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-   -   Friday 2009-10-23 Screenshots Update discussion thread (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=10702)

FS~Hawks 10-24-2009 07:24 AM

Well done the pic's look really grate and i cant wait to jump in and fly around for a look.

Well done good job and good to see you.

rakinroll 10-24-2009 08:00 AM

Man, those ground details very good. Thanks...

luthier 10-24-2009 08:16 AM

The switch away from Open GL took place a while ago. There had been two camps at Maddox Games, the pro-OpenGL camp and the pro-DirectX camp, for a while. Eventually the arguments of the pro-DirectX camp won over, so the switch was made. It wasn't a particularly dramatic event, just a logical evolution of opinion based on a bunch of boring technical details.


Regarding the colors, once again, this is work in progress. Oleg specifically said that it's being worked on, that it's not final. So please think of it as a glass half full.

A lot of features go through this annoying development phase where it takes forever to get them perfect. It can take 3 days to build a feature to 90%, and a month to get it to 100. That's where we are with the visuals. It's a hugely complex system with lots of components, each at a different stage of completion, so at this particular time it happens to result in the picture we're seeing right now. Glass half full, guys, glass half full.

A bunch of smart, talented, experienced people are coming to work every day to work on the graphics. Oleg is constantly breathing down their necks and hounding them over each tiny detail. The visuals are a HUGE priority for him personally, huge. Have a little faith in the man.

Feuerfalke 10-24-2009 08:40 AM

You can see it's WIP in several areas, but it's VERY promising IMHO.

Of course some colors look to bright, the textures too blury, especially at some distance, but if you take a look at picture 0116, you'll notice there's barely any atmosphere rendered at all beyond the clouds. You can see the sharp horizon in between the clouds.
Once haze is enabled and set up correctly, it will probably blend colors and textures nicely.

IMHO it's even more obvious looking at the Spitfire and the Bf110. It's simply some layers switched on and off. While the Bf110 shows the reflections and bumpmaps, the Spitfire has switched those off and shows how detailed the textures are.

Long story short: The screenshots are not what the game will look like, but what makes the differences.
That's also true for the trees - it doesn't mean they will stay like that, but rather like: "hey, we don't use layered textures to show forests, but individual trees!"

dflion 10-24-2009 08:40 AM

Well said Ilya (luthier)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 113731)
A bunch of smart, talented, experienced people are coming to work every day to work on the graphics. Oleg is constantly breathing down their necks and hounding them over each tiny detail. The visuals are a HUGE priority for him personally, huge. Have a little faith in the man.

Well said Ilya, I can really understand Oleg's 'attention to detail with the visuals', he wants the 'best of the best' and a flight sim that will last into the future.

Keep up the outstanding work.

DFLion

Chivas 10-24-2009 08:47 AM

Thanks Luthier...Visuals are very important to me aswell. You can have the best FM possible but if it doesn't look right, it kills it for me.

I can't imagine how difficult it is to bring all these features {FM, DM, AI, Moving Weather Patterns, Cinematic Terrain, and aircraft } together with playable frame rates.

SlipBall 10-24-2009 10:19 AM

luthier(quote)
The screenshots were taken on several computers, mostly on an Intel Core 2 2.66GHz with 2 Gigs of RAM and an NVidia 8800 GTX and a Athlon 64 3800+ 2.0 GHz with 2 Gigs of RAM and an NVidia 260




Did the Athlon system have a desent frame rate? I ask because I'm running a slightly stronger Athlon system now...and it would be nice to not have to do an up-grade

Tree_UK 10-24-2009 10:47 AM

Oleg do you plan to show any 'In game' shots of SOW in the near future, for example a formation of heinkels or a screen shot of a dogfight over England, something where we can get a true picture of what your creating. I know you said these recent screens were 'in game' but they appear to be WIP shots rather than shots taken from a running game.

Many Thanks.

SlipBall 10-24-2009 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree_UK (Post 113747)
Oleg do you plan to show any 'In game' shots of SOW in the near future, for example a formation of heinkels or a screen shot of a dogfight over England, something where we can get a true picture of what your creating. I know you said these recent screens were 'in game' but they appear to be WIP shots rather than shots taken from a running game.

Many Thanks.


?...they seem to all have (grab) in file name...I think that they are in-game shots

Tree_UK 10-24-2009 10:57 AM

oh ok, I meant from the battle of britian aspect the original concept of the sim.

Lucas_From_Hell 10-24-2009 10:57 AM

EDIT: Nevermind.

Well, got your point, Tree.

There was a 110 and a Spitfire. I'm happy with just that :mrgreen:

But yes, I would also love seeing those Heinkels all around (but I don't know if the computers used would hold it steady with some 100 bombers and gunners and bombs and England and everything else).

As someone said, there's one thing I would really love to see: the shadow of a 109 over that Spitfire cockpit. THAT would be awesome.

Tree_UK 10-24-2009 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell (Post 113750)
"Let there be whining: And there was whining." :rolleyes:

Ok edited my reply, i'm glad you can see what i'm asking.

SlipBall 10-24-2009 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree_UK (Post 113749)
oh ok, I meant from the battle of britian aspect the original concept of the sim.


Yes I would like to see England from above as well

Lucas_From_Hell 10-24-2009 11:02 AM

Misunderstood you on the first post, sorry. Already edited it :grin:.

It's just that your comment sounded a bit strange at first, but then you clarified it.

EDIT: I'll stop editing, we're both writing way too quickly here :mrgreen:

Tree_UK 10-24-2009 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell (Post 113754)
Misunderstood you on the first post, sorry. Already edited it :grin:.

It's just that your comment sounded a bit strange at first, but then you clarified it.

EDIT: I'll stop editing, we're both writing way too quickly here :mrgreen:

No worries Lucas. :grin:

Flyby 10-24-2009 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke (Post 113722)
Considering the possibilities especially of DX10 and 11, this is the better choice to make full use of modern hardware. As I and some other people posted before, some things are also a lot easier to accomplish under DX. DX10 and 11 have native support of multiple CPUs and GPUs and can also render more efficiently to multiple-monitor-setups than the simple desktop spreading of XP. Of course you can do the same under OpenGL, but it's simply more work, which means precious time that can now be used for more important tasks.

Aha!! As I suspected! It was educational. :D Thanks Feuerfalke.
Flyby out

jctrnacty 10-24-2009 11:48 AM

I have a bad feeling, that this game will take rest of my free time :grin:

I Hope they will support DX11 as it is DX brakethrough like DX 9 was.

