"Who the hell needs rolling grass, tank gun recoil, trains modeled in extreme detail, whole map of SE England..."

+1 and I'm not happy to say that.

Too much developing time has been lost on non vital features or elements.
Just an example, the Me108. I personnally do like this aircraft, but what is its purpose in a combat sim, as it was a liaison aircraft.

I've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim.. I've done research for a couple of sim companies and beta tested quite a few games/simulations. I can tell you with all honesty that the scope of what COD developers tried to create is beyond what can be realistically developed in a time frame that will not lag generations behind hardware development. I was involved in Beta testing Falcon 4.0 and the goals were quite similar.. and after putting in enormous amount of work, Hardware 3D came along and rendered (no pun intended) much of the work useless since it used a software 3D engine. The scope of it was massive as is COD.

The game is not where it should have been for release.. I don't have to tell you that.I'll give you my opinions based on some experience as to what happened and why. The game was developed over a long period of time by a limited number of staffers. It was not the primary project, it was developed almost as a side job while other projects were being done for a significant part of the time involved. There were times when it was more or less shelved for periods of time. There was people joining and leaving..other people having to get up to speed and people who were experts on certain areas moved on..its what happens in software development. The original goals were worked on and many very cool things were developed and update and hardware 3D technology and CPU powers expanded. I'd bet that the idea of potentially creating a full 3D war game..ground, sea, and air, integrated successfully for the first time in this kind of Fidelity and graphics. Some of those goals were counterproductive.. some of the detail on the ground sucked away resources that a pure flight sim could have used elsewhere.

Eventually the project was on the verge of losing its funding and the resources were going to be moved on to more profitable ventures. So, it became fish or cut bait time.. and the guys still working on it began to try and pull everything together and disabled anything they hadn't yet implemented. A date was set and they began to move towards it and then the Epilepsy Filter issue came up and made an already bad situation even worse..7 years of anticipation made it just about impossible to have a well received release because there is no way that everything that had been talked about could be reay on release.

There was a reason why they game was released when it was, those pressures usually come from the producers who are funding things.. since a couple of weeks of patching have made a world of difference, its obvious that they were not in a position where 2 weeks was going to be allowed. The package got out the door and we have what we have. I for one played IL2 from the beginning and still do. And I can see the core potential of this sim to take over where IL2 has left off. There is 100X more headroom on this engine to really bring in some great things over the next weeks, months, and even years. I think anyone can see that.

I think that the time line they have laid out is a good one.. their priorities are in order.. performance and core hardware support is first, to be followed by fixes to game play. The fixes they have made in ust the last couple of weeks have made an enormous difference for most people. The thing that people need to realize is that PC FLight sims are a dying breed.. you won't see western based houses build them to this level of detail because the time required exceeds the return when you are paying western engineer salaries. You won't see many of them because development houses can code for PS3 and Xbox and get a much better return for far less effort.

There are serious issues to sort out. Performance and hardware support are the biggest in my opinion. Multiplayer would be next, and while they are doing that, there will be a host of smaller game play fixes that get implemented while they are "under the hood" working on other things. Once they reach a certain level of performance and stability, then they can polish this for months if not years and it will still keep getting better. Some people are fixated on the smallest of game play issues while there are far more serious problems to devote resources to initially.. you need to have a little patience and common sense..

If you are a flight sim fan, you have to realize that simulations like this will not be coming out anymore, for a good reason..they are a bear to build and don't give the quick return that other titles do. I bought 2 copies, about $65 US. The game is not where I want it to be, but I understand that it can be more than I ever hoped in time. I hope they succeed..

I think you will find that they have a stable of 3D models that may not be fully integrated into the game, but they are in some state of completion.. When 3D artists are done with one project and they are still being paid you assign them another project.. The guy that did the Me108 was not doing that instead of coding the multiplayer, or coding the CEM system... Totally different skill sets.

JG14 Jagr that was well said. I agree with everything you've written. I have been on the Il2 sim for the last 10 or so years and it did get better and better. This will too and I must say it certainly has come forward leaps and bounds over the last few weeks. You only have to read my posts to see that I went from a madman going nutso to someone who is enjoying what we have at the moment, knowing that other fixes will come. I really really really want multiplayer to be fixed but now I'm prepared to wait.

