Awsome video lutiher and screens.
Great works guys love it all the way, and if you tend to leak more videos please do so with the sound :D:D i can't wait to hear the engine roar as well , anyway Good luck this project looks great.

S!

Baron, not an e-peen contest here, just expressing my opinion on the shake ;) And no-one needs to fly a Spitfire or Bf109 to achieve same results, a plane is a plane. Sure weight and speed plays a role, but I think you know what I mean. I got your point and enjoyed the video to the full, finally some moving gfx from SoW. It is just that so much was "camera based" in IL2 and was plaing wrong, like distorted POV within less than 1m etc. Camera is not human eye combined with brains that "fix" the view etc. So I really hope SoW has learned from this and does not make "one eye open 50mm lens thing" again and again ;)

So to please you all and brown nosey, with extreme sarcasm..Yeah oh I came squirted my pants ;) :D In reality: damn nice video. Happy?

Luthier,

In the video I can't see the propeller, is it a WIP issue or just the resolution of the movie?

Bye,
Insuber

You don't really see the prop in real life, only on film video etc.

great video with natural lighting , it's just a beautiful video 720p and should be yet better in game of course !!!

Nice video, but the instrument panel should look darker and less used : such aircrafts were at that time new.

Don't know mate ... when I flew in turboprop commercial planes, the propeller was visible. And in small general aviation planes too, if I remember well. And at Duxford last summer too. And IL2 shows the propeller in flight as well.

Luthier ?

I meant around 10ft or less behind it in the pit you are aware of it but don't notice it if you know what I mean:)

Its probably the poor resolution in the Spit vid.

Understood :D

Ins

I don't know if it's the final version, but in this case the radio room looks flat, the textures must be improved IMHO. Look at the struts on the right for instance.

Ins

I have just come from the Silent Hunter 5 forums.
It is all doom and gloom there. Most people are very unhappy about the
information and screenshots released.
It is very refreshing to see that over here SoW is not disappointing anyone
and continues to exceed expectations so well. Top job 1C!

Or it's just because the model doesn't have a propellor yet? Remember when Oleg stated about the Ju 87 pictures that spinning propellors don't look good enough for showing in videos so far. Think simple, guys.
Why does the plane buffeting so much inflight? Because the programmers wanted it to do so at the moment, perhaps to demonstrate that buffeting is working well. It isn't yet a alpha version, so calm down. We shouldn't read too much into it before anybody official tells us why it is like it is.

TFTU! Relocation as a surprise - that normally does not sound good - or is it to a larger office?

:)

Dont get me wrong, i relize "critizism" is essential to get the best game possible.

I just think there is a place and time for everything and this threadh is the place for oooooh and ahhhs only :) (kidding)

Finally seeing vids is a major leap towards getting this game up and running.


Its getting closer, fast. ;)

i knew it would be great, i know it will be great, it is great already
All my support goes to the whole team: Thanks

Ask a mod to confirm ips noob ..... I don't alias ..... ever.

Fantastic video! Headshaking, reflections, shadows and all looks very good. How about similar video from Messerschmitt cockpit next? :)

Very impressive work SoW team!!!

Awesome video. It must be apparent to everyone who watches this clip that SOW is going to be a masterpiece.

Especially liked the dynamic shadows within the cockpit, the pilot's head inertia movement within the cockpit, the clouds, and the whitecaps on ocean below.

I think Oleg/1C have captured the sea extremely well - the defined waves around the suns reflection, blending with less defined blue and white caps at other angles is cunningly done - and the blend is nicely maintained durnig the change of altitude/dive at the end of the video.

Can't wait for more

Of course, compromises must always be made in producing a workable 3d environment that can be reproduced on a home PC with decent frame rates and which reproduces the sensation of 'being there' with the simple tools of a computer screen and speakers etc. I think the SOW compromises appear extremely well tuned and difficult to detect.

Thank you thank you thank you team!

For the armchair critics I have no sympathy.

Von_Rodg

1C is a huge company, our servers are maintained by a different department within it. The entire 1C Games team, hundreds of people, are moving to a different location piecemeal. So it's all very structured and well though out, it's just I'm not on top of it as much as I should be personally.


Also, I'm very glad to see most of you guys like the Spitfire video. It was actually a real 100% honest leak that we didn't expect. Both me and Oleg felt that it was still not polished enough to be released, and in any case I would have wanted to splice it up with some outside views, fly a little better, etc.

Now I guess we have to do videos more often, because a handful of screenshots just won't be the same anymore...

