I don't ever recall the German cockpits being promised and I've never been under the impression they would be included in the patch.

They said they would make German cockpits from the very beginning, and had most of us believe they'd be in the patch. I might find a quote, but I'm too lazy atm.

On a side note, I'm glad people keep on showing how much they appreciate the community of this forum, even though they think the game is broken, and keep repeating that.

I can't believe some people think this game is broken, play more video games and you'll see that IL2 is no where near the level of "broken" when compared to other games from other developers. cough, cough...ea games

Please tell me which.

And herein lies the problem I think.

Here's a different point of veiw.
I haven't played a 'proper' flight sim since CFS2. I stopped buying PC games because of the constant upgrades needed etc.

I bought a playstaion and never looked back.
Since that day I've been waiting for a console flight sim type of game and have bought many over the years PS2 and 3 only to be dissapointed.

I saw IL-2 on the shelf on it's day of release and wondered if this may be the one.. And it is, by far the best flight'sim' game on a console that I've played.

I've played hundreds of online arcade matches and have had the more enjoyment out of this game than any other game I've played online. Bought COD6/MW2/Franchise expansion, and whilst it's a good game there is nowhere near the depth that you get in even an online IL-2 game.

I'm so bored by the 'hardcore' brigade banging on about all of the flaws and faults and technicallities...

Get yourselves into a good 5 a side arcade match kill some planes, get killed have a laugh.

To comapre the console version against the PC version is futile. Different animals, different market.

So to the people who made this I'd like to say thanks coz I've had a great time playing it. And I will continue to. To anyone who's thinking of trading in their copy of the game I would urge you to do it, it's useless just sat there, someone will pick it up cheap and play it.

Although he states he doesn't care, I have to agree with HOUSE MD on this issue. Those bugs and missing functionalities (please don't forget the messy flightstick setup) and other issues, which have been mentioned a lot of times now in various threads, do make this game certainly not perfect as some people try to believe.
So, I still hope this patch will arrive, if not I will avoid any 1C games, as I donot accept the way they treat their customers.
Hope to see some of you in an online game, if no error message appears.

Comparing BOP console to a PC version is OK but this is the first and only title attempt at a WW2 combat sim for a market dominated by Arcade style games. I have a drawer full of PC games that will not work on my PC because of issues with memory, processor, wrong Graphics card or one not supported, thats what I call useless never mind 'broken'!
Buy BOP, slap it into your console and it works and you know it will work, in that respect alone its money well spent! How well it works is down to the individual but for me its a no hassle purchase that has given me hours of enjoyment which is how I evaluate a title. Being realistic is not the same as being deluded!

EA... The Battlefield series. One of the best shooters made (better than MW2 IMO), but the mics are so broken...

O, and NFS: Shift. I don't think any game will fail as hard as that on again. There's a pic somewhere on the net where somebodys X-BOX was trying to connect to the Playstation Network to play online. XD

lmao
i thought bf1943 was decent for its price but it seriously needs an artilery vehicle, bomber turrets and dlc

No your missing it
 

The game it self is fine .OK GOT IT .THE problem is the COMMUNITY and the fact that we have no one to play with the ONLY thing that my get it back is the update .OK got it ,or is there a way I can draw you a picture...

Picture not needed, I go on every night and get a game no problem. Small community maybe but regulars are still there!

I agree with SEE.

Also I believe that publishers 505 games are not awful. They publish games that very few other publishers would gamble on. And I don't think you can blame them for the patch delay. Armoured Core games are published by 505 and they have constant title updates coming out, so 505 know what they are doing.

Well 79% on GameRankings over 12 reviews kind of indicates otherwise. I would be interested to hear what half you think is missing... There's a good campaign, and shyte load of extra single missions and fun online. Admittedly the online generates the impression it's empty when it wasn't, which wasn't good for the title, but I'm still interested to know how you think everything on the disk only constitutes half a game?

And what makes you say it's badly coded? In caps no less. You're entitled to your opinion of course, and if you don't like the game that's fine. But don't make statements about it that are false. Give examples.

No-one said it was perfect, but it is good. The patch will be welcome, but even if it doesn't come, this game is up the with the best of my collection. My opinion, and clearly it's different from yours.

God, I am sick to death of hearing about the P bloody 51 and the other couple of dodgy planes. There 40 odd fkin planes in the game. Fly another one. Plus, the P51 was as broken in the demo as it is in the final game. Maybe you should have tried that and saved yourself and ourselves all the moaning?

Well, you know the answer then don't you?

This is ignorant and wrong. Developers are at the mercy of publishers. And 505 games, despite what a lot of you may think, do deserve credit, not only for taking the gamble with this niche product at a time when the whole world is desperate for revenue, but also for putting out the patch, despite the delay.

I think this is the core of your's and all other PC converts problem... You had massive expectations for this game, and as such it didn't meet them. It's not the dev's or the publisher's fault that the product that they've released doesn't meet your expectations. But those of us that evaluate it on it's own merits, and not what it could have or should have been, are having fun with it.

Again, ignorant and niave about the workings of the game industry. Publishers don't give a crap what gamers want. They look at their spreadsheet of what sells and make more of it until it stops selling. Now and then the odd publisher will take a risk on something, like 505 did with BoP. But when it gets thrown back in their face it's going to make them less inclined to do so. So it's behaviour like yours that is endangering these sorts of releases.

