It would be no different than what IL-2 was like since its release. HakenEnable to the rescue. And leaving a spot empty where the swastika belongs is necessary or else the swastikas would not be an extra texture, but rather they would need to hide it with an extra texture (not as pretty).

well, it's not in MY nature, afaik :-D
A website takes away resources from the important things!
We are addicted anyway, as you can see by the emotions here.
And to spoil the surprises we get when we can finaly buy BoB:SoW, what for?

i wonder is olegs team is doing displacement like these guys. these precudural techniques rock :) http://www.outerra.com/wgallery.html

In my opinion the swastikas should be included :)

Honestly, I don't know what you guys expect to see.
A plane? You already saw several planes, even in flight, internals, skins, modeling of internals and systems, cockpit-views, you even saw a StuKa dive-bombing, pilot-models, pilots bailing out, exhaust-flames, .....
Damage model? You already saw dozens of screenshots of how damage looks and works.
So what would you want to see? Real ingame videos of dogfights? It's not gonna happen now, for various reasons and it was stated several times in the meanwhile.

I can understand that waiting is not really pleasant - I'd love to start flying tomorrow, but it won't happen, so what? Complaining won't change it and it won't make waiting any easier.

To the complains themselves: To the complains in general:
If you can't take it then don't dish it out.
Nobody here will deny your right on your own opinion, but if you criticize something or somebody in an official forum, why are you so surprised when you get criticized as well?


So far, I'm glad there is no website. Leaves more resources for the project.
Until then, there are a couple of nice websites gathering information and pictures.
Foobar's

No it shouldn't.

a) because of the legal problems in several countries
b) because you can make your own skins with swatiskas, if you want them.
c) because there will be a mod enabling swatiskas and then Oleg won't be the one to blaim.

Oleg is sharing with our community. That does not call for complaints, whines and bitter comments. He doesn't have to share anything with us.

Oleg does appreciate constructive thoughts and critique, that is why he hangs around and answers questions. No one wants to be blasted for being a nice guy and sharing.

All of us, who frequented the Oleg's Ready Room at UbiSoft knows that when Oleg gets enough... he is gone.

BINGO

:grin:

Well I just want the most real game, I know that it is forbid in Germany, but not in my country. Could be make an option in the install...
I hope some modder do it

IMHO, it's simple.

Planes with swastikas are historically correct. Erasing them and pretending they never existed, as done in Germany and a few other countries, won't change a thing - it's history, it happened, deal with it. Having a plane without swastikas when it actually had is as wrong as having a pink Spitfire as default. "If you don't like it, just make a skin yourself."

It's useless to fight the law ("...and the law won"), we probably won't change it. I for myself think it's just complete bullshit to try to erase it, but so what? The folks making the laws think otherwise, and I'm not too sure, but they probably don't care about my opinion.

Having it as optional is fine. Oleg can't go in trouble because he gave an option to have them, anyway. Pretend Maddox Games is a weapon maker, Storm of War is the gun. Guns can kill, and killing is sort of illegal in most places. Can they go in trouble if the costumer bought his product and commited a crime with it?

I'm not aware of how the laws apply in Germany, Hungary, Austria and co., so it might actually be considered illegal, but it makes no sense whatsoever.

Something that could work would be having some sort of official patch for enabling swastikas. So those interested in having them could just download the files, install/copy them into Storm of War's root folder, and done. Those who don't want it, just don't download it.

(Is the text actually understandable? I can rewrite it if necessary, it might be a bit confusing)

Not being allowed to have swastikas in the game is as ridiculous as the gore censorship that exists in germany and australia. Politicians need to grow up.

I actually asked Oleg on his stance to something similar but not SoW related and he said that there was a new law in Russia which apparently makes it problematic to use the swastika in computer games. This is my reading of his reply, but that's beside the issue.

German law is quite clear: No swastika at all, except in art, education or documentation. Computer games are just that - games (or toys, as several courts have said). Even having it optional is prohibited here so I guess unless Oleg does a specific german release version (for which there is no indication so far - the same policy as with Il-2 seems to be in place) he won't ship the game with swastikas as default (or even option). So IMO the best option is to make provisions for historical markings but not ship the graphical files with the game. Leave open the marking gfx to the user and he can easily insert the relevant files when he feels like it. Same for the Finns and et voila ... everyone's happy.

