising yourself there zap, seems to me that you are one of those "hack kiddies".
the locked data... well i've not seen where it has opened up wing shape or removed sections of pits, or resized them... i've seen an added mirror and a swapped out gun sight, only done with a heap of photographic and written evidence to back it up.
speaking of evidence... not seen any from yourself about this checksum=2 being broken, please do show us, come one. you must have it somewhere, someone of your vastly superior intellect and maturity must be able to produce this, surely? or do you want to leave it to throwing insults, trying to "cry to headteacher" or get those wanting to discuss this banned?

Please guys let it drop!

Zapatista is only striving to get this thread closed down so he can claim “victory”.
Refrain from answering and arguing and just let this thread stand as an monument over the unjust accusations.

its like the old joke about the fool being able to ask more questions then 10 wise men can answer lol

i'll give you a similar one in return, unless you right now jump of the roof of your house then this proves you are cheating online.

easy really, how to create an absurd argument.try and use some higher reasoning functions next time, add a bit of executive control to the thoughts popping up in your reptilian brain centers.

yeps i had a look this afternoon to see which places provided the qtim files and hacks, simple really, took exactly 3 min with google. even funnier how there seems to be no honor amongst thieves, and half you lot that are blabbering here arn't even aware what exactly can be done with those files now, or how bad things have gotten. neither do you even seem to read your own forums very well it seems.

thats why its so easy to determine most of you "hack apologists" are just trolling here, you come and pretend to be all innocent, and all this is blatant in your own back yard.

how about a nice G4 replacing the G2 109 in game ? a bit of a hack job in all the cutting and welding, or should i say cutting and pasting ?
or how about a "G10-Erla" replaces the stock G10 in the sim ?
again all you need is a bit of cut and pasting

et voila, nothing a 12 yo with notepad cant do

ahh and lets have a little guess now to see whom of you think that with all this the visibility from the cockpit will be improved or reduced compared to the stock standard planes ?

1, 2, 3... all together now, ... improved of course ! they have even removed the armored cockpit glass visual effect so you can see better.

and i have another riddle for you now, will using these planes now be detected when joining full real servers.... you should know the answer by now, of course they wont. and half the lot of you will keep jabbering on of course that using these planes is "more real", lol except of course you wont be telling the other people on the servers you are using them

http://rapidshare.com/files/77673952...sters.zip.html

hang on now, you want me to hack my own files and go and cheat online to prove to the cheaters that it is possible ? you might have missed it, but i am here arguing against it.

Thanks Urufu,it is all I ever wanted.But it is useless,it is not worth the abuse to try and put your point of view across.Best to stay out of the threads now,and let them say what they want.At the end of the day its not really important compared to what is happening in the real world is it.
Today I learned that a friend of mine had his leg blown off this week in Iraq fighting terrorists.THAT is important.This is not.

your being hypocritical uther

ahh but you were badly misunderstood were you, in fact you asked for it only, and weren't going to use it ?

or was it, you only were going to use it offline

mmm or was it, you were going to use it online but actually msg everybody to let them know you had extra features added to your plane ?

which was it ?

'Today I learned that a friend of mine had his leg blown off this week in Iraq fighting terrorists.THAT is important.This is not'

You missed that bit off your quote.


And you did'nt quote this one either:

'zapatista seems to know more about modding in il2 than I ever will!
Although I love these mods,I have 2 installs of il2. Unless I am playing with friends,I use the unmodded version online.'


Yes I will only use the mirror offline,although no one has actually made one yet.

