Hi again Oleg & Team!
 

Guys, what do you think about, your vision from the cockpit, to be restricted from the 3D frames of aviator's eyeglasses and 3D oxygen mask? Total immersion in SOW-BoB, ...Jut imagine.

...Or may be first I should have to buy them, then equip myself with them, and then to fly online...: )

~S!

<------BG-09------<<<

Fully agree. The long pitot tube and the extended rudder tabs were introduced first in 1941 with 110E type IMHO. Unfortunately I don't have official construction drawings to prove it.

No need to insult each other about that. We're just trying to advert to small facts.

After looking at stars in the daytime at 6Km alt for the past 8 years, I will be joyfull when the worst mistakes are size of pitot tube and rudder tab. :rolleyes:

Great pics Oleg. The detail on the buildings is excellent and the real shadows inside the hanger really bring things to life.
This is the first time I've seen buildings that actually appear part of the environment.

Nice looking grass too. I think airbases generally kept the grass pretty short on most of the field though.

I'll probably regret wading into this, but in 'Wings of the Luftwaffe' by Captain Eric Brown there are two pictures of a BF110C-4 (Werk-Nr 2177) which was forced down at Goodwood on 21 July 1940, and you can see there is no extended pitot.

In another picture, a C-4 captured in 1944 does show one. Presumably this was a modification, assuming that the extended pitot, having been added to later series, performed better.

Zorin is merely being 'frank', and as English is not his first language, we should cut him some slack. There are plenty of posters here for whom English is their first language but who still engage in very rude exchanges.

I do not criticize you .............. but I often ask a question?
Who decided that the English 'world language?
maybe everything was decided after the second world war?
This is the list of most languages' spoken in the world.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ative_speakers


but now with so much technology mankind has not a single language or a machine to translate the 6,500 types of language.

not to invent a new language only world?


ACTUALLY IS CHINESE AND ESPANIOL the FIRST LENGUAGGE IN THE WORLD ENGLISH IS 3 LENGUAGGE IN THE WORLD

Not suggesting English is the world language at all: my point is that it's not Zorin's native language, and whilst his command of english is indeed superb, he may come across more bluntly than he intends.

He's a nice guy :)

Indeed. :)

The early model of Pitot tube we are talking about, seen here on 3U+JT, of 9./ZG 26.
Although a Bf 110 E (the squared airscoop on the nose is clearly visible on the original photograph), this aircraft retained the "L-shaped" model, previously used on C and D (and maybe B) types.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...10CD_Pitot.jpg

Maybe you are right, it`s not easy to write down "only" informations. But to change such minor things like a pitot tube is easier than changing stuff in code or even finishing the game ;)
I always say lets see how the final product will be, if we have a chance to update during development, ok it`s welcomed.

But sorry Zorins comment looked like nitpicking, maybe it was just an informaiton for Oleg ;)

The Pitot tube model chosen by Oleg Maddox (...IMHO mistakenly, with due respect, for a Bf 110 C but I unfortunately don't have any "factory" proof, only a lot of photographic evidences...) is this one, straight and slimmer, fitted under the leading edge of the port wing, as seen on 3C+GS of 8./NJG 4:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...110E_Pitot.jpg

According to John Vasco, about the Bf 110 E: "...during the production run, the pitot tube was changed from the original 'L' shape to a longer slimmer mast that protruded forward of the wing leading edge..."

I feel that we should lay the blame for this argument soley on the mangers, designers and workers of the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke, who obviously can't follow the blueprints when making thier aircraft and felt that they need to play around with the design!

You'ld think that if you were going to change the design of something like a pitot tube (measuring airspeed is a reasonable fundimental aspect of aircaft operation) they would document it?

Of course the alied bombing may not haved helped, but you'ld think they'ld keep copies of important information in a number of places, or maybe they just didn't care? Obviously they did not forsee a time 70 years in the future where their lack of forsight would cause arguments!

cheers!

Well sorry, but no, if every picture and every manual for the period, plus all research material does show the correct pitot tube, antenna positions and trim tabs, there is no reason to blame anyone else but the guy who build the plane model. (And if there is still something not clear, why not ask the community of thousands of people who would help gladly?)