EDIT: I think the german law is spot on given our unique history. I do not want to see the right-wing idiots marching through our streets with the Reichskriegsflagge so a few hoops to jump through for accurate markings is a price I'm prepared to pay.

Hey, judging from what I've seen in the updates and in Il-2, it's art, education and documentation on my book :mrgreen:

But just a question, the German law covers even pre-Nazi swastikas?

Stalin murdered millions people in Siberia prisons and no one complains about the Red Star. There is the right-wing idiots and the left-wing idiots. Difference is that the last win the war.

If you wanna use pink spitfire i have no objection, we must respect sexual orientation diversity...

Ernst, actually, in Hungary the Red Star (actually, all "totalitarian symbols", if I remember correctly) is forbidden as well ;)

Here we go again... Hakenkreuze - the most useless discussion ever. Don't waste your energy on that.

I think the banning of the Finnish Air Force swastika in Germany is very stupid, since Finland had just as little in common with the German Nazi party between 1917 and 1941 as did any other European country.

However, the German law says:

(1) Whoever:

1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or

2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1,

shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

(2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.

I think the last sentence is what makes ANY swastika illegal there. End of discussion, please.

Looking at the movie, as someone said above the Panhard antennas have inertia ... they move realistically according to elastic and inertial laws.

Inertia is clearly modeled also in Il2, but the elasticity could be a novelty in the simulations field, afaik. Not overly difficult imho, but still you must have the idea ...

Regards,
Insuber

In some instances even antifascists were charged for using the swastika in symbols like this:

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,60771,00.jpg

Fortunately the highest German court finally made an end to such a ridicous abuse of the law but I would try to avoid any lawsuit just to include a feature that adds almost nothing to the sim, even if there would be a chance for SOW to be considered as "art, education and documentation".

I know that the swastika is illegal in several countries (didn't know that Russia had brought out a new law though), but I would like to see them in the SoW series if at all possible.
After all, it was Nazi Germany that Britain was at war with.

It seems strange that Oleg and his team are going to so much trouble to get the smallest of details correct, like RAF cap badges for example, and yet a huge emblem that was on all German planes is ommited.

There is probably a legal can of worms here, but would it not be possible to have no swastika as the default, but an option say at installation or in game to enable swastikas. If you tried to enable the swastika a legal disclaimer would appear stating that it is illegal to use this option in Germany, Austria, etc, which you would have to acknowledge to proceed ( a bit like the EULA contract when installing most games ).
Would this not move the possibilty of braking the law from the game maker or publisher onto the individual who has the game?

We would probably need a lawer to answer that one, but just an idea.

Having said that, I would rather have SoW without swastikas than no Sow at all.

Thanks for the update. I'm really looking forward to Fridays now.

The swastika marking on German planes is not a problem in IL-2, you could easily get that feature if you really wanted to, so why should there be in SoW?

We don't need a dedicated website at this time. What would a dedicated website provide that we aren't already getting. Its too early to start advertising the game to the general public and a waste of time, money, and effort until it is.

Also the swastika can be easily added by modders, so its exclusion, is just an overreaction to a non-existent problem.

You couldn't get the swastika in the international version of Il-2 - only after some folks fiddled with external programs. In Il-2 itself there was no way to activate the swastika and the hakaristi and there still isn't a way to do this. Even the russian version had a switch in the conf.ini (the HakenAllowed=1 line) which wasn't there by default.

Again - historical accuracy in this case is irrelevant as long as Maddox Games makes just one international version, which in this case has to obey §86 of the german penal code and totally omit any swastika (and any optional activation of it).

What I hate is when they put black blocks or crosses on the tails of aircraft. They should just leave them blank.

csThor, but let's take the example of Foobar's skins.

He's German, and makes historically accurate skins (so, with swastikas). To avoid any legal problem, he leaves a disclaimer at the installation. I've never heard of any issue involving his skins.

Couldn't this be done with Storm of War?

