Man, awesome sunrise images, thank you.

I think it's sunset. The sun it getting higher as the camera gets higher ;)

i hope you were referring to the sky when you said the colour range was right, not the scenery

in the most recent screenshots with the low flying cluster of german aircraft over Brittan, the colour of trees and scrubs (and their spacing), looks to me more like the french maquis in a long bleaching summer, then the lush english vegetation in southern england (where i lived for 6 yrs)

since oleg repeatedly stated this is wip and vegetation colours and even trees shapes and types are not final, its not really worth debating if its right or wrong and i am not really concerned

somebody in the last couple of weeks posted 6 or 8 photographs of southern englands scenery (hedges and roads ?), and those colours were spot on from the way i remember them

here they are: posted by major-setback a few weeks ago: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...hedges&page=15

the brightest green ones could have been after a couple of rainy days and then some hot/warm days, and the more washed out greens (still much brighter and more colourfull then the recent ones seen in oleg's latest screenshot) would have been after a week or 2 of summer weather without any rain. maybe we need to have a wip-around and get oleg a package deal for a weekend in southern england, after all it is summer there now and the colors should be about right. anybody here from southern england that can comment more on these colors ?

The fact that this engine models the terrain on a globe is just nuts, and awesome. This game will be the gold standard for a decade, just like IL-2. I am hoping Oleg licenses the engine successfully and we can see what others can do with it as well.

Oleg is on vacation right at this moment. Maybe he is already in southern England ?!? :wink:

When Oleg first started giving us regular updates there were shouts of cartoonish colours!
And now they are too washed out!:confused:
But they are all WIP.
I can't help thinking that some people have expectations that would require a top of the range computer from about 20 years from now.:grin:

I think the updates we've seen so far are showing us a preview of a game that will be ground breaking, but it will have it's limitations.
After all it will still be just a game, probably an exceptional one, but still a game.:)

You might want to note that the summer of 1940 was in fact hot and dry. While Setback's pictures are good colourwise, I don't think they are of southern England. They look to be of hedgerows in the southwestern region; ie West of Bristol. This side of the country is directly in the path of the prevailing winds and receives far more rain than the southeast: but the southeast is where all the major action occurred. A hot dry summer in southeastern England turns grass brown very quickly.

Whether there is any plan for weather-related changes to land colours I don't know - but from midsummer to October (1940) the land would only have looked more faded with every passing week.

B

Clearly what the engine should do is calculate the quantities of precipitation and sunshine received with respect to a calendar of seasonal crop planting/harvesting and extrapolate the level of colour saturation and height of the grass and crops.

It should also take into account whether Farmer Jarge has decided to plant more wheat rather than mustard seed depending upon the predictions of the 1939 Almanac and war-time production priorities. It should estimate the likelihood of Farmer Jarge having taken in the crop depending upon the prior days' weather, local ale festival dates (two day hangover recovery-time), and whether his ewes came down with foot-and-mouth disease (the likelihood of this would have to be determined by a separate but reklated algorithm, obviously) and precluded him from attending to his crops. In addition, the algorithm used to calculate the breakdown/wear rate of aircraft could be applied to Farmer Jarge's farm equipment and horses/oxen to assist in the determination of field colour and length.

Finally, it would be nice to see derelict cars/poles/other obstructions placed in Farmer Jarge's South-East English fields in response to mandated precautions against German invasion gliders. Naturally, the number of said obstructions should gradually increase over time as it would be a total immersion killer to see the fields suddenly populated overnight with obstructions that had not been there the previous day.

While I'm thinking of it, it would be nice if the trees could bud/bloom/blossom in spring in accordance with their type and, conversely, change colour and lose their leaves in the fall in accordance with their type, the weather, the altitude of said trees, and local microclimates.

I hope this is not too much to ask, Oleg. All I really want is for the most realistic flight simulator possible. One which would be virtually identical to the real world, only I would be 6'1" and have a slight sexy scottish burr notwithstanding an education at Eton.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/wall...mpire11024.jpg

Despite some saturation from age, this is an ok example ;)

The color shade thing is pretty far down on my list of things I am looking forward to.

Shades are different on different computers. I see it all the time going form office to office when they all have the same background. One monitor will look washed out, another will look too vibrant. There is nothing a combat sim could do about that.

Most systems have some way of adjusting color. Some games have sliders to adjust colors, saturation, and such. All Oleg needs to do is get it close and he will never please everyone unless they adjust their system.