Now we wait. They said the update went to Sony on the 18th for approval. Can't wait for it, and then the cockpit patch. :grin:

Is that really your response to complaints about the American planes? Fly another one? Give me a break.

Anyone who knows anything about WW2 avation will know the P-51 and P-47 were among the most effective and deadly planes of the era. And don't give me the "P-51 is supposed to fight at high altitudes" crap. It could hold it's own in a phone booth.

And I'm guessing there were no issues with the P-51 in the demo because we assumed the full payload of rockets had a little something to do with it. With that said, it would not have made a difference if people were complaining then, since all we have recieved is another broken plane and a few "missions".

Anyway, I still have my copy which I recieved on Day 1, and I don't see myself getting rid of it soon. But if this (360) update takes another month and there is no news on DLC or cockpits, I will dump it on principle alone.

I must say that not having the correct cockpit for the P-51D-NT5 (which I think is the model in the game) is a bugger because there's a second slip indicator ball on the gunsight housing that really helps with keeping coordinated through a guns pass. Still not sure why the wrong 'pit was used - was any explanation ever offered as to why?

With a wing-loading of about 39 lbs per square foot, higher than yak-3 and almost as high as the bf109, I wouldn't count on a p51 to win a low-turn radius fight. You need low wing loading to stay mobile at low speed. Such as the Spitfire at about 24 lbs/ft^2, and the Zero at 22. Without low wing-loading, you need high thrust-to-weight to fight the planes that do. P51D had 0.18 hp/lb, same as the Zeros and among the lowest of all the fighters. How's that for knowing something?

P51 enjoyed a serious numerical advantage from the moment it entered service, and its primary role was escort and interception at high speed, and ground support, like it was designed for. That's where it got its kills and its reputation.

so the fact that the game needs a patch as its broken and doesnt furfill what it says it does on the back of the case wont harm this game genre then ?


all this arguing about this game is crud its took what was when i first came here a great and tight comunity and split it down the middle and made us all cranky and bitchy at each other i put most of that down to all this waiting for a patch and the fact that 505 game cant even be bothered to inform the very comunity that was supporting this game by simply making a single post to reasure ppl that the patch was even coming :evil:


rant over

The P-51 handling has been explained and makes perfect sense. The plane is right, just not set for immediate combat flight. It's not the model that's wrong. It'll get tweaked.
I've had plenty of games I enjoyed that had a lot more flaws than this one and I didn't let it drive me off. If you want a perfect game these days, you won't get it. They're too complex and too easy to patch later. Just how it is, we aren't playing space invaders anymore. Point out issues but the incessant bitching gets old and just annoys the other fans, since most associated with the game itself won't even be around to read it.

QFT
there's no such thing as a perfect game, and prob never will (maybe exept for MGS3-4 I went completly nuts over these titles, matter of opinion tho). Lets not kid ourselves here. This game offers a great gaming experience, the little tweaks will prob make it even better (joysticks and other stuff def cant hurt)... but if u cant enjoy this game as it is right now, you prob wont like it even after the patch came in.

Agreed. But almost 3 months to fix some very basic flaws that should have never made it past QA? C'mon, even EA is more responsive than that. Regardless of who's fault it is, it has effectively killed the online community for this game. What could've really been a gem is going to become a bargain bin queen.

Sadly, I watched Battlestations: Pacific go down the same way. At least Eidos had an excuse, as they went under not long after release.

What? Like the BF2 patch that was in beta for a year? Or the 2142 patch that was in beta for a year? Or Mercs 2 that is still totally bugged on PC? Or Hellgate London that shutdown 1 year after release?

Sorry but EA are one of the WORST offenders for late patching, non existant support, and helluva bugged games. And before someone pulls out something like BioShock, that didnt get a patch for 4 months after release and even then it was only a "lite" patch doing bugger all to help. Or how about HAWX that didnt get its absolutely required patch (due to huge game flaws) for 8 months?

In short, unless its an MMO or a huge blockbuster title then patches are always going to be later than people want them. In BoP's case 4 months is average for a game title to get a full patch, thats actually adding features and not fixing critical showstoping bugs.

+1
And again, I think it's useless to keep on talking on how publishers suck etc. We have no idea how the whole system works, who answers to who, etc.

Yes it is. The P51 is one plane of forty. That is 2.5%. And even though it's not the only broken plane (FW I'm looking at you) it's still the minority by a long way. Fly another one - there are plenty that aren't broken.

I'm sorry if you are a die-hard P51 fan and that is all you care about. But this is not P51: Birds of Prey. Just because a few planes are broken does not make the entire BoP package a complete failure.

But I guess to me the glass is way more than half full. If you want to focus on it being a little bit empty that is your loss, not mine.


And to dazz1971: you're putting words into my mouth. How is a handful of broken planes equivalent to chocolates with all but four rotten? Unless there are only 5 in the box. I'm not wasting my lunch arguing against something where you've either not read my post properly, or you've read it as well as you've written the response. My lunch break is too short to bother. I hope you can find a game out there that does meet your standards.