But anyway, it has been pointed out now and that is all I wanted to do. The necessary material can be found in the links I gave in my previous post and the rest is up to Oleg and team.

@Novotny and Foobar: Thanks for backing me up. :)

Sorry for my attempt at humour, I'm Australian and english is not considered our native language (by the English at least) Mate!

I went to that link and unfortunately am not interested in German aircaft enough to pay 30 euros check out the publications in person.

If you own them I'm sure the copyright laws will allow you to reproduce a small portion of the designs for academic discussion (as we're having here!). You never know, if they contain enough detail they may prompt the design team to purchase the said designs for inclusion into BoB or one of the early patches.

Cheers

and keep up the good fight!

Hey, Skoshi Tiger, I´m not english too and I´m curious about the meaning of the word "Skoshi".
Can you translate to me?
Thanks,mate.

Hi Oleg,

Are the clouds WIP? I notice that they are not enough bright on top, at least on my screen.

Clouds and sky usually occupy a vast portion of the screen :), and are are among the most important players in a "photo-realistic" flight simulation.

Cheers,
Insuber

Made a quick scan from Mr. Vasco's book to prove my point about the position of the ring antenna and aerial.

1. Photograph of a Bf 110 C rear fuselage interior

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...stioning_2.jpg

2. Screenshot with marked new positions

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...itioning_1.jpg

Shadows
 

Long time lurking, first time post.
Nice update Oleg, however, I have trouble with the screenshot of the Tiger-Moth inside the hangar.
The Hangar does not appear to cast a shadow onto the Tiger Moth, and (worse) the Tiger-Moth does not appear to create any shadow on the ground (I would expect a blurry, but darker shadow underneath the Moth. My guess is that the code allows for a maximum shadow strength (all direct light occluded), after which only ambient light lights the object. This works ok. outdoors, but here the result is that the maximum level of darkness inside a building (6 km down a coal mine?) equals the ambient lighting level outside. The whole issue may stem from spending too much time inside hangars though...
Flutter

+1, Zorin.
Look also at the "Fliegerdenkmal" pictures on page 138 of John Vasco's book you are mentioning: "Bf 110 C,D and E - An Illustrated Study" published by Classic in 2008 with great profiles by Fernando Estanislau.
They clearly show the D/F loop antenna was positionned between fuselage frames 10 and 11. (By the way, these numbers, 1 to 18, were stencilled only on port side).

As far as I understand it, it's an American corruption of the Japanese word "Sukoshi" or "Little"

"Skoshi Tiger" was the name for the trials of the F-5A fighter during the Vietnam War. Ever since Janes USNF simulators the planes been a favourite of mine. :)

Zorin,

You've convinced me. Unfortunately my opinion means Zip. Hopefully the developers will look into possiblity of an update.

Cheers!

...

The ambulance parked along the hangar, got some similarities with that Austin K2. ;)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...5&d=1273240774



http://www.armyvehicles.dk/images/austink2y.jpg


http://newimages.fotopic.net/?iid=11...=90&noresize=1



...

...


And to find out another RAF ground support equipment like this oil browser cart standing next of this "delightfull" Tiger Moth.


http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...8&d=1273240822



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/OilB.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Defiant1.jpg


...

it's fridayyyyy........

There may not be an update...

Oleg has gone to some kind of Game developer conference.

Ah yes, he wrote two weeks in his update, 1st page of this thread...

aah the ever present 2 week joke.

pretty much the equivalent of Achy Breaky Heart, really.

remember a song you heard a few times, loved it, then youve heard it so very many times now the thought of it makes you physically ill?

but some moron keeps bringing it up, assuming the hilarity can never end?

yeah.

Seeing as I notice that the camouflage texture and insignias are independent of each other will the following be possible?

A real immersion killer on all WWII flight Sims since the dawn of the genre has been the lack of individuality between aircraft of the same type, from the same squadron.

Taking the Hurricane Mk.I screenshots already posted as an example, it bears the code "DT-A" on it's fuselage. As your probably aware, during the BoB, and indeed throughout WWII, the RAF used the first two letters of this code to denote the squadron, and the final letter to denote the individual aircraft from that squadron.