Done talking to you.

no i didn't miss that, but you have access to all this, you are accusing all of cheating and being able to, so prove it. you can delete the files once you are done and go back to stock, and you can warn the servers you are conducting a test so there are no long term implications. wouldn't want to see you banned form servers for proving your point.

actually the reason i don't know what is possible to alter for cheating is because i have zero interest in doing that. i don't fly online at all, if i ever did it would be with a fresh clean install, where is the satisfaction to be found from beating someone using cheats? so i won't be jumping off my roof, which surely is against some form of conduct, maybe not the forum RoC, but certainly those of an adult who proclaims intellectual and moral superiority.
the point of the absurd argument is that it can be extended to a ridiculous point, reductio ad absurdum, so where you say having a mirror is a cheat, i can just as easily say that having track ir is a cheat, an advantage that is not enjoyed by everyone. jesus, mirrors are no use when you have f6! you probably have a greater advantage if you use a 30 inch screen. fair enough, blatant cheats like a mk108 armed uber spitfire may be possible with the mod, but i have not seen it, i have not heard of it, and i have seen no evidence that it can be used on a chkruntime=2 server. if you are so adamant that it can be done then please post something showing it. educate me.

where were you going with that little tirade? seems you went off on a tangent and started trying to insult me. i've asked one question, nd that is what proof you have. surely 10 wise men are not needed for this. you asked no question of me so, well, what do i answer?

you need to read more at the other place, or quote in context. the frankenplanes have the fm of the planes they replace, so that g4 is a cosmetically altered g2, ditto the g10 erla. they replace a slot in the game. as far as i have seen fm dm and wm are the same as the ones they replace. so at a guess, if they were used in a server where some did not have the mods, then they would appear as a g2 and a g10 to those people. also, at a guess, they would be hardly able to tell the difference anyway. as for whether they can be used in a chkruntime=2 server... well i still don't know, because there is still nothing concrete posted to prove one way or another.

sorry the hear about your friend uther, does put stuff in perspective.

no i didnt. you'r cheapening and disrespecting the tragedy your friend experienced, to bring it up here as somehow justifying your previous pro hack statements, which is why i didnt respond to it.

one moment your pretending no cheating is possible or happening, then in reply you get lots of posts proving exactly the opposite, and now your complaining the people arguing against the possibility of cheating online are actually hackers ? make up your mind.

it's this feigned ignorance and denying of how bad things are with hacks in il2 that bothers me the most with your lot posting here. half the time you dont even seem to know what is actually happening in your own little forum lair, but it doesnt seem to stop you making 50 posts pretending things are honky dory and it all doesnt matter.

fyi as a worst case scenario you now have people on full real servers flying with increased performance planes, set to no cockpits, and looking for enemy planes with fluorescent orange skins and triple sized il2 dots, etc.. does that mean this extreme form of cheating is rampant, no it isnt, but milder versions of that example are now a daily occurrence. add a gun gyro to your plane, a mirror, added visibility, its not a slippery slope, its an out of control bush fire !

i'd say asking for new hack features fits the "promoting the hack" category, dont you ?

sure , i believe you. especially after the 10 pictures you added showing the real historical 109 E often did have a mirror. it wouldnt really be a big deal using it online then right ? i mean , other planes already have mirrors to, right ?

...........
 

What was the plane set? If the Lerche wasn't included in the planeset then yes it's DEFINATELY a cheat.

I tried to D/L the ntrk, but the uploader removed it.

I can't help but think we're all being diverted away from the real argument here if we only discuss the pro's and con's of the Sound Mod in terms of whether any form of online cheating occurs...

The bigger picture is that the vast majority of IL2 play is offline rather than online (Oleg is quoted as saying approximately 95% of players are Offline players...which would fit well with industry estimates for the typical Online/Offline ratio of gameplayers) and of the people that do play online...only a proportion of them will play on Hyperlobby - with the rest playing on their own dedicated or squadron servers or through peer to peer connections...
So even if there is any cheating it is not something which will affect the vast majority of IL2 players.


Besides cheating has always been possible in IL2 - its not a new subject for discussion...Prnt Sreen, disconnecting, lag manipulation have existed for a long time...as has gamesmanship such as flaps on a slider, trim abuse, altering the gamma on your monitor so you can see through the G blackout etc etc...so to imply that before the existance of the Sound Mod everything was great, following its release everything is appalling is a complete misrepresentation of the situation...I can quote from threads about Online cheating that were posted back in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 etc etc...

