I don't understand why you guys start a debate. I just told a fact that everyone knows. But if you want me to buy shooters instead of your product, it's ok for me. I will buy the complete SoW series even so.

Can't see the vids here at work but the screenshots hold a lot of promise!!
And thanks for responding to the community's request for vid and sound. Much appreciated.

Good luck on the presentation, Oleg!

In fact I'm really primitive prick myself(didn't keep me from successfully qualifying for mensa tho').
Now go and annoy someone else.

Congratulations. I Hope you use the chance. Otherwise it's just... nothing.

Did you just call Oleg an idiot?

(You should take the mensa test - and afterwards tell me with straight face you want to spend time with those nerds)

Clean your glasses, pls.


P.S. I'm proud of you, be sure

CLAAAAAAASIC! :grin::grin::grin:

30 sec... passing fast :)

LOL - you should listen to your own advices!

You are comparing a WIP-game to one that was in development and refinement for 10 years, now. And still SoW looks a LOT better in almost any aspect than IL2.

And a personal opinion does not become a fact, just because you insist everybody shares your opinion.

It might be better not to read too much between the lines, it's just too much interpretation. I didn't give any advices.

SoW dose look 9 years better than IL2. Just look at the moving shadows in the cockpits, the dancing instrument needles, houses with lights on etc. etc.etc. Rather than trying to pick holes in the grass in pic 3 because it seems to disappear when it may be the runway why not look at the grass under the wing shadow and notice that the tall grass at the front is still sunlit whilst the grass at the rear edge is shadowed whilst the ground is bright. How cool is that and how 9 years better it is. I hope Oleg has a sense of humour and his team can have a good laugh at some of the comments made because he seems to take a real interest in what people say.

Not sure on the Luftwaffe, but the RAF used tracer rounds; not tracers inside bullets. These were not bullets, and they could not inflict any realy damage. The tracers themselves only gave a rough idea of where the bullets fell.
Sorry if I'm not making myself clear...


For example:

Bomber Command Ammuition 0.303-in.
Between January 1942 and May 1944 the operational sequence for belting
0.303-in. ammunition was as follows:

7 A.P., 2 incend., 1 tracer (day or night)

On the 26th May 1944, provision was made to alter the current sequence, should the necessity arise, to enable a quick turn-round of aircraft for day/night operations, to be effectec:

Rear Top left: all 70% A.P., 30% Incend., no Tracer
Top right: 1st 500 rounds like above
Reminder 50% A.P., 20% Incend., 30% Tracer (Night)

Bottom left: All 60% A.P., 20% Incend., 20% Tracer (Night)
Bottom right: All like above

Mid-Upper and front: Both 1st 300 rounds, 60% A.P., 20% Incend.,
20% Tracer (Night)
Reminder 60% A.P., 20% Incend. 20% Tracer (Day).

Is the link missing?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...417/map1-1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...7/Img_2280.jpg


I like it!

Yes, it looks all promising.

Jocko,
Sweet comparison pictures. Thanks for posting it!

No, do a google search for it, if you wish.
The RAF used tracer rounds, but these weren't meant to inflict damage and were not like bullets. They were belted in the same way, though.

Luverrrrly, bloomin marvelous to see it running so smooth :)

Just one question: What's the odd thing above the trees on the right of the first pic?

Very nice mate :D It's great to see that SoW has basically the same road-layouts. This will be great for navigation.

Hi Oleg.

Thanks for the update. SOW is really looking like it will be something really special and it will be a simulator that people will remember for a very long time to come. I cant wait!!!!

Some questions.

Will mission builders be able to place static aircraft with varying degrees of damage. It would be great to have a Hurricane like the one shown with the gear damaged just placed onto an airfield as a static item. Think of the immersion!

Will we be able to set each aircraft in a flight / section with different amounts of fuel / ammo / bombs ?

One last one.
Can you explain a little bit about how mission "triggers" might work, i remember you saying that the mission builder woudl have this ability.