JEZZ what a jurk
 

Dude I love your left handed personal attacks. Pompous, Arrogant,And Ignorant .Well lets just say ,Yes I bet you know something about all of that stuff.And I don't know who you are ,or what that" SR Member" means beside your name "must be a way of saying just hear to defend this piece of crap that you wasted your money on to the dieing end"Do they pay you for this service or do you go down for free!!!!.OK jerk now I would tell you really what I think of you,this game,and everyone concerned,But This piece of Chit has not been in my console in a week, and MY friend list is mostly made of people that I made friends with on the first week of this game"see I cleared my friends list of most of the people on my list to make room for this game. THAT`s HOW MUCH IT MEANT TO ME TO GET A GAME LIKE THIS"so.Thats why I`m so pissed This was to be MY GAME but last night from my friends list there was TWO "FREAKING 2 "people playing They where playing each other and told me that they had seen no one else on.So any way I would stay to tell you what I think of you but .after all this I just don't care .If they patch this game to spew money out of the front of my Xbox ,I still will not be back out of protest .I will never Buy ANY game with the 505 or C1,Logo on it.LAST POST>>BUY...

ok One more.
 

Ok I stopped smoking last week.So, was my last post maybe a little over the top?Just asking.God I need a smoke!!!!!!!

The whole personal attack stuff was a bit unnecessary.. the rest made some sense.
Hope you can find some other game that can be 'your game'. Bye :).

IiI GUNNY IiI: I believe you are the one who launches personal attacks, and still continue to do so. But feel free - it reflects more on you than me.

I won't deny there are some broken things about BoP, and that some things couldn't be better. But to say the game is completely broken, unplayable, a coaster or whatever else it has been accused of by some people who seem to pin all their hopes on the patch is just plain wrong. In my opinion, the game is good as it stands, and the patch will only make it better.

It's not the game's fault you cleared all your friends and whatever else you did. It wasn't a requirement to play the game. And even if this game had a perfect lobby system, I've no doubt that the community would have been significantly reduced by the release of MW2, which is, after all, only the biggest game ever. And I suppose that is the developer/publisher's fault too?

But thanks for your constructive contributions. See ya.


BTW, the "Senior Member" is related to post count. I don't know how obvious that is to others.

Bottom line is that the so called "community", doesn't exist anymore and people that bought and enjoyed the multiplayer are upset with such a massive tease, just a few changes and it could have been a cult classic hit like consoles have never seen before... who knows if even a perfect patch could bring people back.

So says you, who has barely even bothered to join in with the "community" you said doesn't exist. Its patently obvious that your wrong, as the community does exist, as this here forum clearly shows.

I bought it and still enjoy multiplayer, and I am not bothered when the patch comes out. A patch wont make the game any better as a title, it will simply add a couple of features and clear up some things that the MP game could do with.

Frankly I'm getting sick and tired of all the whinging by so called "members", its almost as if none of you have even bought a game before.

This promised BoP patch is an added bonus for an already unique experience.
(BTW I am a software dev myself (unfortunately not in developping games/sims, which is probably about the hardest thing one could set out to do).
Dunno about BoP, but in general when we talk about software users:
- some users will never ever be satisfied
- some will always claim (your) software is not ready
- some people will never even try to find and admit there is good in anything
- flaws in almost everything are a fact of life, some flaws only due to limited resources.
I have nothing but admiration for these devs (and publishers) that have an almost impossible task to satisfy the most demanding people of all: (hardcore) simmers.
Thx 1C/505/devs for this beautiful game/sim.
"Approve or Improve".

Quoted for truth. Amen, bro.

I love anton and his crew for the game that they made but blind love thats happening here is pretty sad.

all that was required to fix this game months ago was a hotfix for the crash bug and the game would have retained the community for MONTHS

i dont believe for a second that any of this waiting for 3 months would have happened if the "Extra" playstation functionalities like keyboard support , and extra joystiks were not implemented. The QA testing and legal bullshit they would have to go through to get this enabled would be mindwrecking.

and all we needed in the first place was a quick fix with some changes in code.

now the 360 community IS dead , and from what i see now is not repairable in any way unless they start marketing the game again. because nobody is online at all and new users who buy this game are being robbed of their money if they intended to play this online.

Oh give it up, frankly I'm tired with all the brown nosers sucking up to Anton and the devs thinkin' they'll get special treatment in the future or something...

I have only seen one person on my huge friend list of IL2 360 players on since MW2 came out and more and more quality titles are coming out...

BOP is a lost cause, though I patiently await the sequel.

MW2 sucks. COD 4 plays much smoother on PC with a dedicated server.
At least Battlefield Bad Company 2 won't be screwing over pc gamers and will ship with dedicated server among other things.

Do we have to turn this into another CoD thread?
He just said people were drawn away by it, I can confirm this, even though I'm not playing it myself.

Are we there yet?


Seeing as COD will hijack just about every update thread until it happens I thought I'd just say that MW2 is ace but last night I experienced some interesting teamwork glitching involving 2 players cooperating on freeforall, sort of lying prone facing each other and somehow getting headshot on players anywhere on the map...(360)...that and solo disappearing inside a rock on afghan shooting out but impervious to fire...I watched the glitchers on terminal and estate basically kill at will...then I quit and filed a complaint..
________
Toyota Sprinter Marino History

Good man Juz, can't stand glitchers.

