Sorry for pasting my response from another thread, but this forum is becoming so monothematic, that I probably could paste it into another 5 threads and it would fit perfectly.

If we're back to the topic, IMHO Valve is easily the "lesser evil" of the two publishers. I do have the game preordered because I want the DVD though.

Bolds things to change context. Gripes about standard EUA verbage. You do realize basically every game you play says nearly exactly that Verbatim. I also suspect that your agreement to this forum says something similar about communications through it.

At the end of the day,those who want CoD enough will buy it,regardless of what obstacles etc are put in the way.Some won't and thats a tragedy for Oleg with lost sales.
Unless we are hit with a serious bombshell in the next 2 weeks (like pay to play) then I will get it.

I have no idea what steam is or Valve .. Actually i don't want to to know...

I refuse to go throught the three hundrent lines of the Steam - Valve Agreement -

and that is, before i issue a huge invoice (i charge a lot per Hour as a Producer & an Audio

Engineer) to someone for my time & effort ...

Who is going to pay for the fee of my lawyer checking out the possible sneaky claws

in your agreement ?

I agree to nothing!

I'm the customer - i will give my money only in exchange to be left alone - undisturbed - with frequently updated material (possibly paid one) - with the unlimited right to whine as much as i like about the product and without any software that will go scanning my drives and stuff ... (if this is the case - & this will have to be proven to me)

I understand that everytime you install something there are a thousent claws that you never read but you agree on and you click the agree button like a zombie ....

that doesn't make it less unreasonable ...

you click the agree button and on the other end a white collar freak is throwing a party ... on your expense ...

Too confusing ... keap it simple in a nice box and sent it to my place also!

Eh? :)

So you have your lawyer read every EULA for every game you play? That is well wasteful of your money.

[QUOTE=Avimimus;231549]Well, the big issues will appear if steam tries to mess with customised installs (patching etc.), has compatibility issues or hems in multiplayer modes.

Well, if a heavely modded Arma 2 runs smootly through steam I don't see why il2 shouldn't....

I also don' t see (talking in general) why some people are so concerned about steam, I find it very simple and "permissive". Once You've installed somehing you can play it just however you like. I reckon that in it's early days got some issues, but now it's a completely different thing.

The tragedy is that so many ppl here cant see past the end of there nose (guess they wouldn't be good pilots anyway) steam will being 200 more players in for every 1 person here that refuses to buy it...

+ 1 :( 100%

I agree, its a standard EULA. When you buy a game you don't own the game. You own the medium its presented on but you do not get exclusive rights to do with that software whatever you want.

Here a steam user, the only issue I had was with battlefield 2 when I tried to install mods but apart from that never really had more issues with steam. In fact I love it. it's easy to use and the fact IL2 COD will use steam I believe it's a great idea. No more having to find the right patch to install it and I can find servers without having to install any other app.

I can only see advantages. About the DRM as far as I know it's even less intrusive than Starforce, it doesn't install any kind of driver. I think piracy kills sales and at least on PC if they want to sale they have to do something to avoid piracy.

Steam is not here for DRM purposes though. CoD will ship with Solidshield DRM and Steam will be there to handle the multiplayer, so i don't see why it's mandatory for people who only want to fly offline.
Sure, it has an offline mode but it's still an extra 4-5 clicks of the button to bypass features i'm not interested in, so i can't see why they won't give me a big "disable steam integration" button to press once and be done with it.


I'm not being a pessimist for the sake of it. I'm just trying to find out what happens in certain scenarios where problems could be caused. I'm generally a pessimistic optimist by nature, hope for the best but be prepared for the worst ;)

I'm still buying the sim, but few people who know and have used steam actually answered my questions on how it works. I have used it in the past (i was working in a web cafe for three years) and i wasn't too impressed (9 out of 10 games that gave us trouble were usually running through Steam), so what i'm interested to know is how much better or worse it is than it was 4-5 years ago.

I'm genuinely hoping it will work out well, i just don't see any real evidence to support it being worth the extra layer of complexity on top of a game that already has it's own DRM and the capability to handle multiplayer on its own. The integration with Steam was a very recent development at the request of Ubi (this has been confirmed by the developers, either on an interview or in a previous update thread), it's not like CoD was incapable of handling multiplayer on its own until now.

It seems that most people are divided in two camps: half are in panic mode and cancelling their pre-orders and the other half is just making fun of them without providing any clear answers as to possible troubleshooting scenarios. That's why we keep going around in circles.

Personally, i have a set of very clear questions that would help make up my mind but only a couple of Steam's advocates bother answering, the rest are just telling me "it's going to be fine, it's the future, deal with it" and so on. Well sorry, but that doesn't cut the mustard, in fact it just serves to arouse suspicion as to why people won't answer.