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything :) . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

What on EARTH are you talking about?

huh? don't know what you're on about mate.

that would be nice! I'd love to FEEL the pre-stall buffets, turbulence and hits.

cheers

yeah, I don't think that should be a problem with us :grin:

Easy on the videos Luthier!
Any more realistic and I will need a pukebag, its like a rolercoaster you know.

Regards

Viking

We shouldn't be negative after seen this (DX9 , right Luthier?) video.
With such a pre-beta video, I'm not afraid at all for the final product.

And yes, Luthier we need more videos, so we can comment on them and show any objections we have (always constructively and precisely: not just comments like "it sux"). Though this can happen during beta-phase, but you know your time schedule and the way you're gonna work better than us ;)

Anyway, the thing is that this video is not IL-2. It is definitely something much better. And this is a good step towards getting a great sim!

yes please!!!:D

Hehe Zaelu your points from 2 to 4 are easily explained by the point 1... :D:D:D

Gimme a break , one of the most disrespectful posts i've read in quite a while. You assume to f*king much tech out of a video you know nothing about.. this will be the real deal compared to the arcade shooters out there, sorry you can't have everything.. but its still a game in some sort.. otherwise just go drive a real damn spitfire or build your own game..water / clouds look like IL2? ye right and i am Arnold Schwarzenegger..

Keep it up Oleg , the team and let us hear the engine roars next time ;)

insults dont help either. best watch what you type.

You guys only talk about remove it, don't put it and etc.

Think big, this is a free world - make it switcheable, then everyone's happy.

And, guys, for heaven's sake, stop thinking you know more about flying than the devs do. I don't remember where I saw it, but if I remember correctly, Oleg was (is?) a pilot himself, so I'm pretty sure he knows how does it work.

The Storm of War x Wings of Prey debate is pointless. Two different approaches, with different public as well. While one tries to make graphics look only realistic, without making it too fancy, the other introduce a rather darker atmosphere, that gives a sort of dramatic feeling to it, and calls for more action. Would be interest to have both as an option, though.

However, I'm not sure if it fits Maddox Games' general idea for Storm of War to have unrealistic eye-candies just because they give a nice movie-style feeling to the whole thing.

I won't go any further because this is a thread dedicated to the updates, and not whining and another WoP debate which will end with WoP guys defending it blindly and the rest flaming it completely.

Also, people like to point to the devs that 2+2=4 and etc. without even reading the Q&A on the requests thread. Most things people complain and ask about have been explained more than a hundred times by the poor developers. They know how it should look, trust me.

Got a bit immersed in the rant and forgot to comment on the update!

Ilya, the screenshots are amazing. Nice look from the BR.20 cockpit. The Lorenz looks very nice (curiously, it's different than Team Daidalos one for Il-2). The detail on ships sometimes make me wonder if this is a new Silent Hunter or a flight simulator. Truly amazing. The water looks very nice. Now where's my life-jacket?

Now Ilya, let's admit it: MuxaHuk totally stole your thunder this time. And, hell, he should do it more often!

Unpolished or anything you want to call it, that's still a piece of art! Very pleasant sensation of being in a smooth level flight... and then jumping to a hardcore roller-coaster. Really, really nice. I can't get tired of seeing that Spitfire cockpit. Absolutely perfect.

And yes, unfortunately (:mrgreen:), you'll probably have to feed us with some moving action more often

Oh... my exprimation was a bit out of... focus :D.

I was saying that it was not a surprise that the shadows were moving. Not that I didn't see them moving. :lol:

Like the movie said to us: "Hey look... moving shadows!"
And I go: "Oh nice... but I didn't think they were just painted on in the screenshots"

Sorry again for the confusing exprimation.

@virre89

I am not disrespectful at all... you are just too touchy. I don't know if you are part of the Maddox team but I'd expect one of the team members to be not too pleased with my comments and I wish my words will be taken just as a critique from a singular point of view... my own. If it helps pointing some areas of things that should be in focus for development updates, improvements or final release... I'd be happy it helped. But if you are not part of the team... then your reaction is just "fanboyism" and I think is very dangerous for a team to listen only praises.

Quite frankly, I don't see a problem with the water in this game. From the air it looks just fine. Again, there is an issue of visual range. In SH the water is nice, but I noticed in their videos that the waves start to repeat and form a "quilt" pattern after less than a mile. This is fine if the camera is at the surface, which is 99% of the time in SH.

A flight sim has to render water waves which should not have a visible pattern for maybe 10 miles at least. So, in the same way that ground textures will not appear in a flight sim the way they do in a FPS, so too will the water.