Ok cut the crap
 

Ok lets get real hear.I love this COD or forza high jacked the community."BS"
If this game would have been correct and tested at release,Or it would have had a hot fix of something in a timely fashion then the community would have stayed .Pilots play good pilot games.COD and Forza and IL-2 are all very different games.I impersonally would have not bought CODMW2 at all if anyone would have been playing IL-2 "the game I would have like to been playing"But no one was.Not because of CODMW2 but because of the crash BS,the plains not flying correctly BS and the server message BS that cost us players.If all these things would have been fixed "oh maybe in the FIRST TWO MOUTHS of release"maybe the community would still be playing.So stop blaming COD and forza for this games problems.Let me guess Next it well be the fault of the BUSH administration!!!!!!!

Brown nosing? Get a life kiddo, saying when something is good and you like it aint brown nosing, its called "customer satisfaction".I am a satisfied customer, as are many other members here. Your constant bitching about the game being "broken", or "dead" is a pain in the arse and members here are sick of it.

And no of course I dont expect any special treatment, that would be totally idiotic. And if you dont have any friends on BoP thats YOUR fault not the games, because with your attitude I certainly wouldnt have you on MY friends list.

Frankly if you hate the game that much why dont you fekk off to the MW2 forums, since your "brown nosing" IW.

Have you noticed That THE ONLY PEOPLE that are" satisfied customer"on this forum all have that SR.MEMBER THING beside there name,All most like they have some connection to this site or company,Funny Very Funny.It is really funny reading this crap and watching them squirm around and try to defend this piece of crap

Ermmm.... all Sr.Member means is that they've posted a lot on the forum... I'm a "senior member", and i'm certainly not affiliated to any of the companies.... but I am satisfied with the game... weird eh?

Fair point though... If you hate the game so much, why are you here? Surely you must have something better to do with your time?

I never said
 

Never said I hated the game .I do hate what has happened with it.And I'm here for the same reason people slow down a traffic accidents..

It may be a "traffic accident" regarding the Xbox community, but us PS3 Sim flyers are having a great time... I'm assuming your on Xbox? You could always defect to the darkside.....

ps3 arcade
 

I rarely have to wait for a match on the ps3, like Rhah said our community hasn't been affected that much arcade sim or realistic

Im a senior member simply because I POSTED more than X amount of times. It has bugger all to do with the company or any affiliations with such. I am not "squirming" in any way shape or form, I simply call it as I see it. Some people here simply have unrealistic expectations from the game and no matter how much patching there is they simply wont be satisfied with the product.

And lets clear this up shall we? What EXACTLY are the bugs in BoP?

2 planes with slightly untuned flight models, missing kills due to crashes and a bombing targeter that sometimes vanishes. Thats a huge bug list eh? Jesus if that what it takes for some people to call a game "broken" then they really should never buy any games ever again.

LOL"planes with slightly untuned flight models, missing kills due to crashes and a bombing target that [sometimes] vanishes .LOL OK keep going your getting warmer.

What other bugs are there then hmmm? I dont see you or anyone else actually listing any? And I mean BUGS not missing features.

Haha dude you need therapy. Have you noticed how most of us "brown-nosers" are on PS3 and as such we are getting the patch first. It totally does pay off. (I might as well run with this delusion for my own personal amusement.)

A couple of flightstick issues (which are moot to pad users) aaaaaaand....? What? Come on then - enlightened us with your awesome reasons this game is so "dead" and/or "broken"?

+1 to Lexandro

I agree,
I have no connections to these companys in any way, and I think BOP is a damn good game for a console flight sim.

I think maybe some of us , who where here long before the game came out, have a little more respect for the DEV team, but not for the Publisher.
The Dev's came here and talked to us a lot. So some of the "Senior" members who where here back then saw that , and appreciate it maybe more then the young members on here. Maybe you could be reading that aspect of things wrong.

I mean really, as BOP sits right now with no patch,, there is no other WWII flight game on console that is worthy of cleaning its Ass.

Unless I missed a heck of a game ?
DESODE

As publishers go, 505 has been pretty good too. Not only for bringing the game to market in the first place, but also for funding the patch release and sequel. OK, so they get a black mark for the DLC, but still...you wouldn't see Activision or EA treating it with as much care. Ubisoft maybe...I dunno.

Na mate Ubisoft wouldnt even bother with the patch, they would just jump ship right away and the game wouldnt even be in as good a state as it is. You should have seen the debalce that was HAWX. Makes me sick just thinking of it.

Yeah I didn't care for Hawx, I had hopes for it before it came out but after I saw it, Nah, Still though that isn't a WWII flight game.