What i would really like to know is why i can't have multiple installations of the game on the same PC and the ability to roll back a patch. I also don't know and would like to find out how a DF server would be run under Steam. Is it rented directly from them or can we rent our own and just list it there? If it is rented from them, how much control do we have over the contents? In an action/shooter all we need is a flag for the game type (capture the flag/team deathmatch and so on) and the map to be used. Well, in a flight sim we can have dozens of different scenarios on the same map. Can a server under Steam be used in the way an IL2 DF server is used or will we end up with set-piece lobbies while waiting for Steam's functionality to catch up?

It's things like that i'm concerned about, not any itch as to how Steam does it's business. I don't care at all about Steam per se, what i care about is this: will i be able to use CoD the way i used IL2? That's all that matters to me. So, anyone care to enlighten me and answer some of the questions?

1) Pretty sure you have that backwards which is what the link at the top of this thread is all about.

a) You can have multiple copies of the game on a single PC, and if it is for the purpose of having rollback versions then you have roll back versions. If you want the Steam to start in offline mode there is an option for that when you are setting it up. If you want to go into offline mode after Steam is already in Online mode there is an option to do that with the "Steam" option at the top. If Steam is in offline mode it will not update your game. If you don't want Steam to update right now your only options are a)stay in offline mode, b)check the do not auto update option under the games properties and forever stay logged in, c) always keep a rollback version on a disc. I know it's not perfect, but it is what it is atm.

b) Servers do not have to be rented through Valve (Steam)

c) Valve does not try to control the content on servers they love mods and modding in general.

d) I have no idea what DF is or what "set piece lobbies" are.

Now you're making me paranoid, Blackdog. lol

Yeah, I've noticed that you'll have to be logged in to Steam even if you play offline. That crap didn't work with RoF, they patched it to offline play, so I really hope 1C thinks really hard about the offline play if they want people to stick to this niche game. I've read "one time online activation only" many times and figured that once the game is activated, I shouldn't worry about having to relate to a "mother server" continously. The ball grip 777 has over RoF and its community is why I stopped playing it.

I can't stand YuPlay, Windows Live and all that crap myself so I just don't play games with loads of logins etc. just to get my fix. I was hoping for a somewhat similar approach as I have with IL-2. Once the game is downloaded I can just jump into the Steamapps folder and fetch as many copies as I want and place the game on my desktop. CoD:IL-2 has a "one time online activation" in addition to Steam and I'll be very disappointed if I need to "confirm" my game every time I play it.

This is why those of us championing Steam and this decision with such vigor have become kind of rude at this point. A lot of the information coming from naysayers is completely false and without any merit. We keep answering the same questions and debasing the same accusations, but they keep popping back up.

I also posted this in the goodbey thread. Very interesting. I didn't mind Steam when I played HalfLife 4 or 5 years ago. That was a game with a limited duration though. There were a couple of times I could not get into the game when the net was down. Il2 or CoD are games with a very long shelf life. If you only needed Steam for MP I don't have a problem. If you have to use steam everytime you play we have a problem. I sat out RoF for almost a year and a half because of this. I'll sit this one out on the sidelines untill there is a "no steam for offline" option. It's the principle folks. My game, my rules. I cannot always be connected when I'm on the road and even at home my connection has periods of shoddy performance. The idea of being bombarded with adds for other games everytime I want to play is putting me off aswell.

Cancelled my preorder with gogamer.com. I know, it's a bit impulsive but untill I hear that I don't need an internet connection to play offline I'm out. Another thing is I can get into Il2 in 30 seconds and play a QMB match. It always took me a few minutes just to get into steam if I could get in at all. Did not happen very often, mind you, but it was a turnoff when it did. Had to wait a few times for 20 or 30 minutes before it worked. Not going to deal with that headache again. RoF and DCS A10 are going to get my full attention untill this is resolved. This is a major bummer.

Where these people sleeping when all this constant internet on crap went on with RoF? Who knows how many sales they lost when this went on? I do hope they fix this for I want to support Oleg and play this game.

Mind you, this is not about Steam or no Steam for me. It's about having to be connected to the internet when I want to play offline.

Kikuchanoiunas por favor, you posted a reply to Blackdog just as I posted mine. You gotta be quicker man, I wasted several minutes on my post.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE ONLINE WITH STEAM TO PLAY SP! Read what we are saying. Quit jumping to conclusions and making stuff up.

Having to sign up to an online service for off line play is THE DUMBEST idea yet!

Makes Mickysoft an angle by comparison.

I think UBI is in big trouble to have to use another company to service its products.


Ironic that some of the most successful games offer a FREE base module, and you have to pay for upgrades.

Oh well,....


Edit:
This is not clear, but I assume it still needs subscribing to a service.

The way I'm reading it is that I have to be online to get the game started. After that's done I can get offline. Same problem. Congrats with your 100th post!