The visual representation of the shaking is maybe much. As has been said, there is a dampening effect because of our biology. It should be felt, not seen, but that is impossible to do for a computer game.

My suggestion, would be to have shaking of loose items (like the canopy pull handle) while dampening the camera vibrations.

Save for the vibrations, I would say the movement of the head was very realistic. There's obviously compression into the seat from G's and it goes side to side while making hard banks. Very nice.

However, I noticed a bug with your gunsight. It seems to show a hard horizon and brown color above.

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/a...pitfireavi.jpg

I would imagine that because of this the gunsight is more than just a texture. So, will it be refracting light?

The clouds look good. I would like to know of there will be a greater variety of shapes besides the "cotton balls" that show up after a rainy day. Will there be changes in thickness (up and down)? Will there be a possibility of seeing a towering cumulonimbus maturing into the anvil shape? Will there be multiple layers? Will high altitude clouds also change, or are they bound with the map as in Il-2?

Oh no Here comes a fanboy.
I second Zealu's points.
Seeing that video, i know it is beta, but anyone but fanboy can see and speak what doesn't look right.
Self shadow is gorgeous and poly count is impressive but cloud and water is that of il-2.
How about coop with gaijin entertainment guys.(kidding, that would be impossible)
Their flight game is no where close to il-2 in sim aspect but did outstanding job in graphic, atmosphere, and clouds. (Behold overcast clouds in wop)
I know you're busy, but I appreciate you taking the time to play WoP and find what is missing in il-2 and BOB beta video.
Writing it on phone so plz bear my spells.

Not really a Dr. Who fan, but this is a really well written episode that should explain... I think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xasBd...eature=related

He he, someone will have a tough monday at work ;) It felt a bit weird getting a video that we have all longed for on page two of an update thread ;)

[QUOTE=Romanator21;138939]

....

The visual representation of the shaking is maybe much. As has been said, there is a dampening effect because of our biology. It should be felt, not seen, but that is impossible to do for a computer game. ....


....However, I noticed a bug with your gunsight. It seems to show a hard horizon and brown color above.

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/a...pitfireavi.jpg

QUOTE]

I think Ilya maybe forgot that Spitfires don't have combat flaps, and they got stuck..it looks like the sort of buffetting you get with (stuck) full flaps to me.

The gunsight is slightly shaded/tinted I think, or polarized maybe (I know some aircraft in WWII had polarized gunsights) - so the sky can look darker through them, and reflections are cut from the shine on the sea.

Great video 1C!!!!! We want more :-)

I think the apparent 'flatness' is due mainly to the low light levels - ie it's dark. If you look at the inner rings of the various dials you can clearly see shadows on the right hand side.

You really shouldn't act like some kind of expert when you obviously don't know your subject matter. The reflector sight optics are designed to stay put while your head shakes and moves about. Watch this demonstration on youtube if you need proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXsVg8F91t8

I think there are more constructive ways of making your point without resorting to that kind of blunt attack packed full of negativity. That video was a materpiece and it isn't even finished yet. There's just no pleasing some folk.:roll:

And no, I'm no fanboy...just someone who believes in giving credit where credit is due.

Yeah, Zaelu definitely got his looong analysis of a reflector gunsight dead wrong. And the thing about the shadows, but he went back on that, it seems. But he's not short on self-confidence when it comes to "giving the team advice" so that's excellent! :-)

This one is kind of silly so I felt the need to crawl out of hiding and respond.

I don´t know which video you watched, but the one I saw -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQbCI...layer_embedded <- has moving dynamic shadows.

For the ´pit shaking: that´s overthinking it. I hear the same argument from people who want to get rid of the headbob in Arma2, and it´s silly. It´s an atmospheric that´s supposed to convey the fact that you´re flying a 1200 hp monster of a plane, and do that so impressively that you forget that you´re actually sitting nice and comfy in front of a computer.
The only argument I´d count is that people can get sick from it, so having this scaleable would be sensible. Otherwise, this state of the art, and I can appreciate the effort put into this.

Other people have mentioned the collimator sight before, so I won´t go into that. It´s been a functional feature in IL-2 too, so if one has played that they should be familiar with it.

For the clouds, I suggest you go back to the video and watch the Video in HD. At around 0:20 you can see the clouds coming into view on the left: notice the soft gradient of colour, as well as how the light plays around the edges. Also, dynamic shadows cast by the clouds onto the sea surface.
At 1:11 you can briefly see the brightly lit trim around the clouds edges where the sun his shining down between them. The glare on the sea surface is also (it seems) shaped by the clouds above it.