Lucas_From_Hell 10-24-2009 11:50 AM

Going a bit off-topic, is DX 11 already out, and what's actually that different between it and older versions?

luthier 10-24-2009 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlipBall (Post 113743)
luthier(quote)
Did the Athlon system have a desent frame rate? I ask because I'm running a slightly stronger Athlon system now...and it would be nice to not have to do an up-grade

It's way too early to gauge frame rates and specs. Many things that will be eating up FPS in the final release aren't yet running at full capacity. Most others are yet to be optimized, meaning they're eating up more FPS than they will in the release.

The framerate we get on these specs today doesn't matter. No one can guess now at the framerate we will have in the release under what graphic settings. I could say what framerate we hope to have on this machine in the release, but a lot of people have a very twisted idea of what Work In Progress means, so I won't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlipBall (Post 113748)
?...they seem to all have (grab) in file name...I think that they are in-game shots

They are indeed. The build is very stable and there's a lot more going on that what you see on the screenshots.

Lemmi 10-24-2009 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke (Post 113722)
Considering the possibilities especially of DX10 and 11, this is the better choice to make full use of modern hardware. As I and some other people posted before, some things are also a lot easier to accomplish under DX. DX10 and 11 have native support of multiple CPUs and GPUs and can also render more efficiently to multiple-monitor-setups than the simple desktop spreading of XP. Of course you can do the same under OpenGL, but it's simply more work, which means precious time that can now be used for more important tasks.

But this means i have to switch to vista or 7, (which is probably the same except for DX) and this is a big MINUS for me.

tagTaken2 10-24-2009 12:52 PM

A promising start to what I hope will be regular updates. There's been a couple of great sims come out recently, and I'd wondered if maybe subject matter of BoB might be a bit tired, but the moment that first Spitfire cockpit shot opened, I've got all my previous excitement back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 113765)
It's way too early to gauge frame rates and specs. Many things that will be eating up FPS in the final release aren't yet running at full capacity. Most others are yet to be optimized, meaning they're eating up more FPS than they will in the release.

Il-2 seemed to be pretty optimized code, have faith that BoB will be scalable in terms of graphics. Either way, I've got $1500 set aside specifically for new PC on release :)

zapatista 10-24-2009 12:59 PM

Hi Oleg,

thx for the new screenshots, it's great to see the work in progress

the spitfire cockpit looks amazing !!

this shot interests me the most, with a low flying aircraft looking down at a road (altitude +/- 250 meters ?)
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0126.jpg

in real life from a small aircraft at 1500 meters above an open road you can still see individual cars clearly standing out as moving or stationary object on the open road. this is historically what ww2 pilots reports they used in hunting for ground targets, and anybody in real life can easily confirm this by flying in a small aircraft over a road (as i am sure you have many times)

in il2 this has sadly been a big weakness, and you have to be at +/- 250 meters altitude to have a hope of spotting a truck or tank. this means you have to fly MUCH lower and slower then in real life to spot or track your ground targets (giving you much less visibility to the sector you cover, and more vulnerable to ground fire)

could you PLEASE keep this in mind with BoB as you finalize the tank/truck distant LoD models, and compensate for a flat 2D pc screen trying to model a distant 3D object by making these smallest LoD models stand out more against the background textures (instead of blending in to much) ?

the new ground vehicles look great in closeup right now, but we will need to be able to see them from 1200 to 1500 meters to :)

Feuerfalke 10-24-2009 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemmi (Post 113769)
But this means i have to switch to vista or 7, (which is probably the same except for DX) and this is a big MINUS for me.

If you want to benefit from multiple cores you have to do that anyway. ;)

Insuber 10-24-2009 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 113765)
It's way too early to gauge frame rates and specs. Many things that will be eating up FPS in the final release aren't yet running at full capacity. Most others are yet to be optimized, meaning they're eating up more FPS than they will in the release.

The framerate we get on these specs today doesn't matter. No one can guess now at the framerate we will have in the release under what graphic settings. I could say what framerate we hope to have on this machine in the release, but a lot of people have a very twisted idea of what Work In Progress means, so I won't.



They are indeed. The build is very stable and there's a lot more going on that what you see on the screenshots.

Luthier,

I really appreciate your answers, thank you for taking the time. I liked most of the pics, and particularly the lighting fx and the shadows.

The Spit cockpit is incredible, I've never seen such a photorealistic object in a flight sim ... it makes even the Il-2 best cockpits look shamefully poor. The workload on the game programmers must be enormous, I can better understand now why so much time to develop BoB ...

Ground objects are very detailed, but the wooden surfaces (e.g. control tower) are not too natural, they need improved texture/color IMHO. The control barrack is beatiful, with objects inside, with their shadows and lights.

The truck below the tree shadows of pic110, with light spots from branches, is gorgeous ... I can't imagine how CPU consuming is it though, if it will dynamically updated.

I noticed that clouds are of different types and height in the same area, is the weather system dynamic ?

Smoke looks greatly improved from Il-2, is there some sort of particle management ?

Planes are good, rivets and doorbays and all ... too good if they will be the same in-game.

Terrain is VERY WIP IMHO ... so no comment on that. But trees look promising.


For a WIP it looks promising indeed. Keep up the good work, it looks like you're closer to the goal.

Best regards,
Insuber

Flyby 10-24-2009 01:37 PM

a small DX11 video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell (Post 113764)
Going a bit off-topic, is DX 11 already out, and what's actually that different between it and older versions?

I found this DX11 vidoe link over at [H]ard OCP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F6zSgtRnkE
what do you think of DX11?
Flyby out

Lucas_From_Hell 10-24-2009 02:04 PM

Holy ****!

It looks awesome!!

But it somehow remembered the graphics of Brothers In Arms: Hell's Highway.

jctrnacty 10-24-2009 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell (Post 113764)
Going a bit off-topic, is DX 11 already out, and what's actually that different between it and older versions?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3507

Avimimus 10-24-2009 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECV56_Lancelot (Post 113613)
My questios would be:

1) All the trees will be collidable?

2) Seccond the question about seeing the hull of a ship below the waterline, or a submarin close to the surface?. It would be cool to be able to have partial sunken ships near the shores, with most of the ship below the waterline. :)

3) The drums. Are they individual drums put together or a single object all together?. Would they explode, burn when shot or bombed?
Or even thrown away if a bomb falls and explodes near by? Physics engine i'm asking here? Something like we see on todays FPS.

4) Great model of the engish fuel truck. Is there a similar model with the hose deployed to put them near an aircraft and make it look like its chargin fuel?. I know this is too much :D

5) Finally some serious smoke column on the 0147 pic :), not the classic thin cigarret smoke column we are all get used to on out beloved simulators :(

6) Something that seems nobody notice? We have CURVES ON ROADS
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0126.jpg

Is this mean no more of the old angular "elbows" on the roads like we have on il-2?
Also we will be able to have moving vehicles inside the forest?

7) A wish for an update comment. Will there be more complex damage model on bridges?. Not just one bomb near by and bye bye bridge?