Untill I read it different I'm out. No need for shouting, I'm not telling you what to do right? I'm not making stuff up. If you read my other posts you can see that
I want this game badly. Just not badly enough if it requires me to be online to start an offline game session. I would love to stand corrected so I can buy the
game I wanted for 5 years. Conclussions are being made on what I read here on the forum. You're saying I'm coming to the wrong conclussion. Could you please
point me in the direction where you conclude that I don't have to be online for sigle player? Thanks.

It's all Kikuchiyo's fault. He made them do it.

Their are better ways to attract people then forcing them to subscribe to a service they might not otherwise use.

What are you reading that way? You have to log in once after you purchase the game and activate it. After that you don't have to be online to play it SP.

Hey, it could be worse. When I used to play Dawn of War 2 you had to login to Steam AND Windows Live at the same time. Which is fine except that the Windows Live servers are dreadful, and you couldn't play the single-player campaign unless you could login, only skirmishes. Killed that game for me.

I based my opinion on JG52Uther saying you needed to be online for offline play. Maybe no the most solid source. I'll do a little more research. Mind is made up though. No offline single player, no go. My loss for now for I want this game, nodbody's win.

You only have to register your account, login whilst online once to activate your game, and then start Offline Mode for as long as you want. Forever, potentially.

Dawg don't hate the playah, hate the game yo.

You have to activate Windows online and sign a EULA. So no different from Steam in that regard.

You do not have to pay any kind of service fee for using Steam. It is free to use.

Thanks! ;)

That quote is not mine,its from an admin at the ubi CoD blog.And he /she said you need a steam account to play.That could mean anything.

18 Responses to IL2: Cliffs of Dovers DRM solution

1.
Helmut says:
7 March 2011 at 11:06

Will Steam be required for strictly offline use too?
Reply
*
admin says:
8 March 2011 at 09:01

Yes.


http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs...log/uk/?p=1162

Let's go to the source rather than some random dude on an unrelated forum.

Surely we can agree that Ubisoft can in no way speak in any official capacity about steam, and their admins clearly don't know what they are talking about.

What that post meant is that you will need a Steam account to activate your game to play offline, oddball, not that you will be required to be online all the time.

Pointing @JG52Uter, It was him! He did it! Bloody infidell! Burn him, stone him but whatever you do, don't quote him!
@Kikuchiyo, Ill follow that link and see what's said at the source.

from what I read Solidshield will do the activation and Steam will provide "services"

the above seems like a bit much just to play SP...with that being said i have a steam account (not used in a couple years) and will buuuuuuuy the game...box addition if i can .
I like many people like to keep there windows install lean and clean...mine is so striped down it looks like win98:( and i only have 2 things installed BC2 and IL2 (LIKE A 427 IN A PINTO :)) , I think the only thing that needs changing is there not be ANY steam association with offline play besides that I think it should work out.

The only thing I can say about this whole debate is that seriously, everything in life has its pros and cons, and some of you guys need to stop getting your knickers in a twist about the most insignificant cons. Just chill out. You can play in offline mode if you want, you can turn off auto-updating (and honestly doing those things eliminates all of my *personal* issues with Steam), and if you choose to actually use it as it is intended it is an excellent server browser and a very good way to keep track of squadmates and other people you enjoyed playing with online.

I don't see how activating the offline mode is a lot of hassle either, you just have to login once, make sure the game is working and then click Go Offline. They make it sound more difficult in the article by including every single insignificant step so as to make the instructions idiot-proof.
As for the activation thing, it's true that Solidshield is the actual form of DRM chosen, but due to the way Steam works you'll still have to login to install the game, the Solidshield part is kind of implied by the actual installation process.

You guys really don't get it do you? I don't want this steam crap on my machine, end of story.

That's fine mate, you've made your case. But hanging around doesn't seem to make much sense now does it? You've decided therefore your contributions to this forum seems quite limited and a bit conflicted.

Perhaps after launch and consumer reports start flowing in about what a great sim it is, the urge to fly the best WWII combat sim available will trump your desire to not have this "steam crap" on your machine.

Well - bye bye then!

http://rochj.blogg.se/images/2009/ir...e_66701161.jpg

Okay name one other way that...

1) Nets you more money for your product... its a fact that offering a game on steam nets the developers more money than using a retailer, who end up getting a large percentage (60-70) of the retail sales.

2) Already has an established user base (3million playing atm).

3) Virtually free advertising?

These are just a few from 1C's point of view

Benefits for a consumer...

1) No disc to scratch

2) Friends list

3) Cheap Deals (recently got King Arthur RTS for £4 with all dlc, refreshing game like a fantasy total war game :D now its listed for £30)

4) Can easily mod games, (I have yet to run into a problem).

