yes please realism above all

Signed also. The tach was fine.

realistic instruments check box needed

Agree with the realism stuff. Add a "Historical Crappy instruments" or "Super duper perfect all weather instruments" in the realism settings for the needles jumping and compass manual adjustment. We can discuss later how much the needle should jump and if is not better having the compass on the ground on the correct position (lets say adjusted by your ground crew) with manual adjustment later when flying as needed.

About the Negative cutout, get more real data and feedback from the players, it seems even when flying perfectly level there where issues, maybe some CEM bug.

Waiting for my STEAM copy on the USA release date (same for SouthAmerica)

Absoloutely agree! The 'oscillation' and deviation was too exaggerated but could be part of damage/fault modelling.

See, that's what's really starting to P+++ ME OFF!. Could you please upload a youtube file of you, in person, flying a RL spitfire or hurricane. Please hold up a sign that reads: "[Your nick] greets the banana forum". Then focus the cam on the rpm indicator. Thank you.

In any other event, I tend to believe the developers because they FKIN INTRODUCED IT in the first place! I'm pretty damn sure that they didn't just think: "Oh well, let's just add some random dial movement, but only on the rpm gauge. This will be awsum fun guyz". Right?

In any way, I hope this will be reverted and we'll get back the proper stuff. I mean, the 2s bomb arming delay was also a great improvement towards realism in Il2-1946 (though it threw certain people's mad skip bombing skillz off, despite others adapting in less than 15 min.) and we should continue to stay on this track, amirite?

Also, lol @ the guy on page 4 or 5 who doesn't really understand what his "hurricane pilot" writes.

I agree, keep it as real as possible please. All the others can go play BoP if this sim is too confusing. :)

+1

100% for realism!!!!

+1

Maybe this will pee you off too......quoted from TD member in the latest patch thread....take it up with him and maybe.....the pilots?



To those stating things like bring back the bouncing tacho needles etc because they were more realistic etc sorry but that is BS.

Real pilots are providing input. in this case the input comes from a current Spitfire MKVII and MKXVI pilot.

The alteration of the G cut out comes from multiple pilots, a Merlin and DB601/605 engine restorer, a current Hurricane II, Spitfire II pilot and a Hurricane I pilot. So before you start making sweeping statements like the devs are responding to 'the few' whinners then check your facts.

The devs have direct access to a number of current warbird pilots. One for instance is current on the following types:

Winjeel,Wirraway,Spitfire MKVII and MKXVI, P51D,P40E,P40F,Hudson,Harvard, and Vampire.

ehmm... is this blue text some poor hoax attempt? It's BS but the same post lists the pilots the devs (WHO FKIN INTRODUCED THE BOUNCING NEEDLES FFS!) have access to?

anyways, video plx or it didn't happen and the devs win.

maybe I should just go to bed and hope not too much more will be broken by the "like-it-easy"s come monday.

And when you wake up, try not to get out the wrong side of the bed again.

Yeah, I'll try to.

There is one thing that I never see mentioned in these discussions and that is the fact that while the Devs are using input from pilots currently flying these restored aircraft, do the restored aircraft use original cockpit instruments?

While I don't doubt for one minute the input they are providing the Dev is correct, I would like to hear whether or not the aircraft they are flying have the ORIGINAL dials linked to ORIGINAL sensors, or are they using current day technology to meet the flying regulations of which ever country the RESTORED aircraft are registered in?

The 'bouncy needle' as you describe it is just eye candy. It didn't affect me one iota. Geoffrey Wellum adjusted his PP for RPM at 2650 before combat and left it at that untill combat was done and dusted, I don't recall him talking about RPM other than in terms of preparation. (How he managed to set the 50 with a neeedle bouncing all over the place could be questionable though....:grin:)

As for the neg G, I find it far easier to manage in CoD than the Early Spit mod packs for IL1946 which are more sensitive. The needle isn't a big issue and not worth arguing over.

excellent point

+1 for realism :grin:

+1 for realism!

More traing for young players to understand whats happening.