Doesn't mean I'm happy that many things didn't work at the start but now I'm more relaxed about it. :-)

+100

S!

So in short a good sim spoiled by crap allocation of resources and too much staff coming and going? Just hoping CoD will lift off and the potential of the engine is unleashed, gradually and with time. Quantity is not quality, especially in a flight sim.

Am I the only one here who is astounded at how we have super-detailed planes with super-detailed damage models and we are able to run missions with like 200 aircraft AI controlled and NO lag? Try doing so in IL-2 1946... I am really impressed at whatever coding has gone into making so many advanced aircraft run smoothless on a PC that struggles with IL-2 1946 and more than 40 aircraft

200 planes? BS. Most I've managed is 130+ planes, and the slowdowns, as I've recently found, are severe (unplayable). 125 He111s with 18 Me110s as escort can bomb London ok, but I had to remove the 24 Hurries that intercepted them because I was seeing 6fps regularly. The CPU can handle only so much abuse.

Well, perhaps not whilst bombing London...

Still, point is that IL-2 struggles more with less planes. That is what I've found out.

what we have right now is more or less empty shell and with its set of problems. Both technical and design ones. I can accpet that some people are big fans and are happy even with empty buckett, hoping, that it will be filled by somebody in due time...but that somebody has to have budget. Budget doesn't come with poorly managed game development. So it will not be my fault if COD series is no more because I criticise it, but it will be 1C, Maddox games (whatever has left of it) and project manager's fault.
Oleg Maddox has made himself quite a respectable name in domain of combat flight simulation, I'm sure he will make sure it remains so. with this or any other project.

+1

One of the most sober and level-headed posts I've read on this forum for a looong time. I agree with everything written above. Stop looking for scape goats and answers, above are your answers albeit not from an official source.

+1

I think we have digressed again big time. So i'll bring it back on track.

When is this mini update out?

etc
+1
I will bye a copy when I get home from vacation next week. In september I will hopfully have the hardware and time to get airborne. 1C should have started with a civil air project IMHO. A more mature audience. Kids today are to much focused on quick fixes and rapid gameplay.

See you all in the ether in september!

Viking

Helicon, "all is doomed!" and "the devs are stupid!" posts are not nearly as specific or predictive as you seem to think they are. I've read your posts. They are unfailingly pointless.

This is a perfect example:

Exactly what part of that whine-fest is going to help improve this game? Where are the remedies?

Yes what a bust, AAA + 18 Me110 + 125 He111 bombing LONDON with 30 bombs each = 3750 bombs, and u get slowdowns.


Seriously, someone need to sack those hack programmers over there.

David, unfortunately, all of us will bear none stop whining for a long while. That's just how it is with an unfinished game.

It's not about conversations being productive - for every person that buys the game and feels cheated, they will vent. For every fan that has been following CloD for years, they will vent even more. For every fan boy post, there will be a countering whining post.

Perhaps we should create a Criticisms sub forum, this way mods can easily move the de-railed threads into that forum and let the conversations go on there. In any case, you are free to not read these threads, as it's pretty clear by the first post how the whole thread will turn out.

Yep, and that would probably be very useful knowing when/if there are no developers doing WWII combat flight sims.

I know, and I have decided to respond to some of the more relentless whiners.

BoB2 can do over 400 without slowdown, and it's what, 5 years old, 6 ?

Due to this brilliant level headed post I decided to further the course of CoD and brought my brother a copy of the game even though his pc probably wont be able to run it :D

U mean this BoB2?

Honestly?

Nice sandpa....ehrm! landscape!:grin:

I wish they could transplant WOV's campaign into CoD (or IL-2 for that matter).

I for my part was and i am a simmer. Started with the first "sims" on a C 64 i for myself can say i cant see WWII sims en masse and i am very happy to own another great sim. I speak only for myself

So i see what huge step forward the dev team made. I really love the detail i find on these great airplanes and the love its in it and was/is made by the team. Luthier knows that this sim is not finished but there is a roadmap he wrote down and the first thing that has to be done is performance. Sure i cant wait for the add ons or the Bf 109E-4 or hopefully one time the Westland Whirlwind. But i am confident that this sim has a great potential.