Flight models, damage models, frame rate savers, good mission infrastructure, multiplayer support....those things are what will make or break the game.

I'm not saying that people who are knocking the colors are wrong, just that those things are easy tweaks for the programmers and end users.

Splitter

Don't forget the beetle blight, no shire with the beetle blight will have blooms in summer. Unless they got the pesticide shipment, which the Germans can intercept. And therefore win the war. Because no self respecting Spit pilot will land at an airfield that is one rgb value out from the expected shade of grass. The AI pilots will assume its a ruse and strafe the field.

That's the spirit! :grin: Let's go further down the rabbit hole! Adding insect infestation should only be a little sub-routine to add ;)

I guess it means we can argue about whether the mandatory crop-dusting airplane is over- or under-modeled! :D

oleg ,,,,i see that you moddelled the walrus and sunderland in green and grey camo ....these were the colours for 1941 ,,the green / brown and sky were used upto then by raf commands .the defiant was used as a night fighter in late 1940..day fighter till then....hope this acn help u in anyway,,,,,ps,,cant wait for the release m8 great work to you an your team

It's going to be disappointing if they dont have bug infestation on a slider in the QMB and FMB...........and for each species of course....I'll wait for four more years for release for that jewel to be included......;)
-Eries

.. and phases of the moon, plant growth should be correct according to bio-dynamic principles.

More importantly the fishies should be correct with accurate swim models and respond appropriately to the bait used by the player :D

of course there is, the presumption is that all monitors used to judge the final colors are properly calibrated (including those commenting here, and mine is).

you do have a point tho, hardly anybody uses high end CRT anymore (still the best display technology), and even within lcd brands/models there is a significant variation. also most commenting on screenshots in this forum wont have calibrated their monitors, or even know how to do it. oleg's gfx team does still use crt's for that exact reason.

yeps, fully agreed. which is why oleg keeps emphasizing the scenery shots he has up to now been posting are wip (including the colors used). this doesnt mean we cant comment on what real english summer scenery looks like :) be this before or after global warming ;)

Since Oleg is modelling the entire globe, I assume he will be allowing for continental drift in his maps too. ;)

Indeed, also the large movement of the magnetic pole over the last 60 years needs to be taken into account.

http://www.physorg.com/news8917.html

You know, whilst I accept that the majority of requests for "fine detail/tuning" are made in jest, some are no doubt made seriously.
As far as I 'm concerned, I would like to see a flight sim released that has good FM's, graphics etc (ie by Oleg's standards ... which we know are excellent!).
I want to see SOW before I get too much older and would be happy to pay reasonable prices for subsequent add-on's.
So what I'm suggesting is that we encourage Oleg to get the product done (to his very high & exacting standards) and let the sim "develop" further thereafter.

Bingo.

...



Congratulations to the villagers of Ellesborough, Buckinghamshire.

Following the publication of our last friday update, these special guests have received the extreme honour, of becoming exclusive virtual members of the BoBSoWNoSe * community.




Ellesborough Neighbourhood looking southbound :

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39...lesborough.jpg

* BoB SoW North Sector : ))




At 51°N, even during winter solstice, I doubt the sun peeps above the horizon, to the south ?? :rolleyes:

...

The earth's ecliptic plane (ie, the plane where the sun's trajectory in relation to the earth lies, if we where to consider the earth as stationary and the sun as moving in relation to it) is near the equator. The equatorial plane doesn't coincide with the ecliptic one because of the tilt in the earth's axis, but it is close.

As such, the sun might move east to west during the day, but its apparent trajectory is always offset towards the equator, regardless of where the observer is standing. What this means is that for an observer in the north hemisphere the sun's apparent trajectory is still an east to west arc across the sky, but this arc is offset to the south. Notice, the arc is offset...the rise and sundown points are still east and west, it's the arc that connects them that exhibits the shift towards the equator. For a southern hemisphere observer it's similar but offset to the north.

Now, i don't know exactly how high the sun should be, or how much to the south the arc of its apparent trajectory lies in the place we see in the screenshots, but there definitely should be a shift to the south in regards to the sun's trajectory across the sky.

Pretty impressive that they model such things if you ask me, as that could hint at more nifty features for the future...night bombing missions and navigating by the stars anyone? ;)

Rudolphe, how can you be so sure that both images depict the same area?