Looking foward to the next update ;).

I hope you don't mind, but I think I remember answers to a few of these:

2) Underwater will be modelled (ongoing jokes about Oleg doing a diving photography sim aside)

3) An interview a year or so ago reported tests of the physics engine which showed barrels being blown by a shockwave and bouncing off a wire fence. However, if you look closely the two nine barrel packets have identical rotations for the barrels - so they are placed as a single object at least. My guess is that the engine has more capabilities than we will see (or have the processing power to run) in the initial release. Maybe, Luthier or Oleg could drop a hint?

6) Yes, curved roads (and railroads) have been confirmed for a couple of years. :D Oleg, is also using a new system that encodes some information for the AI as part of the texture map pixels - so tanks will be able to know how to go between trees and head down those little English footpaths (possible in theory at least).

As for the others, I have no idea. I've heard the some larger ground objects will have more than two damage states but that most buildings will be simplified considerably when compared to vehicles. I for one would love to see a more advanced damage model for bridges, trains and ships.

It would make a good update. Fingers crossed ;)

JVM 10-24-2009 03:40 PM

Hello Oleg!

Thanks for this much expected update!

I loves everything in it knowing that it is by no means final...however I am (just) a bit worried:
Some of the cloud renditions are beautiful mainly by virtue of lighting and certain nice cloud shapes use (central part of 130) but as far as images 101, 111, 116 & 131 are concerned am I mistaken or are we still in the IL2-type last generation clouds?

I am too much of a RL pilot not to be overly sensitive to and knowledgeable about the cloud shapes, textures and sheer beauty...
No simulation so far has ever been able to render proper clouds, of which bases are most often flat and shapes very sharply defined and complex from afar and becoming fuzzy on closing range...The clouds shown are OK on the last criteria, completely wrong on the first (cotton ball effect against cauliflower effect to summarize drastically)!

I am absolutely persuaded you know very well about this and I just would like to be confirmed that the cloud/weather part is the one visuals-related topic you will want to keep veiled until very late in order to blow everyone (and RL pilots, and FSX simmers, and...and...!) out!

Thanks again you and your team for your work!

JV Masset

zakkandrachoff 10-24-2009 04:13 PM

someone know how is the link to the Oleg full gallery?
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4503/grab0004h.jpg

is in http://forums.games.1c.ru/ buth i dont know russian languaje.
i junt want see a little more. nothing more...;)

Bearcat 10-24-2009 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke (Post 113385)
As you posted, they did in IL2 - why should they abandon that?

I didn't find the cockpit shadows-video in the news, but there are two videos that show dynamic daylight lighting in the editor.

True.. but to tell the truth.. I never noticed the shadows move.. Maybe it is because even in long missions I am basically on a flat area or the ToD is closer to noon and I just didn't see it...

Necrobaron 10-24-2009 09:31 PM

Very nice, gentlemen!
________
1YoungGerda

mazex 10-24-2009 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakkandrachoff (Post 113827)
someone know how is the link to the Oleg full gallery?
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4503/grab0004h.jpg

is in http://forums.games.1c.ru/ buth i dont know russian languaje.
i junt want see a little more. nothing more...;)

Nice find! This image is better than any of the ones posted here! Me like!

A nice thing while reading stuff into this image, there must be a plane behind him firing as the damage seems to have occurred in the air (viewing the messages about damage and time compression etc)... They are at least firing on each other in the air then, and damage occurs to different sub systems like it should...

/Mazex

Flyby 10-24-2009 10:14 PM

might as well ask now
 
Oleg,
1- Once (or even before) Sow_BoB goes into beta testing, will the testers be allowed to post in-game videos as was done with DCS Black Shark? Screen shots are ok, but a video goes a long way.
2- Can we have a few screen shots depicting multiple aircraft over either French or English territory, or even over the Channel (from an altitude of about 4k meters)?

if ya don't ask, they can't tell ya "no". ;)
Flyby out

Abbeville-Boy 10-24-2009 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakkandrachoff (Post 113827)
someone know how is the link to the Oleg full gallery?
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4503/grab0004h.jpg

is in http://forums.games.1c.ru/ buth i dont know russian languaje.
i junt want see a little more. nothing more...;)




no sand beach = no swimsuit women:mad:

airguitarist 10-25-2009 12:15 AM

Any idea about support for ATI's Eyefinity
 
The prospect of using eyefinity with this game is very appealing, any chance it's supported?

Also which DirectX versions can we expect to be supported?

zakkandrachoff 10-25-2009 01:40 AM

are that 3 pics,
i cant find any more
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5598/grab0003t.jpg

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/184/grab0000e.jpg

krz9000 10-25-2009 02:06 AM

the attentionspan in this forum seems to be even shorter then on youtube, doh.

first: oleg tells us that the colors are to be tweaked...and then i see one post after another that the colors are ALL WRONG. why so many people these days need to open their mouth if they have nothing to say.

this update is clearly an engine demo and not to show off the recreation of britian in its true colors.

you should point your attention to:

- normalmaped landscape and game objects
- hdri lighting
- (hardware) geometry instances (trees, grass)
- lots of cloud particles
- great attention to details from the modelling team
- curved roads (based on projected splines?)
- landclasses for terrain?
- realtime shadows with self-shadowing even on alphatextured geo (grass)
- great view-distance
- clever LODs (e.g. grass only visible when it makes sense)

hdri lighting alows for great lighting changes and affects the complete scene. at sunset everything gets a orange hue, at noon a more blueish look.

seems like there are also post-fx like object-based motion-blur. (camera motion-blur too?)
add in some vignetting and a DOF and things will look very good.

dont let youself be fooled by the crazy colors you see here. the features that make a great render are all there it seems...and this is much more important then to show a landscape that looks like britain. (content can be done by the comunity if it might suck,...the core engine not)

so lets be happy and not fall for pointless topics/wishes like vegetation grow based on weather data...doh, its nice to see olegs creation inspire people but wishes should stay reasonable i think. the holodeck is not around the corner...and oleg is not trying to build it anyway.

my questions:

- do clouds cast realtime shadows
- will there be volumetric effects? (sunbeams through clouds,...)
- do you plan to show lots of situationbased post fx e.g. wounds that cause blurred/darker/reddish vision or stronger vignetting, stronger blurring of the vignette with higher speeds?
- are instanced geometries collisionobjects (trees)


ps: i created a google wave for STORM OF WAR you can find it by searching for "group:storm-of-war@googlegroups.com"

Desode 10-25-2009 03:44 AM

I just want to start by saying Thanks Oleg for these screen shots, it looks like its really going to be yet another great sim.