5) Automatic updates (if you dont like this due to bad connection you can turn it off)

I know im a fan and i don't care what you say there are clear benefits... steam is the second program installed on my pc after chrome

Well, it's good for you but not for everyone, nothing hard to understand about this.
Wonderwoman view is also good for some people, but you don't see the game shipping with it enabled by default for everyone :cool:
For instance, i have absolutely no use for features 2,3 and 5 on your list of consumer benefits.

I don't mind having access to them but i will definitely not use them much, i certainly don't NEED them and neither does the sim: it already has another DRM layer and will be able to use 3rd party server browsing tools (according to the developers, they said so a few updates back). Well, anything that's not needed is optional, so where's the option?


It's not here for DRM reasons because it already has Solidshield.

It's not here for the multiplayer functionality because Cod can already do that in a way similar to IL2 (the developers' words, not mine).

It's supposed to be here for mass market appeal and ease of advertising (the only substantial reason in the long term) but guess what, the game isn't even sold on Steam. :confused:

So, what is it really needed for? And just to clarify, "need" does not mean "i like to have a certain feature", it means "the game absolutely won't work without a certain feature". In this way, what most of us think we need are mere personal preferences. The game doesn't need to default to one set of them, it needs to have options for as much of them as possible to ensure the most satisfied customers.


Honestly, i have nothing against Steam i just want to have a choice of not using it, just as i want you guys who like it to have the choice of using it.

The current situation is bad for everyone. People who don't care for Steam are being forced to use it, the ones who like Steam are being forced to use a secondary DRM layer on top of that. God forbid something breaks in between and you start getting ping-ponged between Solidshield, Steam and Ubi forums.

It seems the only reason for Steam integration is to get mass market appeal and that's fine if the hordes of action game players are willing to finance our following expansions by picking up CoD and flying around for a few weeks in low realism settings, no problem whatsoever. However, the game is not even sold on Steam so again, it's an action without a clear motive.

Best thing to do? Have a Steam version for those who like it sold directly on Steam with no additional DRM.

The boxed editions would have Solidshield DRM and no Steam at all (ideally, they could ask the user which one to use upon install, Steam or Solidshield, but i doubt many Steam users are into boxed copies) as would a non-steam digital download version that would be distributed through the other online retailers. Everybody would be happy with this.

Compare with what we are actually getting: everyone who likes Steam will be forced to have another layer of DRM on top of Steam, everyone who doesn't want Steam will also have two layers of DRM and no choice whatsoever in the matter.

It's like they took two groups of people with diverging tastes and asked them what they'd like, only in order to implement something that will partially piss off everyone in equal measure :-P

I'm still getting a collector's edition but if the multiple layers of external applications cause me problems for any considerable length of time, it's going straight on second hand sale along with the Steam account it's activated on, regardless of EULA terms. So far the only real benefit of a Steam account for me is that i have no other games registered on it, so if i need to resell the game i can do so just fine. Maybe i should order 3-4 extra collector's editions and put them up on ebay once they become really hard to find :-P

The main thing I have picked up from these threads is that steam users seem to be childish arrogant smug and generally a pain in the butt to try and discuss things with.

Which doesn't make playing online in a community full of steam users overly enticing :P

the resell aspect is something i thought about today...if i buy a box set i can give/sell it to someone...but on Steam i cannot :( unless i make a separate account for every game...which would be a real PITA.

I will use steam for Cod if i have to but will not use steam for any other games.
If i buy a book I should be able to sell it or give it away when i am done...while i do not own the intellectual rights to the book i do own the copy.
With steam those options are removed :( while this may seem tobe a minor irritant it was that same option (someone gave me there copy of RB3D) that got me into flight sims and consequently got me into online gaming and MOH,COD2,BF2,RO,BC2 and ALL the il2 series.

I love the thread tags! I'm waiting for the steam version before I order - much prefer the DL versions over boxed. Most people don't understand that even if you buy a physical copy of a piece of software you are usually just buying rights to run it, not buying the software itself.

Anyway, that's my understanding and even if I'm wrong there are far more important things for me to worry about!

See how that works. The benefits have been shown over and over but some literally can't seem to "think outside the [game]box". I don't understand people afraid of using Steam for risk of somehow losing access to one copy of the game, then claiming to be cancelling pre-orders for a dozen boxes of it. I would bet money Steam will outlast Ubisoft. The developers have decided to use it, either embrace it or punish yourself by missing out on the game you've all been foaming at the mouth for. Not a hard decision.

Funny part is that most of the haters will actually like steam once they understand it.

Funniest part will be all the people who buy the game then can't run it because it isn't Il2 1946 and blame their PC's shortcomings on Steam.

..and many of them will be infected with viruses, root kits etc and/or be running system hogging virus scanners.
My windows install is not normally online. I use Linux. Windows is only for gaming.
I don't mind a one off online activation. Less keen about having to be online to get updates (normally I would download in linux)
With regard to Solidshield I'm less than thrilled to read this:
quote:"NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent
copying that may conflict with some DVD-RW and virtual drives."

uh-oh

and if this is the case how can this:
"Once the activation process has been completed, the activation solution does not install any software on your computer" be true?