All in all, I´m really impressed by this video, despite the lack of sound and its shortness. Can´t wait to see how everything looks when it has come together: 2009 was a year of gaming disappointments for me, so SoW can only make it better. 8)

Cheers

<<The gunsight is slightly shaded/tinted I think, or polarized maybe (I know some aircraft in WWII had polarized gunsights) - so the sky can look darker through them, and reflections are cut from the shine on the sea.>>

Maybe, but the effect flickers on and off, which says to me it's a bug. It's also interesting that clouds disappear under the gun-sight.

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-01-51-00.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-01-52-00.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-01-53-00.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-01-54-01.jpg

And here is the flicker:

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-03-14-11.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-03-15-11.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-03-16-11.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-03-17-11.jpg

Comon guys what `s the prob??? It is still in development when it`s relesed and it has some bugs start to complain not now, or are you complaining about your unborn child "I don`t like his feet, we will make a new one ..."

Thanks for the beautiful video, my excitement levels have now reached critical.

I do hope Muxahuk isn't going to be in trouble on Monday morning, he's now a favourite amongst fans ;)

Indeed :D

Funny you say that, maybe check my history of posts and you'll find out i am quite the opposite. Stop acting like a tech expert instead and get a life. Just because i dont nitpick a video doesn't mean i don't care for details or realism or i wouldn't even be here in the first place. Besides, try show some constructive criticism when you've a case instead.

People need to calm down...... constructive criticism is good. Being a fanbois contributes nothing to the game. Zaelu expressed points made by many (plus English is not his native language)

The shaking is too much .... at least 3 real pilots have pointed that out. Lets fix and move on.

For the rest .... yeah nice vid .... but not mind blowing .... even Luthier said that .... chill out .... LOOOOOONG way to go still.

This made me smile coming from you. ;)

Cheap shot all you like...... I know I have brought about positive change in this sim. ;)

Hey everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I have my pilots licences (though it has been a few years since I flew last) and in my opinion the head shake is probably under modeled if anything.

Heres a small video from a head cam in a light plane doing aerobatics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKMIP2GuP7Q

:lol:

Oh, sorry, you weren't joking? What positive change is that, then?

Anyway, awesome update and video...still a bit rough around the edges, don't think anyone could deny that.

I think that zaelu made some good points, don't think the language barrier helps, everyone jumping at him because they thought he said that there were no dynamic shadows, when all he meant was that already knew they were in the game so he didn't find it as surprising and jaw-dropping as a lot of people seem to.

Opinion has nothing to do with facts,

ultralight weight under 1000lbs
Spitfire weight 6500lbs

In your mind/opinion they are the same/comparable ..... physics says different. Lets let even talk about structural rigidity....
Headshake is wrong in that vid .... not even close to realistic ...... defending it merely shows the ignorance of posters.

But not as much as me... ;)

Protos, It has nothing to do with the mass of the aircraft. The head shake modeled simuates the movement of the pilots head reacting to the movements of the aircraft.

And except within the members of this forum there is a limits to the mass of a human head and in general it is several orders of magnitude smaller than the weight of the aircraft be it 1000lbs or 6500lbs.

Yes Protos, I believe the same laws of physics should be used to simulate the movement of a pilots head in what ever aircraft they are flying. Please check with you high school physics teacher and get back to me on that one.

That is an opinion of yours I disagree with it it is my right :)


I could not have put it better myself ;)

maybe .... but I doubt it ;)

@skoshi ...... if you think a WWII fighter shakes like an ultralight ....... no helping you and your understanding of flight. Time to brush up on your 'licenses' ......

He is "Protos"... I'm "Proton". :)

Protos, I'm not sure what its like in your part of the world, but to fly an aircraft in Australia you need your Pilots Licence (Private in my case), Your Flight Radio Operator Licence plus your type endorsements and ratings. So the plural is correct. In the Queens English, it's spelt 'Licence'. 'License' has a different meaning. Look it up.

I do not need any help with my understanding of flight thank you. For my use it is sufficient. (Though I am always willing listen to those with superior understanding than myself)

I do suggest you do some brushing up on your physics and try to understand what they are trying to model. Your talk of vibration is not related to the effect of being simulated (as far as I can tell)

Do 1200HP V12 aero engine vibrate? Yes they do. The Merlin has a reputation of being a snarling beast of an engine. (no standing 50p coins of an ildling Merlin!) I'm sure it's german counterparts had similar characteristics

My Bad, Sorry!

