LISTEN! I'm making a remark to someone making the comparison & I challenge it. Now having to repeat myself to someone that believes 90% of ppl have no care for the work of Maddox & his team is completely pointless.

The name IL-2 Sturmovik was bolted onto this title to sell units. Chuck the Sturmovik namesake onto Blazing Angels 3 & you'd be jumping up & down for sure, but you'd then also be obliged to compare because they both start 'IL-2'

How can you NOT make & challenge comparisons to flight games, that's what 'ppl like me' believe anyway.

Yeah the 90% I pulled out of my ass meant to mean most gamers that arent into PC sims, and never said 'ppl'. Looks like it's a bit of a touchy subject so i'll step back. IL2 wasnt even my point. It's that you seemed to be saying they couldnt be compare for whatever reason which IMO is stupid.

Well mate, I don't debate with ppl that 'pull facts & figures out of their ass'. Atleast PantherAttack puts across a point & openly knows what he's talking about.

And true: My point remains. They can't be compared; particularly now you're ass-talking figures tell me that most flightsim gamers don't even know of the pc title I speak of.

I think that's your view & not the view shared by many others!

I'm outta here, it's Sat night u know!

Oh, okay, since I 'know what I'm talking about' I'll talk.

What stealth finger is saying is that almost nobody knows who Oleg Maddox is (relative to the rest of the world) or even cares who he is. You can compare anything to anything. I can compare the pencil that's a few inches away from my keyboard to a bowling ball if I wanted to. Or a palm tree to a pine tree. Maybe television remote to a rock in the desert?

A lot of this conversation consists of generalizations and assumptions, but I guess that doesn't necessarily matter. All stealth finger is saying is that you can compare BoP to IL-2 1946.

Exactly this. I never said people haven't heard of il2. They have but have no idea about the people who make it.

You can take the example from anywhere. Most gamers dont know about the differences between the original fallout games on pc and the new one on consoles. They where made by completely different companies in different ends of the spectrum genre and are rightly compared. Some can't stand the new style and consider it an insult to the fallout name, some cant stand the old style or never played it, some appreciate both and don'y know what all the fuss is about,

That's a perfect example. I for one appreciate both, but that's another story. ;)

Fallout 3 and Fallout 2 are very different games. But they still have the same theme and general setting. The same applies for IL-2 1946 and IL-2 BoP. Both are aerial combat games set in Europe during World War II. Just like Fallout 2 and Fallout 3 are both role-playing-games set in a post-apocalyptic United States.

To say that you can't compare 2 games that share the same name, forum and genre is wrong.

You can have different expectations across platfoms. Even then you'll still be able to make comparisons.

What do you mean *insert console version of sim game here* is anything like *insert PC version of sim game here*?

The console game is just a top down, pub coin op clone and the PC game is the second coming of Christ (who looks Russian, I swear!).

I'm not discussing this with people that generalise numerical data...

You all massively need to know I'm off to self-aggrandise with a Perry Como tribute Sciffle/Ragga 4 piece synth progressive-rock outfit, I'm on wagon wheels me!



Who needs screaming modern warfail teens when there's such wonderful pomposity to be had here :rolleyes:...

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to pointlessly let you know I'm off to count the bloated,undigested sultanas in my daughters nappy....hey look, 5 this morning!

Are you drunk or something? I didn't understand any of that. Honestly.

My original point is that Il2 BOP has sullied the Il2 brand. I never directly compared the games. The reason I had such high hopes for BOP (and indeed bought it without even considering 'Heroes over Europe') was because of the reputation of the Il-2 series. Now because I feel I've been let down by BOP it reflects on the whole brand. They can't have it both ways and trade on their brand for sales (as in " Famous title comes to consoles") and then say oh no thats nothing to do with their brand when it turns out to be a turd.

Why do you think Cadbury have trademarked their color of purple for chocolate packaging? Why do Walt Disney suits scour the world looking for unlicensed images of mickey mouse in kids playgrounds?

Whats with all the pompous PC gamers all of a sudden? You guys just here to pour salt in our wounds or what? The forum for the version that has turning wheels is just one down from this one. You might find more people that care there.

hopefully the door will hit you on the way out

Not sure who you are directing that at.

qft!

LOL. I know that was aimed at me & I believe ppl here have me wrong with this so-called pompous attitude toward PC games but when an attack is that well written & so funny, I can't do nothing other than praise you for your original wordage, That did nake me laugh. :grin:

Originally Posted by imnotgeoff
hopefully the door will hit you on the way out



Was aimed at me.

Well from what I know you have no intentions of leaving, so I guess that's not going to happen.