Wrong question to wrong person. Oleg will do it right within legal matters. However, the last word will have the publisher - if not even 1C will. Relax and calm down. MG will do it right.

If 1C:Maddox wish to put Swastikas on German aircraft, I'm sure they will seek legal advice, and if they are in any doubt, err on the side of caution. I'd have thought there are more important issues for them to be concerned with at present, and I'm also sure that third-party software will be able to add them for those who want it.

If you think the law in Germany or elsewhere is wrong on this issue (I've got mixed feelings myself) , you are free to advocate change, but I don't really think it is reasonable to expect a commercial company to fight your political battles for you.

We can just solve all of this by just using custom skins just like we always have so why are we really talking about this? People like me who want them on their German planes for movies can just search for custom skins after a few days. I'm sure all of the skinners will be in heaven over this sim. Unless I'm misunderstanding and SOW will be able to detect a swastika on a custom skin LOLOL.

I really don't understand all this discussion about swastika

There are several IL2 utilities that place swastika on aircraft now. I'm sure with SOW similar utilities will be created.

Oleg will not put swastika on aircraft, at least that is my understanding from Il2. He would have none of it.

Its sad how a nice friday update became a pointless discussion about what the developer should be showing and swastikas.

Please, if you want the game come with swastikas, or talk about if it should have them, or not, or the german and any other country law, why don't you guys start another threat about the subject and leave this for talking about the update.
Same about if you are not happy about what its being shown.

Please, let those that are interestend on the update, enjoy and ask about it.

S!

Amen!

Amen +1!

Back on topic: To me it seems like the antennas are not only moving due to inertia (the wobling) but also bending due to windforces as the vehicle is turning with a constant speed! How much attention to detail is that? Finetuning windforces and bendingstrenght of antennas?
Oleg has (IIRC) stated that planes will be affected by the slipstream of other planes flying in front of it, I guess these effects comes from the same programming feature.
We are also getting working suspension for vehicles!
These are fantastic features, bringing much life and immersion to the game, but they must be enormously time consuming. I can not understand how MG is capable of putting so much stuff into this game before it is released.

Skarphol

Oleg, those aerials are ok, but you still didn't reach the level of excellence shown in the movie Airplane!...

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5...lloclipel1.gif

;)

As others have said, I think this swastika issue is a moot point. As long as it can be enabled post-release, I'll be satisfied. Don't get me wrong though. I'm all for historical accuracy and think banning the use of the swastika (especially in a historical context such as what SoW is depicting) is absurd, but I blame the politicians, not Oleg. I think his hands are tied. If in some weird alternate reality the roles had been reversed and Russia was an Axis member and Germany was Allied, we'd probably be seeing this debate with the "hammer and sickle". The USSR was just as criminal, if not more so, than Nazi Germany, but that doesn't seem to matter. The victors write the history, as they say. Anyway, it is a moot point regardless of how we feel about it.

Similarly, I would like to see SoW have realistic violence too, but because the politicians of some countries seem to feel the need to take it amongst themselves play nanny to their constituents, this is yet another realism factor that has to go by the wayside resulting in a whitewash of what was harsh reality for airmen back then...
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LIABILITY INSURANCE FORUMS

So that settles the Swastika on Heinkel-issue. They can't add it, so they leave it empty, so the community can add it - if they want. Mystery explained. :)

Here's a thought - imagine being in the Heinkel fuselage (gunner position etc) and looking OUT through the bullet holes.

And then imagine a hurricane crashing into the fuselage just behind where you were standing, cutting off the whole tail section with its wing. Such nice air conditioning. :)

Imagine tumbling out of the opening! That would be pretty dramatic, though I somehow doubt that would be depicted.

________
How To Insert Starcraft 2 Replays

I think I'd rather imagine being back home in Dusseldorf with an accommodating fraulein. ;)

Haha! Me too! Of course perhaps I would be lucky enough to tumble out, land on a nice, soft pile of hay, and meet up with an accomodating British farm lass. Or get jabbed with a pitch fork; one or the other. :-P
________
M41

The view should remain with the crewman, as even in IL-2 one is only teleported to outside view if trying to bail out or the aircraft is completely destroyed (which is defined as everything exploding into tiny pieces, either in-flight or by striking the ground hard). This means we shouuuld be able to see such awesome events.