I have no idea whether the dials and cut-out were more realistic before, but I know they seem more lifeless and uninteresting to me now after the latest patch.

If it were me I would have toned down the needles a bit, but just because I found it a little annoying the way they constantly flickered like that. But I would have left the engine cut-out like it was, if only because I found it a nice change from the old series and it made me fly more carefully.

I'm hoping that, as others have suggested, it was just a quick fix, and at some point the harder job of just toning down the effects a little will be done.

If that's the case, I'd rather the devs didn't take that more reactionary approach to changing things, and that they decide not to do that with other issues in the future. I want them to leave things how they think they should be, until conclusive proof is provided that it should realistically be some other way.

And when something is endlessly debateable, despite all the differing 'proofs', I want the devs to make the decision how it stands, not the community. I want the sim to be made according to the developers own vision, not mob rule.

That's the real issue for me.

I think the community should have as much input as possible, but at some point the developers have to also say, if it has to be done one way or another and it can't be made optional, and we just have to toss a coin to decide which way, we're not going to toss a coin, we're going to do it the way we think it should be done.

I'm trying to remember some examples from the old series where I thought the developers compromised on that too much, but I can't remember what they were. It has happenened before I'm sure, but not often. And it's not a road I'd like to see them go down more so now.

I personally do appreciate the expert input from the community, but I don't want them to run the show in terms of what's 'real' and what isn't. None of it's real at the end of the day, it's a simulation, of things that are often just too variable and inconsistent to be able to make definitive statements on.

I'm not saying the developers are infallible and that they can't make mistakes. But if and when they do, that's when the community can provide irrefutable proof to correct them, as has been done.

But, again, and finally, when there's no conclusive proof on some infinitely arguable aspect of this sim (and I'm not even saying that was the case in this instance, I'm talking more generally), I'd rather see the developers version of how they think things should be, not the version according to what some vocal element of the community wants or thinks is right.

the flying ones don't have original sensors for safety reasons, old instruments belong to the museums i suppose

I agree that realism should be the watchword - this is not an argument for or against what has been changed, as I don't know the facts of how they performed at the time. But if we do have solid information on something being a certain way (including discussion in this forum) then that should be what goes into the game.

That's a good question actually.

Overall, i'm all for realism to the extent of masochist frustration :-P

Just provide a suitable option to turn such things on/off for when we want to have a relaxed sortie and for people who like flying in a more casual manner and everything is perfect.

This issue is not a red vs blue issue. I've been a 190 driver all my life in Il2 but i find myself flying mostly Hurricanes in CoD.

This is also not a vendetta between the full-switch and the relaxed difficulty simmers. Everyone should be able to enjoy the sim/game the way they prefer, without forcing their preferences down each other's throats.

The real issue is this: let's make this as realistic as possible, while providing enough options to turn off the difficult stuff in order to appeal to the more casual gamer or the newcomers to the hobby, so that we satisfy our hardcore customer base and also secure new sales from "non-veterans" at the same time.

I like flying full switch, it doesn't make me better it's just my gameplay style. Other people like flying with reduced settings, it doesn't make them inferior. In order for the sim to thrive, everyone should be able to do either of the above.

Long story short, i agree with the poster who said that this is probably a stop-gap fix while the dev team is dealing with more pressing issues. Rome was not built in one day and IL2 didn't get released in the state that IL2:1946 is currently at. The important things is to keep tweaking and improving CoD as we go and the frequency of patches is a very encouraging sign.

+1 for realism

I was really enjoying watching the dancing revs.

This is what gets me a little bit, all the people here who have time to be adamant that the real gauges would bounce around like they did in this sim before the patch would be too busy working on their landing technique if the dynamics were modelled fully.

Consider this also: The VSI doesn't exhibit the same behaviour as the altimeter and ASI - how the hell could that happen?

-1e9 for lack of realism.

W.

So you are happy with the way the Hurri and spit neg G handles now in the beta patch?

Yes, please keep the realism - at least as an option!!