So why are you for forcing people to use it? Would you be for being forced to use AOL? All anyone posting so far is concerned about is the lack of getting a choice in the matter, when clearly steam isn't needed to perform multiplayer functionality yet the rumblings are saying it will be required to do so. (And begs to question how dedicated servers will work in that situation).

The funny part, as you put it...is that some of us have had this off and on and off again relationship with steam/valve for over 12 years. There isn't anything to understand, so your point is moot.

Limiting choices and creating control bases in favor of companies like valve are not good for the gaming community as a whole. It is not good for any business market.

if using steam means Oleg and team have more cash for future development then so be it. To all the i'm not buying CoD because...as someone has said before bye bye.... you whinny little kids.

Steam is probably the most important thing keeping the PC gaming industry alive today. It boggles my mind every time a "niche" game comes to mainstream how many PC gamers in this day and age are not using it, and for that matter do not understand how it works.

Fortunately I know that the RRAARRRGH STEAM IS A VIRUS people are simply a small but vocal minority. Even if they really do huddle under tinfoil helmets and boycott the game (most of them end up buying it anyway despite the whining,) the (already mentioned in this thread several times) much higher share of the money going to the devs far outweighs this.

Because the game needs a damn server browser on launch! It's all very well saying that Steam isn't NEEDED to use multiplayer functionality but that relies on third-party software being developed or updated to do so. Would you prefer third-party software to be shipped on the disc? Can you imagine how the less computer-savvy would react to a game with no default server browser? They just wouldn't play multiplayer, or they'd be up in arms about the game being missing something so fundamental. Steam fills that gap for a developer with much less effort, and that's without considering all the other benefits it adds for multiplayer.

If you were making a game and you had no experience of programming server browser software, and someone offered you a deal to use a service whereby you could a) offer your consumers a professional quality server browser with all the features expected nowadays such as friends lists etc., b) get upwards of 60% of the value of sales through the service c) offer automatic updates to your consumers, would you say "OH NO i LOVE spending all my time on unnecessarily duplicating features such as this instead of improving my game", or would you say..."sounds like a pretty sweet deal for everyone"?

Do you anti-Steam people read at all? There have been so many positive reasons listed in these Steam threads, just go read..... As for the 100% definitive reason, you'll have to wait for Oleg to say why they wanted to use it.

To clarify, I couldn't care less if you use it or not. Just pointing out that most of the complaining about it done here is baseless. You have to wait for official reason why they decided to force it's use.

Thank you VERY MUCH for using Steam, this makes my life much easier in many ways.

One: I don't have to wait until the game gets released in my country.

Two: I pay a much better price on Steam than buying boxes in my country.

Three: Steam is a fantastic platform.

But the game is not for sale on Steam apparently...

Oh bugger...

It probably will be available on Steam, it will be some time after release though once Ubi can cash in on it's initial investment.

On the whole server browser thingy, we've no idea yet if Oleg is utilizing his own or not, Ubi message is way too blurry.
The game will have an in-game server browser that's pretty much a given, if it will utilize steam technology we'll see.

Steam works just fine, its a great platform imo.

That's against EU consumer laws so it doesn't apply to me. I don't buy the rights to distribute or modify the software in a large scale but i do buy that single copy of it and not just a license.

If i'm just buying the license to use it and i somehow lose my discs, i should then be able to request and they should send me new discs since i still have the license, right? And Ubi would send me new discs out of the kindness of their hearts? Think about it for a second, there's a reason most EULAs won't fly in any consumer law court, especially since the "contract" is presented to you after you buy the product, open the box (which makes it non-refundable) and start the installer. If it was printed on the back of the game box it would probably carry more weight, but i guess if people could see what they often sign up for they would also buy less games ;)


I wouldn't go that far, but some of them are in fact pushing it to the point of reminding me the "RoF can do no wrong" crowd of 2 years ago.
Incidentally, that was one of the main reasons i didn't pick that one up...limited amount of fans and servers when it was launched meant a high probability of crossing paths with a handful of very annoying people they had in that community :-P


Exactly. Those of you who want to go with Steam, by all means do so. Just don't force your opinion on the rest.

I mean, we're not all bashing Steam and it would be a good thing for advertising and mass market appeal for CoD, i'll give you that. So is scalable difficulty but the game doesn't default to any common denominator, it gives all of you options to do what you want with your gameplay sessions. Why should installation be any different?

My point is i don't hate Steam, but what the hell is all this zealotry about? All this "take it or leave it" attitude is sure not making steam any friends, neither does the "deal with it" commentary expressed by a few posters.