Exactly, if I was to speak my words (even with my bad accent :) ) and not write them everyone would had understood from my "tone" what I was meaning.

For people that say that I don't know what the reflex visor work... well is quite possible, I don't work in that area but I knew what is doing as I saw it in many movies on the net how the cross-hair stays fixed while camera is moving and I also play DCS Black Shark that has a better representation of the reflex gun-sight in its HUD and has native 6DoF so you can see it working.

@Skoshi Tiger and others that find the movie from SoW representing good or insufficient head shake I want to tell you this.

An honest question and not an "implying" one: Did you ever flew in a plane having attached to your head a camera? Did you watch the video afterwards and have a feeling that you didn't actually "experience" that tremor and shaking?

What I am saying is the shaking in that movie is just for "cinematic" effect and is not depicting reality... you know... simulation. If the aircraft is shaking violently in bad weather we notice it... we even "see" it if we want to check it out but, when we work in those conditions our eyes, brain and mind filter it out. When you add it as a "special effect" you cannot filter it out and it becomes a hinder to the working and is not a good simulation to aggravate the bad environment.

Is like when you go to a 3D movie and you see objects in 3D but then the "cineast" wanted to make an emphasis on some plan of attention and he made one object in middle plan of the image clear and one object closer to the viewer in blur like out of focus. Now, as long as you go with story you will not notice it... you will even more dive into the action but, if you observe the out of focus object and look at it the spell is broken, your mind will try to focus it and then observe it can't do it and then will understand is just a trick.

The same is with this shaking effect, as long as you go with the cinematic effect is nice... but as soon as you try to actually make a dogfight in that shaking plane you will see it's unrealistic and hindering and you will see that in effect you are still, the gun-sight is still in respect to your movements but the cockpit is wobbling around like crazy... the spell is broken.

I sure hope this effect can be toggled or adjustable in final release so everyone would be happy... I will use it if I make a movie though :) .

I had filmed a bit with a helmet mounted camera and I noticed what I was saying above many times. The movie is shaking like crazy but I cannot remember all that movement. The movement comes from vibrations but also from attention shifting which cannot be (yet) represented in games, maybe some neat depth of field trick that shifts via input from your eyes will do it in 20 years from now. In the little movie bellow you will see that while I ride the bike the camera tremors like hell (I don't recall that tremor) and while flying the motodelta the movie is pretty still, just movements from attention shifting and little actual shaking of the wing that do appear like in the movies, you are still and the plane itself moves but, are not how they are perceived in real time.

Here is the little movie. I was trying to keep my head very still and also the motodelta is a great steady-cam platform but, it still moves differently that I perceived it. And the movie has the worst shaking parts cut out for obvious reasons :) .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yNafzMSqj8

Please note that I don't say I am some sort of an expert giving lessons just making some observations of my own... if they are right maybe they help. And sorry if my post is too long.

Modeling of head shake is harder to do than it may look. You can't simply shake camera in the same way as real head is shaken, because then you will get a feeling that it shakes too much. It will be so, because in reality eyes can compensate for the movement of head, but in game they can't as we don't move of course and see only shaking picture. The simple example is the book reading in the car. Despite you can still read it while car is moving, you won't be able to read it in the video, if it has been filmed by high speed high resolution camera attached to your head.

Head shake is almost always lowered down in sims for simulation of eyes compensation and sake of playability. I would say, we should not be concerned about it too much until we get a chance to test it in game. Videos do not depict such things well.

Great video Zaelu That would have been fun to make.

No I haven't flown with a camera mounted on my head, but I do understand that the brain is good at filtering out the distractions like head shake, so that in most circumstances you do not notice it.

Until you try to do something like line up the sights of your fighter and that when it does become very important and noticable. ( Post and ring sights were worse but the reflector sights did have some leeway)

One of the concerns I have is that gamers will go into simulated aircombat and perform all sorts of combat manuvers taking shots at the edge of the envelope when in real life they would not be able to keep their sights on-target. The head shake is one of those methods to simulate the difficulties involved.

And in my opinion I don't think they did too bad a job in the posted video.

Cheers!
My wife has just told me I'm spending too long on the computer :(

I'm not an expert in real flying, but I think that the shaking we saw in the video was caused because of change of flaps and hard stick movements· maybe in connection with some strong wind.

Anyway, Luthier can explain better as he was the one flying in this video.
Nevertheless, it's pretty obvious that everything is still under heavy tweaking and that SoW team will need our opinion in such matters mostly during beta period. (That's why, after all, this was not an official video release.)