I don't own the game yet because my computer broke and I'm waiting on parts, so just looking at Youtube videos for now. :(

I posted earlier that I've seen a whole lot of real-life aircraft tachometers in operation, since I fixed airplanes professionally for years. Most of those tachs were mechanical, not electric. I have never seen a tachometer needle bounce around like I'm seeing in the videos, not under any circumstance. However... I'm willing to accept the possibility that British and Italian tachometers of the era could have differed from anything else I've ever seen. It's also very likely that any currently airworthy warbirds will have modern instruments, so we can't divine the truth of the matter by looking at in-cockpit recordings now.

Ok. If the devs have evidence that tach needles of the day oscillated that badly, then let's keep it that way in the game.

But I can't help thinking it's very strange that in all the books I've read about WWII aviation - with so many reports from combat pilots comparing their aircraft to more modern planes - not once have I come across a phrase anything like "Of course, back then our engine instruments were so inaccurate you couldn't tell exactly what RPM it was turning, so we just set the throttle and prop controls to 'close enough' and got on with it."

+1 for keeping it real!

+1 keep the realism yes.

+1 for REALISM.

+1

People should learn instead of whine!

LOL … Dood you need to watch that blood pressure.
and
LOL … you’re going to pop a vein.

That’s exactly what they do, they try new stuff that’s challenging and fun. Remember the Airacobra in IL2, I love the Airacobra but it spun like a top if you stalled it, LOL but they fixed it. The P51’s engine quits if a bullet gets near it, yet the same engine in other planes handle damage differently, oh will. The programmers read lots of books to research WW2 aircraft performance data; I hope you didn’t think all the programmers were WW2 pilots and mechanics; they do lots of mathematical calculations to determine the flight and damage models. But in the end they take an educated guess which is just fine, it’s the only choose they have. Have some faith in Oleg and his team; if they screw something up they’ll get it figured out and fix it.

Here’s some information about the tachometer in the Spitfire and Hurricane. The Rolls-Royce Merlin used an electric tachometer not a mechanical tachometer. When the needle sways back and forth it is normally a sign that the generator that powers it is going bad or the receiving unite in the tachometer is out of calibration. All the pilots would do is average the reading, no need to panic. The odds of this happening are rare at best, that’s not to say it can’t happen. In the 32 years that I have been flying vintage aircraft I’ve only had one electric tachometer fail, but it was 60 years old, I guess it was overdue for a failure.

I’ll buy COD after the beta testing is completed this summer. I’m looking forward to this game, I remember the good times and good people I met playing IL2. I think I’ll reinstall it on my new computer, only this time I can max everything out.

Have you even seen a cable driven tacho on any vehicle of any kind?

I highly doubt it.

I have.

Just another manifestation of the twisted mantra chanted by guys hiding in their cellar playing video games... to wit... "Harder must be more real".

+1 Keep it real.

With a switch for people who aren't man enough to handle it.

Maybe give your sources for the points in question.

+1 on this.

the "Frogeye"

http://www.british-cars.net/mg-midge...2158239966.htm

and




"Crankshaft: Clockwise rotation viewed from the rear (supercharger end). One piece balanced, six-throw machined forging of nitrogen-hardened chrome-molybdenum steel. Crankpins and journals are bored and fitted with oil retaining caps and the webs are drilled to allow oil to be fed axially from each end of the crank to to the main journal and connecting-rod bearings. Drive to the reduction gear pinion is from a serrated flange bolted to the front end of the crankshaft. The rear end of the crankshaft is connected by a flexible torsion shaft (spring drive) to the supercharger driving gear and also provides drives to the auxiliary gearbox, oil pumps, coolant pumps, fuel pump, tachometer and propeller constant-speed unit. Angular movement of this spring shaft is limited by stops attached to the crankshaft."

http://www.thunderboats.org/history/history0325.html (Griffon)

+1 for realism, make the simpler version an option

Yeah, realism rocks :)

I don't know guys, but the merlins cutting out in level flight because of turbulence sure wasn't right....

From the quote of the infamours Hurricane I pilot:

So it's right as it is now it seems...

+1

There are switches to allow people to fly with aids etc. please don't enforce the dumbing down for those that choose to fly full real.