A lot of cool stuff could be possible some time after the game has been out. Third party improvements of crew behaviour. What I rank highest is that the pilot and crew were rendered and stopped being ghosts. It feels quite messed up (even after many years of 'mostly' seeing the phenomena) looking around in the cockpit or wherever and having no legs, arms, torso - nothing. And the controls move by themselves..

I'm willing to bet that the crew/pilot body rendering will come, and be done at first more statically, but then better and better. Because like with almost everything in any game so far, realism sneaks in. For the longest people were used to 50km/h movement/strafing speeds and high jumps due to Quake being so dominating in FPS. The reaction of some friends when introduced to rainbow six was very hostile. Then the idea of aiming through iron sights. Many thought that was ridiculous, impractical - who would want to do that? Can't see properly, what the hell. Years later, a standard in most cases. The only explanation for this resistance to simulation (the type that should appeal to them to begin with) is that previous experiences set a norm and expectations to how a certain type of game is supposed to be like. Just like in India, a movie can only be truly successful if it contains at least 7 dance and song numbers (or something like it).

I get side-tracked. I wanted to say that, I think some cunning third party maker will release some ultra-immersive B-17 & crew simulator, where the crew can move around in the aircraft, get sucked out, medic attending to wounds, messing with the ball turret getting jammed, reloads, full body rendering etc etc.

EDIT: Remaining in first person and seeing arms unbuckle, pull the canopy release and then try to get out, and remaining in there and in control of the view all the way to the ground. That is immersion. We already heard parachutes were steerable, and there may be a slight chance we can thus be in first person view at some point when leaving in the aircraft.

I already have arms and legs and can see them just fine, thank you

And I already have a joystick, pedals and throttle and I can see it just fine. What were you just trying to suggest again?

this may have been addressed before but I'm wondering if there will be offline multiplayer support. If I have a dual monitor or LAN setup can a friend jump on and be a tail gunner/co-pilot/AA? and then could we play like that online too?

precisely

If you are trying to argue for what I think you are (I can't assume 100% since you only hinted at it), you think that since you can (if you move your head and eyes far enough) see your arms and legs, so it is superflous to have it rendered in the cockpit.

Using that same reasoning, since I have those items I mentioned, they don't need to be rendered either. Yank out the 3d models of the control column, throttles, prop pitch levers, rudder pedals.

The reason for body rendering is the same for rendering the control column etc. They are in a virtual world on a view screen we are looking at. If we had access to a full size sim-pit cockpit to sit in with a huge projector to encase us, then we could switch off the cockpit rendering because we would have no use for it - real physical objects would replace them. But very few people posess such a setup.

the reason cockpits are modeled is because we don't have real historically accurate ww2 cockpit replicas to sit in at our computer monitors, but we do have real ww2 replica body parts :)

by all means feel free to but yourself a pair of authenric flight gloves, jacket, etc to help your "immersion" if you feel it necessary

whatever the case, they will eventually be modeled, I just hope I can turn it off

The body parts, and the controllers we have, are not in the correct position. I have to significantly look away from my view screen in order to see myself interacting with the controllers (and even then it is hard to see due to the vast illumination difference). But my monitor is rather large (if I sit close to it); and with headtracking, it's a bit like wearing a VR display - except when I look down to my legs I am a ghost, and controls are moving on their own.

In the past when I have done sim-racing, I have been able to put the steering wheel on the desk in front of the monitor in such a way that it merges with the virtual cockpit. I would then, obviously, disable the rendering of the in-game wheel as it serves no purpose at all and I would just be seeing double.

I find wearing far-too-hot gloves (and purchasing them to begin with) and the other things you suggested to be a lot of hassle as well as doing nothing to correct the missing pieces in the cockpit.

I understand what you are saying if you see the aircraft as something to look at, as if admiring a plastic scale model kit. I see it as that, sometimes, but when flying, I would expect that a pilot would not find that they looked transparent, and neither do I want to experience that. Part of the cockpit is missing.