Sure, one might tolerate it to play a game he's been expecting for years but doesn't have to like it and if one is forced to use it, then you're going to keep hearing about it until he's given an option to disable it. How about you deal with that? :-P

The opinions on both sides are just as extreme, though, yours not least. ;) I don't even have Steam installed on my machine at the moment, and haven't done for the last couple of years probably, but it's just baffling to many of us who have encountered it that anyone could boycott the only game that's really likely to keep the WWII sim market alive because of the same sort of logic that would have them shivering in the cold because they were frightened of paying a power company who could potentially monitor their usage. I don't MIND whether the game uses Steam or not, it's just this sort of discussion that will cause a fuss just for the sake of causing a fuss and potentially blight the game's launch with negative rumours for no reason at all. If you don't want to buy the game because it uses Steam, at least don't go around posting disinformation and vague negative rumours about the service it provides (this last is not aimed at you Blackdog).

That is exactly it. Most of the opposition I've seen has been based on "facts" that just aren't true. I assume Oleg has some reason for doing this and instead of posting random make believe reasons Steam is bad, I'll wait to see what his reason is. Only after hearing from him can it be truly decided if this is a good decision or not.

If the game case isn't recyclable I ain't buying it.

:lol:

I like Steam, but I won't buy CoD if it's only on Steam.

I've been a long time fan of the IL-2 series and consider CoD to be one of the really great new games of the year.

The thing is I have enough Steam games already, and I like choices, being forced to use Steam to play, no thanks.

Sure, Steam works great most of the time and for most people, so why don't I want all my games on steam?
Well, I just don't want to put all my eggs in one basket so to speak.
What happens if Steam were to stop working?
What if Valve went belly up?
What if they're bought by someone that changes Steam completely?
Furthermore, I like having the disc, it just feels more secure and when you have the game like that you're not depending on some third party to use the game.

The main issue for me personally though is that it's not a choice to buy the Steam version when it perfectly well could have been.

Good luck to Oleg and team.

This perspective is one I agree with. I want to be playing this game in 10 years' time, and I don't ideally want to have to rely on Valve's goodwill to do that. Thankfully though pirates have managed to separate games from Steam before so I can't imagine it would cost Maddox Games a whole heap of effort to do so in a later patch if Steam were to go tits up.

/rant

I think I'm not going to buy the game at all! I mean what if the world seizes to exist on that particular day!

I have a feeling that steam as the major digital distribution platform that actually to some degree saved PC gaming is not going down in a single night just for the sake of it. It's bad buisness to everybody!

Besides it's not as if the game developers could not patch a steam release to actually run without steam if something magical like a unicorn running over Gabe Newell killing him and leaving all his shares to his 5 yr old son who then got tricked out of them by evil nazi-zombies from space whose plan on world domination included on runing down all digitally bought/licensed gaming software from steam for god knows what reason.

And third party this third party that. You're allready depending on a bunch o third parties to get your damn pc even runing that precious copy of windows that eventually with the right hardware and drivers lets you play IL-2:CoD. Not even taking into account your electric and internet providers.

The only real valid point with the steam haters is that it's an aditional process running you might not want there. Well I have a feeling your computer is runing a dozen processes that youre not using or ever will. Just imagine it as one among those that actually is usefull for something!

/rant off

I realy shouldn't visit to this topic :rolleyes:

Well exactly. If pirates can do it in a couple of weeks, Oleg and team could do it in a couple of days...plus testing. Two weeks, be sure.

I see the poll is currently running 73% in favour (have it, like it/don't have it, will install for CoD).

I love Steam. Completely different kettle of fish to any CD protection nonsense I've had to deal with over the years.

If it's available as a Steam download in it's entirety I'll acquire that way (if I can't get hold of a collectors box in Canada).

Cheers, Spinner

As much as I dearly hope both companies are still around, even as the Earth is consumed by the sun during it's dying expansion into a red giant, the chances of Maddox Games/1C outlasting Valve are pretty much non-existent.

now now...dont count oleg out...in fact i understand he is working with neurologistds in sweden and Gigabyte to come up with a corticalsynapic interface so we no longer need monitors...talk about full switch:shock::shock:...of course if windows is still the OS i wont be using it...being frozen in place because of BSOD and having a friend find you after days of marinating in your own....well you get the picture :)

I've used Steam, it's ok but I simply don't want to use it.
I don't have to have a reason or give a reason. I simply want the game on a disc, play it on Hyperlobby, have a backup on my computer, use an IP address, add what Patches my squad wants to use
and in general use my paid for property as I see fit.
I have no reason to help Steam gather whatever, I don't care if Steam exists or not
gadnab it, I simply want to enjoy it and use it as I use 4.09+UP2.01+modded maps of my choice.
I have paid for and own every piece of IL2 that Oleg has produced and would have been happy to pay twice the price.
Hell our computers that we continually upgrade have cost $thousands,
Bugga Steam!
Cheers,
Ibis.