As for my question, I understand you have always made your games to be able to run on different levels of pc's and that is a wonderful thing and I'm sure this one will be no different.
However,
My question is, does the game engine have the abilty to specifically take full advantage of a quad pc ? I know a few of the next gen game engines are being designed to take full advantage of a quad core processor, so I'm wondering if this new game engine is designed with that in mind also ?


Keep up the Great work ! DESODE

PVT.Roger 10-25-2009 09:29 AM

Thanks for the update Oleg. The Spit cockpit surpassed any idea I had of what we would be getting. Incredible detail.

I'll be looking forward to the weekly update. It'll be fun to see how the game changes over the next year as you build to the release.

:grin:

PR

mazex 10-25-2009 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakkandrachoff (Post 113904)
are that 3 pics,
i cant find any more
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5598/grab0003t.jpg

Nice! That looks like the same village as back in 2007 (?) - but it has evolved! Love the smoke from the chimneys and the shadows cast by the 3D objects. Not sure if I like the blur effect, but that is hard to judge on a still picture. The houses are also to light I think? The shadow side of a red brick English home should be rather dark on an image like this I think (at least it would look good I think). All such things are naturally WIP, but hey, this is a comment thread for the pics so... After they have tuned the colors and shading bit and added some additional effects (haze etc) it will be even better!

/Mazex

Reisman 10-25-2009 10:43 AM

The cockpit, planes, ground vehicles and clouds look great. Water/beach doesn't look as good as in that early video and the ground detail/lighting isn't on par with Birds of Prey yet but this is still WIP so I know that'll change. My only concern is if the other maps have flat terrain like this one, but I guess they don't...

Big thanks for the update, keep up the good work!

Bloblast 10-25-2009 11:05 AM

Aircraft look fantastic absolutely the best in the business.

But for the colours used for ground and ground objects I have my doubts.
And I wonder how London will look like in the game.

In comparison with other games:

IL-2 Birds of prey, the ground of this game is really good:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...rey-200904.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...sOfPrey_05.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/bloblast/0031.jpg

New game from ??? posted on SimHQ:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/bloblast/Shot3.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/bloblast/Shot7.jpg

Insuber 10-25-2009 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krz9000 (Post 113919)
the attentionspan in this forum seems to be even shorter then on youtube, doh.

first: oleg tells us that the colors are to be tweaked...and then i see one post after another that the colors are ALL WRONG. why so many people these days need to open their mouth if they have nothing to say.

this update is clearly an engine demo and not to show off the recreation of britian in its true colors.

you should point your attention to:

- normalmaped landscape and game objects
- hdri lighting
- (hardware) geometry instances (trees, grass)
- lots of cloud particles
- great attention to details from the modelling team
- curved roads (based on projected splines?)
- landclasses for terrain?
- realtime shadows with self-shadowing even on alphatextured geo (grass)
- great view-distance
- clever LODs (e.g. grass only visible when it makes sense)

hdri lighting alows for great lighting changes and affects the complete scene. at sunset everything gets a orange hue, at noon a more blueish look.

seems like there are also post-fx like object-based motion-blur. (camera motion-blur too?)
add in some vignetting and a DOF and things will look very good.

dont let youself be fooled by the crazy colors you see here. the features that make a great render are all there it seems...and this is much more important then to show a landscape that looks like britain. (content can be done by the comunity if it might suck,...the core engine not)

so lets be happy and not fall for pointless topics/wishes like vegetation grow based on weather data...doh, its nice to see olegs creation inspire people but wishes should stay reasonable i think. the holodeck is not around the corner...and oleg is not trying to build it anyway.

my questions:

- do clouds cast realtime shadows
- will there be volumetric effects? (sunbeams through clouds,...)
- do you plan to show lots of situationbased post fx e.g. wounds that cause blurred/darker/reddish vision or stronger vignetting, stronger blurring of the vignette with higher speeds?
- are instanced geometries collisionobjects (trees)


ps: i created a google wave for STORM OF WAR you can find it by searching for "group:storm-of-war@googlegroups.com"


+1.

Ins

henriksultan 10-25-2009 12:28 PM

Looking really god Maddox, keep working hard on that game and I can promise you that this is a sure buy :grin:

Thanks for the update! :)

HFC_Dolphin 10-25-2009 01:09 PM

All I can say is that visuals seem fantastic.
This cockpit, oh my, what a joy :)

I'm really looking forward to know more about other important parts of the game ;-)

MorgothNL 10-25-2009 02:06 PM

Its prob just me, but I think this game looks pretty bad :confused:.
I've been playing Il-2 1946 a lot over the years, and lately also some BOP on xbox. I almost preffer the way the 1946 planes look :confused:. When I see the outside picture of the spit, I think it looks strange, it looks like it does not belong in the surroundings and it looks fake.

Also the ground, just looks lame to me. The ground in BOP is insanely great, the ground in 1946 is very basic. But I actually like the 1946 ground more the the sow ground. The sow ground looks like the ground of a old adventure game :confused:.

I'd rather see a BOP port to PC. And after porting, just improve the flight models a bit to be more like 1946.

I reallllly like the first screen of the cockpit:http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0100.jpg

but the 2nd screen just makes me laugh:http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0101.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0126.jpg <-- in those spit exterior screens, you can see every moddel layer or something :S. anyways, I think it just looks weird :S. Also the lighting looks strange

I think I read somewhere that lighting etc was still getting improved? so if thats the case, than by all mean ignore the comments about that


Dont get me wrong, If the gameplay is better than that of 1946, Its the game for me, but the looks of the game kind of anoy me

SlipBall 10-25-2009 02:19 PM

MorgothNL(QUOTE)
but the 2nd screen just makes me laugh:http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0101.jpg



I think that that map is intended to be a on-line furball quick action map...but I understand what you are saying, you are seeking realism, and are a simer at heart, as am I

Lucas_From_Hell 10-25-2009 02:23 PM

Morgoth, that's probably because we've got used to those weathered skins on IL-2. Check Oleg's news topic, it has some pictures showing how weathering will work.

It will look better after some sorties, don't worry :-P.

Plus, if you don't like the defaults, you can make your own skins, as we're used to do on IL-2.

And, at last, it's not even beta, and if I got it right, the graphics are going to look way better than now.

nearmiss 10-25-2009 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlipBall (Post 114040)
MorgothNL(QUOTE)
but the 2nd screen just makes me laugh:http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0101.jpg



I think that that map is intended to be a on-line furball quick action map...but I understand what you are saying, you are seeking realism, and are a simer at heart, as am I

Looks like a scene from Shrek.


http://mediaspin.com/blog/wp-images/shrek3.jpg

MorgothNL 10-25-2009 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell (Post 114042)
And, at last, it's not even beta, and if I got it right, the graphics are going to look way better than now.

thats what im counting on and expecting :). I dont need it to look anywhere near the graphics of BOP. But I just want it to look 'realistic'... not strange like it does now. Like I said 1946 works for me in sense of 'realistic'. Just in the way that it all looks 'correct'... wich the screens of sow do not.