Besides...how prevelent is it really? Even if it is possible to manipulate the game on closed servers...is it really occuring with any regularity? For all the ping pong arguments in this thread...there are no examples of genuine online cheating refered to here...merely examples of people showing it is possible...I can only assume that rather than servers being full of 1000 KPH Cr42s with Rayguns that in actuality life is continuing exactly as it was before the release of the Sound Mod.

And even if it did occur, surely its the responsibility of the Server Admins and players populating a server to identify and ban any offenders...If you choose to fly in an environment that allows and encourages cheating (IE: an open access serverwhere you are flying with random, anonymous people...in a competitive, stat-driven, win at all costs environment) surely you should take responsibility for making it a fair and enjoyable environment to fly in...rather than throwing that responsibility back onto the wider IL2 community who have no interest or stake in it whatsoever.

So in summary...Cheating doesn't affect most people, its not a new thing anyway, it doesn't seem to occur that often and perhaps stopping it is the concern of the hyperlobby players and server admins rather than a concern for the bulk of the IL2 community who are neither interested nor affected!

get out! you're not allowed such reasoned discourse here!
lol
ahh jason, that is about the best summary going.

No, it's not a "reasoned" discourse. It's a discourse of someone trying to proove a point and obvioulsy not sharing onliner concerns.
In an other thread I allready showed that onliners are one important part of this sim and that a big amount of the toys you're playing with in this sim were made by onliners... without them, the sim would never have became what it is now... so you can't just ignore them.
Now there's no threat on "offliners" or "free modders". hacked tools to modify at will 4.08 are available, and this will not change.... so from now on, everybody will be able to mod 4.08 to the extend he wants... and it's not gonna change.... even after 4.09 will be available.
Now there's a real potential problem online.... you want some track to proove it... just do a google search and you'll find plenty. If you want to find you will...
Discussing about it is also not going to change anything. So far by playing Aiforce War? I didn't saw obvious use of these possibilities (as somme seen on dogfight servers), but there's no doubt it's gonna come, and becomes a real problem.
My only hope is 4.09, to restore onliners confidence and keep this game still strong online until SoW:BoB.... (and in this case "free modders" will be happy with 4.08, or even 4.09 without using appropriate "CRT=3".... and onliners will be happy... )
There's absolutly no need to debate and to flame... the only thing we can do is.... wait...

I fly on several of thoose servers myselfe.....NO ONE of them have the Lerche avalible.


But thats ok, thoose tracks only show somone beeing ABLE to cheat if he WANTS to..it doesnt show someone actually flying arround and cheat.


So its all smooth sailing.


Dhuuuuuuuu.


To be perfectly honest, im having a blast reading all the inovative excuses the pro modders come up with. Havent had this much fun all year. LoL



The mirror on the Bf is a perfect example. Its all for the benefit of doing things as historicly correct as possible, right? I then wonder why IRL pilots REMOVED the mirror because it filled no purpose? lol....historically correct...suuure.

But, if there are 10 000 people who only bought the sim for offline play since orginal IL2 it surly must mean that there are 10 000 offliners active right now...doesnt it?


Same with onliners, all the 700+ online at HL at any given day..is all the same 700+ in the intire world on any given day....surly?


And like u said.....onliners are only bagage, a group that has no effect on the game what so ever. Oleg would have been twice as successfull hadnt it been for online whiners.


And Zapatista, your waisting your breath, they agreed with u and "us" long ago, they are just making u pay for being right and are enjoying every minute of it.