I'll say it again " as BOP sits right now with no patch,, there is no other WWII flight game on console that is worthy of cleaning its Ass. "

DESODE

LIst
 

1.No breaks for flight sticks.
2.Bad fight models on ALOT of plains.
3.Bad message on multi player that cost us players
4.scoring system that made crashing a good thing.
5.Simulator portion of the game that has a frame problem on lots of TVs makes it impossible to see plains till there on top of you.
6. bomb site DOES NOT WORK in simulator,See a Bomb site even in sim should change for altitude and speed see that`s why it is a bomb site.
7.No patches for this game after all forums regarding this game was filled with complaints.
8.bad control set up for the controller players.The rudder and look around on the same stick "what the hell where they thinking".
9.no cockpits on half the plains
10.crashing on spawn.
11.did I point out the no patch thing..Oh ya I did
11.5. More work and talk on forums about the next game that talk about fixing this one."not a problem with the game itself but it just adds to the reasons people are pissed about this game.
12.when the game came out it came out with the controlls turned all the way up so you had to deal with ITS TO EZ TO STALL THING"see most gamers are stupid the thought of turning down the controls had to be shown to them.The controls should have been at halfway.
13.a AI system thats so weak it took me three days to have all plains and complete the game, all single missions too,Yes on sim.
14. multi system that will sometimes have 10 players in the room and split the teams up 4 on 6 ...??????????
15.NO padlock View.see in life your eyes can follow a target so even in sim there should be a padlock view this is a thing that has been in flight sims since MS flight sim 1998 so it not a new idea.
16.sound for all aircraft really poor.
17.How about the company's involved letting all this happen and not fixing it so there is no one to play with.
18.B-17 armor and lets just say P-51!!!!!!!!!!!!
19.No Tv, magazine,any type of marketing at all.Again back to that no one to play with thing.
20.Cockpits that we do have some are incorrect.The P-51D cockpit is not even close.I have been in one .No not flying, on the ground at a air show .But I have seen it and it`s just like the P-51B."Just a stupid mistake"
Ok should I go on. I have more.
OK theres a short list And im doing this at work I dont have the game in to check I can come up with more if I take more that 2 min to think about it ,but this is the off the top of my head stuff .You ask for a list. Be careful what you ask for!!!!

Everything on your list has either been acknowledged as a problem, or is purely subjective. I don't see one single item on there that stops me having fun with the game. In fact just last night I had 4 amazing online games...

But as I said before - I'll see my glass as way more than half full, and you can piss in your glass for all I care :-P

Good for you
 

Well good for you,Now Would you like to pay all of us that think this was a complete waste of money back for our games.

LOL no...it's not my fault you didn't try the demo before you bought the game. Or wait to see if it had "problems". Take responsibility for your own actions mate.

I did
 

I did try the demo and with all the bombs on the P-51 I thought it was right .and the demo covered no multi-player.and since you brought it up.
#21 the demo did not show enough of the game to show the problems...

Yep, which is why I also said...
See how I covered both bases there? Because I see how you selectively chose to ignore that part.

Gunny do you have any idea how long a QA process takes?
Guess what, they take a long time. The developers can't just wave their magic wands and fix all the bugs and implement all the suggestions they recieve. It's a process of trial and error that requires patience and diligence.
I'm sorry that you have probelms with BoP, I'm sorry that microsoft is slow when it comes to response from their QA (no i'm not, i hate microsoft) Realise fixing bugs in a game is a process of trial and error, quite often what fixes one bug will cause an entirly new bug to occur.

ok lost me
 

what does that have to do with a GD thing.Heres the thing.We have been talking about this crap for TWO months ...there is one way to fix it .WHERE IS THE GD UPDATE>till this happens ANYTHING you say is mute.

What does GD mean? Is that an abbreviation of God damn? Why not just write "God damn".. Surely its still blasphemous if you abbreviate it?

Anyway, getting pissed about the lack of update will make no difference.. its harsh on the 360 players that there isnt more news, but maybe the fact that no one is playing it on 360 has lead to Anton and Co concentrating on the PS3 version, as there are still a fair few players online?

God damn
 

Yes it stands for GOD DAMNed UPDATE,and if I post enough do I get the SR member thing or do I have to kiss something first..And does the position come with the knee pads of do I buy them myself.

Nah, the knee pads you already have in your wardrobe will do just fine.....
And yeah, keep posting and you too could join the senior members club...

(Sorry, I meant the God damned senior members club.)

ok
 

Good comeback You have my respect LOL...

It has to do with the fact that you could have saved yourself and ourselves a lot of moaning had you waitied to see if the game had any problems instead of buying it on release.

FYI, I think you mean "moot" - unless you meant to make a new oxymoron. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the game is good, patch or no patch - that makes it still my opinion irrespective of the patch.

So if one buys a new car and the gear box doesn't work in top gear then one shouldn't moan because all the other gears work fine??

Weird logic man.....

Generally folks do expect things to work 100% fine, as implied on the box, not 90% or 80% fine.

The problem with fixing the flight model errors on the consols is, I think, next to impossible, due to the attributes for each aircraft being taken from the DVD. On a PC the game is installed on a hard drive and an aircraft's individual attributes can be tampered with.

It is a shame that a few aircraft are un-useable because of this and is akin to buying a case of beer only to discover that a few bottles are stale.

Let's just enjoy the ones that are fine.

It's only weird if you apply it to your not-very-applicable analogy instead of the case in point. Drawing an analogy between mild problems with a low cost item and a significant problem with a high cost item doesn't stack up.