I think you are forgeting that it is the Publisher 505 games that has caused this by not allowing the devs to continue to work on improving the game. BoP is a solid game that could have been added to and improved ten fold if the devs were given the green light. Sadly on console every update costs money and 505 are cheap arses. As Houndstone has shown us in videos the PC version of BoP is being updated and improved very regularly to become an exellent game just like the original IL-2 on PC. This proves BoP is not a "turd" and did not sully the brand, 505 did that by themselves.

Can you imagine how bad the original IL-2 Stumovik on PC would have looked if it was never once updated from the original code? And the brand certainly wouldn't have become what it is today.

Now its silly to say Il-2 1946 and BoP can't be compared because you can compare anything you lke together. Let me compare the two quickly how I see it.

1946 - A far more technical experierence and a lot more in depth, a true simulator for enthusiasts that has been constantly worked on and improved by many, many dedicated people.

BoP/WoP - A more bare bones title but still one that is very enjoyable for most people thanks to different skill modes. disposes of more technical things like engine management in favour of a more cinematic aproch than 1946 and has excelent graphics being a much newer game. Like any new game BoP had bugs, these unfortunatly were unable to be fixed. But with continued support WoP on PC has fixed this and also has the posibilty of adding to this some aspects of 1946 if that is what people want or more of the same.


SoW - What the hell i'm comparing this too seeing my bringing it up started all this ;) SoW at first will be like a brand new version of the original IL-2 which means it will be nothing like as big as 1946. But the basic bones of the Sim will be made of pure gold which will last for many years, over which time the game will flesh out and grow and grow untill it is a massive golden giant of epicness :cool:

So True! I am great :-P

lol seriously though you are right. Ive never played another game on xbox live where almost everyone you meet is a nice person like on BoP. Its a pleasure to fly with you guys :)

Hey listen. If my opinions offend you so much then I'm sorry for you. I've only been staying around here to share my video work with you all but other than some mighty fine comments from some very nice forum users here, I've had nothing but snubbery & even jibes just because they don't portray your BIRDS of prey (& yes I do also post them to the 1c IL-2 site aswell as the WoP site.

Want me & opinions elsewhere? No problems. I'll take the vids down too for you.

Wanting virtual doors to hit me on the way out? Not nice atall really but there you go. Only makes the person in question sound like a bit of a jerk off.

Its not that you're offending anyone so much as we don't appreciate the holier than thou attitude. We are all already aware that BoP has some glaring problems, but the majority of the people still hanging around have decided that the game is worth our time, patch or no patch. At this point, trying to convince us otherwise is futile.

Mr Hawk,
I salute your genorisity sir. If I ever manage to sneak the expenditure of a combat-flightsim capable pc past the wife I would dearly like to see a decent "flight simmer" in action such as yourself, as I have much to learn. Until then I ,and many others ,are stuck on the il-poo version.
I do understand some of the percieved vehemence of your posts was merely a product of your entusiasm for the genre, and any negativity creeping into this thread is largely a product of our collective disappointment in a less than satisfactory transition of a series that ,on PC, demonstrated a work of love and realised the combatsim dreams of many.

With cap tipped to you sir,
Justin

Thank you for trying, but I really do not want to go to PC since it would require uprgrading or replacing my computer and I do not know if my flight stick would work with a pc or not. Offer a sequel or DLC and I will buy it.

No matter what your feelings are that language will not be tolerated. Theres no reason for me to try to convince you that they tried their best with the console version.

right
1. the console version isnt bad it just could be better
2. its the publishers who ripped us off not anton and the devs

The PC is the better platform for Flight Sims but the question is which is the more convenient for gaming and more suited to on-line play - consoles or PC's? For me its a console but I also accept that a console version will never fully equate to the PC version - something close is all I ask for! There was an opportunity to make BOP as good as it can get for consoles but sadly they missed it!

A lot more response from Anton concerning console sequel, reasons for updating PS3 only, PS3 v Xbox sales, etc.....worth reading on the Yu-play forum...........

Thanks!
 

Antoms answers are in blue..................names of people asking the questions not shown (in Italics).

hey anton just a quick question,what's your honest opinion about flight sims being on consoles?do you think that the market is there to sustain a continual community with DLC and other things,i ask because BOP is really the only one trying to do the full sim thing,the blazing angels games dont count an neither does heroe over europe.Or do you think that with all the problems regarding the bop patch for 360 and the fact sims are niche titles,that there is a future for them?


I think, they will be one or two more shots in this generation. Probably, from us :)
But I don't think DLC thing is going to work. Yes, DLC that was released by 505 was pverpriced, but there is no any other flightsim game on the market and 5% DLC buy rate would be reasonable - but it never reachs this rate.

there had to have been more sales for the 360


1. PS3 vesion outsells X360 version.
2. MS charges for update itself, Sony charges only for traffic.
3. PS3 could have been improved more (support of some PC USB flight-sticks, for example, is impossible).