I know we are right, u know it, they know it, who cares if they admitt we are? They wont admitt anything, unless hell freezes over.

dont you get a bit embarrassed giving each other hand jobs in public ?

you must be the runt of the hacker litter, because you consistently make the least sense

so lets translate the jason-speak,....the point that you are making is that therefore online cheating should be allowed completely unrestricted, even promoted,, just because it doesnt matter to jason ?

not only is that absurd, but whatever little time oleg had to add the last few fixes to other import bugs in the 4.09 patch, it being the LAST chance to fix things, now wont occur as extensively because they have to plug the hack leak, thanks jason, great idea there !

the online multiplayer community has also been the most active in providing feedback, making requests, and influencing further developments in il2 since its inception. even if it is a part of total sales, rather than the complete market. and your quote is dated, it will nowadays be at least around 50%, with the increase in net access in the last years.


you'r on a roll now. so because jason cant count on his fingers how important online fair play is on ALL coop and dogfight servers for the community at large, we therefore should be bothered with hacking the files. let me ask my 9 yo if he sees the flaw in that......


thank the gods you dont have a job that matters in the real world. you'r basically saying that because influenza does exists and can affect people, that we therefore shouldn't do anything about malaria, cholera, pox, aids, ... etc. dont you see it is irrational aspect of the "logic" you are using ?

yes, lets take the argument to the absurd in order to try and make a point. your now saying that because there is not a shower of 1000 meteor's heading for the earth right now, that meteors dont matter. since you seem to live a sheltered life, maybe get out more on some of the better servers (yes, even those not on HL, presuming you can find them), and on voice comm's see what kind of observations the regulars have. most will have seen confirmations of cheating, and there has been a significant rise in reports since the sound hack started being spread into the wild.


your lack of having some rational perspective on all of this is stunning ! you've now said that the existence of a widespread hack, its open promotion and widespread use actually doesnt matter at all, since people should only use servers you like, and that fairness and honesty in the whole online community isnt important. and emm, if people are really silly enough to play with other ww2 aviation enthousiasts from around the world, then really they should have some mother hen overseeing them 24/7 to make sure each user isnt cheating. i have a simpler solution, you go play werever you want with whatever you want, and the rest of us want a simple secure way to play online without cheating.

i think you need more ram and a new cpu, then reboot and ask yourself the same questions.

This is so mundane.

Everyone knows the points of view. None of you are going to change the other persons point of view. Posting over and over and belittling each other because they refuse or don't see it your way is childsplay.

This thread has gone on far too long beating the same horse to death. The Modders see it their way "as savior to the sim" the realists see it their way "Modders are the anti-christ to the sim"

If you're so worried you are flying against people using the sound mod then go join a squad or fly only with people you know. Quite gripping to the community as a whole from a perceived lofty perch and attacking one another.

For the sake of the community both sides should save us all this crap. Don't turn this place into the Zoo!! go there and fight it out....

tools!!! go ahead flame on you can't control yourself...

why keep going over the same ground. there is about 10 examples in this thread of various confirmed types of cheating. you should put a little effort in yourself to confirm that checksum 2 issue if that is your personal stumbling block, even your own buddies in the dark dungeons confirmed it (and so have others in this same thread).

just read your own little forum and you'll get an idea, when seeing some of the options posted there just ask yourself which ones would be an advantage to use online against others who dont have them. but interesting you now say you dont know if it is possible to cheat, yet for the last 10 pages you have been arguing cheating doesnt exist and isnt possible. those 2 positions are quite different.


just read your own statement again, and spot the flaw.

you've already stated you dont play online, and you are now saying that because you personally havnt seen it online, it therefore does not exist ?

since you dont seem to get out much, just apply the Principle of Parsimony from those that spend the majority of their time online and want it to remain fair.


your failing to mention, or havnt realised, that those planes have improved rear visibility compared to the stock standard models, and that the removal of slightly clouded armored glass also improves visibility. also placing the wings of one plane on another will change its flight characteristics, for better or for worse depending how it is applied (ie it is not just wing textures, but wing shapes and surface area's affected)

but my main point of listing those examples is to clearly demonstrate that the franken monster production line has started.

now this, this is a good one. can't answer the post, stoop to insults. you really are a fool zap. which is funny when you consistently insult others intelligence. i'm sensing a napoleon complex here, you know what that is short stuff?
jason's post is one of the non-hysterical posts, like beowulfs, in this thread. and he hasn't decided to just call you some kind of paranoid schizo for hte hell of it. i'd call that a reasonable post. maybe not one that you agree with but well, that's life.
comparing a game to disease control... that really is stretching the limits of credibility.

was that really your point? are you sure? and you miss out the other bits where it is said that new slots cannot be created so they have to take the fms of other planes. hence g4 replacing g2, g10 erla replacing g10, typhoon replacing (and having same fm as) tempest... and now for your next round of insults... and still no post showing cheating happening. oh no. that would spoil the fun. prove it and you win. continue with this pointless flaming and you lose.