EDIT: I am sure they will allow people to turn it off. It has almost always been the case in the past. Operation Flashpoint, Armed Assault, and Armed Assault 2 did not allow making anything transparent, but I have yet to hear of a flight sim that did not allow it. BlackShark allows it, for example.

I do see it as a model (although not plastic) but beyond that I like to see the mechanisms of all cockpit parts as well as use the markings as you actually would to make sure they are set in the correct position. Also to make sure my gaming components are working, centered, etc. If I give a little rudder I want to be able to look down at the cockpit pedals to make sure they are corresponding, same with throttle, supercharger, etc. Cockpits are so cramped even when operating these components in real life you sometimes have to move your arm or eyeball around your own bodyparts or peak back to double check you are where you want to be, in a scale modeled cockpit with pilot your not going to see much more than heavily clothed knees, hands and elbows, even the stick is mostly burried in your crotch [no homo]. If you use the cockpit like it's a real cockpit it can severely hamper gameplay to have your vision be at the mercy of virtual pilot animations

I understand completely and with all your reasons and preferences, and consider them valid concerns. In your rudder pedal example, I do not think it would be any difference if you had the body rendered as well - assuming it moved to push the rudder pedals. The knees would move up and down as they bend or straighten out when pushing pedals, and the feet themselves would often also be clearly visible in the frame of the pedals. The control column position would be easier to judge because we get additional reference points (its position compared to the legs of the pilot).

Not many things can be placed in such a way as to make them completely obscured by the pilot, because the pilot had almost no room to move anything in reality either. Strapped tight in a bucket seat, feet attached to pedals, not much room.

The G940 has a hand sensor.. I wish that could be used with animation. I.e. take my hand off the stick and it is fully visible in the cockpit :)

Oleg does not consider it important (even if I do) and will not bother with it because of the work it would take from the team to do it 'well'. I read this on the forums before. But it is possible, and if it is possible, it must come in a simulator as significant as this sooner or later. Big opportunity for third party devs.

EDIT (Damnit, I can't stay away from the edit button lately).

I am sure there are a bit of all kinds of motivations working together. For everyone's benefit :). Here's a guess-list:

• Promotion & Hype (inexpensive way of doing it, except time - people read it and repost on news sites and forums. And we like this better than some unreal trailer close to release)
• Taking the pulse of the community (seeing what they talk about)
• Constructive feedback on WIP presented (for improvement/correct inaccuracies if present - tough crowd here)
• Collecting wishes and good ideas for delivering a better Storm of War (everyone wins)
• Genuine gratitude to community and desire to treat them well (including not promising stuff that won't be there)
• Explaining why things are, or cannot be, a certain way (that is something you almost never see from others - great public relations)
• Maintaining contact can help in recruiting general help from the community

There's so many benefits to this. In fact, I am surprised that developers don't do this as much elsewhere. Maybe the norm is to be bound by contract to silence and let some PR department supply those orchestrated trailers..

If I was Oleg, I think.. the worst thing about this is the language barrier. Imagine for any of you here that you had to communicate in something almost completely foreign to you at first (maybe Chinese? French/German? For those who are neither). Something we did maybe not even read in school. I had it since I was 10 to 18, and the standard was quite high.

Спасибо, Олег.

No intent to continue the debate, but I would like to comment shortly in order to straighten something up. The law that forbids the swastika in Germany (and symbols of other "hate inciting organisations") was invented by the allied british american occupation powers, not the German government. Americans who criticize a so called "lack of freedom of expression" in this matters should be reminded of this. ;-)

Understandably so given the political environment in Germany in the mid/late 40s but German politicians couldn't have changed this sometime in the last 50-60 years? To go further, to me there is a difference between allowing it in public rallies and allowing it in a game.
________
Uggs

Changing the law to allow Swastikas again would probably have been regarded as a sign of Nazis gaining power back in Germany, so it would make sense for the German goverment to retain this law.

Still, its an old law now and could do with some rethinking.

Back on topic...

how 'bout this idea?
 

Hey Oleg I just had a thought. Within the sim, will engaged dogfight opponents be seen to be looking at one another (as the angles allow)? It might be cool.
Flyby out

Questions to Oleg:

1. You have told us already that skins will be complex - including a weathered texture that changes over time. Will we be able to edit the weathered textures (to make our own weatherd textures)? Or will all planes of one type weather the same?