Therefore, will individual aircraft bear different letters to others from the same squadron, i.e:

DT-A,
DT-B,
DT-C... etc, etc.

Not only would add some personalization to the player's aircraft (possibly customizable by them), but it would also lay to rest the "cloned" feeling one gets when viewing multiple aircraft from the same squadron.

If each letter of the alphabet (For the RAF fighters) and all the numbers / rank insignia displayed on the aircraft were customizable by the player, it may also allow WWII historical squadrons to dress up their planes in the way their real-life counterparts were actually presented.

With only 26 letters, 10 numerals (0-9) and a certain number of rank insignia for the German planes, it would not require a massive amount of graphics to do.

Maybe also provide font templates with the mod tools after launch to that people can customize their planes in line with those of their favourite squadron.

I'm not someone who has played any of the other IL-2 titles so I'm unaware if this has been implemented in prior games. Also, I apologize if this has already been suggested.

Seeing as Oleg has already admitted to being a perfectionist, I thought I'd highlight this often neglected area of customization, as I would also welcome such an eye for detail.

;)

Edit: Also, will ALL historically accurate insignia make it onto the German planes? or is this too touchy an issue? I know other developers have avoided this issue in the past by "omitting" certain insignia. I think you know where I'm going with this question. I only ask in the interests of historical accuracy.

Until countries like Germany relax their laws concerning symbols like the swastika I think Olegs company is constrained to restrict symbols in his sims. These countries represent a large part of the market for the sim and it would be bad business if he made it impossible to sell his product in those countries.

[Rant mode=ON]
I personally don't have a problem with seeing these symbols in a historical context, but have had to ban my step-daughters skinhead ex-boy friend from wearing hate symbols in my house (Luckily he's no longer on the scene-hmmm wonder why???). Any Nazi fanboy is a dweeb in my book and needs to get out and get a life and start seeing the value in human diversity rather than blaming everyone else but them selves for their personal failings.
[Rant mode=OFF]

The strange thing is that same laws in Germany used to restrict anti-nazi symbols (maybe they still do???) such as a swastika crossed out by a circle and line as well. Go Figure?

For those interested in historical accuracy I'm sure there will be an abundance of community created skins available.

cheers!

gib, if you have played BoB2, it has a multiskin with nearly every skin seen in the BoB. As you say, this multiskin has the individual codes etc of the planes, which is a real immersion factor when playing the sim ;)

There are already individual aircraft numbers in IL2, but the rest of the skin in the stock campaigns is usually "cloned" for aircraft of the same squadron. Think of it as the skin being the base for all of the squad's aircraft, with individual stencils applied for the aircraft codes.

As for other insignia, a lot of squads have their own and in many cases these are already represented in IL2. So, thus far i really have no doubt that what you're asking about is going to be included in the new sim as well since it was in the old one to begin with. However, what will really set individual planes apart in the new sim will be the application of weathering on a separate layer.
I guess the base camo/skin will still be the same and each plane will have its own code, but with weathering applied the new planes will look factory fresh while the old ones look worn out, with flaked paint and long exhaust and gun port streaks. In IL2 you have to manually change a skin yourself to include such things, but in the next series of sims the aircraft will age on its own as you fly missions.

For the axis insignia now, the fact that Germany outlaws the use of the swastika means that probably any european distribution of the title will not depict it. As explained before, this is done so that the game can be sold in Germany but there will probably be modifications or custom textures added later on by the users, just like it happened with IL2. As for luftwaffe squadron insignia, there's a guy from the community here in these forums that has taken it upon himself to research each and every one of them in order to ensure maximum historical accuracy.

The short answer about the things you ask for is, we'll get some of it because it was already in IL2 and not having it in SoW would be a step backwards, we'll get some new things too from Oleg's team and their new technologies, community members are providing extra feedback and material to fill in the blanks and whatever you don't get on release someone from the community will probably provide later on. So, sooner or later you'll probably get everything you ask for markings-wise ;)

Agreed. I was hesitant in mentioning it, as the discussion of the subject usually descends into a hate-filled slanging match on most forums I've read. But like I said, in the interests of historical accuracy only, i would welcome the immersion factor of their inclusion.