1) answered the post
2) responding to tag team of hack kiddies gratifying each other as if that adds weight to their arguments, even when what they said is completely nonsensical

you need to check the big word book again, its not a comparison, its an analogy

analogy
- noun (plural analogies) a comparison between one thing and another made for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
- the process of making such a comparison.
- a thing regarded as analogous to another; an analogue.

failed to understand the analogy perhaps ?

well as an analogy it still makes you look like an over reacting, short arsed, tool.

i get it now, having an 1-16 with the engine of a 190 and the guns of a hurricane doesnt really matter as long as it takes the places of the original rata ?

mm i think there might be a flaw there in your logic ?


dont be shy now, if you dish it out be prepared to be treated the same in return. when the lot of you starts to behave in a civilised manner, i think most others here will treat you the same in return.

what is it with your bunch, do you have a brand new clone typing at the keyboard each time you logon and everything needs to be explained to you again ?

- links demonstrating cheating with the use of the soundmod files have been posted
- specific examples of the type of cheats in use were given, mirrors, gyro's etc..
- demonstrated non authorized planes in full real restricted servers being used
- franken monster plane examples given
- others from your own hack crowd confirmed here and "there" that checksum 2 doesnt work, even if you keep doubting me.

you seem to expect from me that i am going to post links to some of the actual hack files, or spend half a day creating some horror planes myself just because some doubting Thomas on some internet forum cant use google.


err is that why you keep posting here ?

i'll have to disappoint you, its not why i am posting here, everybody has already lost , even if you dont seem to realize it.

now go tell your mum you'r being rude to nice people on the internet again !

Good to see you are able to hold an intelligent and reasonable discussion without resorting to schoolyard insults…but I guess that really sets the tone!
Well as indicated, not only does it not matter to me…it doesn’t matter to the vast majority of players…it only matters to a tiny proportion of people that play IL2 – just because its important to you doesn’t mean its important in the great scheme of things…It matters to a fraction of a minority (The Hyper lobby players only being a proportion of onliners…onliners only being a tiny minority amongst IL2 players) that doesn’t mean its not something that isn’t worth discussing…but framing the whole debate about the sound mod in terms of its impact on that minority and discounting the benefits it can realize for everyone else is an extremely blinkered view.

4.09 was only ever going to be a small add on, including the new maps – I think even the inclusion of the completed new flyables (Avia, Fokker & CW Interceptor) had been discounted because of time pressures…the reason that the last chance to fix things has not occurred is because of the pressure to develop BOB-SOW, NOT because of the sound mod.

Any evidence for this…or is it just a feeling you have? Giving feedback…making requests…influencing further development…What does that actually mean? Does it mean anything important beyond whining for more powerful .50 calibers’ and asking for an unrealistic delay on trim controls, to prevent online abuse? As I see it, the biggest contributors from a third party point of view are the skinners and campaign writers that develop for the offline market and the creators of third party utilities like DCG, Mission Mate and Mat Manager – again developed for Offline play…
If you genuinely believe that Onliners make up 50% of IL2 users…there are an awful lot of them hiding away…IL2 sold nearly 500,000 units in the West – are there really 250,000 people flying on Hyperlobby on a regular basis?
I’m not sure I understand?