I'll be waiting for new screens, I do hope it is indeed very much pre-beta, and this is just to give us an idea.

mazex 10-25-2009 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloblast (Post 113994)

In comparison with other games:

IL-2 Birds of prey, the ground of this game is really good:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...rey-200904.jpg

Scheisse! Thougt it was a real image at first ;) But the horizon is only a few kilometers away and then you can add a lot of stuff. But still, SoW is a long way from this (and a long way from release too ;)).

Lucas_From_Hell 10-25-2009 02:39 PM

Am I the only one that thinks BoP graphics are too exaggerated? Images are a bit blurry, there's that dark ambient all around it, perfect for a console simulator, aiming for a younger audience, or those fighter pilot romances, but I don't think I would like it on Storm of War. It's supposed to be REAL. Tell me, when you take a plane for vacation, a business meeting or something, the view you get is anything close to what you see in Birds of Prey? It may look good, I agree, but it isn't very photorealistic. I didn't mean to offend anyone, it's just my opinion.

fuzzychickens 10-25-2009 02:40 PM

A port of BOP to PC with nothing but FM fixes would still be about as bad as the console version. They have a lot to fix.

1. The way the difficulty selection is setup sucks (only 3 options).
2. Sim mode is broken because you can just keep checking the map to avoid being bounced
3. No dedicated server option (as in the community being able to setup dedicated servers, not the developer). The multiplayer is just poorly done all around.
4. The damage model in BOP is overdone hollywood style effects - the one in 1946 is still way more satisfying when you tear a plane apart.
5. Scoring in multiplayer - no requirement to RTB to collect full kill points. The requirement in 1946 to RTB improves gameplay. Players fly cap to control airspace over bases for those landing. In BOP, you just fly until your plane explodes.
6. They clearly intend on using one cockpit for all variants of a plane like in BOP. The subtle differences in a series in the interior of planes in 1946 made that game amazing - the attention to detail is part of what makes 1946 enjoyable.

Also keep in mind, this port they are doing will essentially be using a flight model that is around 10 years old. SOW will have a much more advanced flight model.

I'm sure the graphics will be improved and I'm almost certain the textures on the planes are not representative of final versions.

fuzzychickens 10-25-2009 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell (Post 114046)
Am I the only one that thinks BoP graphics are too exaggerated? Images are a bit blurry, there's that dark ambient all around it, perfect for a console simulator, aiming for a younger audience, or those fighter pilot romances, but I don't think I would like it on Storm of War. It's supposed to be REAL. Tell me, when you take a plane for vacation, a business meeting or something, the view you get is anything close to what you see in Birds of Prey? It may look good, I agree, but it isn't very photorealistic. I didn't mean to offend anyone, it's just my opinion.

Good point, the "lighting" is off or something. They should adjust that a bit.

kalimba 10-25-2009 03:03 PM

Why those reactions....?
 
Well, I think this could be one reason why we are a bit ...disapointed...by the new update....
If we compare what we got in the past updates, and what we have now...
The "ingame" objects look , lets say, not as good as the other ones...

Ingame:

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0104.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0106.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0110.jpg

Old updates:

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/vvv-03_01.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/vvv-03_03.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grass.jpg

So it looks like a step backwards....I am not saying it is...But this is what we got after months of waiting...
:rolleyes:

But lets give a chance to Oleg and his team, and cross our fingers !:grin:

Best regards to the IL2 fans...

Pankratz1980 10-25-2009 03:29 PM

Good point.

The cockpit looks simply AMAZING. I mean it, AMAZING - photorealistic.
Models of Spitfire and 110 are very nice, but look a bit like they're made of plastic right now (alpha footage, so that's understandable).
The ground, however, looks very disappointing - but it's WIP, so here's hoping it will look just as good as in Birds of Prey, if not better.

I hope you'll support DX11.

Overall, thank you for the updates, looking forward to future ones.

Feuerfalke 10-25-2009 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalimba (Post 114052)
Well, I think this could be one reason why we are a bit ...disapointed...by the new update....
If we compare what we got in the past updates, and what we have now...
The "ingame" objects look , lets say, not as good as the other ones...

Ingame:

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0104.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0106.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0110.jpg

Old updates:

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/vvv-03_01.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/vvv-03_03.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grass.jpg

So it looks like a step backwards....I am not saying it is...But this is what we got after months of waiting...
:rolleyes:

But lets give a chance to Oleg and his team, and cross our fingers !:grin:

Best regards to the IL2 fans...


The old pictures are taken from editors, the new pictures are taken ingame.

That's no step in any direction, that's two different pairs of shoes.


@ Bloblast screenshot from BoP:

It does look good because of three things:

1. It a finish game, not WIP as SoW.
2. Because of No 1 it has enabled filters, as opposed to the screenshots OM posted.
3. It's concentrated on Hollywoodgraphics.


If you'd strip the filters from BoP, it won't look much different.



But at least you support Oleg in one point he made earlier on: If he'd post pictures from the unfinished product, everyone would complain, because it wouldn't look like the finished product. Seems he knows his community pretty well after all. ;)

CRO_Adriatic 10-25-2009 04:22 PM

Really nice update!
Nice smoke, cliffs, sunset, cockpit, threes, glass reflection, sun, clouds, shadow...

I would like that from cliffs to water are only 1-3 meter of ground , and also rock terrain, but ok if it is imagined as sand beach...

Cockpit is too good. If you ask me, weather model is more important than visual, but to sell it, it haves to look great, I hope you will find some middle point of that :)

kalimba 10-25-2009 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke (Post 114074)
The old pictures are taken from editors, the new pictures are taken ingame.

That's no step in any direction, that's two different pairs of shoes.


That is true...So ? Still, the editor pictures look better than the ingame...
And we all assume that the ingame should be as good or even better ...Don't we? Look at the cockpits...They do look as good....:cool:

So, if your are talking shoes now, beeing married for 16 years, I can assure you that you would NEVER persuade your wife that the cheapest pair does look as good as the expensive ones by saying: Honey, it's not that they're not looking as good, they are just different pairs of shoes....";)

Salute !

Tree_UK 10-25-2009 04:59 PM

Guys we really shouldn't pass any judgement on what we have seen so far, they are just some examples that Oleg has posted to show that work is in progress, obviously like feuerfalke has said there is more work to do, I dont think for one minute that the landscape we are currently seeing is anything like finished. Concentrate on the Spit cockpit - wonderful.