2. We have seen photos from your studio showing people involved in the making of towns. I want to know what percentage of towns will be hand made, and how much/many will be automatically generated (Dgen)? I can imagine that a lot of the buildings in London need to be individually placed, but will that also happen for Dover (for example)?



...and guys: please stop the sawatika questions, this isn't the place. Do you really think Oleg has the time to read things that have been discussed a million times before? One question on markings is OK, and we can all wait for an answer. There's no reason to hijack the thread. It is wasting Oleg's time, and will not encourage him to spend more time here.

Interesting idea, a lot of modern games have a feature like this where the heads of characters and NPCs will turn to look at the nearest feature of interest (as defined by a simple algorithim and limited to reasonable angles relative to the character/NPCs body).

It would certainly look very cool. For example seeing pilots "looking" at obstacles and other planes as they taxied before taking off, or looking across at you wingman as you flew and seeing him look back, or coolest of all, seeing an enemy pilot tracking you as your plane flashed past theirs.

The intergration of something like this would be simple, and would definitely give an impression that the pilots were living, thinking, moving people, rather than manequins sat in the cockpit of a plane that is being flown by an AI computer or a person sat at a remote computer terminal.

Seems cool! Also would be nice to have hand signals amd insults, so when you are looking the pilot face of the enemy fighter, you can show him the finger. Don't know if the finger was used on the time! :D.

Just joking, still it's a nice idea.

We have that in IL-2 already.

From Wiki:
So yeah, the finger was around at the time :mrgreen:

However, I don't think we'd see a British and a German guy exchanging fingers just like that in mid-1940.

But maybe some respectful gestures (such as a salute) could come in handy.

I think it's not something hard to implement, anyway. For instance, we have this sort of stuff in Rise of Flight already, so why not? :-P

(It seems that other games are becoming an excuse for us to ask for minor stuff that add for immersion. Well, we'd actually ask for it sooner or later, anyway :mrgreen:)

BBC: Shooting the War
 

I think you guys in OMG will find that interesting. A new BBC series
featuring b&w and color shootings made by home movie makers.

BBC: Shooting the War
Rls Date: 21 January 2010 Air Date:20 January 2010
How WW2 was documented by home movie makers.
Some screenshots (sorry for a big post):

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4555/shot0002cl.jpg

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1201/shot0003n.jpg

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1789/shot0005j.jpg

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4842/shot0007e.jpg

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8132/shot0008q.jpg

PS: google Shooting.The.War.S01E01

I've been away from IL2 for too long. I need to rectify that one day.
Meanwhile, hey Oleg how about a visual demo of (say)trees rendered first under DX9c, then DX10, then DX11? I'm hoping this is a request that's simple to grant. Of course I'm assuming it's already in the code for SoW_Bob.
Flyby out

Love the update- the physics of the aerials looks astonishing- well done.
Will details like this be able to be turned off for lower spec systems?
Are they tightly integrated into the physics of game and have an effect on the function of the object? (An example might be a bomb crater causes a wheel strut to snap making the vehicle get stuck)
Are all such details coded to run through the CPU or are they offloaded to the GPU, using physix (or similar for other non-invidia cards)?

I was gobsmacked when i first saw the layers of detail in Il2- i am getting a sense from the development updates you've posted so far that the layers in this may be similar to taking the red pill in the Matrix!!!!

+1 for the trees!

I would also like to see the armoured car or one of the AAA guns fire off a round! Maybe too early for that?

correct! and eeuu kill so many black people.
but you must remain silent about red star. Oleg is from russia.;)


whatever, in other flight sims are not too the nazi esvastic.
MCFS3
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/comb...2_001_640w.jpg
IL2
http://recursos.fotocajon.com/fotos/...ize_248674.jpg
wings of prey? yes have?
http://pic.leech.it/i/7e6b9/e3bb5d0e4cd3.jpg




Maybe in the final release will be. Or some fanatic will do a mod

Will 3rd party be able to create "cockpits" for vehicules/trains/etc... So that they could eventually be controlled by players.