So, for less money publisher made better update for more people. That was reasonable.
However, sells haven't been improved, nor for the game itself, neither for DLC.

I am not excusing anyone, I am just explaining. As for me, it would be very reasonable to make update for X360 version as well, while the game is still selling.
But I am not the decision maker here.

am i right in saying that now bop development is dead and i need to pin my hopes on you guys making a sequal??


We are very willing to make sequel (and are doing some development already, incorporating new features to Wings of Prey).
We hope, we'll sign deal with some publisher (developers can't release X360 game themselves, without publisher, even on XB Live) - the Birds of Prey was successful, probably not the best title of all times, but meets expectations.
We do not have publishing deal signed yet.


I gather from the above that the Xbox patch was never developed and that the sales of the patched PS3 version failed to improve (less than 5% sales for the DLC).

The PS3 was technically better in that it supported PC joysticks and the cost of releasing the patch for the PS3 was far cheaper than for MS Xbox due to differences between Sony and Microsoft regarding the costs of updates.

Hopefull news
 

Anton - "We are very willing to make sequel (and are doing some development already, incorporating new features to Wings of Prey).
We hope, we'll sign deal with some publisher"

Hopeful news...thanks Evangels

Well I am glad to hear this! Sounds like they are working on a console sequal (maybe 'Wings of Prey'??) and that they obviously will be going with a different publisher but have not chosen one yet. I am also glad to hear that 'BoP' has sold enough to justify a sequal.

Something has to be done about the availability and ease for buying great flightsticks for the XBOX 360.
I think Microsoft should just third party 'HORI' to produce more "Ace Edge" flightsticks and make them available at either Wal-Mart or Best Buy.... or Microsoft needs to open the market for compatable flightsticks for the 360.

Well, The devs did a great job on this game and I wish them continued success. It is too bad that 505 had to screw up the update and their relationship with the devs and the gaming community. HOWEVER this is still a GREAT game that is really fun! I am hopeful for the sequal and I wish that everything goes better for the devs this time around.

Thanks again 1C and Gaijan for your hard work and making such a great game!

The worrying thing is that any sequel may be a PS3 exclusive given the costs of updating and the better platform....anyone want to buy a an Xbox! :grin:

Don't sell that XBOX just yet....
 

Don't sell that XBOX just yet....

Anton - "We are very willing to make sequel (and are doing some development already, incorporating new features to Wings of Prey).
We hope, we'll sign deal with some publisher (developers can't release X360 game themselves, without publisher, even on XB Live) - the Birds of Prey was successful, probably not the best title of all times, but meets expectations.
We do not have publishing deal signed yet."


I believe the Devs will make the XBOX version also, makes sense, if your doing one, might as well do them both, it means more $$$ overall.

I never bought the DLC because charging 800msp for DLC that is not DLC at all but content already on the disc is rip off pure and simple.

I'm glad only 5% of people bought it, that restores my faith in humanity.

If they do publish a sequel I have to admit I might pass if 505 games publish. I understand they are a small publisher and MS charges for updates, but the utter lack of any post launch support other than to attempt to sell content on media the user has already bought does not cut it for me.

The game itself was not bad, but MP was gimped by an atrocious damage/kill scoring system and impossible unlocks. They should have fixed that at least, it killed the online community in 2 weeks.

Lets hope a better publisher picks up the sequel, but there is no excuse if the devs don't test MP next time or make pathetically stupid unlock goals. If they do make one I'll wait for user reviews next time, no pre-order from me.

I got it when it was 400msp I thought that was a reasonable price point, probably wouldn'tve for 800msp

That's a good point but .....

...I am optimistic that this is what will happen. But like I mentioned earlier, the flightstick situation needs to be resolved meaning that the "Ace Edge" sticks need to be re-released or Microsoft needs to make a patch or adapter that allows the 360 to work with PC/PS3 flightsticks.

The "Ace Edge" flight-stick is manufactured by Hori ,Is available in black(see my earlier post) & works perfectly with BOP. (apart from brakes!)
:grin:

If your going to do a sequel, do us all a favor and play some of the Current top of the heap Multi player games.

Heroes of the Pacific for PS2 had a better lobby system than BoP.

We want in depth stat tracking, completion updates in real time(ala Gears 2 and ODST), and bragging rewards(skins, emblems for the plane, paint schemes, etc.) to name a few.

Also, a better hosting system that auto merges lobbies and migrates hosts, all things you expect from video games in the 2010.

I would much rather get a patch for the 60 bucks I already spent, though.
Needless to say, I won't be buying any video game published by 505 ever again.

:evil:

only cost you $60?? It cost me $140 pre-ordered. Plus there is no flight sticks available in NZ, & it was gona cost at the LEAST $140 to get one sent over from OZ. so im real gutted that theyve washed their hands of this game.