By the way, please keep in mind that especially about WW2 planes' behaviour, Oleg has excellent feedback by a real pilot who's actually flying these birds.
I know the man and I'm sure we can rest assured that he knows what to tell to Oleg and Team.
I'm also sure that Oleg and Team can implement all good feedback in the game. They can do it better than anyone else in the game industry.

Let's wait a bit for official video releases.

Now that was much more constructive feedback zaelu. I can understand your point of view now.:)

you need to pm oleg and tell him of your vast piloting history. Then he will add you to his other pilots who advise him. Then you can argue with them and show them your data from years of research on shaking of hand made paper planes. :evil:

Even Tree sounded a little excited :)

I think half the problem here is the fact that your responses come over as being arrogant and rude, whether you mean them to or not is another matter.

That video looks great! (Spitfire in the Clouds). Despite the nasty artifacting from youtube compression, it looks absolutely teriffic.

Compare it to the british map of Wings of Prey for example. Look near the end where it manuvers a bit and pulls up towards the water where there's tons of sun reflections done very nicely in the water. It's bright, but it's not exagerrated as the Wings of Prey style was.

The shadows in the cockpit look very sharp and appear to be complete and covering nicely.

The instruments moving looks very nice as well. Note the unstable nature of them when throwing the plane around (I recommend reading how mechanical measurement instruments from the era worked, and still do today to some extent. Fascinatingly simple yet effective).

It all looks very, very real to me. Maybe I should look into getting a second 9800GTX+ to be able to run it (SLI.. poor man's upgrade).

I also think the colour shade of the water as well as sky in particular looks superbly convincing. Water has some foaming on the top of waves (I know 'perfect' water in IL-2 has much of this as well) which gives some references to gauge your speed/angle compared to more flat lifeless waters.

EDIT: Comment on the G-forces and head movement - for being a fixed view mode, I can't imagine what could be done to make it better. I'm not sure in real life how much you can keep your head centered behind the gunsight display, but I doubt you can if you are doing sudden violent moves. The delay/lag simulates a neck pretty well.

+1!

And add to that the engine vibrations at some point. So, exaggerated or not, I'd like to think that we have something nice and original modeled there (turbulence under clouds, engine vibrations, high G stutter), requiring tweaking and fine tuning maybe. Don't look at the finger, look at the moon instead ... :).

Regards,
Insuber

And the mass of the aircraft has a lot to do with the aircrafts movements. The heavier an aircraft, the more energy needed to accelerate it. And I'm perfectly sure that the SoW team is more than aware of all this :)

I don't know about anyone else, but I've already entered drool mode at the prospect of using the night-landing and precision navigation devices.

If SoW comes out in the autumn, I should be fully qualified in flying 1940 bombers by 2012. If that isn't a useful life-skill, what is?

Hi, how are you guys?

Obviously I'm new here, although I've been reading along in this forum already for quite a while now.

Concerning the Spitfire video, I'm really glad that it got leaked, (Don't be to hard on the poor guy, who uploaded it!!!) because, I really wasn't sure anymore whether Storm of War would be as awesome as I would like it to be, especially talking about graphics!

Don't get me wrong, the 3D-Models look amazing, but I had no idea, how the whole thing would look and feel, when everything comes together.

That's why I love the video so much! Dynamic shadowing, nice reflections, beautiful clouds. Even though we don't see no landtextures or an external view of the airplane, I think the game looks really good already! (not just compared to Il-2 but also WoP!)

It would be superkind of you guys, if you could upload a similar video featuring a Luftwaffe fighter. The 109 or the Fw-190 maybe?!

Anyways, thanks for the regular updates! Keep 'em coming!

Rise of Flight already has something similar. When you move your viewpoint away from the cockpit, the cockpit is blurred, when you look into the pit the surroundings are blurred. Just a simple effect made on the basis of the direction of your view.

I am excited, and always have been. I upset people because i ask questions, but I have never said SOW is vapourware or that it wont be good.

Found it. Just add some words and take some out. :D

lol, yeah right, nice editing job. :grin::grin:

I just had too. :D

:D haha LOL

If we can expect more videos, I want to see some of the games effects. I want to see close ups of clouds, engine and damage smoke etc. From this I can see instantly that the plane and cockpit models will be out of this world ;)

S!