Sigh....1st of all let me say i've lived in southern england all my life (West Sussex) so i'm well aware of how it looks. you talk about colour as if its a fixed state. It's not it changes constantly. Colour or your perception of colour is determined by all sorts of factors; light weather the seasons time of day. You "remember" southern Britain as lush and green yes it can be, right now because we haven't had any rain in a few weeks its looking rather dry and sunburnt. the grass is all yellow and burnt etc. my point is what you think something should look like and what would be a more realistic depicition are sometimes very different...most people look but only a few see.

It would, as it is below the arctic circle.

How did you figure out that Ellesborough location?

I think you are right about the location, BTW. You can see a river doing a bend in the screenshots, and if you check on Google maps you can see that the River Thames does that same bend!

It's funny becuase I would have guessed that the screenshots would have been taken from a location much further to the south - but maybe I am forgetting that England really is quite a small place - there is some statistic like no place in England is more than 100 km from the sea....... (or something like that).

Ditto, lived in Kent all my life, and besides from some of the evergreens and areas where there may be more precipitation, leggit is spot on. I mean, we've had really hot weather recently, and then the other day it rains and there's an absence of sunlight and bingo, the grass is already greener ;)

...


Use Google Earth to compare landscape, river valleys and woods and forests with those depicted on Oleg's screens. You Guys, that's pretty accurate ! :cool::cool::cool:

Start with the high altitude view than go down to the lower / ground level view.

http://www.checksix-forums.com/galle...00/Bucking.jpg



Sun position issue.


Hypothesis : The observer position alone has moved verticaly. The time is frozen.

On the high level view, check the relation between the Isle of Wight and the west coast of French Contentin and you'll find the sun has a southerly position.

On this ground level screenshot, look at the sun peeping south above the horizon.


http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...3&d=1278659463

Except if the observer lives near Tromsø, ;) at midwinter in the south UK :cool:, the sun should rise on a more eastward direction and should get a slightly more westerly sunset. :cool:


...

Thanks for the explanation Rudolphe, that makes sense!

Fire sucks

Very productive comment.

What did you mean?:)

I know its unlikely to happen, but I'd love to see crewmen panicking and screaming as their plane burns...

I hope you are joking proton45, if not your a very sick man.

Isn't that the premise of the film Backdraft?! ;)

you poor thing, all a bit much for you ?

yes of course the countryside in england can dry out due to weeks of no rain, but no that doesnt mean that part of england suddenly turns into scenery that resembles the french maquis in the south of france during summer

looking closer at the pictures again, to try and identify what exactly makes the scenery in that recent shot look more southern-france then southern-england to me (cluster of low flying german bombers): i think it is mainly the color of the tree foliage being to light, it should be a much richer lively brighter green (and no, not fluro green like we had a few months ago).

no need for escaping into psychobabble

unless the person is color blind or has some other visual defect, seeing and interpreting the landscape color spectrum around you in real life is no magical mystery tour requiring profound interpretation, it simply is what it is and can be accurately reproduced in visual media like video or photographs.

note: oleg repeatedly stated this is wip and vegetation colours and even trees shapes and types are not final
note 2; the same screenshot i am saying has to much of a bleached look to it in tree/foliage (not the agricultural fields themselves) also for the 1e time starts to show some combined BoB elements of scenery, low flying planes, houses, roads, fields, trees, forest, hedges (yes even a monthy python shrubbery !). oleg posted the picture for that reason i suspect, and it is good to see the project coming together (looks good !)

Zapatista, don't get angry because you're wrong. He is 100% correct; as much as the colours will be affected by rain, there was a great absence of this in the major part of the BoB with the weather changing in July to one of the hottest summers in History. If you still live in Blighty, you'd know about this. No need to quote me and explain how I am wrong, both leggit and I are correct, and whilst the colours would be affected by precipitation, an absence of this means that the grass would look exactly like I can see outside. Even with some rain in the past day, the grass is still dry and yellowed.

Also, although the shots posted show all these features together, a set of screens posted last year showed mostly all of the listed features even with smoking chimneys, so apart some very WIP terrain textures we haven't really been shown much more.

Hmmm...the terrain looks very bright indeed, as if it was "Storm of War: Battle for Middle Earth"

Then again, it might be totally realistic. Unfortunately, I'm not British. Can anyone from the Misty Albion tell me how close this is to reality?

Hey mate :D It's not close to how it would have looked during the BoB. I don't even think that these colours are that apparent in the wetter seasons here in Blighty...

http://www.bugbog.com/images/galleri...ds_airview.jpg

something like this may be closer, but even then the greens may be a bit too lush ;)

Well, I live in the south east of England, and here's what I can see from my window right now.