Nope you don't have to have a reason. I think the only objection the Steam "defenders" had was the misinformation that many were using to excuse themselves from it's use.
We all have to ask ourselves what principles we stand on, and what our limit of exception is, and I will fault no one for that, but when someone makes up "facts" to back their decision I take exception. So long Ibis I am sure you will be missed in CoD.

S!

Not at all like the anti-steam (anti-everything) bunch then? Personally I'm fed up with all negativism here and all this whinig about everything does not lead anywhere. They have chosen to use Steam for some parts and certainly will not change due to the fact that 20 people whine here and in some other forums. It just make them stop reading the constructive criticism that is stuck in between all the crap. Trust me as a development manager myself - after a certain level of negativism in open channels you stop reading and focus on other channels... It's very obvious that this is what has happened here, but people just don't get it. Why do you think Oleg and Ilya are not here any more?

...and the Steam haters are usually effin dinosaurs :-P- fess up, how old are you grandpa :)?

+1 the levelling of moaning here is beyond appailing, how dare ppl complain who else would even bother to make a highly detailed ww2 aircraft simulator when you can spit out games like cod and other fps year after year with no upgrades, minimal work and get paid 1000 times more than 1c will for il2 cod and that's after 6 years of development so everyone moaning here STFU and be glad your even getting a product like this and one that is not watered down for consoles

Options?
 

I see suporters of steam here, all of tham say "i have 10-80 games", it keeps pc gaming alive, and so on.
Well, i must say that il2, bf 1942 and bf2 were the games worth playing, and pc gaming has no quality since. They are on my home comp and on my qosmio laptop.
To see Cliffs of Dover close to publishing, brings warm feelings to my hearth.
I have large estate out of city, and ejoy summer, sometimes winter months there. And i dont have internet there. Why? Because lan gaming has some special feeling. To bring frends in live contact is above any steam or battlenet or any other anti social software.
So, steam? No way. Not at home, not on my estate.
I do fine without auto updates, i like my comps without startup software, comercials, virus like software that keeps haunting you with various offers.
Lets keep things cousy and warm.
Steam is for other type of games, not this sweetie we all have been waiting for. Or give us option at least.

Not gonna happen and it's the fault of hackers that these drm software are in use, it's the typical case of a few ruining it for everyone else.

I think all you need to do is activate the game once install steam then turn on play offline and you can have your LAN game. Inconvenient yes, a show stopper? not unless you are too stubborn to accept the inevitable.

But there IS no problem playing Steam games without internet... I played both Hearts of Iron II and Red Orchestra that I have bought through Steam with my internet cable pulled to test. No problem at all (RO is a bit useless without Internet but it works fine). A dialog just pops up asking if you want to go to offline mode and all games work just fine. Tried CoD Modern Warfare 2 as well and it worked great too - even though it is heavily Steam integrated...

How is Steam "virus like?" It is a piece of software you choose to put on your PC that runs or doesn't run at your whim.

What type of games is Steam for?

As I've said before I don't really care if someone doesn't want to use Steam, and I can understand and respect that decision, but making up false claims is unacceptable. There are things I don't like, and so I don't use them or things that associate themselves with them, but I will not create facts or make bold statements that are unbacked to justify my reasoning. It is perfectly fair for someone to not want Steam, but be honest about the service itself.

All Steam games where cracked on day of release. You can get illegal copies of every game that's out there, so the only thing drm successfully supresses is the market for used games.

This whole thread looks like this:

http://www.mediahunter.com.au/wp-con...half-full1.jpg

What do you see?

IMHO ubisoft and 1c should have done it like dcs a-10,you put in your serial for install and then you can play offline no probs,but when in multiplayer you have to log into your account which has your serial stored on their website,and that with people who pirated the game cannot access multiplayer.

LOL ... that is EXACTLY what Steam does.

@tintifaxl Yes but those cracked games only allow single player so intake it you don't want multiplayer

yea but with steam you need an online connection to go offline:rolleyes:

Only once, ever. :confused: Is that an insurmountable difficulty these days?

Actually if you start it up without an internet connection you can start it up in offline mode straight away ;)

No you don't. :cool:

A common problem when people don't know what steps are needed to play in offline mode:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...d.php?t=675439

You only ever need to connect ONCE to the Steam Network and do the following:

1. Enter in your CD key or what ever code that is required.
2. Have the game updated to it most current patch.
3. Ensure that your login details are saved on your PC via the Settings page.

From that point on you can physically unplug your net connection, open up Steam itself or run a Steam linked game from a desktop icon and you'll be presented with this:

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-...am-offline.jpg

You can now play in offline mode till your dying day.

Codex you are wasting your time, they won't listen!

Just sit back, relax and let the tin foil brigade gyrate themselves into a whirlpool of hysteria. I heard steam eats babies.