Any more DLC gona be available??
Any idea on how long a sequel would take? 1 year, 2 years?

The full game is out: it's called "wings if prey" for the PC.

Judging from the response of Anton, no DLC. I guess if your game isn't Ace Combat or Tom Clancy related, then no DLC for you.
:-x

New submarine warfare game by 505
 

Dear All

505 are releasing a submarine warfare simulator (WWII) so have e-mailed them asking how can I be sure they will support it after not supporting BOP. Suggest you might wish to do the same and keep the pressure on.

Regards

Jimn10

cool that sounds interesting. let the hunt for red october begin.

Is this for the consoles or PC? If consoles, it'll be interesting to see how they make it work. If PC, we already have Silent Hunter, why would we need their crappy version of sub warfare?

It's on the 360

Regards

Jimn10

I had the original Silent Hunter PC version and it bored the pants of me after a short while......so 505 are publishing it? Hmm....bad mix here...........Torpedo's and no patch for the holes in the game = Another 505 Title Sunk! ...not on my shopping list for sure....:grin:

was it that bad

It was ok but repetitive.....raise periscope, spot ship, fire torps....ship sinks with endless sailing and navigating across maps. Not a lot of strategy but games have moved on since then so it may be ok. IIRC, a second updated version was released but I didn't buy it! Best to wait for the demo....and wether it needs patching............

thats a good idea

They're up to SH5 now - it runs like crap on my computer, but 4 runs ok and I just picked up a used copy of 3 which runs very nicely. Right now, I'm mostly playing a modded version of SH3.

I'll admit there is a lot of down time - just sailing around. Of course, that's not too far off. Lots of time was spent at sea just getting from A to B or patrolling and waiting for something to cross your path. Fortunately, there's time compression so it doesn't take too long.

What settings did you play it on? I used to truck around with most of the helps on, which made hitting targets pretty easy, but less rewarding. Now, I've been playing with manual targeting on - which means figuring out the firing solution myself - target speed, AOB, range and bearing. It's a lot more challenging. Very frustrating at first, until you learn the finer points of how your equipment works and how to find all that missing information. It took me a few patrols before a good percentage of my torpedoes started finding their marks. Now, if I can keep stealthy, I can usually set up a high percentage shot and hit a spot on the target within about 20 meters. So far, I've been playing it safe and hunting where I'm bound to find single, unescorted ships - building my skill before I go take on a convoy with escort. Then, there will be the fun/challenge of sneaking past a destroyer screen, or if spotted, evading them before they put you on the bottom.

Meh, that sub game looks like pure arcade rubbish. Type VII subs with US markings and torps that float on the surface. I'll stick with Silent Hunter 3 GWX on my PC.

Plus

I WOULD NEVER BUY ANOTHER 505 GAMES PRODUCT, BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO PATCH THE BROKEN MULTIPLAYER IN THIS GAME.

+1, and I'll never get tired of saying so. Plus I'll tell anyone that will listen.

ditto!

When your a small publishing company such as 505, then every sale really does count.

I for one will be doing the same as many of you and not buying anything they throw out, good or not. Purely because i fear they wouldnt patch isuues and screw over the community.

So with so many people turning it down, it could affect them deeply.

I'll be giving this game a miss.

I'm not sure that is true. If games like this fail to sell it doesn't hurt 505 nearly as much as it does the small DEVELOPERS that make these type of niche games, and in turn us, the people that want to play sim games. 505 will just ignore the next could be great sim, and just publish more junk like doll games instead.

I instead suggest that if you are intrested in a game but see it is a 505 published game, play the demo or rent it before you buy, wait a month or two after launch and read forums to make sure its not completly full of bugs. If you do like it then decide wether to wait till you see it at a bargin price or not, taking into acount that it probably wont be supported by 505 with updates and dlc (just like on a PS2).

I agree, I'll never buy a 505 or oleg game anymore. They released a bugged and unfinished game

I'm not sure about never buying an Oleg game... 505 is the problem, not Oleg.

Don't buy their games new. Buy them used. That way, they get nothing for the sale, other than the initial buy.

I saw that A submarine game is coming from them, and needless to say, I'll be waiting till after its been out awhile.

the game was produced from oleg or not? WHY release a bugged game or unfinished?
I don't agree the problems are both: 505 and oleg, and I repeat this was my last game from them

Oleg didn't actually participate in the development of the game, correct? So why blame Oleg? Or am I missing something?

As I recall Birds of Prey has no relation to the PC series IL-2 Sturmovik other than the name (IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey).

looks strange, I thought we were posting on oleg forum.

So??? 1C Company did not develop this game. That said, neither did 505, but 505 was the main publisher of the game. From what I remember, 1C Company had to do with shipping and distribution.