SlipBall 10-25-2009 05:26 PM

As someone who has spent his whole life approaching land from the sea, a sand beach is a necessity to look realistic...more white paint Oleg:-P

mazex 10-25-2009 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell (Post 114046)
Am I the only one that thinks BoP graphics are too exaggerated? Images are a bit blurry, there's that dark ambient all around it, perfect for a console simulator, aiming for a younger audience, or those fighter pilot romances, but I don't think I would like it on Storm of War. It's supposed to be REAL. Tell me, when you take a plane for vacation, a business meeting or something, the view you get is anything close to what you see in Birds of Prey? It may look good, I agree, but it isn't very photorealistic. I didn't mean to offend anyone, it's just my opinion.

I agree, they are using a too broad pencil while drawing - but that's the whole console concept... Larger than life. We nerds just want it as dull as it is IRL ;) (but not duller like Dragon Rising!)

kalimba 10-25-2009 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree_UK (Post 114087)
Guys we really shouldn't pass any judgement on what we have seen so far, they are just some examples that Oleg has posted to show that work is in progress, obviously like feuerfalke has said there is more work to do, I dont think for one minute that the landscape we are currently seeing is anything like finished. Concentrate on the Spit cockpit - wonderful.


You are absolutely right. I am very confident that the finished game will look superb. I have great respect for Oleg and his team.
I was just surprised by the number of negative responses following the new update, and wondered why.
So my conclusion was that we were used to get, during the last 2 years, very nice looking screens from planes, terrain and objects. I compared the new screens with the ones we had seen for sooooo long and found that the quality was...hum...:confused: different. That could explain the "emotionnal " reaction :(.......Otherwise, we would have had only positive reactions...Would'nt we ?;)
So lets move on and wait till Oleg says " Its finnished ! " Then , and only then
we will be able so criticize his work...
Salute !

philip.ed 10-25-2009 08:44 PM

+1 kalimba ;)

BadAim 10-25-2009 10:03 PM

I agree, it's only natural that the first in-game shots will be less than those taken from the rendering engine, especially when you consider the machines used for the shots. They are in no way representative of the best that will be available to us when BOB comes out. It's way easier for a 'puter to display a static render in it's creation engine than in a dynamic game engine.

As many have pointed out, check out the really cool new features like self shadowing, and the attention to detail and let the rendering stuff like color saturation slide..... those will be fixed as the game progresses.

Above all......"patience grasshopper......"

airmalik 10-26-2009 01:38 AM

Appreciate the update Oleg.

A big immersion killer for me is the smeared oil paint look of the ground textures present in all sims. No matter how detailed the object placed on it, it looks fake and loses any sense of scale. Do you have any tricks up your sleeve to improve this? Some sort of procedural 'roughening' of textures as when you view them up close?

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 06:04 AM

We don't pan to have cartoon picture like on this shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakkandrachoff (Post 113340)
Hi Oleg, very very nice job
BF110 was fantastic, and cockpit spit too!!!!

buth, terrain... i dont know...
i expect some like birds of prey terrain
http://canalgame.com/images/Image/OL...ds+Of+Prey.jpg

buth very nice job on the planes!!! is amazing


Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmano (Post 113311)
Cockpit and planes look nice. Little bit of anti-aliasing and they should look great.
Colors for the ground where quite bright.

Does the multisample anti-aliasing work in SOW for the water edges, cockpit gauges and other places where it didnt work in IL2 ? Supersampling works in IL2 but its rather heavy.

There is HDR (High Dynamoc Range) and several new modernest technologies that are in contradiction with anti-aliasing

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jctrnacty (Post 113763)
I have a bad feeling, that this game will take rest of my free time :grin:

I Hope they will support DX11 as it is DX brakethrough like DX 9 was.

Currently for DX9, DX10 and DX11 in all of them there are difference in graphics

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZaltysZ (Post 113316)
It seems No AA was used and probably no (or too little) AF. It is likely that with higher AF, landscape textures will look way sharper. Now they are too blurry.

Question to Oleg:
Currently market of LCDs is getting flooded with wide gamut displays and they show too saturated colors in non color managed environment. If I recall correctly, OpenGL has extension which lets to use color management on textures. Maybe it is possible to make this extension available as optional, so that owners of wide gamut LCDs could play with exact colors this game was intended to be played?

NEW LCD types are not too saturated... real thing is that old LCD was out of neccessary range for saturation and deep of colors
Its why we now look to some old digital photos as it is so suturated on new LCD....
Author of such shots tried to saturate on old LCD... then we get now resul of too saturated colors and some time contrast on moder LCD that have more right range of all these things.

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisDNT (Post 113328)
The lighting in the cockpit looks amazingly realistic, the feeling of "being there".

Aircrafts are simply perfect.

As always, I could mention some minor criticism against the colors of the landscapes which don't look really "British", especially on the coastal area.
Maybe some tweeking in this sector could be useful.
Perhaps less "Velvia'ish" colors (they look too much vivid) and more "Kodachrome" ones ;-)

That will be later. Technolody that we are using should be tuned finally, then we need to correct the saturation for this technology. The thing only around this.
Its why I told that don't take in account these colors in the head of dev. update.
Even scales of some trees and grass will be other.

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 150GCT_Veltro (Post 113330)
+1

Seriously, what is this? An update about a pre-alpha multiplayer map? I was waiting for Britain not for Jurassic Park.

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0101.jpg

Bird of Prey land looks so good.


1. First of all would be good to read the header of dev. update. I will show Britain when it will be ready. Don't you think that others also didn't show the map a year before release?
2. Terrain there isn't bad, yes. But we have already better in detail with the close look. Remember, I told not only about controlable aricaft in future....

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igo kyu (Post 113358)
1. I liked the text on the aircraft, but the overall paintwork looked too glossy to me, they ought to be somewhat matt. The matt paint on some plastic models probably overdoes the mattness, but the purpose is camouflage, shiny is usually wrong for camouflage.


2. I didn't like the way the cliffs ended just before sea level, when there is a beach below a cliff often the beach extends quite a long way out to sea at low tide, and the sea washes the cliff face at high tide. Tides around the UK vary from place to place between 1 or 2 metres up to 12 metres difference in water height between high and low tide, and even then, "spring" tides are much higher than neap tides (12 metres is a spring tide, with a neap tide at that place being around 7 metres high ( with the relative low being about 4 metres high (for a difference of about 3 metres))).

I look forward to the release of SoW, I suspect the decision to drop OpenGL is a good one.

1. If you was watching the old DVD-video in the pack of 1946 release with two DVDs then you should remeber that we have unique technology: weathering of aircraft. The aricraft arriviong from manufacture is new... then in time - old with weatherd surface, matt, without paint in some places, etc...
The technology we have in some items never used in any game before.
We will begin to sho such thing when it will be ready and tuned. But at the moment all aircraft will be new and without markings (that also would be weathering in time)

2. There is the beach, like you tell. I selected the point of view especially very low... until we will finish the smooth transition between too different textures. Because some would tell that is isn't so nice :).
The water is traspatent. From underwater you may see something.