Thanks again old bean!
Bunster

An umbrella.

You know, it's funny, I've been watching all the development shots with interest but when I saw the map it just floored me. The map in the Il-2 series always seemed a little cartoon-ish, but this one is quite realistic.

You can't see the detail in the real map due to the crappy camera but it has the Thames has the same water texture drawn on it that the game map does.

It's these little details that are going to make this sim something to treasure.

Color tracer markings are just markings. The tracer is inside the bullet anyway and this bullet may do a damage... At least for 1940. Or you say that the "self flying body-traccer" with small weigt has the same trajectory like a bullet without burning tracer inside? Just think about. Or I didn't understand....

The tracer bullet is analogy of the rocket engine, with a tiny small if any thrust.

The engine sound is pretty good I think, I also liked the sound of wind. It has a very good WW2 feeling. Thank you Oleg for this great artwork. :)

You say il2 is 9 years old, but I'm sure you are comparing the WIP SOW BOB to il2 1946 4.09m on perfect mode with modded maps, and that's not 9 years old. ;)

Just to get back to the topic, you say those special tracer rounds did carry a smoke trail compared to modern tracers due to their different design?

I did a quick check, but couldn't find anything about those projectiles.

From the ballistic point of view, the tracers have to be as close as possible to the other rounds - that means same aerodynamics, same mass. Otherwise their flightpath is too different which would make them useless.
Mass is a problem as they burn much it during flight(lose energy), so, the longer the distance fly, they less mass they have, the bigger the difference where the tracers hit compared to other kinds of ammo.

I would think they are made of lead and copper/brass/steel too.

And you're right, they inflict less damage than conventional rounds as they have less energy, the further the target, the worse the energy loss.

If you look at gunnery film from the period you will see what smoke he means.
I am not sure if it is an artifact of slow motion..but they do seem to smoke.
But your correct, I have fired 1000s of rounds(7.62) from the same browning used in the Hurricane, and the tracers leave no smoke that you could see in operation.

Oleg, fantastic, thanks.

The RAF did use tracer rounds but they were bullets.

Left to Right:

Tracer, Armour piercing and incendiary.

http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...one/img083.jpg

all of these are .303 rounds used by the RAF

That's what i though as well.

SoW does look 9 years better than IL2, the original IL2.
IL2:1946 is not 9 years older than SoW and carries a load of improvements.

I'm sure that after the 4th-5h SoW add-on and as improvements are implemented, it will look 9 years better than IL2:1946 ;)

What i'm trying to say is, i doubt the engine is running full tilt because there's no PC that can do it yet, just like it was with IL2. So, comparing 1946 to WiP SoW is comparing an engine that runs at the top of its capabilities with an engine that runs in testing mode...hardly an accurate way to measure things.

Wing detail
 

Just curious...in the vid (thanks again:-P) the detail is photo-realistic but when the view turns to the right showing the wing, the detail is not so great. Just wondering why?

No, I meant that the tracer wasn't inside a bullet that was meant to inflict damage...

I am not sure if I am misunderstanding you. A tracer bullet is a normal bullet, with a cavity in the base that has a small incidery that burns a certain colour.
In characteristics they will try to match the ball and api rounds that are belted with it.
But it certainly hurts, it certainly damages much like any other round in the belt would.

Wise words
Agree...

...


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/MapSoW.jpg


Heston Aerodrome was the base of No. 1 Photographic Reconnaissance Unit.

Repairs and refurbishment of Airspeed Oxfords and de Havilland Tiger Moths were carried out at Feltham or London Air Park but also major assemblies for Supermarine Spitfire, Armstrong Whitworth Whitley, Armstrong Whitworth Albemarle.

The Brooklands site was used for military aircraft production, in particular the Vickers Wellington, Vickers Warwick and Hawker Hurricane



ORDNANCE SURVEY of GREAT BRITAIN
Aeronautical Map 1:500,000 RAF (WAR)
Scan of the S.W.ENGLAND SHEET 7 (left part) and STRAIT of DOVER SHEET 8 (right)

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/MapSoW1.jpg

The King George VI reservoir was open in 1947. ; )

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/KingGVI.jpg


...

