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- - Units Analysis (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=5103)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelian (Post 56592)

Let's take for example dragons. They are very good units but at the time you get them for first time (Land of the Death) the enemy which have remained you to fight agains are mostly demons and dragons agains which the dragon fire damage isn't good. Also they are hard to maintain as they can't be resurrected.

That's why I like Emerald Dragons the most.
They do physical damage, not fire (and decent one, not like crappy bone dragons). Also, they have two special attacks with no retaliation (grab and mana drain), so less chance to get them killed.

Not sure i'm understanding this chart. shouldn't the black dragon have a difference value of zero against itself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namel (Post 56557)

One bug in table. Cyclops is actually ranged unit.

I just got them and love them. :) They have unlimited range and are very very tough. Of course their damage isn't that great but they also got nice melee skills to punish archdemons or dragons that get too close.

you are right, thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorkus (Post 56651)

Not sure i'm understanding this chart. shouldn't the black dragon have a difference value of zero against itself?

No, black dragon also make damage to black dragon. The damage chould not be zero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelian (Post 56592)

Good job. Though from my expirience tables with stats aren't the best way to show which unit is good and which is bad. It usually depends on the playins style of the person. I personally find Ancient Ents, Ogres and Giants very crappy cause of their slow speed. They are only usefull later when you start fighting dragons. There is a few units which are very tough to fight agains but they suck. Let's take for example dragons. They are very good units but at the time you get them for first time (Land of the Death) the enemy which have remained you to fight agains are mostly demons and dragons agains which the dragon fire damage isn't good. Also they are hard to maintain as they can't be resurrected. I personally prefer 3-4 level units as Fear work mirracles when you have large quantities of low level units. Also they are easier to ressurect.

I aggree, my work doesn't show which unit is best, but only show which unit is good at physical attack and defence. Best unit also depend on the stratige of player, unit abilitly and skills, char type and enemy to fight. My work only a reference for you. Please be noted again, this chart only consider physical damage and resist, but maigc attack and resist.

Thanks

Still, I think that most valuable part of the chart are those AD/L and Health/L columns, since any other analysis starts from them. How tough is the group and how good is in dealing damage.

From these values you can start any analysis.

For example, archer vs Thorn-Hunter comparasion:

Archer AD/L: 0,07, Attack: 16
Thorn-Hunter AD/L: 0,188, Attack 4

Attacking creatures with defense of 10:
Archer damage: 0.07 * (100+6*3.33)/100 = 0.084
Thorn-Hunter damage: 0.188 * 100/(100+6*3.33) = 0.157

So full thorn-hunters stack deals almost twice damage compared to archer.

But, if player has bowman talent at 3rd level, his archers would have -20% lower leadership needs. So actual damage would be 0.084/0.8 = 0.105. Much better.

There are other factors too. For example archer effective range is 6 tiles, while for thorn-hunters is just 4. So archer will more often deal full damage, and thus be better then Thorn-Hunter if attacking stacks from distance. On the other hand, archer uses arrows, making him deal just 30% damage on skeletons. But from plus size, archer has freezing arrow talent, very useful on stacks with slow speed, and fire arrow talent for more damage with proper training (0.108 damage, 0.135 with full bowman talent).

So anyway, while core of the unit usefulness can seen from those AD/L and Health/L values, there are always other factors.

Practice shows that Royal Snakes are simply great at almost every situation. Their health, damage, ldrs, no retaliation ability and lunge just make them too good in the first half of the game at least.

Demonesses are another great unit imo. Charm, Distant attack and Infernal swap just offer an amazing array of strategy.. basically with just swap I win 9/10 battles without a single causality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayruan (Post 56752)

No, black dragon also make damage to black dragon, so the last column's value ("difference") should be zero. The damage chould not be zero

No I am saying that a black dragon does the same damage as itself (obviously). So it should take an equal number of strikes for it to kill or be killed by another black dragon.

Or does this table assume the designated unit strikes first?

Also, it doesn't seem that the table reflects no retaliation? This is in essence the same as the ork veteran's ability. You double the veteran's damage but don't adjust other units that have a no retal strike (snakes, vampires, etc)