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECV56_Guevara (Post 113356)
Oleg and team: about the radars seens in those lovely screenshots, and regarding that DT is working on it for Il-2, will be functionals and operables in Bob?
That spit over the wood is wonderfull
thanx for the update!

Radars are working and will play great role in a gameplay doesn't matter single of multi.

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron (Post 113368)
Despite the "critisism" i think i can speak for most when i say that ingame screenshots is a giant step forward uppdate wice.

Thank u very much and looking forward to seeing more.


Btw, Igu Kyu, at sertain angles camoflage paint where infact glossy. Thats just how light reflects. Irl matt finishes never stays completly matt, u only need to wipe it down once and it becomes more glossy. Not counting dirt and wheatehering of course.

Very well said about everything.
Especially about diffeent adngles to the surface, painted in camoflase. Something even on matter surface we may see the reflection of clouds in real life. Its what we are doing in technology.

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krz9000 (Post 113919)
the attentionspan in this forum seems to be even shorter then on youtube, doh.

first: oleg tells us that the colors are to be tweaked...and then i see one post after another that the colors are ALL WRONG. why so many people these days need to open their mouth if they have nothing to say.

this update is clearly an engine demo and not to show off the recreation of britian in its true colors.

you should point your attention to:

- normalmaped landscape and game objects
- hdri lighting
- (hardware) geometry instances (trees, grass)
- lots of cloud particles
- great attention to details from the modelling team
- curved roads (based on projected splines?)
- landclasses for terrain?
- realtime shadows with self-shadowing even on alphatextured geo (grass)
- great view-distance
- clever LODs (e.g. grass only visible when it makes sense)

hdri lighting alows for great lighting changes and affects the complete scene. at sunset everything gets a orange hue, at noon a more blueish look.

seems like there are also post-fx like object-based motion-blur. (camera motion-blur too?)
add in some vignetting and a DOF and things will look very good.

dont let youself be fooled by the crazy colors you see here. the features that make a great render are all there it seems...and this is much more important then to show a landscape that looks like britain. (content can be done by the comunity if it might suck,...the core engine not)

so lets be happy and not fall for pointless topics/wishes like vegetation grow based on weather data...doh, its nice to see olegs creation inspire people but wishes should stay reasonable i think. the holodeck is not around the corner...and oleg is not trying to build it anyway.

my questions:

1. - do clouds cast realtime shadows
2. - will there be volumetric effects? (sunbeams through clouds,...)
3. - do you plan to show lots of situationbased post fx e.g. wounds that cause blurred/darker/reddish vision or stronger vignetting, stronger blurring of the vignette with higher speeds?
4 - are instanced geometries collisionobjects (trees)


ps: i created a google wave for STORM OF WAR you can find it by searching for "group:storm-of-war@googlegroups.com"


Almost nothing to add! You have the Eye like Eagle!

Answer your questions


1. Yes.
2. Probably. Depending of time before release. At least we have all in technology to make it looking realistic. And we have already 3D search lights :)
3. plan, but i don't think that lots :)
4. Each teee has collision. There are now just one type of trees and they are not like voted in the past by community one of the graphics settings.

Snuff_Pidgeon 10-26-2009 07:09 AM

Wow! thanks Oleg.

csThor 10-26-2009 07:21 AM

Can't help but being biased - any pics of the 109? A nice large cockpit shot perhaps? I'm in need of a new desktop background. ;-)

Oh BTW Oleg - you have mail.

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nearmiss (Post 114043)
Looks like a scene from Shrek.


http://mediaspin.com/blog/wp-images/shrek3.jpg


Hmm.... I'm sure that this map will be one of the most playable in online later.
Reading sugguesions of thousands users in the past for online gameplay we did it then(Ihave great compilation of users suggestions on my PC, accumulated for a long life of Il-2 on the market. Also this map will show most of the features for third party map creators... Don't you think about it?
This online map demonstrating already too much that no one sim had in the past and probably long time will not have.... Adn I especaiily don't show all things on this map that we have there for demostration of 3D engine features that never was present in any sim and are useful also for the ground-water-underwater based gameplay.

When I posted first in game shots of Il-2... some said that there isn't nothing new.... Then I begun to post later new and new shots of development progress and same these guys begun to say that it is too beatiful that to be real thing in the game.... The Il-2 then became N1 WWII sim in the world...

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csThor (Post 114269)
Can't help but being biased - any pics of the 109? A nice large cockpit shot perhaps? I'm in need of a new desktop background. ;-)

Oh BTW Oleg - you have mail.

Soon. Currently we are inserting it in engine. Not all gauges are working yet...

Majo 10-26-2009 07:39 AM

Where is the war?
Where is the storm?
Why there is no soul in this game and looks like any other 5 years old directX game?

With over 80% of the game finished... :cry:

I am trying really hard to avoid any sarcastic comments about the "teletubbies",
the "middle earth" and so on...

Regards,

Baron 10-26-2009 07:46 AM

Thank u very much Oleg.

The shot of the Bf 110 is the best yet (not counting spit cockpit, curved roads, clouds, etc etc.) with the sun glare and sun shining through the cockpit.

Very nice, and keep em coming.



Btw. I remember Luthier said he could post the fps count u had on the 2 pc u used to take the screenshots but he wouldnt, for obviouse reasons. By all means feel free to pm them just to me, ill keep em safe. ;)

HFC_Dolphin 10-26-2009 07:46 AM

I know it has nothing to do with screenshots, but anyway worths asking:
Is the Damage Model ready?
And, will it be complicated so we can "feel" various different "difficult" cases in getting back home when hit?

Thanks,

Skoshi Tiger 10-26-2009 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 114258)

The water is traspatent. From underwater you may see something.

Does this include water rising over our canopy when we have ditched our plane in the channel? ;)

Thanks for the screen shots, comments and all the effort you have been putting into this sim.

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majo (Post 114272)
Where is the war?
Where is the storm?
Why there is no soul in this game and looks like any other 5 years old directX game?

With over 80% of the game finished... :cry:

I am trying really hard to avoid any sarcastic comments about the "teletubbies",
the "middle earth" and so on...

Regards,

Another one "specialist"....

ZaltysZ 10-26-2009 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 114253)
NEW LCD types are not too saturated... real thing is that old LCD was out of neccessary range for saturation and deep of colors
Its why we now look to some old digital photos as it is so suturated on new LCD....
Author of such shots tried to saturate on old LCD... then we get now resul of too saturated colors and some time contrast on moder LCD that have more right range of all these things.