+1

+1 i want realism!

I think before any changes are made to the realisim of the sim..it should only be backed by techical evidence, not what players feel is right. If they tone down any of the game settings then this should be a clickable option. Pilot notes are not accurate as they can vary from person to person and are open to misinturpuration, and someone trying to remember what described what it was like 40/50 years ago is not accurate neither. Aces High 2 is very good at this, and will make changes to the FM when someone provides hard evidence.

I have never come accross this about the gauges, and would be intersted to read some information on it. I have driven a 432 and scimitar tank and from what I remember the gauges did not bounce around and they were mechanical gauges for the RPM.

well, we must keep in our mind , that the devs might have received new information and thus changed the behaviour(->in order to have it closer to reality) with the neg g cutouts.
If that is the case, we shall accept it, even if it makes it easier..if its more realistic and easier that is fine i guess?
well I hope devs will always keep realism as their priority.
(same as with mechanical tachometer, I hope they improve the mechanical tachometer code to exchange the electrical ones later.)
Always stay open minded, don't insist on the old system if it was less realistic:)

Of all the hundreds of threads I've read on this forum, this one is unique in how everyone has agreed with each other. Look at the thread title, and the countless posts that say we all want realism (where it's sensible to have it).

Regarding the needles, surely they wouldn't have gone to all the effort of making them bounce if they didn't do that in real life, so I would be surprised if it's realistic to suddenly remove the bouncing effect. Although if they bounced a lot in real life, I think it's good idea to reduce the effect a little because it's much harder to read the dials on a small PC screen that it would have been in real life.

+10
If it's not broken, don't fix it :evil:

+1

Agree 100% with OP.

Cheers

/Ted

PS

I waited over a year to post on something really worthwhile and important.
I´ve always had faith in the developers to make this sim shine, so taking something away is a bit, well, sad really.

Anyway, keep up the good job.

I am kind of getting fed up with this. We go from one extreme to another in these patches. A few people moan about something and suddenly it is changed...not just a small amount but drastically.

The whole negative G cutout was not an issue per sa more of a very slight tweak so it wasn't on such a hairline when flying straight and level in a well trimmed aircraft. What we have now is a Spitfire that can match the 109 in a dive.

The bouncy instruments is probably a compromise. No one can validate whether the needles bounced as much as they do in the game so rather than drastically get rid of the bounce completely just reduce the amount of bounce slightly.

It's a game of compromise not one of extremes. I want realism but at the same time not one of us can validate the exact details of a Spit Mk1.

So Luthier get a grip and rather than go from one extreme to another just tweak slightly for the greater good!

+1 for sure

If people asked for digital display in cockpit would you do so ?
please keep on track ...;-)

+1
Im with HamishUK, If peoples complain about mechanical instruments do not means that we want electrical one, this is the oposite extreme. Mechanical intrument aould have been programed much better, and do not vibrate for all the event in the game in same intensity, wind guts, engine failures etc...

Thank GOD for you and this post.

And im not religious.

Please dont let this become the sim that becomes known for the accuracy of its ignorance to historical values, purely from console types whining about nonsense.

Please, dont end up with the lunatics running the asylum.

Yes, keep the realism, the cut out was not a problem here. But I'm wondering why the Spit and the other planes are shaking the epileptic dance above 10.000ft. Since the last patch the shaking is slightly improved, I think it is caused by the carburetor, but how to avoid the shaking? I don't think that the real pilots were sitting on epileptic machines... :(
Also the instruments shaking is useful, in the real erly Spit, if the rpm needle shakes -100/+100 rpm it means there is a problem with one of the magnetos.

ps
the shaking problem is at full CEM. When you set the full automatic pilot, the shaking disappears, as well the cut out. Maybe the Ai is flying without full CEM?

+1

Please keep the realism,it's what brings the sim to life,do away with it and it becomes just a game not a sim.

Everyone can fly in a game,but to fly a sim is far more challenging,and personally it's why I purchased the COD.