And yet generally, they don't work fine. Games (and software in general) have always had and always will have bugs and design issues. For almost the first week of MW2's release I could count the days by the version number. In the grand scheme of things, BoP is not as broken as people make out. And over-dramatising it's problems certainly doesn't help an already small community gain any more support.

At least one (P51) is listed in the fixes, and entire maps have been patched on other games, so it is possible. It could be as simple as changing the code from Load ("E:\some_file") to Load ("C:\some_file").

OK, lets use your analogy... You've bought a crate of forty beers, drunk half of them then found out that 2 are stale. Do you return the crate and spend the next 2 months moaning about it, or just drink the 38 good ones, remember the good times and chalk it up to experience?

Some of us do, while others refuse to believe that is possible.

Just because I feel compelled to throw my 2 cents in, here's my list of what I consider to be undeniably broken:

1) the crash bug

2) planes at a distance are visible, then become invisible before they become visible again

3) no brakes for flight sticks

4) when switching to map view, plane flips over and spirals toward the ground (worse in single mission)


Things that really should be fixed, but are more subjective than the above:

1) persistent multiplayer lobby (why does any modern game not do this???)

2) forced cockpit view for multiplayer

3) flight models for P51, FW190

4) lack of bombsight view

5) horrendous dead zone for flight sticks (I understand this is a 360 issue, but I'm feeling bitchy)

6) ability to kick players from lobby

7) correct the 'no available servers' message

I agree with this list, except for the map view part. This only happens in single missions because then you enable the AI for your plane, since you can switch to other planes/pilots through map view in some missions. Not sure why they'd spiral to the ground though :P.

I already threw my 2p's worth in.

Just wanted to say that this thread is brilliant.. GD brilliant.

Very entertaining.

Yeah this top list summary is pretty much spot on in my opinion (assuming by "crash bug" you mean people crashing and score not going to the killer? Because generally the term "crash bug" means a bug that ceases operation of the game and either locks or reboots the console. Which BoP has, but it is very, very rare...)

I only agree with about half of your subjective list, but then it's subjective ;) I'm sure I could think of some to replace them. The no brakes on flightsticks doesn't bother me, but I can't land in sim with the pad aviator layout either because of button conflicts, for instance.

But my argument is - the game is still bloody good fun in spite of these problems. But I guess that is also subjective, and for people that can't see past its problems and have fun with it, I'm sorry for them because they missed out on a great game. But to blame the devs and/or publishers for their negative outlook is, IMO, wrong. They are just throwing back in their faces the dev's hard work, and a gutsy move from the publishers.

And no, I'm not brown-nosing. I just appreciate the blood, sweat and tears that go into these products. Especially as the patch was done without financial backing from the publisher.

Ok then, to save messing around with individual stats, lets just make the P51 use the same stat as the spitfire XVI, granted its not accurate, but it will do! and will make it fun to fly.

not going to happen though mate, we'll just wait and see how it turns out.


patience is a virtue

Same problem, I would think. You would need to alter the P51D's data to use the Spit's Flight Model, which would again mean altering what's on the disc.

However, other games get round problems like this, so I think there is a system where the console has a small internal hard drive used for patches and console updates, and the operating system is coded so that if one version of a file exists on the DVD and there is a different version of this file that has been downloaded as a patch, the console recognises the patch version and ignores the file on the DVD.

This would allow a new Flight Model for the P51 to be included in a patch, allong with new FMs for any other aircraft that needed changes.

not accurate, to say the least. The p51 had nearly twice as much wing loading as the spit, and less power-to-weight ratio. Yet it seems like people expect it to be a dogfighter. That's not where p51 got its reputation.

I think there's 2 reasons why the p51 handles badly: 1st, all of its missions involve ground attack, so for simplicity it was made to react like it's carrying ordnance; 2nd, it wouldn't be a popular plane for online fights, even if it was corrected to leave out the ordnance. In dogfight and team battle, using a plane with a high corner speed generally equals fewer kills. Like bf109 which handles good but has to stay fast. And in airfield capture and strike, people would bring bombs and rockets, so the model would be accurate in that case, but p51 is still not popular in those modes.

That's not saying it's fair that other planes are so easy to fly with ordnance. But I don't see people flying around with a bomb under their spitfire much anyhow.

Thanks
 

Thanks Anton for the update. Looking forward to see the changes.

I understand and accept that many will be very disappointed with the current gameplay flaws and everyone is aware of these by now. Others appreciate that the game is 'acceptable as is' and that there is nothing better available for consloles despite these flaws. The game was designed for a console market and incorporated the Arcade Level in which all the planes were easy to fly and suited the gamepad. Sales for this game have been less than desirable and in hindsight it would have been better to aim it for sim enthusiasts who are stuck with consoles and seem to have the most gripes with it. First, bitching about the flaws is important in order to put pressure on the release of a patch. Continuing to play the game despite these flaws is also important to flag up that we want this game and that it is worth the investment to release any future patches. Both camps have a valuable role to play so bitch all you like but play the game too.......................we are all winners that way.

I can say without question The M00ps is in agreement on this, I fly with him every week. The items on his list are things we discuss regularly, but at the same time we are talking about it while we are flying and having a blast.