Yes, this is true if photos aren't color managed and displays aren't calibrated and profiled. The same goes for games. If game is not color managed and you tune colors on monitor which color space coincides with sRGB, you will at least get over saturated colors on ARGB (Adobe RGB monitor). This is because simple RGB values does not mean any particular color until color profile is applied. If no color profile is applied (a.k.a. no color management), then RGB values are mapped directly to color space of used device. Different devices (i.e. displays) has different native color spaces, so you will see different color reproduction on different devices without color management. Most LCD displays coincides with sRGB color space, however never larger displays (24''+) often have wider color space (i.e. ARGB). I own one and see correct colors in color managed applications, but not in games. For example, in IL2 I see too green grass, too red tracers, because it was tuned for sRGB display. It is not just "too", but sometimes it is "neon" like colors. :( If IL2 was color managed, I would see correct colors as they are seen on sRGB display. Would be great if SoW was color managed. :)

EDIT: As I said before, OpenGL has some extension for color management, but I don't know if something like this exists for DirectX. Anyway, it should be possible to tune colors on calibrated sRGB display and then make game to read color profile of display on startup and alter color curve (gamma ramp in DirectX?) by using information in that profile.

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger (Post 114276)
Does this include water rising over our canopy when we have ditched our plane in the channel? ;)

Thanks for the screen shots, comments and all the effort you have been putting into this sim.

Maybe. At the moment cant say you. If to make it cool there it should repeat all frames of all cocpits/canopies in the game. that is really great work to make such animation for each aricraft. In short - don't know currently

Snuff_Pidgeon 10-26-2009 08:23 AM

will there be explosions, electric fires, sparks inside the cockpit when hit?

Tree_UK 10-26-2009 08:25 AM

<Red Card for Nearmiss> your Shrek joke went down well with Oleg. :grin:

Feuerfalke 10-26-2009 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 114277)
Another one "specialist"....

ROFLOL

1:0 for Oleg :o

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuff_Pidgeon (Post 114281)
will there be explosions, electric fires, sparks inside the cockpit when hit?

Like in cinema? No. We don't plan unrealistic effects. But something will be.

ZaltysZ 10-26-2009 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuff_Pidgeon (Post 114281)
will there be explosions, electric fires, sparks inside the cockpit when hit?

You have forgotten the light at the end of dark tunnel. ;)

Snuff_Pidgeon 10-26-2009 09:03 AM

.

150GCT_Veltro 10-26-2009 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 114256)
1. First of all would be good to read the header of dev. update. I will show Britain when it will be ready. Don't you think that others also didn't show the map a year before release?
2. Terrain there isn't bad, yes. But we have already better in detail with the close look. Remember, I told not only about controlable aricaft in future....

Ok Oleg i understand what you say, but you have to understand that after so many years.......

What do you think about Rise of Flight's terrain (textures, trees, grass ecc. ecc..)? I don't care a lot about SoW cockpit, aircrafts ecc. ecc. because i know they will be superb, but i'm really afraid about terrain. What you say is right, but those Jurassic pics are really terrible......however.

What is your personal task about SoW's terrain, first of all considering DX10, DX11? What do you ask to yourself about its quality?

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 150GCT_Veltro (Post 114293)
Ok Oleg i understand what you say, but you have to understand that after so many years.......

What do you think about Rise of Flight's terrain (textures, trees, grass ecc. ecc..)? I don't care a lot about SoW cockpit, aircrafts ecc. ecc. because i know they will be superb, but i'm really afraid about terrain. What you say is right, but those Jurassic pics are really terrible......however.

What is your personal task about SoW's terrain, first of all considering DX10, DX11? What do you ask to yourself about its quality?


Il-2 engine and then game + engne was in development 4 years. Then it was modified in time several times.
BoB - is way more complex engine, several times more complex. Need more time for development that to get the product line with the life not for just one season, but for several titles at least. From the beginning there, like in IL-2 in the past, we need to put so many features-modules, that to satisfy the meets 2010-2015 at least.

In the header of dev update very clear is done what I think about colors of the terrain in this dev update from the point of veiw of a professional photographer (you may try to find my photo website). Even these Jurrastic colors, like you said will be tuned. It is said already in other answers of Luthier and me.
On the current modent we did technology, but using old, prepared for old variants of engine textures. They simply can't be right with all these nature lights effects that we are modeling in the engine, just cockpits textures and partially aircrafgt with cars, etc are already tuned for the new engine. Ground, water, etc - later. It is large, but simple work to change source colors of textures.
At first we show that everything is going, flying, shooting (but with special development traces-placeholders, why I will not show it, same with explosions, flame... its way i did show just smoke on the back ground byut don't show the source of the flame producing so great size smoke.)

Blakduk 10-26-2009 10:06 AM

Graphic questions
 
I noticed a couple of small things in the pictures of the Spitfire- in grab0126 the aerial seems to be slightly detached from the fuselage. The shadow doesnt touch the base.
Also, the shadow of the fuselage on the wing in both grab0126 and 0117 seems slightly jagged, it's something i have never seen in a render before.
The gunsight in grab0100 looks quite dark. I assume that's a result of the cloud behind it. It may be that will be too lifelike and will be too difficult to see the aiming reticle in certain angles.
I love the cloud effects in grab0116- the changing shadows on the clouds are awesome.
My jaw dropped when i saw grab0111- it looks uncannily like a render i did back in the 1990's with a raytracing programme.
The lighting through the clouds in grab0130 is a quantum leap from Il2. The translucency of the clouds and apparent volume are astonishing. I can hardly wait for a video of flying through them.
It seems SOW might be real after all ;)

Feuerfalke 10-26-2009 10:21 AM

The big cloud of smoke already gave me some smiles: Mr. Maddox is teasing us like in good old days of IL2. :grin:
Showing just enough to drop our jaws on the table and beg for more. Looking forward to some more screenshots.


@150GCT_Veltro:
Considering the "superb" detail in the cockpit, what makes you think that the external detail won't catch up to those high standards? :confused:

proton45 10-26-2009 10:25 AM

I'm really curious to see whats coming.... :)

Oleg Maddox 10-26-2009 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blakduk (Post 114301)
1. I noticed a couple of small things in the pictures of the Spitfire- in grab0126 the aerial seems to be slightly detached from the fuselage. The shadow doesnt touch the base.
Also, the shadow of the fuselage on the wing in both grab0126 and 0117 seems slightly jagged, it's something i have never seen in a render before.

1. It is possible in some places during movement and taking shots. it is shadow "detached", but not the mast of antenna. Its normal at least for now. Sure you may see such things in many other games and notice even more such things with shados, clipping, etc... Usually it isn't problem of a program, but hardware.

2. Sure you saw it in other games. As more complex shadow - more compleх optimization. When it is in movement you almost can't notice that jagged line. However on the shot it may happens due to just one frame. In short words - you will see it better in movement, as well as other features.


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