I hope your reading all of these threads Luthier you're customers are politely telling you something that is dear to their hearts.;)

I agree to this (and not only because he's the Old Man) that perhaps the cut out modelling left out inertial behaviour. Ingame it had formerly cut out instantly when the correspondig g was achieved while according to my understanding of the Hurri pilot's quote it was more inert and took some time to take effect.

So if I were dev I would have tried the following:
keep the historic g values for the different modes of cut outs. Apply the corresponding effect in full extent (100%) on engine performance with a time delay of 2secs as described in another thread to be the experienced delay in RL. Apply a smooth transition of mixture leaning between the moment of appearing g level and the full effect of mixture ratio. But this smooth transition should be not linear but rather parabolic or exponential with time. For simplicity one could approach this non linear behaviour by segmenting the transition curve let's say into three of four segments and inbetween the segments it is linear. This allows small gradients in the initial stage and steep gradients when approaching 100% effect of the corresponding cut out level. Then test if it is still sensitive to turbulences and small trim tab movements.

+1 Agree!

1. Realism should always be first priority. Each step away from realism should be an option where we can choose whether or not we want it in game.

War was NOT fair, choose other means than dumbing down realism in case of gameplay balance.

"What we have now is a Spitfire that can match the 109 in a dive."

BS.... go on line and prove it. See if you can hold the same distance from a 109 with both of you performing the same manoeuvre. You have the 109 Maintaining its ATA and RPM with the Hurris and Spitfire both having RPM rapidly drop to <1600RPM and Boost dropping to zero. The 109 pulling combat power and the Hurri and spit pulling stuff all !

If you don't want to go On line then replicate the manoeuvre individually as best as you can starting from the same IAS hold the push for say 15 seconds and then note the IAS ... both the same ?

In the brief tests I have done here are the results. Using the Quick Flight Over Dover as the start point.

BF109E3 Wait for prop pitch to get to the 12 O,Clock setting.
Start from 200Kmh select Max Max ATA
At 300KMH Push progressively forward until 90 degree nose down is achieved over a period of 8 secs
Increase in IAS achieved 100KMH
Av acceleration 12.5KMH per second

Spitfire IIA Prop Full Increase
Start from 100MPH
Select Max Boost
at 140MPH Push progressively forward until 90 degree nose down over a period of 8 secs
Increase in IAS 20MPH
Av acceleration 2.5MPH per Sec

So the Spit gets around 2.5MPH per second and the 109 around 15.5MPH per sec.
Or the BF109 gets a round a 50MPH gain over the Spit in the manoeuver ... hardly "staying with the 109"

Yes agree, realism must be saved.

If its hard work onit:::;)

If this thread wasn't here I would have started it myself. Please, please keep as realistic as possible. I was sad when I read the dancing instrument needles were being removed. I was truly gobsmacked when they first appeared in the video clip released some months ago. Battle of Britain planes that didn't have electronic tachometers shouldn't have them in game purely because of a few peoples dislikes. I do not have any problems reading instruments in CoD and my eyesight is far from brilliant.
The same goes for Spitfire engines under negative G. If they cut out in real life they should do so in game. It is well documented that 109s were generally better aircraft than Spitfires. They were faster, dived better and had cannons and twice the amount of ammunition. It was superior tactics, radar and logistics used by the allies and crass blunders by Goering that won the battle not that Spitfires performed as well or better that 109s. I love flying the Spitfire and to have it as something it wasn't just spoils it.

You should have used 124 mph for start and initiated the dive at 186 mph with the spit to compare.
Would this give the same result???
Also i believe the prop-pitch of the 109 would never be in the 12:0clock position when diving, overspeed comes much too fast.
Further a 45° to 60° dive would be much more realistic, tough not so easy to compare.

I think to compare cut out by diving behind a 109 is not a good base for comparison as both types will have different dive behaviour, cut out or not.

I think: The g values used for cut out evaluation before patch are correct (all historic scources agree on this). They should be kept

I think the behaviour just needed a bit thweaking - the build-up of the effect should by SLIGHTLY made more inert. A small delay between time of g-factor for cut out and the realisation of cut out and a smooth transition between 0% cut out to Cough condition and between cough condition to 100% cut out would have done the trick to have a good representation of push over cut outs while still being insensitive to turbulences.