It's due to Oleg's not-up-to-date PC I think/hope.
Let's hope nvidia donates one of their high-end cards, so Oleg can show us the potential of his baby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxaYd...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Fx3...layer_embedded

Well i haven't had il2 loaded since the beginning of the year and i have to say how cartoony il2 looks now compared to the WIP on SOW.
I think SOW is looking a being a bit special.:)

OK, thanks Oleg. Even more exciting!! Air raid siren sounds ... house lights go off, search lights go on?! :)

Have a great weekend.

PPanPan

Hallo NSU, yep, still German ;)

Herzliche Grüße

Dietger



PS. I didnt made the JU88, that was Jan Nuikkanens job; I only made the textures for the Kanzel;

Oleg,

what is meant with binaural sound?

...and therefore carried a smoke trail behind(?).

Maybe we're done here anyway. ;)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaurale_Tonaufnahme

Funny question for such a smart-ass.

Funny how 9 years ago IL2 represented reality very nicely. We all oohed and aaaaaaaaaaahed. I was excitedly anxious (even panicky) to get my FW 190 off the ground before the Sturmoviks came to attack my air field in my very first mission. I remember thinking how grande it was to sit in my Hellcat on the flight deck watching my AI team unfold their wings as I started up my engine..... and then; "Oh CRAP. I forgot to link the chocks to a button." LOL (but I digress)

Ahhhhhh, the grandeur of technology. Now, we move forward with a more impressive representation of reality. What wonders of escapist realism will Oleg and crew have for us?




Thanks Oleg. Have a great show. I expect booth babes pictures next week. ;)

No update next week.

Its a seccret :)

Tracers: Part o the problem with tracers was that their ballistics were not the same as the AP or incendiary rounds. In other words (and simplified) they did not hit where the other rounds hit.

As a shooter, I can tell you that even the smallest differences in rounds can have GREAT effect on point of impact. Even different brands (manufacturers) with the exact same specifications can have different points of impact.

At close range, these effects are minimal. At longer ranges, they become huge. Obviously tracers do not do the same damage as AP rounds. So, some units took the tracers out all together and to very good result reportedly.

As for the smoke, I have never personally seen a tracer that left a smoke trail. However, smoke trails are clearly visible in some WWII footage. Maybe the composition has changed (like the change to smokeless powder in the charge for the round).

At 1000 yards, a .50 cal bullet drops around 30 feet and it IS possible to see the flight path of the bullet without it being a tracer. Whether or not this would be possible to see from an aircraft I don't know (but I would love to find out in person lol).

Oleg, thank you for the update. The night shot is amazing. The video makes me want to get my hands on it so much my palms itch. I LOVED the AI Hurricane's attack run!

Splitter

Well Hecke, if you compare initial IL2 release in 2001 with what we have now at "WIP" stage, it does look 9 years ahead...We are a a bit biased by the fact that IL2 has been tremendously updated since its 2001 release....;)

Salute !

D'oh. Thanks for the reminder. I read that but forgot.

OLEG MADDOX good very good good work i loock the video and the photo.
But i not like the gun effect and sound.
i loock original video of ww2 and sound of gun is POMM- -POMM- -POM very explosive sound of gun and tracers have a zig-zag effect and not a laser effect.
you loock the real gun camera the Tracher have a smoke little smoke and the tracher not have good linear and perfect direction but have little movement the bullets not is the laser.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk1Jb...eature=related
sound of gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shsxu...eature=related
gun sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50CErVz4quc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Fx3...layer_embedded

Darn, I tried my best!! ;)

PPanPan

@ Oleg.

Will there be different intensities of light in the windows at night or do you have to make a compromise due to fps?