We have had very little rain lately, and it's been pretty hot, much like the summer of 1940. The garden on the left sees a lot of activity (kids, not Spits) and is not watered, much like a grass airfield 70 years ago. Looks pretty yellow to me.

The garden on the right has no kids and is watered all the time.

I'm guessing the one on the left is more realistic for 1940 airfield grass. Did people water their gardens in 1940? No idea. Does someone know?

Oh ... not saying which is my garden!!

PPanPan

They say "The neighbour's grass is always greener" so yours must be the one on the left :D

The in-game shots look a bit on the mynth green side compared to what Philip.Ed posted - me thinks

why is it so hard to actually read the text that was written, instead of replacing it with your own preconceived idea's and then arguing with yourself pretending it is what i said ?

grasses and crop plants react relatively quickly to drought or rain, trees dont (roots are much deeper and able to still access water for a longer period), and it is trees that in that screenshot mostly look to bleached/light imo . if you are in indeed in kent, just go out for a walk in the countryside, and have a look at the color of the tree foliage and hedges. obviously they dont go brown or bleached in the summer (yet grasses and crops can). only in the last stages, when the tree is dying, will that actually happen

philip.ed, dont get confused by seeing forum threads as chat fest, nobody needs to agree with you (or me). other posters comment in this thread are about comparing current scenery colors/tones/shades with real life events (as much as we can do so for a ww2 period), and for that it will need photographs/video from real life, not opinion (be this yours or mine). if you want to be productive and live in kent and it is a long dry summer there again, maybe go out with a decent digital camera and go take some landscape/scenery shots to post here.

Darn it, how did you guess?! :grin:

PPanPan

that latest picture from peterpan exactly illustrates my point, one garden might be wattered during drought (and its grass is therefore much greener), but it makes absolutely no difference to the trees and their foliage color on either side, those are exactly the same

disclaimer: these are oleg wip shots we are talking about, with him repeatedly stating colors and textures are not final

Well, I was talking about grass; not trees so my fact stands :D

what still stands is your confusion :)


that was my original comment, to which leggit replied he disagreed by saying

to which you are brightly chirping in

so no, you were in fact telling me i was wrong in my suggestions for color improvements for trees and shrubs, and you were specifically commenting to ALL vegetation (except your "evergreens") and grass (as if that is what i had posted), and as you can see my original statement was never about grass at all (but trees and shrubs) :)



in consolation, may i present you with a shrubbery from the knights who say NI, NI, NI !!!

i was still referring to grass there with the added persepctive that evergrees add a lot of colour to the otherwise dry environment.
SImple misunderstanding here, as I know what I am talking about!

all light hearted banter aside, in the latest screenshots this week the trees and shrubs (hedges etc) have now gone a much darker green (from the bleached and very light look we had last week), to dark i'd say in my humble opinion. looks now more like central europe, than the fair land of brits

still, since obviously oleg and Co can adjust this fairly quickly and easily "on the fly" (from one week to the next), i hope they take some of the constructive suggestions in consideration and look at some of the recent pictures posted for the "range of green" that is more typical in southern england. during the 6 yrs i lived in kent, i regularly traveled to northern france, belgium and holland. and the lush greens of england always stood out to me as having a very different "feel" and atmosphere compared to the vegetation in the neighboring countries. being able to get that "roughly right" in the colors and tones for BoB will do a lot to immersion and "suspending disbelief".

i am no photographer or digital grafix artist, but shouldnt it be possible to use some digital photographs of english scenery in a gfx program and then be able to exactly get the RGB values for the colors in the image ? doing that on a bunch of good digital images of english vegetation images should then be able to get a "color range" for the greens for different tree types, hedges, various shrubs, and grasses (the farm fields in the recent images looked pretty good to me, its the "greens" that didnt sem to represent england so far, to me at least)

hope all this is seen as the constructive feedback it is intended as :)

Well, I don't think the trees themselves look that good at the moment, so I will wait until it's released to pass judgement 100% but I agree with you zap.

Here's the thing, I was playing Il-2 today, and with forest=3 I can see the trees moving in the wind. I played WoP and the sequence looks a lot better in Il-2. As a flyer, I am happy to see moving grass, but maybe they don't need to have leaves themselves moving? Surely this way they could get better looking trees with less fps impact?

I mean, the trees in the first set of shots released look better than what we see now. I am sure everything will be tweaked a lot, but I think they should look at the trees in RoF and make ones that look similar, as the RoF trees look like English trees IMO.