Looking for new ideas for your excellent work Philip? ;)

Hand held/head mounted cameras always exaggerate the amount of shaking. I've tried simple mounts on the wing strut and landing gear and it's always a struggle to get steady footage. Hand held cameras aren't much better unless the cameraman is very good at damping the little bumps felt while flying but not necessary 'seen'. The lens in this video isn't very wide angle which helps. Just yesterday I was out flying (ultralight) with a friend who was shooting video from the right seat and while editing that video I had to junk pretty much every clip where he tried to zoom even a little. Even at the widest angle the video was shaky at times. The amount of shake in the video was NOTHING like I experienced while flying. So I don't think that camera footage can be used to determine the amount of shake we should see in flight sims.

Tree I have a quote on my WordPad. Something about eating shorts if this comes out this year? :)

Thank you Oleg fot that great video !!

It gives me hope that Bob will be as magnificent as his successor.

Long live Bob

I m looking forward to another new video.

I think you will find that was a quote i made to my mate Feurfalke, I said I would eat his shorts if SOW came out in 2009, my prediction was March 2010 (which I was flamed for I may add). Feurfalke generously offered to donate a pair of his 'smalls' on the proviso that I filmed the event for youtube. Fortunatley, Oleg decided to hold back the release after it was revealed that Feurfalke only had two pair of pants to his name, one pair having a print of Oleg's face on the back.
Obviously my prediction was still way off, but i may add that I still think we will be very lucky to see the game this year although I truly hope I am wrong, there is clearly a lot of work to do, but the video although leaked was a massive boost. :grin::grin:

You upset people because you play "games" (here on the forum) when your bored...

You upset people because, not everyone has the same sense of humor as you do...

Some people have trouble listening to your "serious observations" because they just spent 5 minutes reading a thread of you "taking the piss" out of a topic and/or a forum member (did i use that English colloquial saying correct?) (did i spell colloquial correct_lol)...

The human head, spine and soft parts makes for a pretty good damper of vibrations and acceleration. There's a certain delay involved, and a lot of damping. I've even heard from someone with some credentials that there's a formula for calculating it.

The worst has to be unanticipated motion. You (subconciously) apply this and that much pull on this and that neck muscle, in order to keep the head straight and level for the current condition. Then an unexpected change, maybe the plane moves down 5cm abruptly due to thatairconditionIonlyknowthenameinswedish, which is like falling on your ass 5cm. That will make you pitch your head up at first and then down as you suddenly come to a stop.

But man, that video looked so awesome. So it's not sanctioned? But it looked so good, it could only do good for hyping the game and goodwill. I love it. Bf 110 C-4, Ju 88 and Ju 87 will be supremely immersively fun!

---

Will you people please take your off-topic arguing about who said what about release dates, eating shorts, how one acts bla bla somewhere else? I don't come into these topics wanting to filter through those things. Just try to keep to the topic of the latest media rather than who said what about vaporvare, attitudes blah blah.

Think more of us need to sign of on this post :)


Btw, where do i send recomendations for the emplyee of the month award?


P.S. Luthier i can understand why u and Oleg wanted to tweak a video some more before showing, some people on theese boards are so unforgiving its not even funny anymore.

Keep up the good work and keep em comming. (Dont forget to look left and right next time u take the Bf109 up for a spin ;) )

....but mainly I just upset you. :grin::grin:

leave him alone. :roll:
I know he has bad sense of humor, is a downer ect.

But he is....
uuh, uh, uh. from England?

lol

Haha :D yes ;)

It's been a long wait for BoB, but I gotta tell you I'm impressed by the video even though it's still in the "works" as they say.It looks awesome....My hopes are up again that Oleg and crew will do their best to deliver to us a World-class leading Combat Flight Simulator. :grin:

As for the argument over the buffeting, I have been lucky enough (a couple of years ago) to fly a world class aerobatic plane, the German build Extra300L to be exact...this plane is a genuine Dogfighter with unlimited maneuvers, top speed 407 kph, roll rate of 340 degrees a second....anyways as I said I was lucky enough to fly one for almost an hour and I'll tell you at high speed, doing barrel rolls, himmermans etc; There is definately buffeting, but it is pronounced only at certain times.Now how and when buffeting would show up on WW2 fighters such as the Spit would only be a guess on my part.I guess talking to an actual WW2 pilot would be the best source to answer that question.

Anyways Oleg keep up the great work, although I am dying in anticipation I have my money ready for the release whenever you feel it's ready. :) ...but please more videos!!


_3

Awesome
 

AWESOME



It's an early video but I'm excited!!!

HOwever the shaking felt off because it felt it it was on the verge of stalling. All the time. :)


Nonetheless, we have to thank Oleg n Co for releasing it and being so sneaky about it!