Thank you very much for the updates Oleg. The game looks just stuning.:grin:

I particulary love the fluidity of the video. With the fact that the video was shot on easy setings without much vibration the stream of tracers looks outstanding in a video.:-P Love it. I also totally love the night shot.:o
The painted reflections on the gauges look great, and with the shadow of the frames moving around you don't really notice the shadow is not dynamic.:grin:

Thanks for the update and good luck with the exhibition.:)

Please disregard Hecke's comments. He's a fifteen year old spoiled kid without any maners.
Some parents this days.:rolleyes:


I still don't understand why mods don't ban him. He's at it every friday. :evil:

Oleg, is it possible to bomb the area that Eastenders is located in? If so we can stop that terrible blight on TV from ever happening. :)

Great update as usual, Thanks.

Man... Am I looking forward to 23rd February 2011 when BOB is released..

That's what I meant with my previous post :)

Unfortunately you didn't have parents that were interested in your education.
I am not Heke, I am not 15 and I am not spoiled.

LOL... :grin: and Coronation Street, too, while you're at it! :rolleyes:

Would make for some fun "special mission" briefings :)

good update Oleg and crew.

Nice to see stuff in motion again...and sound, nice!

Guys I would take those sounds from the video with a grain of salt. Youtube's audio quality isn't the greatest. I'll wait until I fire up the release version of the sim on my pc with my headphones before I judge.

That's what I'm thinking too for the night screen shot....

Your a bomber approaching the city..you see some lights in the distance, as you get close the lights go out, flood lights start shining, sirens go off, aaa batteries start firing up, ack starts flyin...oh man this is gonna be awesome!

I don't think you will be mentioned in my education programm at school so that doesn't make any sense.

[edit] You seem to be spoiled since you are not satisfied with the best there is. (SOW)

Sorry, I thought you were trying to say that the .303 bullets carried the tracer inside them. On some levels this is right, but none of the .303 bullets intended to inflict damage did :-P
The tracer-rounds, of course, would be in the shape/calibre of the round required to be fired.

Maybe it's just me, but does this Hurri look damaged? Has it lost part of its tail? Could it explain why it didn't fire at the bombers? A crippled AI who can't fire but still providing support for his wingman? Nah ...


PPanPan

I didn't talk to you, did I? So why do you interfere?

Yeah...I know...:confused: I was so "furious";) when I saw this comment, that I replied immediately without reading all the posts !
So sorry about that my friend ! :rolleyes:

Salute !

Xilon:

If I am understanding your post correctly, that little "wiggle" you see in the tracers is due to "camera shake", not any movement in the bullet itself.

Bullets CAN wobble but you would probably not see this at fairly close range on a tracer. It would only be noticeable at all at very long ranges and at those ranges, your eye would probably have a hard time picking it up.

So the "wiggle" is all in the camera, not in the bullet itself. As the plane shakes from subsequent rounds being fired, the tracers downrange appear to "jump around" when they are in fact following a rather stable parabola.

I hope that made sense. And if I misread your post please forgive me.

Splitter

Great Update, I'm really looking forward to this game.

I followed the tracer round discussion with great interest and I don't know anything about guns and ammunition.

But I seem to have understood that tracer rounds where jiggling and after a short distance followed a complete other path than the conventional ammuntion due to the different ballistics.

This was at least what the guys from the B17-II simulator where doing some years ago, their tracers had smoke and where jiggling in the air. Never seen more convincing tracers in any sim since.

I don't want to sound like a basher, for me this is a small detail and the game looks very promising.

Great job Oleg and team.

Regarding tracers;

Guys, tracers do not appear as squiggly lines in real life. It only appears that way in GunCam videos due to the fact that the wing/camera/surfaces are shaking when the camera is recording, leading to the entire image shaking.

Specifically noticeable on the tracers.

EDIT: This has already been covered. My bad, just noticed :P

Perhaps it was not a an AI aircraft a all :grin:. Maybe that Hurricane that made the quick attack run was not AI. Maybe we are seeing networked muliplayer?

Nah.