A glass of water. :P

half empty glass of concentrated hydrochloric acid.

Just because I´ve got a quite negative attitude today ... :cool:

Happy about steam
 

The only games I play on line that are not massive hosted ones are steam ones. And they have always worked great for me.

Actually I didn't like Steam too much, but I have come to the conclusion that it will have a very positive effect on sales amount and so players amount.
Better have plenty of full servers with Steam than the opposite.

Can't wait for the first 70+ player servers ...

I really cant fathom what everyones problem is with Steam?! You can still have dedicated servers etc, run mods, do anything you want! Its only platform to launch the game and help stop piracy (which is only a good thing). I think you all need to really sit back and think how this will affect your game play......it wont!

Since you're getting a tad aggressive here let me remind you that
a) steam brings nothing to the table that CoD won't be able to do on it's own, according to the man himself (mr Maddox), so it's more of an option rather than a necessity and
b) it was a publisher decision forced on them and not something they decided by themselves (again, their words not mine).

So, trying to make it seem as if the people who disagree with the decision to integrate Steam are somehow doing a disservice to team Maddox isn't exactly going to fly.

You guys really want to make me look for the exact quotes if i am to stop having to type the exact same reply every few posts , don't you? :rolleyes: :-P


You apparently missed that one. There is already a different DRM implementation for the game called Solidshield, so Steam is not there for copy protection reasons either. That means that even if you like Steam you too will lack the choice to use only Steam, you'll have to use the Solidshield DRM on top of it.

Apparently Solidshield is supposed to be very effective as well, more so than Steam, for the games of which a quick google search will reveal thousands of illegal torrents with an upload date similar to the game's release date.

It's not exactly the safest protection method and i know this from personal experience dating back to 2004 or so, maybe even earlier, and extending to the present day: while working at a webcafe we had valid licenses for all the games but whenever Steam was behaving strange and customers couldn't play, we changed the shortcut links to versions with "workarounds" that made the game playable until Steam service was restored.

Actually, if we can disable Steam but the DRM can't be bypassed it will be a win-win situation for everyone: Solidshield DRM is still in place so the pirates can't distribute illegal copies, the people who like Steam can use it and those who don't can disable it.

I wouldn't be surprised if such a stalemate is reached after a few months.


On a more humorous note...

...sorry, but i can't resist answering this one.

It's a glass of water.

It's enough for some people, too much for some and not enough for others.

Maybe it would be a good idea to let them go to the tap and fill it up a little more or allow them to not drink all of it, or even empty some of it into the sink so that, you know, they can actually decide for themselves about the amount of water they want to drink. What do you think about it? Isn't it a neat idea, or should we let half of them parch and waterboard the rest to show them who runs things around here? Yeah, that'll show them progress, i'm going to be the arbiter of their hydration ration for the rest of their lives! :-P

Absolutely awesome news.

Steam is full of win.

You have just earned yourself a pre-order from me for utilising steamworks.

Steam is the best thing to happen to pc gaming, ever.

Thank you Ubi.

Uhm... You are arguing what exactly?
"That since some/most/all other game has the same draconian, customer
hostile, self-preserving, greed-corrupted EULA... we should quit complaining
that Steam has it?"

Please! Do allow me to chuckle at that concept a minute... *snicker*

...

Furthermore, I have always bought games and given them away to friends
when I've grown tired of them... So, your ad-hoc assertion that "basically
every game has an EULA which prevents you from giving your game away"
is in dire need of more than a few quotes & examples to support it.

Imo, hyperlobby is horrible.
It behaves worse than steam in many respects, like...
- Forcing you to update or you woun't even get connected.
- Stealing Focus at every turn it can.
- Updates forcing itself into "C:\Program files" even-though HL isn't installed there.
- etc, etc...

So, any alternative to HL would be welcome in my book.

LOL...!

Talk about a school-book example of someone getting paid to influence forums.

I'm guessing hired and paid by UBI-soft...
Because no normal gamer would even think of putting the words "Thank you"
and "UBI-soft" in the same room, except during sarcastic hour on Fridays.

There's always someone who has to go...

- If you don't take the blue pill, then you will probably have reservations.
-- If you have reservations, then you will probably have suggestions
--- If you are suggesting something, then you are technically complaining.
---- If you are complaining, then you are whining.
----- If you are whining, then you don't have a point.
------ If you don't have a point, then you should get lost.


Though, I did enjoy your attempt to equate being "anti-steam" with being "anti-everything".



Oh, noez...
I stand in the doorway, waving my white handkerchief, with tears running down my...
...oh wait.

Now the fact you can't use a PC is HL's fault?

Buy a Mac.

The fact that you chose to mis-quote me in order to flame, shows that you
are nothing but a troll. //ktnxbye

Steams multiplayer support destroys Hyperlobby in EVERY way possible.