Aside from the obvious distaste I have when people compare something as trivial as a game with something as serious as Malaria and Aids – I really don’t understand your comparison…
I can see you’re really getting into the swing of things now…plagues…meteor storms…we are talking about a game here you know! Talk about Hyperbole…I understand that its important to the proportion of the community that flies online, on Hyperlobby and ASE…but I am making the point that we can’t frame the entire debate in those terms…there is a bigger (much bigger) picture to consider…

On the contrary I have an entirely rational perspective…A few onliners are concerned about the Sound Mod, a few onliners aren’t concerned about the sound mod, the sound mod doesn’t affect any offline players…that’s perspective…trying to convince everyone that the game is in its terminal death throes is a lack of proper perspective…
If fairness and honesty was that important to the online community – the sound mod wouldn’t be an issue…as no-one would use it online and you would all be able to trust each other; as it is you are obviously quite happy flying with people who are keen to cheat you, as soon as the tools and the opportunity were made available to them…Small wonder I prefer to fly with friends and family rather than with some anonymous user names from around the globe.

Zapatista I understand you feel passionately about this subject, but it does not reflect well on your argument or point of view if you need to resort to childish insults and flaming at every opportunity…I am sure you have valid points to make…but lets try and keep things from getting personal, please.

Absolutly not. I know a lot of casual offline simmers that bought the sim, played a bit, then garbaged it. Number of buyers isn't representative of offliners.
In fact, neither you or me do know the number of actual active offliners.... so please don't pretend they represent 95% of the players... you just don't know.

You can have a better way to count. Currently almost 25% to 30% of the players each night play AW (Airforce War). All AW players are registered, go on AW site and count.... you'll get around 1/4 (or less) of the number of online players.... except casual players of course.

I did say that?.... I said exactly the contrary... please don't distord my words.
Just ask yourself a question: how many planes, cockpits, maps, skins, tools, missions, campaign, online wars were made by onliners from the begining of the sim up to now?
Whitout this work, The sim would have been far to be as important as it is today. It would probably be unsupported today, and played only by a few nostalgics.... maybe with a small second life with a small modder community like CFS3 for example... but not more.

In any case, the debate is biased. Offliners and "free modders" have all what they want... why would they deny to the onliners some real protection in 4.09 (which is all they can hope) ? Give me any good bloody reason?

You just forget the biggest part of the third party contribution: planes, cockpit and maps... (it's funny how everybody forget it easilly). You also forget the online wars, which represent a tremendous work and are player by thousands of players.
Besides... All the skin and mission creators I know are onliners....

Either you don't know about all this (then you don't know much about IL2 world), or you conveniently forget it... just to proove your point.

well, there are several thousand who would argue that... and to be quite frank, it is people like yourself who will finish the community off, co-existance is entirely possible, nay, desired by most. however you and your ilk will not let this happen and will instead stir with the insults and accusations when you get righteously owned online.

nice? hahaha that's a good one zap. real good. oh my sides.
how old are you exactly? the quality of your insults and the way you behave is reminiscent of an upset infant.

The phrase "never argue with a fool, they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" applies.. rational people, both pro and anti-modders.. lets let it be. We have our differences. Let the idiots waste bandwidth with their petty insults, while the rest of us, play our own favorite flavor of game.

The whiners can continue to do what they do best.. whine.

is it ground hog day where you live ? you keep spinning around in circles chasing your own tail

and what with all these RTFM errors with you lot, if you cant be bothered learning the quote system for online forums, dont expect people to to decompile the soup of text you posted and try and find something meaningful in it.

you'r getting less coherent the more you post,

lol you'r reacting like Inspector Dreyfus in the pink panther movies

drooling a bit, getting a few twitches ?

try and focus on the thread subject, its always posted at the beginning of the thread in the title

chasing my tail? where exactly am i chasing my tail by pointing out that you are the kind of reprobate that will finish the community off with insults and accusations of cheating when you get owned by honest fliers online? thats a new point.
and there is no manual here, i use the qoute system as i want to. you are having the same problems as with stalker when he answered your "points" individually, i made it easier for you by putting it in bold you evidently need the help.

really dear? that's interesting. unfortunately, focus on this thread is for evidence of cheating. you have still failed to produce this. i do not lack focus on this. i do lack any evidence on what you proclaim, but not evidence of your personality.

bill, you're of course right. but then the idiots are left to do all the talking when they should be shown the door to let the reasonable people get on with it.