After reading more of these post I see that you plan on just that.... GREAT !!!!

Oleg, a question I think never quested:
Will in SOW be drastic disadvantage of Messerschmitt Bf 109 in right-turns modelled in FM?

Oleg, you say the AI will be more human; but will they be right or left handed? I say this, because it is a tendency for (IIRC) right-handed people to tend to look over the left shoulder, and the opposite for left-handed people. Consequently, seeing as though the majority of people are right-handed, some pilots chose to come in close to some enemy planes slightly to the right side, so that if the enemy pilot looked behind him , he wouldn't see the attacking A/C. It worked quite successfully in some cases, depending on the attacking planes position. I'd love to see this modelled in SoW :P

I'd like my pilot's head position and orientation in external views to be linked to where I'm looking at in the cockpit. So if I'm using a 6DOF head tracking system, someone looking at me from an external view, eg. my wingman, would see all my movements. Ability to make hand signals would be great too.

You have to learn how to drive a locomotive then ;) don't expect it would be easy.

Anyone has some solid data on this? It seems to be a constant that most allied fighter pilots considered it a boast, but just in case turned right when possible.

Post-war flight tests confirmed or denied the myth?

I suspect that most single-prop planes will turn better one way than the other, but can't see any particular reason why it should be more 'drastic' in a Bf-109 than in any other type. If the general torque, gyroscopic and p-effects are modelled correctly, there should be no reason to treat the 109 as a special case without strong evidence.

I try never to turn right but it all has to do wit torque. Don't all single engine aircraft have propellers? Why is it such a big deal with a 109. I would think a small plane like a Yak 3 would also be effected.

I was thinking along those exact lines! Too bad I watered it down. But you said precisely what I was originally thinking. (sometimes my mind-melding technique has a delayed reaction :D ***Send me all your money!!!***)

But turning left I find I can out turn a P-40 in an F4 if I'm careful

I wouldn't call it solid data, but the following may be of interest, from here: http://www.pilotfriend.com/flight_re...reports/33.htm

W.

Interesting link, Winger.

Note that this refers to high-speed turns, rather than to a general characteristic of the Bf-109. I'd say we need to see how the sim models aircraft behaviour in general before we start asking for any specific 'fixes'. As I suggested earlier, a good physics/flight model should be able to reproduce this based on the known attributes of the aircraft, rather than needing 'tuning' to match test reports. If it doesn't, then maybe adjustment might be necessary.

I notice your link also refers to the heaviness of the 109 elevator at speed, and the consequences of adjusting trim. It looks like Oleg got this about right in IL-2....

I'm most interested in the aileron snatching with asymmetric slat deployment - in fact, with IL2, I've never been able to get the slats on the 109 to deploy asymmetrically, don't know whether it's a flight model shortcoming or if the slats are there for show only.

I know that I've never experienced uncommanded roll in the 109, except beyond critical AoA.

W.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that IL2 had a numerical flight model rather than one which was calculated (like X-plane). I'd be interested to know how the flight model actually works and if this will change in SoW.

W.

That wee car would certainly cut time off my commute...
Very shoddy maintenance on the Heinkel...
You'd better put a lighthouse in to warn ships about the lighthouse.
As far as a release date goes, I absolutely refuse to wait any longer, and am henceforth withholding stool.

You are right. Anyway most people here understand that we are doing _something_ again. And it is really hard work to get the world class sim again, speaking about small niche of customers were we are...

PS. On my site I posted review of recommended camera for you. It is really good camera in its class. I would say that it is best currently in its class and cost.
PS2 And I would enjoy of you pictures, if you will send them me sometime :) The pictures, that you posted there unfinished is really cool. My wife like it very much as well.

I think any that allow you monitor and video card.

1. I think user will have complete access to the skins... Because if user will make new skin and have no access to the weathering part of skins then the finakl will looks incorrect. Simple logic. :)

2. Most is auto (defined by code and texture). Some places are manual, say like time square, or Queen's(king's) palace square, etc.... Also anyway we need some time to change some places that to make it looking better and more different after automatic placement. And, anyway such technology allow us to save a lot of time working over map.... if to put everything manually then we will need some small separate team for this purpose...