+100

+1

This would eliminate the problem that some people have with turbolences and keep the realistic limits for cut-out and misfire.

Btw some posters say that the dev may have received new information and that is the reason they changed it ... I doubt that. The release notes clearly state that they felt it was right but they changed it because some confused people felt it was not right.

Same goes for the compass (which was changed it the previous patch).

Make complex instruments optional and bring back the cut-out limit.

+1 on keeping FULL realism.

Remember the mission statement from the developers about wanting to try and create the most realistic flight sim ever?

Go back on that, and you have lost already.

Those that can't handle realistic G cut outs or jumpy cockpit instruments, or anything else in this game because of the "Why can't I get 50 kills in a sortie" (Boofuckinghoo)syndrome, should stick to arcade mode.

Or better yet, bugger off and play Birds Of Prey on their XBox 360s.:-P

There seems to be a view from some that the swinging tacho needle pre patch may be unrealistic. I have driven quite a few cars from the 50s and 60s with mechanical rev counters. Simply reving the engine produces a smooth sweep of the needle. The internal workings however have more mass than electronic counters. When being driven the road bumps and engine vibration impart forces on this mass creating extraneous movement in the needle. I have never been in a Spitfire with mechanical guages but from my experience with cars I would think the wild swings seen pre patch are more likely in a plane experiencing the enormous stresses and strains in a combat situation than the smooth pedestrian offerings we have now. And being completely subjective - I love them.

Prove the jumpy needles are realistic. Don't forget the graphs and pie charts. Harder does not always = realism.

The jumpy needles pre patch were excessive, they did need toned down a lot. Having said that jumping needles is accurate in mechanical instruments.

Have a look at the MP guage at 5:45 in this Mustang video, it is jumping around quite a bit. Other instruments are steady but MP is jumping, so some needle shake is accurate. It needed toned donw, not eliminated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ8Vh...eature=channel

the needles jump in turbulence, misfiring and other accidents. In my opinion the misfiring is a problem (but I don't know the cause).

There is probably only one way to resolve differences regarding such minutia of realism is to try and find some of the last remaining pilots who actually flew the planes. Sit them down and show them both versions and ask them which one in thier recollection seems more accurate. Any one have a suitable grandad or great grandad?
No, I can't prove the jumping needles are accurate any more than anyone can prove they aren't. From my experience of mechanical speedometers and rev counters there is more likely to be erratic movement than none at all. Certainly such movement would be the result of external forces on the instrument rather than inaccuracies within it so movement would vary accordingly. How much is down to the developers.

They will be getting the sounds right then :P

I think every gauge has different delay or reaction time when the parameters is changing. Some gauges like engine RPM are easier to jump, but others are not, such as IAS and VVI gauges, i guess.

Change whatever you want, but always pointing into more realism, not following the whinning of someones that want to get what they see in movies.

18 pages whining about needles and a slight change in neg g, yet no one gives a crap that you can't get any of the planes anywhere near there service ceilings and indeed even to the operational heights that the battle was fought at, due to a fundamental bug, go figure.

yeah realism for teh win.

I wouldn't mind betting that if the engine spluttering thing gets fixed the bouncy needles will be magically fixed too....

There is no misfire, no black smoke and no delay until full power is restored anymore. I wouldn't call this "slight".

Of course you are right about the high altitude issue, but it is pretty sure that this will be fixed sooner or later. IMHO there is no need to worry about it.

Agreed with topic starter.

I think the altitude issue should be pretty much at the top of the "to be fixed" list..

+1

its a much much bigger bug IMHO....

Agree

And we need geforce damage for the Planes not just Blackout. Atleast an option to switch.

Somthing like: Gforce : none / Normal / realism

Agreed 100%.

After 4 hours of not believing this, and struggling to get the Spit to climb above 20000, I totally agree.
I blamed myself for being crap at CEM, but it appears not.
Sorry chaps, you were right!:)

Agreed that all realism issues need to be looked at.