Splitter

I guess you turned sixteen and sound like you were raised by an X-box.:rolleyes:

I'm totally addicted to friday update ... it's getting better to better...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4v1ESLm8m6...mer-712749.gif

congratulation for the works

Yes. It. IS!!

I'm getting pretty psyched!
Every update outdoes the previous one, and they all contain little hidden nuggets of detail that hint at the underlying complexity of the engine.

I'd like to see more pictures of the interface (mission builder (QMB and FMB), mission briefings, pilot profile/squadron profile, and career modalities, post-mission debrief info)... that sort of thing- we've only seen one picture so far but it didn't give much insight into what, if anything, has changed in creating immersion in that respect.

Well Hecke, this is a open Forum...Everybody reads everyone's intervention...
As a community, we feel that all subjects discussed here are allways part of a group dynamic. You will get responses from anyone who feels concerned by any of your comments...That is how it works...Now, if you can't behave like an adult, and I don't say your not, in witch case you would be in more trouble than what I initially taught, and unless this is your intention to poke around, we, the adult community, expect better behavior from our members. Kids AND adults...

Have a nice day

Ok, from now on I will do it like the rest here.
I will always say that the update is awesome.
Remember me when I'm mistakenly asking questions.
That seems to be the only real solution to be accepted by this fangroup.

Ha ha, right on. Great update, looks fabulous, love the city lights.

One of the oldest urban legends of the flight sim community, and B-17 II was heavily involved in creating it. Nevertheless, tracers do not behave like that. They do not jiggle around in random zig-zag patterns while still maintaining their rough trajectory. It's physically impossible, and it would make them completely useless.

As others have already pointed out, this is purely the camera shaking that causes tracers to look like that. Watch any footage where the camera is not mounted on the firing platform, and the tracers are straight lines. Just like shown in today's video :)

Ssssst :eek: no one may 'interfere' with his discussions......
It makes him feel bad or something..

He said that to me

Over all I really like the movie. Especially the comparison to IL-2 :)

One minor thing I noticed: There are mirrored clouds in the gauges but they don't move at all even if the plane moves. Is that something that will change during the final stages?
It looks kind of neat to see reflections and all but it'd be weird to see clouds in the gauges if you fly a loop and actually have ground behind/below you, not the horizon. In fact it'd be neat to be able to have a natural feeling by being able to pick up external factors like mirrored reflections.

Doesn't anyone ever get banned here for intentional spamming, trouble-making?

I don't think so, because moderation here is virtually non-existent. If it weren't, this place would actually be habitable.

Extremely constructive.

Thank you.

Hecke...You probably can ask wathever you feel is relevant to this game...
And this is the main goal of this forum...It is HOW you formulate your comments that can be harsh and aggressive/negative sometimes.
Put yourself in Oleg's shoes for a moment... He is proud to show us ( wich is a privilege, don't forget) his hard working WIP... He assumes (wrongly?) that we know him enough,after all those years, to understand that HE is the most picky forum member we could ever find ....Oleg asks for a little faith here...He needs our complicity until he shows us the final thing...
But at EVERY update, someone ,(not always you;)) comes up with nonsense comments and a wishlist that is absolutely irrelevant to what Oleg is telling/showing us....:(

We can ask anything here...Dreams are free...It is how and when we ask and critisize that matters to have a smooth ride...;)

Salute !

Now that could be something Oleg might reveal....

Servers with interactive 24 hrs maps and missions..... and on joining you can choose your mission of liking...from London to Berlin!

The houses are not all lit...but how about the street lanterns?

Mr. Maddox said that if a bump-map was used for the skin of the aircraft, you would see it from the cockpit. Maybe there was no bump-map yet or it's a detail setting.

We don't know if a high(est) resolution texture was used for this test.

BTW, the cockpit noise sounds good. The needles being alive is a very nice detail. In the first frame every dial and gauge is "at rest". Might this be a result from the complex system? No computation of engine & aircraft status, if there is no status to compare it with from a 'frame' before? :)

nice update, thanks oleg.
the guy in the hurri needs to work on his shooting :-P

if you promise to stop posting rubbish i'll buy you the game when it comes out.