There is difference in Il-2 as well.
But it isn't drastic... Really any plane that has one direction of prop rotation would have different behaviour in right or left turns. In real aircraft you will notice it more by the feel.... that isn't present flying computer sim, even this is modelled. By other words this is less noticibale in sim than your feelin real aircraft.

It is in tools/viewer for the tunings. Real picture in final will be even better.

We using the code of trees that we bought from third party. Currently there is just couple of trees type. They are in development. That speed up he development we decided to use not our own code in some of the parts. It seems that some parts is cheaper to buy and use than to develope ourselves like in the past... in the past we were developng everything ourselves.

in DX10 and 11 they will looks similar. DX11 will give advantage in other items. Can't them name all at the moment.

Oleg, I have no doubt you and your team will provide an amazing sim that defines the genre.

Please take the time to create something that we can instantly recognise as worthy of the Maddox name.

:)

My questions got lost behind the swastica debate so i have bumped it.

1. Online protocol is different to Il-2 code. Dedicaded server is also different. There are new solutions tha I would tell now for all. The limit of players amount is defined only by traffic. We will see how many will be ossible to open (limit) later. But probably 128 will be in intial release (with some limit of trafer data such as skins, that are large, etc).

2. See item 1.

3. Somthing will be possible from the beginning. More - later by third party. We have completely new concept for online gameplay ion the flight sim market.

Thank you for the trust.

Uhmmm, interesting. This would bring for me an small request/wish.

It would be ver usefull if you add a pdf document stablishing recomendations for number of players, bandwidth and transfer limitation such skins, missions, pilot faces, and so on. I think it would be useful for virtual squadron for setting multiplayer options according to the number of people and connections presents, and know if they can use download skins, or not, the same with the mission itself and so on.
Anyway, its something very low on the priority.

Thanks for listening to all of us, and sharing all this update and development stages.

Oleg, did you see my question? :

Oleg, you say the AI will be more human; but will they be right or left handed? I say this, because it is a tendency for (IIRC) right-handed people to tend to look over the left shoulder, and the opposite for left-handed people. Consequently, seeing as though the majority of people are right-handed, some pilots chose to come in close to some enemy planes slightly to the right side, so that if the enemy pilot looked behind him , he wouldn't see the attacking A/C. It worked quite successfully in some cases, depending on the attacking planes position. I'd love to see this modelled in SoW :P

Is this actually based on a real life study?
I only ask as I am ambidextrous.;)

I wish I knew. I have read it before though; and when I did, realised it was true! as I am right handed.

Basically, in Derek Robinsons Piece of Cake, there is a point in the novel when the squadron assembles for a photo-shoot. As the camera is aobut to go off, a policeman fires a gun behind them and they all turn to look. The photograhper, purposely, captures the shot at this time. When viewing the photo, the pilots see that most of them (bar a few) looked over their left shoulder, and those that didn't were left-handed. ;) I'd be interested though if this was true, but I have no doubt that such knowledge existed at the time, and so was put to good use ;)

Since 3D TVs are released from Samsung and Panasonic, is it possible to play SOW in 3D with these TVs? Is it supported any idea?

Would this be SpeedTree? Some pretty impressive stuff can be done with this from what I've seen!
________
LovelyWendie

Yes, their basic code and our modifications. We need to make more large distance of view with the high quality using this code.

It will be depending of graphics card - we don't need to do anything special for this purpose really... Any 3D game could be viewed with 3D glasses if the video card split process of 3D render for both eyes separatelly.

No. equal. more effect in "behaviour" would have torgue really, comparing with this... :)
And this would be in counterpart with the some of tacticks in attacks of bombers really... :)
maybe it is in mind of some people, but in real life - this would play real role probably for foil fencer or epee fencer :)

As for me - right or left - doesn't mater... I was born with left... then in kindergarden - oriented on the right hand (so stupid situation was).... and now I can use both almost similar and completely similar say for shooting...

Thank you, for taking the time to answer all our questions!

I love all the little details you implemented coming together to something even better than most of us are expecting.


I'd just like to see the big smile on your face in these "Of course I know, but I won't tell you now"-moments ;)