I don't think it's that valuable since you have to destroy enough items just to recover the 16 mind runes and 2 magic runes for level 2 and 27 and 6 for level 3 respectively. And while most items aren't used, I think that it will be hard to destroy enough just to recover the investment.
At least now is more useful for a dwarf army.

Well the way to look at it is at least you have a chance of getting some runes invested back with this skill (i always seem to end up with stacks of green runes anyway).
If you invest in the mage Alchemy skill, there's no chance of getting anything back!

Except a profusion of spells. :-P

Again i think you ppl dont get my point. Would any1 use dark commander if it gives +atack/initative for sekeltons (no other undead unit), or quick draw if it poweres up only elves (not any other archer unit).
Just seems unfair, either make new neatnes skill same for group of units ( any unit that can summon other units ), or dont change it at all.
This way game developers only made it more easy for no-loss game with invincible droid army. And no other reason.

@Fatt Shade; I get the point but a skill like that would disrupt greatly the game (although mage summon does it too). I think it could be changed but wouldn't it be too similar too mage summoner skill since it also affects units called by other units?

Maybe it could affect units with more "mechanical" traits? (droids, engineers, catapults, cannoneers, or even knights and paladins since they have a metal armor? (units who need a lot of heavy equipment maybe?))

@ onepiece Ok i agree, it would be change in game if there is something other then AI to fight against. With AI you summon and comp kills youre summons, if there was PvP games you would kill enemy summoning units first.
If neatness was bufed up for all summoning units i guess it would make no-loss game less tedious, cause i saw ppl playing 100+ round battles.
If they make something like HoMM hot seat then there changes will be needed, but now against comp, for whitch many ppl say it is doable on imposible with some ridiculus rules (here i mean on `impy` and his chalanges :-) Change in neatness will only make battles in witch ppl spend rounds to only get mana regen/round obsolete.
No-loss game is doable that we all know now, but no-loss with <hour per battle would be nice :-)

I hope you are joking. No-Loss does not mean slow and tedious. Slow and tedious just means you don't have a solid and efficient build.

No-Loss can be extremely fast, easy, and fun with the proper army make up and preparation.

If you want the fastest, easiest, No-Loss, Impossible game, look into the Warrior class.

After each battle, Bloodthirst and enough maximum Rage ensures you can cast Mana Accelerator in round 1, so you dont' even have to wait for the mana regeneration between battles.

I killed Ktahu in 6 rounds, Impossible, No Loss, only level 48.

Baal went down in 15. If I was higher level, maybe even sooner. Unicornxp took him out in 5 rounds.

Again, he did it with no-loss, and Impossible.

I agree, most people do not want their battle to become so long, remember that we have many other things to do in life, not only playing king's bounty.

1 hour or more per battle is just too ridiculous, at least for me.

All classes can do fastest game, no loss. But againts bosses, warrior and paladin have slight advantage (leadership and attack rules againts bosses), those two usually take down bosses in 10 to 15 rounds with full troops (even the hard one like k'tahu and baal).

Well, real time or game time? If you mean real time, most mages end up extending the battle artificially to ensure they can restore their mana. A warrior can just skip that step.

Unless they are doing something like the emerald dragon trick, but that is a special build. A warrior can nearly steam roll anything, and just be ready to hit a minor battle again easily.

Against bosses, I think mages have a severe disadvantage though. Unless they are doing something like the solo black knight combo with splinter. :(

I think against the gremlin, I end up taking like 25+ rounds, maybe 30? Mostly because I end up using divine armor + stone skin just to physically hit the gremlin. I eventually run out of dual cast, so I have to do some befangled magic spring combo in there and calm rage once in a while too. I also use summons to try to do extra damage too, and make sure they force retaliations against the other summons, not my main damager. It is really tedious and not fun.

It really drags it out. Then I have to also care for the rest of the units if they do a mass attack. Sometimes it is difficult to halt the enemy from a mass attack.

If the answer is to use ranged units, well ranged units take a lot from the mass attack and don't deal enough damage without all the right items and the necessarily amounts of leadership. Paladin and Warrior classes have the leadership needed.

When I beat Ktahu with the warrior, I couldn't easily figure out a way to stop him from his second mass attack, except... to kill him before he can do it. :)

I don't have that option with the mage.

I couldn't figure out how to beat Ktahu with a full army with a mage. If the answer is a solo stack... that automatically makes it tedious unless we are talking about black knights. And even that is annoying since EvilN sucks up a turn.

Soloing driller with the mage and trolls was NOT fun at all. :( I think it took me 60 rounds one time (tried to do it early to get a powerful shooter army... that didn't work well against other bosses due to low leadership anyways :( ).

Well, i mean game time haha.

As for mage, this is my least played class, probably i've only played it 2 if not 3 times (i forgot about it). To me, it seems the most boring class of the 3.

Anyway, most people said warior is the best. Though paladin is the easiest if you do virtual no loss. But i guess there is few or several things that mage outshine those 2, from my experience mage always has easiest time againts dragons, just throw mass astral damage spell (now we have black hole), and they're done. And if you're going for heavy int and mana build and destruction spells type, it can finish most battle as quick as the other two (if not quciker) without much thinking like the other two, but yeah, you must wait for your mana to regen. Though it suffer in case of boss fight.

K'tahu is soloable with mage without black knight, i never tried it myself, but my younger brother solo him with red dragons (of course with heart of dragons + drakonix) but he said it's better with green dragons (as it can regen your mana), and i think he has a scale set or some phys. resistance item, the dual cast play a major role here (as you can buff your dragons quickly).