Even an invisible "placeholder" so enterprising graphics artists can add it after-market will suffice. As several have commented, these things usually get added by the 3rd party modders quite quickly so it's not a big issue for me.

I noticed the unique squadron codes in BoB-II, yes, that must be the only time I've seen it modeled from the box. Nice touch. I come from an on-line WWII MMO that will soon be shutting it's doors for good, so up until this point, I've never seen the need to purchase a commercial flight sim. That's all going to change now, and even if that wasn't the case, this sim looks so damn beautiful, from the screens that have already been posted, I'll be buying it whatever the price is. The only other sim I've ever purchased was European Air War, simply because it had a "BoB" campaign. I'm English, and fiercely patriotic about the BoB in general, so SoW is like a dream come true for me.

:)

Nice inclusion with the Matilda Mk.II (favourite tank) as well, but trim down those Mudguards Oleg, those were very seldom used in practice, most commonly replaced with shorter versions, or removed altogether.

I also notice from the recently posted video, that the Dornier Do-17 is equipped with Daimler Benz DB-601's. From my research, the Do-17Z and Do-217E used the BMW-801A 1,580hp, 18-cylinder radial engine, an earlier version of the engine used in the Fw-190A. Not sure if this is an oversight, or something that was present on the original blueprints, but i do remember reading about another aircraft (might of even been the Fw-190) that was originally going to be fitted with DB-601's, but because of a shortage in DB-601 engines due to Bf-109 production, it too was converted to using radial engines at the design stage.

Edit: Just had a look in one of my WWII aircraft books, and it states that initially, the Do-217 was fitted with the Do-215's DB-601 in-line engines, but that the fitting of the BMW 801 radial transformed the aircraft. Quite what they mean, I don't know, but I would assume they mean much better performance with the BMW-801's.

Regards.

about those clouds
 

I look forward to the super-duper cloud detail. As a mission builder, will I be able to set cloud ceilings in SoW-BoB (and maybe set turbulence too)? I think it would be great to have a couple of flights of fighters sneak across the channel, flying under low clouds to deliver a surprise attack on an enemy airfield. Be nice to duck into a low cloud layer. Will it be possible set this in the mission editor?
thanks!
Flyby out
PS Oleg, how's the game conference going. Wouldn't hurt my feeling if you posted a video update showing what's going on. ;)

What makes you think, it is Do-17?

May be, you should research more, to find that Do-17Z was equipped with Bramo-323 9-cylinder engine.

I stand corrected on the Do-17Z

:)

Regards.

And a "Dornier Do 17 equipped with Daimler Benz DB-601s" ...is a Do 215 :)

So i just found out. just saw the screenshots of the Do-17Z in one of the other threads.

Never seen any photos of the Do-215 and i've been a WWII buff for a long time. Guess you learn something new every day. That'll teach me to panick-post, lol.

:)

Regards.

...


These magnificient Dornier Do 17Z and Do 215B should be available in SOW.


You guys remember those 2005 screenies.

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/do1720rap.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nier_Do_17.jpg




http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/do-215_2_1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...47/Do215_2.jpg

;)

One such group to use the Dornier Do-17 were 9/KG76, a squadron that had practiced and perfected extremely low-level attacks using the aircraft during the battles for France and the low countries.

There is a painting called "Eagle Day" that depicts a burnt-out Do-17Z of KG76 being overflown by a Hurricane of 111 squadron who were also in action along with 615 squadron on the day.

Thanks for calling me a moron.

Let me just quote Oleg in the first posting of this thread:

So easy to call somebody a moron from behind your computer screen. I´d punch you in the face if you did it face to face, but you´re not the kind of person who would dare that, obviously...

lol @ liking "Achy Breaky Heart" for even a millisecond

Right on, atrocious song from the first hearing.

haaa hahaha overreact much?

not familiar with the two week quip done to death with il2 hmmm?

and, for your info, in my particular job, people try and punch me on a daily basis usually as im the last kind of person they want to see right at that time, but im still here ;)

and give the e-tuffness a break eh?

lets get back to aeroplanes.

sorry, where you come from it is probably normal to call others morons (sad culture you come from, but you cannot help it if that is your culture). It isn't normal where I come from.