But I totally agree with Z, in that you don't notice the head shaking . . . it happens but your perception clouds it out . . .

Or your mind tunes it out to save itself from TMI . . .

and so if the pilots don't perceive that shaking, BOB SOW should cancel it out.

Leave shaking to tell me if the planes going to stall.

In IL-2 I always look for the shake when I'm pushing it (the plane) to the edge).

The shake in an aircraft on certain day's and conditions is not limited to your neck and head moving around a bit. I had many time's when there was quite alot of bouncing, jolting, and in general being thrown around a bit. Very simalar to a boat ride in a way. Then again on certain days and the time of the day is important, you can have nothing at all. Its just all related to the current condition's in the atmosphere. Anyway in game I'm sure that the weather and propwash will bounce us a bit...I think that I will enjoy that

Yes, but because the size mass of the aircraft is large and the mass of the pilots head is small, even slight movements of the the aircraft will have a large effect on the pilots head.

You are 100% right, Oleg and the development team have spent more time working on this than us all combined and they know the direction they want to take!

I must say I'm a bit jelous and would love to see some of your footage. Would the exaggeration your talking about be due to the focal length setting of your video's lens? If you zoom in any movements shakes etcf would become more pronounced, just as if you used a fish eye lens you find them reduced. (Need a photography expert here to help!)

As stated before (and after) by a few people our brains tend to make us ignore the bad effect, my point is that when we try to concentrate on the gun sights this would be one of the times when it would be noticable. You would need to keep your head in a relatively fixed position (within the viewing angle of the refector sight) and thats when you'ld notice the movement.

My link to the video was not an ideal choice, but it did show the effect I was talking about.

What would they say if you did an experiment and put a post and ring sight on your ultra-light and ..... Hmmm! On second thoughts it might raise a few eye-brows :0

100% agree with you BUT 'pritty good' does not equate to a 'SteadyCam' experience.

Pass on the details of the research tho the development team. As with the ricochet information they were looking for, I'm sure they are trying to make the sim as realistic as posible. Within the bounds of Artistic License (been itching to use it in context- sorry) and the huge number of other priorities I'm sure it could be useful to them.

Really looking forward to the next update!
Cheers to all :)

It's also important to realise that the eye, muscular system have some ability to compensate for vibration and the human mind has an ability to interpret movement. The subjective impression of shaking may be much less for a human being in the actual plane than for a human watching a recording made with a camera on that plane.

So, it would be nice if this were a customisable feature.

I think that any shaking in a aircraft you are keenly aware of just because you are off the ground and out of your environment. In my case being shaken always triggered fear and rapid mental assessment.

Ummm, I don't know about that...I seem to recall that you lost your cool quite a few times in the past. I don't remember ever resorting to "name calling", like you have... ;)

Lacking both the intellegence and imagination required to experience that emotion, I must conceed that it was often a topic discussed by my instructors (many of whom went on to find ground based employment) and passengers (many of whom went on to get their pilots licences - so that they would NEVER have to fly with me again!!!) at the end of each flight. I just put it down as the 'Exhilaration of Flight'!

Just joking of course ;) Then again two of my brothers and at least one of my friends did go on to get their pilots licences after flying with me just once ..... Hmmm!

colors are a little more pronounced in the screenies but overall it's still a little too gray, the panel not quite black enough and green not quite green enough.

color might still have fine tuning to undergo and maybe in a less weathered cockpit it will be look better. I myself, am still holding out for progressively weathered cockpits, although it will not be I can't stress enough how over the top bad ass it would be to have this at some point. Even if there were only 10 or so progressively weathered skins that changed after a certain number of flight hours, battles seen, etc. With only 10 stages of damage it would probably be best if they changed in between missions, but it would still be cool and if were animated in real time like the exteriors it would be unbelievably awesome.

and I mean awesome

unbelievably A W E S O M E

is someone taking notes here?

I respect all the graphic wish lists, but to be forthright. I'd prefer more tools that let us work with the game play, i.e, programmable mission buiilder, probablistic programming tools for AI performance, weather programming, AI that can't see through clouds, sensible physics, etc.

The stuff that really makes the sim viable is the gameplay. Sure all the graphics is a plus, but delaying the SOW to satisfy all the graphic wishlists will put us even further release of SOW.

We are still all doing this sim with 10 year old graphics and enjoying it. There are plenty of non-graphic things that would give this old hound dog alot of punch.

TD is planning a multi-object editor ability in FMB, AI performance is being tweaked. These kinds of improvements are improvements, graphic improvements are great... but you get used to them pretty darn quick.