+1

What makes me laugh are the folks that have said on more than one occasion that they are selling their disk, console, car, house, dog, wife or whatever else and are never posting again yet they continue to come on here and rant and rave. I can't understand why people get enjoyment out of telling us we are wrong, or calling people brown nosers, butt kissers, derrier sniffers and other creative names for loving this game. If they are fed up with it fine, understandable, but leave those of us who still enjoy it to play and discuss it in peace.

Sales must have been good enough for 505 to commission a sequel. So they at least made a profit.

It's the people that moan like spoilt children they are throwing away their copy (be it trade-in or taking a drill to it like that video), and/or that claim they are never buying another 505/Gaijin product again that the community doesn't need.

They hurt both this game, when people with sense come to the forums to see if the game has serious problems that render it unplayable before they buy it, and the prospect of future such games. Hence the volatile dichotomy in the community.

PS peeps will have thier patch soon and be mighty interesting to see how their threads evolve once its released with the option to use PC joysticks. Glad to hear a sequel is planned. I like this game so much might just have to buy a PS3........and no MS gold membership required for MP either so lets bitch about MS for a change, can we have PC joysticks MS otherwise I'm switching, your loss not mine? (there you go....a MS Bitch and not one aimed at 505 or the Devs......makes a change)........:grin:

P-51 could do it all, nobody would want to use it online?? The majority of the people who bought this game are American and would love to use an American plane for a change... the Spitfire could slightly outmanuever a p-51 down low, but to say that the p-51 wasn't a dogfighter is the most ignorant statement I've read on here, look at the kills on record, look at it's specs, and read the accounts of ace p51 pilots, dumb American basher.

The Mustang wasn't invincible like most people think, but it certainly was better than it is here.

Anyone notice how terribly slow the planes are in-game? Spitfire IX could hit 300 mph at sea level (military power) after just 30 seconds with the P-51D and B hitting 300 mph before 30 seconds of straight line acceleration!

Mike Williams, one holds some of the most reliable documents online. Working at the Canadian Air and Space Museum in Canada, I had access to the many archives of information they had.

Both sources suggest the Spitfire's performance it straight level speed is inconsistent in this game.

The P-51B/D could each hit about 350 mph at sea level on MILITARY power, WEP is another story. In this game I find that the P-51D has been degraded to just about 300 and that's with WEP after 40 seconds of acceleration.

Something's up and it needs to be fixed.

I thought I might get a fanboy flame... the p51 enjoyed heavy numerical superiority from the time it entered service, and it was usually used in the escort role, which is a high-speed running battle, NOT an anchored dogfight.

The p51's specs show its wing loading in the high 30's, whereas the spit's loading is in the low 20's. Its thrust to weight ratio is only 0.18 hp/lb. It was fast because of other factors like low drag.

Since you apparently respect only Americans, here's what Robert Shaw the Navy expert says about low wing loading:

"The low-wing-loaded fighter's greatest performance advantages are
assumed to be good instantaneous turn performance, slow minimum
speed, and a tight sustained turn radius. In some cases this aircraft also
might have a significant sustained-turn-rate advantage. Its weaknesses
include inferior climb and acceleration performance under low-G condi-
tions, and slower "top-end" speed."

Why could the p51 fight German fighters in anchored fights? Because the bf109's wing loading was also in the high 30's, and the fw190 was even higher. The fights were mostly at high speed, where all 3 planes maneuvered best. Though none were great low-speed turners, that didn't matter if they were fighting each other at low speed since they all shared the same disadvantage. The German planes did usually have a higher t/w ratio which was incentive for them to keep the fights faster.

If a p51 were to get itself into a descending, decelerating battle with a spitfire, hurricane, zero or la-5, one on one, it would be at a major disadvantage. It could BnZ them, but that's not a dogfight. 2 p51's vs 1 spitfire, different story. A 2 to 1 advantage is huge for any kind of plane.

also if the success of the pilots is what makes a plane a great dogfighter, you'd have to call the bf109 the greatest dogfighter ever since the top 100 aces of ww2 mostly flew it. It was a good fighter, but not a "dogfighter." Not like a spitfire or a zero.

If the p51 were updated with a "fighting" model, it would handle more like a fw190, though a bit less agile because of the lower t/w. Guess what, the fw190 isn't popular online either.

If there were an "escort" mode where one side has to defend bombers and the other side has to attack them, then people would use the fast planes. But again, that's not a dogfight.

I want this!

Signed,

A P-51 and FW-190 fanboy. :P

;)

The P51's high wing loading has alot do with it's high fuel load on takeoffs, at the merge, where p51's would dogfight at, they were more than apt, and also the p51s low drag made up for it's high weight even the fuel used up, there are many accounts of p51s being outnumbered and taking down 4 and 5 planes, just because it wasn't as good as the spitfire down low doesn't mean that it wasn't a dogfighter, depends on the pilots and other factors, but for this game to make it a complete dog and you to defend their reasoning is poor, you should be able to pick it up in this game and do just as well if not better than the g6 and k4.

And the way you wrote your comment you were begging for a "fanboy flame". I hope they fix the speed problems of the p51 in the patch too, barely over 300 after 30 seconds of WEP is pisssss poor. WTF devs? 6 months of beta testing and you can't even get the top speeds right on realistic and sim? What were they beta testing? How good the graphics looked across demographic upbringings? LOL.