It's not that bad. After a while you know who to ignore as white noise. Nearmiss cleans up the worst of the offenses. I haven't seen a certain forum member here for a number of weeks. I don't know if his absence was self imposed or not.

While somethings that people see baffle me, for what ever reason they are important to the person who asks. Ultimately the free discourse of ideas adds to the conversation, and I (at least) usually learn a bit of something.

Geezus can some of you guys not behave yourselves for even one thread?

Stop bickering like spoiled children and GROW UP.

Thank you Oleg, fantastic work.

Love the video Oleg! Many thanks for posting it, and especially for the binaural sound. As every audiophile will say - the 5.1 is a gimmic, and all you need for the best audio are high quality headphones. :cool:

1. The tracers you show - Z-looking - due to low frame rate of camera and its quality of the image. It was discussed several times in the past that who is copying such Z-like looking traces from the WWII footage doing simply wrong because don't even know school physics (or at least some principles of film 16 to 24 FPS gun camera speed. This measn the shutter speed is too great that to fix without blur or movement between the frames - the result is Z-like looking tracers.

2. The footage sample is post production sound addition. It was not recorded in fligh or so.
There is even srtereo sound that wasn't recorded... and guncamera also have not the mic :) Even mono.

3. The sound of guns inside the cocpit and outside is way different. even different in flight and staying o the ground. As well as the engine sound. We model all of these cases.

try to read about binaural sound.. Just few in the world use it. We are using it alredy many years. We have patented methods, etc...

For sure we use most of the real recording sounds. On the ground, in fligth, in cockpit.
And is not from the simple camcoder (apriory wrong), but the the simulation of the human head. Seach in internet to understand these principles. This is the most right way to make realistic sound, but not the great "nose"...

It wasn't me. It was novice AI. I can seat in any aircraft that has cockpit (there is now such feature).

In the UK blackout was patrolled on foot and enforced all night long. You shouldn't expect to see any lights out of doors at night.

Ok folks...

Tracers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vQHuv7bXu8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vzng...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOlRK...eature=related

Laser:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Ojb...eature=related

The reason some people think the tracers in games look like lasers is because "lasers" in StarWars and other sci-fi were meant to look like tracers from World War II (all StarWars space combat is essentially World War II air combat :)).

Oleg I have one question: I've noticed that the British .303 tracers we've seen so far in video and elsewhere are white. Was this really the case? Just development? I thought most of the British/American guns fired red tracers... This was the case in IL-2 but also what I had previous read.

Very interesting. So modern air combat is like Star Trek without transporters.:-P

All of that sound was probably edited in later after shot. Those 303s have a more rapid rate of fire than those 50 cals I'm sure.

I'd say the same thing. Nice update, thank you for the video with the sound. Sounds very good to me. Good luck with exhibition!!:grin:

Thank you for your imput Oleg.

There's one sound missing in most games that involve shooting rifles/machine guns that has a dramatic effect on the overal feel of "battlefield environment". The supersonic crack of the high speed bullets/shells flying by.
Is there a chance this effect could be part of SOW sound engine at some point? When i tried ARMA2 for the first time some time ago I imediately realised this is the first time I heared this high pitch "crack" in a game. It made the game a lot more imersive for me. :eek:

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZq-tlJTrU



Sorry. I couldn't resist.

We have it depending of different settings. We are develioping the series of sims, but the BoB is just the first one.
So we have different set of features or basic code for use future.

So there is possible to set one or other parameter in missions your are creating for the lights in this case. Not all is done for this, but you'll see it in future.

I think it is in Il-2 on some good sound cards sounding, if the card is capable to render it :).

They are different depending of the type of the bullets with tracers and the year of use.

Thank you for update Mr. Maddox. It all looks fantastic to me. Good luck with Nvidia presentation.