Im sry Rama.

I was beeing sarcastic as i agree with everything u said.


Was just trying to show where thoose promodder arguments fail. Arguments that there are 95% more offliners than onliners, wich btw is pretty outdated figures by now. And the claim that onliners dont play any significant role in the grand sceme of things.

Unfortunately, the mods of this forum aren't doing what they should do ... modding, and hooking those out for a couple days vacation off the forum, who decide to use insults as the main part of their argument.

If we leave those who care to, to blather on and stew in their verbal diaherrea - alone - , they will be revealed for what they are, and their arguments will be shown to be weak at best.

It's a diminishing audience interested in this whole controversy anyway - those who care, have already picked a side to be on, there are damn few fence-sitters to convince one way or the other left, and what remains in terms of discussion will dwindle to a mutual troll-fest, as it has already.

The damage is done, one way or the other, for better or for worse depending on your view-point.. Pick a side, pick up your flavor of game, and enjoy it, whether 'Vanilla' or 'Heavenly Hash'.

Does Zapatist have to point out, yet again, where those proofs are located, or can u read back?

Seriously.

well... with you up to a point - they are allowing discussion of the matter, futile as that may be, it is still something to be encouraged. maybe that's just me and my wishful thinking, but drawing lines doesn't do a great deal. i guess sides have pretty much been chosen, but it's the amount of venom that will determine whether a reconciliation is ever possible, or will these grudges be taken into BoB.

he hasn't pointed out where they are one single time baron. i am not an imbecile. the only things in his posts are insults. the one track posted has now been removed. try again.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...63-asleep3.jpg

This debate is GETTING.....

BORING.ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ !!!

But its a great opportunity to Plug a Great server>>



Lets get back to what we love the best .

Want a fun server??

FOR THOSE THAT ACTUALLY DO FLY FULL SWITCH SETTINGS ONLINE...

I run a fun Little server called Guts&Glory in

hyper lobby.
its on the bored as :
Guts_Glory

Bring your skills only....

The server is set to run the Sim the way it was designed to be flown .

We try to minimize file conflicts by ruining the server at these settings.


The server settings are at: CheckRuntime=2

checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1
checkTimeSpeedDifferense=0.02
checkTimeSpeedInterval=2
checkRuntime=2

[MaxLag]
farMaxLagTime=0.5
nearMaxLagTime=0.5



Now if your Looking to get a group of like minded folks together to fly in a nice full switch server with good pilots,that are at a competitive skill level.
That want to fly the Sim as it was designed to be flown...

Please join us.

The maps are fast paced with balanced plane sets from.

WW I ------> late war running 24/7

Find us in hyper As Guts_Glory.
Get skins at

www.RaVeNSkins.com

So where are all the tracks? I only say ONE link to the "Santa Claus" Rapid Share track and that file was already removed by the time I got to it. This thread had a VERY simple premise...to provide tracks of uncontested proof of modding of Il2. I am VERY disappointed in those of you that turned this thread into a flame war. I am also disappointed that only ONE track was provided in this thread. I was eagerly awaiting the viewing pleasure of watching that Stuka laden with 4 MK108s and HVAR's and the Storch dropping parafrags! So where are the tracks? People say that cheating is so prevalent today. I have been away from Il2 for a few months. Let me see it.

So what's your gut feeling on this...do you think that there are any cheater's on-line?