ME WANT UPDATE! :-x

:-P

Me want release date !!

Me want a date :-p

Me want cookies now!

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._aufgeregt.jpg

@ Zorin and others:

1. Main problem is not in C-7 and stuff... Problem (or not - from different points of veiw) is that C-4 (and C-7. made from C-4) was NOT a main and usual model of Bf110 in Battle of Britain. It was actually a war of C-2 and D-0/3 :) Most part of C-4 gone for night fighter regiments. Loss lists of ZG2, ZG26 and ZG76 together with losslists of V./LG1 confirm that.

2. About aircraft itself. As far as I know, C-7 was chosen by MG for fill the "Bf110 Jabo" gap with minimal reworks. And, it was done with elements of "early" or "factory built" Bf110C-7's, and with elements (like Pitot tube and enlarged trims) of "late" or "field" Bf110C-7's, wich were actually mainly Bf110C-1/2/4 "in virginity". There are many photos, BoB period, of Bf110C-7 with VERY different upgrades, like armored windglass, armorplate for pilot e.t.c.

3. Yes, making Bf110D-3 for "Jabo role", wich is closer to history, would be great, but it would need to add some Bf110D-7 elements and rework rear fuselage section. If that would be done, it would need a several weeks to do. All we know, that time is very strickt. So...

4. Let we stay away from pitot and trims on Bf110C-7. We should better ask to show it on Bf110C-4 image. THAT would be critical.

5. Ring antenna, really, must be moved back to 1/2 of fuselage section.

:grin:LOL Excellent , best laugh all day.

:D

Yet there can be not one photo that shows these features, large pitot tube and enlarged trim tab, because they were introduced with the E series after the BoB. Just to make that clear. Even though there were a number of modifications, these were not among them during BoB and therefor are WRONG.

@Zorin
it seems that you are right, but realistically you can hope for a change in a later patch!
Right now it is very more important to deliver a finished game!
Those details are important for screenshots and movies, not for the regular gameplay.

All I hope for, at this stage, is an acknowledgment that they made mistakes and are willing to fix them.

I respect Oleg's stance that he wants prove via official documents, but in this case it is like I said: "The sky is blue." and he asks for official documents to prove it. It is a plain fact, dictated by logic, that features that where first build in the winter 1940/1941, can't be found on a summer 1940 plane.

1. Good point.

2. Agree.
First Bf110C-7 (factory built - only 39 airctafts) - produced from july 1940 to september 1940.
First 8 Bf110E-2 produced in october 1940, and largely went in series on december 1940.

At the same time, around december, most of survived C-2's, C-4's were repaired and upgraded to C-7, and got it name in official documents.

I accept MG position about Bf110C-4. It was not a main "zerstorer" of BoB, but... It is chosen, and "let it be".
From september 39 to july 1940 there were 359 Bf110C-2 built. Also, ~200 Bf110D-0/1/2/3 were built from march to november 1940. And we must not forget about 50 new Bf110E-1, wich saw operational in october - november 1940 during Battle of Britain. And all these bunch are against "dead-end model" Bf110C-4, produced from may 1940 to september 1940, in number of 155 aircrafts.

I can list a several ZerstorerGruppen, wich operated and lost in action mainly Bf110C-2, or Bf110D, up to 80% of all losses.

See, this is what I meant with well of wisdom. Oleg has it right here at his disposal and he isn't making good use of it, apparently. If he only had asked the right questions prior to the point of choosing the aircraft types and starting their build process ...

In MG, JaBo version of Bf110 was not even in plans, as well as I know. And much later, when BF110C-4 was made, MG decided to have JaBo with MINIMAL REWORK.

Sometimes, I think that it would be better not to have JaBo in release, but in first patch/addon we would have really new modelled Bf110D-3, JaBo with enlarged fuselage.

Seitenruder-Trimmklappen und Staurohr
 

...


Well, Thanks to "The Few", members resources, we've got those "nitpicking details" :rolleyes: fixed.

Great ! Oleg's team care about us. :grin::grin:



ZG 26 "Horst Wessel"

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...3&d=1282307881



http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...8&d=1281706367

...

...