It's a good game, obviously I wouldn't be on here with such passion if I didn't like it, so piss off people saying if you critique the game you should leave this forum and sell your game.

The game is a tease and with the minor tweaks and fine adjustments, it could have been twice as good and that's what pisses me off the most, let's hope the patch is sooooooooooooooooooooooooon, before we rip each other apart. I've never said the game was unplayable, so stop cussing saying that shit.

Um, what do you call it when the escorters engage the bogeys??

not to split hairs, but air battles were called "dogfights" when the planes turned repeatedly around each other, like two dogs going after each other's throats. That's still what people usually mean when they say dogfight, after-the-pass ACM using high-g turns.

An intercept-vs-escort engagement isn't usually like that. Since the objective is the bombers on both sides, neither side can use much high-g or they'll lose contact with the objective.

The fw-190 usually tried to avoid p51's entirely, attacking from the front and extending away before they could be engaged.

"Escort/intercept" would be a great addition to patch 2.0. They could even have the bombers flown by AI. I like the dogfight mode but the slow-motion furballs of hurricanes and spitfires gets boring. Defending a bomber from another player would be a greater challenge. It might work in strike mode, but nobody ever plays it.

i did i traded in il2 and ofpdragon rising the two biggest letdowns of the year and brought dragon age origins and it worked great not experianced any probs playing it so far apart from its bloody hard :grin: i hate dwarfs (fantasy type not rl ones) :evil:

Dragon Age: Origins is amazing. What difficulty are you playing on? I'm using a Dalish elf on regualr and holy hell it's hard...

[QUOTE=kozzm0;If there were an "escort" mode where one side has to defend bombers and the other side has to attack them, then people would use the fast planes. But again, that's not a dogfight.[/QUOTE]

Yes. That game mode is really a no-brainer. I thought this was a MP mode in Heroes over Europe.

But to be fair, that is offline only which is much easier for developers to get right. Having said that, I don't know what platform you are on, but Dragon Age is also not without it's problems (on PS3):

Source.

Sound familiar? People just choose to hate on IL2 (and Dragon Rising) more simply because they had higher expectations, not because the game is any more broken than other games.

(And there's plenty more for Dragon Age.)

hmm well on 360 i havnt experianced any of those problems
as for framerates i cant comment as so far ive only been in small scale battles

not had a single glitch yet

as for the bodys taking ages to register i think i might have the solution i thought the same but then i realised that if you loot the first body that you killed then it lets you loot the next etc i dont know why but it does

and i guess your right about the offline comment

yea i had high expectations for dragon rising for sure i mean me and house even defended the game to death on this forum against an onslaught of cod fanboys witch hurt even more when you finialy get the game and find out that you have been lied to
ie: no freeroam
no hop into a vehicle like you were led to belive yea for sure there were vehicles but they were few and far between apart from hummers and chinese jeeps

multiplayer was good at first but you soon discover the flaws i mean the first game online i played the mission where you are the chinese in the back of the truck i jumped out with my squad and the truck drives off and there hanging in the air was a nice neat double line of rifles floating in the air MATRIX style ???

then there is the multiplayer issue of bullit sponges i unloaded my entire ammo load into an enermy soldier to no avail thats five reloads and full mags to the head i mean the guy would be like swiss cheese lol
so yea i was a bit dissapointed to say the least :-P


anyway ive traded in il2 so it no longer is getting on me nerves waiting for the patch so it dont bother me anymore
but i will still come on here to talk to the great guys ive met and played with i just wont be bashing the game ,devs ,publishers etc anymore i mean there would be no point i dont even own the game anymore

also if the [patch does come and the multiplayer experiance is raised from the dead (360 ver.) i might go and buy a secondhand copy :grin:




just checked that thread you posted and that is for dragon age pc version ?? did that come out before the console versions ?? they might of had time to fix the bugs before releasing on consoles?
anyway im gonna do a review once ive compleated the storyline im doing for house and if there are any bugs clitches etc i will tell you guys it will be a honest review

im doing the human noble storyline on regular and yea its hard as hell lol :grin:

i agree its amazing :grin:

Selling a game for a third of what you paid for it and then buying a used copy for twice what you sold it for is less annoying than just not playing it until the patch comes? Okay then...

like i said i would only buy a copy if the manage to ressurect the now dead 360 online community maybe and i actually got more money for il2 than i payed for it :-P

WTF? How? lol

sold it to me cousin for 25 quid he only wanted to play it offline and i told him about how some of the planes are not as good as they supposed to be and all but he said he wanted it and offered me 25 notes he is a ww2 nut so i guess thats why he wanted it so bad :confused:

i only paid 24 quid minus 10% discount from work for it

oh and have you fought the broodmother in deadtrenches yet the fat repulsive bob keeps kicking my butt everytime :mad: lol

LOL, I'm heading there now. I saw my friend beat her though, and it looked hard as hell. Try using a Ranger/Mage.

But trust me, that's one of the easier bosses... Have you done "Sacred Ashes" yet?

i just killed the demon and saved the kid mission im on the sacred ashes quest now to save the kids father thats in a coma lol i guess its gonna be hard then lol :grin:

with you 100% Daz, gutting :)