Since it seems we might be having a civil discussion I'll chime in. My gut feeling, yes, there is cheating going on. There was cheating going on before this whole debacle though. Is there MORE cheating since the mods, maybe, but if there is I think it's still a very small amount. It's possible that it may increase but I doubt it. Most people who play this sim are into it for a specific reason, be it flight simulation (as this is one of the best on the pc), or history buffs. Either way most are in it for realism and acuracy, those that are in it mearly to beat the other guy either don't stay in long or are not worth fretting over as they are very sad individuals indeed. I may be a little pie-in-the-sky about my opinions but I think the vast majority of people who play il2 don't want to cheat, heck, most want it HARDER. Those that want to cheat will be rooted out and won't have anyone to play with, they'll go back to thier shooters and cheat there eventually.

To review, yes there is cheating, yes it's possible to make more cheats with the mods, no it is not a plague of cheating, people will not automatically cheat just cause they can, those that want to cheat cheated before and will cheat after.

no prize there, return to starting point and try again

if we are going to discuss apples and oranges, it doesnt work if you paint an orange green and start referring to it as an apple from then on. dont panic now if you cant understand that either, that was an analogy again. if you are going to use your own "special posting system" here using your own "special words" (like you seem to have your own private definition of what cheating means to you), then dont expect the rest of the universe to change its accepted conventions to decipher it and understand you. btw, it seems you put about the same lack of effort into trying to communicate here whatever thoughts are floating around in your head.

i have tried to keep this simple for you:

the question: evidence of 'cheating using the soundmod' hack

the answers given in this thread:

- links demonstrating cheating with the use of the new soundmod file hack is indeed possible, and having modified files can not be detected anymore when you join online servers, examples have been posted
- specific examples of the type of cheats that can be used were given, mirrors, gyro's, improved distance visibility etc.. also explained to you that cheats like that can not be seen by other users making a track of what happens in the server at the time.
- demonstrated non authorized planes in full real restricted servers being used, and is completely possible now.
- franken monster plane examples given, including how their use can have several advantages (ie a form of cheating)
- others from your own hack crowd confirmed here and "there" that checksum 2 doesnt work, even if you keep doubting it.

by your own admission you say you dont fly online, and the center of your argument you keep repeating is "i havnt seen it therefore it doesnt exist", cant you see the absurdety of that ?

you seem to expect from me that i am going to post links to some of the actual hack files, or spend half a day creating some horror planes myself just because some doubting Thomas on some internet forum cant use google. there have also been notes from the forum mod not to give specific information here on where and how it is being done. put some effort in yourself if you still cant figure this out with all the information you have been given, you seem to expect us to keep wasting our time to spoon feed you.

i dont have a problem with anything you said there, the main issue is that it has created 2 opinions in the il2 community

group 1: doesnt want to do anything about the problem, many are even here loudly claiming this doesnt create any problems whatsoever, and if it affects other users negatively they dont care. all they want to do is keep tinkering with it like a mechano set.
group 2: wants to close pandora's box again so that the problem doesnt get worse over time, as is already the case now where week by week more aspects of the game are altered. this groups prime concern is that they want to have the same unaltered files/features used by all people that fly online, when they join open servers with other il2 users on it from all around the world.

zap, give up with this trying to call me an idiot line. it got old pages ago.
theone link is dead, and was apparently a cheat not related to the soundhack, miss that bit being repeated? the cheats you mention, such as mirrors, are more an advantage than a cheat - an advantage like having track ir, or a huge monitor or equipment that varies between users. cheats are fm/dm/wm changes - things like having mk108's on a p11.c. the frankenplanes, well if you think having something like a different cowling on a 109 is a cheat then fine. as i've said it doesn't change fm/dm/wm, but you ignore this every time. you may a point with the removed headrest, but when you start going on about clearer perspex textures that's clutching at straws. whilst i don't fly online i do look around forums and such for people saying "w00t i got a supersonic gladiator". apparently cheating, from what i read, is possible (and has been for oh so long), but it requires more talent than the average user. i have repeatedly asked for pm's because i know the trouble that would follow from posting it in forums. you missed the point of this thread from the start. evidence. anyway, this thread had taken a turn for the better til you returned.
the only time that has been wasted is all the time you chose to try and turn this into a flamefest instead of a proper discussion.
good day to you, and may your turkey be burnt and dry.