I do not want offend anybody, this is my personal view. I am really pleased to play it now, two weeks ago it was unplayable for me, sure i turned off clouds, shadows and grass but its very well playable for me. Sure i miss clouds, shadows etc but i know and i have seen it with the latest patch luthier wont let me down and i wont let him down or critisize him in any way.

Salute and to all a Happy Easter.

I just said exactly what the other poster said - just more concisely. As usual you behave like a childish fanboy, so tell me what did I post that was incorrect? Do you think that the game was released early? Yes or No please.
Do you think that the rescources spent modeling the tanks and ground details such as grass could be better spent optimizing the rendering of buildings in the distance and reduction of lag? Yes or no please.
Do you think the combat animations and the other content that is not implemented such as the tank animations and models, or pilot bailout animations could of been better spent upgrading the water detail or giving us a functioning weather system? Yes or No please.
Do you think that the time spent on displaying each bullet hole in a arframe visually where it hit could of been better spent by refining the AI or improving performance? Yes or No please.

As usual all you do is troll, its getting really tiresome/childish. I have made plenty of complements to the devs and when they get something right I always give them credit. Also I dont criticise unless I have a suggestion/solution, its kinda sad you completely overlook any evidence/info you disagree with and come in to irritate others who are legitimatly discussing a product they have invested in. Also love as usual you make a statement pulled from thin air because you are too lazy to read, everyone one of the major problems we have in game I said before the game was even released would be a problem, also they way they are fixing it is the way I more or less suggested. On release you bitched/flamed me because I said the game and dev feedback smacks of a lack of long term planning/structure/efficiency. I would say the majority agree with me there, so its comical you pick out my post to whine about when everyone else here said nearly exactly the same thing (the game was released to early and wasnt developed in a efficient manner interms of content/optimization). Also I never said the devs were "stupid" (because you make up bullshit quotes all the time, it makes you look like an ass hat) I said before release the methods they are using are not only not inline with what they themselves said earlier - but would not provided the experience that they wanted for the game and created an overly narrow base for expansion.
Dont really expect a reply to this because you nearly always slink off after trolling and I have never seen you post more than a few sentences in a row.

Sorry, I wasn't running from you, I was living my life.

I think the devs worked on the things they felt were important. If that doesn't match up with what you feel they should have been working on, I do not care. It's not your game. When you produce a game like this, you can set the priorities.

In the meantime I'm sure we'll see the constant bitchfest. Good luck with that.

I hope they sell "plane packs" to supplement their income. That is what I would do, release some paid addons. I have no problem with that. Just keep the price decent.

Hits several nails square on the head.

Should probably be made a sticky....:)

The landscape in BoB2 looks better than Il-2 1946 from altitude, so go figure.
Plus....
the campaign is better
the skins are better
the sounds are largely better
the AI is the best ever
and the last four points apply to CloD as well. :cool:

2-weeks, be sure.

Too dark to say, could be any sim with such a dark screenshot.

I mean this BoB2

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/y...aign/Dover.jpg

http://www.a2asimulations.com/bob_de.../xshot_651.jpg

http://www.a2asimulations.com/bob_de.../xshot_279.jpg

http://www.a2asimulations.com/bob_de.../xshot_423.jpg

Sure, doesn't look as good as CloDo, but then again it's an old game, and it can handle adlertag, that CloDo can't (yet).

+1 ...and the speech engine is awesome!

Maybe I am a fanboy but I pretty much like IL-2 CoD. Would play it much more if I would get my TrackIR 5 back from guarantee replacement procedure.

I find it hilarious to read forums when I remember how people touted they would play 500$ or what not if they could become a beta tester of IL-2 CoD.

IL-2 CoD is here to stay (hopefully), and maybe the best thing You can do to help IL-2 CoD to stay would be to begin to make missions, skins, and stuff for it.