Just because there are 18 pages of people posting "+1"s for this particular bug doesn't mean that they "[don't give] a crap" about other issues.

Oh my god, am I getting an erratic needle fixation? How sad is that. I quite agree with you Fruitbat 100% - reaching the correct operational heights is important and should be addressed. But that is something that will be corrected as it is historically verifiable - there is no argument.
This post was specifically about the fact that the erratic instrument needles were removed because some people simply did not like them whether they were an accurate depiction or not. This is quite an interesting discussion rather than whining as sadly there does not seem to be any cockpit film or any concrete accounts by contempory pilots that can shed light on which is more correct. Also, as has been said, planes from that era still flying probably have later, more accurate instruments to meet current regulations.
Unless such things can be switched in the game to suite personal taste then some people will always feel unhappy with the outcome.
I just happen to be in the 'keep the wobbly needles' camp because I think they look to be more realistic based on my experience of mechanical instruments.
But there is another reason to want them which was mentioned in another post and that is that they make the game come alive. They help to reinforce the impression that you are in a stressful combat situation in a high octane WWII fighter rather than a leisurely trip over the South Downs in a Cessna. Now I'll shut up and get on with my life and far more important things like getting shot down by you with the DDs. :D

There are no regulations on the instruments, here in the uk at least all warbirds are flying with authentic instrumentation, the americans often put modern stuff in their warbirds, the bouncy needles seem to be something that happens when the engine is coughing.....so fix the ceiling bug and I think the needles wil be fixed by default.

+1 Keep it real

+1

+ over 9000! Git mah dancin needles back pl0x!

I have no first-hand experience but there's something else that makes me think that the old instruments were in fact a bit "funky". If you look at the way A2A simulations modeled it for their FSX add-on Spitfires, the RPM needle is also bouncing around the actual value quite a bit.

I started the thread not just because of the needles and cut out,just a general concern about moving away from realism just because some people weren't happy with it,which is the impression I got from the beta post thread.
I agree there are many issues more important than bouncy needles,the incorrect low ceiling of the planes is a biggie,but thats not what the thread is about.

+1 Keep it real

Service ceiling issues have been directly brought up with Devs as a HIGH priority element to address.

eh, needles...there are other things which are unfortunately far from the "suspension of disbelief"...

Bump :)

Dear Luthier and talented developers at Maddox Studios,

I bought your game. I think it is an unpolished huge diamond. Something very special. One reason is your incredible attention to detail in bringing these old machines to life again. I had misconceptions. Expectations that were wrong. Your simulator teaches me things I would never have learned from reading books or watching videos. It corrects my misconceptions. When I learn about these changes; actual efforts; to move away from that to meet some people's ignorant expectations, I become saddened and feel as if this precious simulator is being desecrated and corrupted.


As a paying customer I ask that you carefully consider the following request:

1. Revert these changes to what closest represents reality.
2. Adopt a policy of changing people's expectations through education. For example, a FAQ in the game's readme, and in forums. This takes less effort, development time and is simpler. The laser-tracer issue you defended and altered people's expectations, and we have our straight realistic tracers.
3. If there is a hardcore market requirement for dumbed down gauges and engine behavior, include it as option in the game settings. A unique option for gauges would be ideal. If pressed for time, it can also logically be part of 'complex engine management'.

Thank you for considering my request.

+1

Bouncy needles, ridicoulus! There are still people having problems even running the game, focus on those issues instead, prioritize people, prioritize!

P.S Fix the god damned radio comms already.

+1 on this point Uther, it is very concerning that this thread turned into a "Gimme my realistic bouncing needles back" which is absolute and total nonsense because there is no historic evidence of "dancing needles", actually more of the opposite!


People are jumping on the bandwagon for the right war, but for the wrong fight!



PS. Thanks Blackdog_kt for posting it

~S~

It did NOT turn into a needles discussion. People that keep mentioning all the comments about the needles are making it a needles discussion. So please check your own wagon.

perhaps you would share this "actually more of the opposite" information with us?