Official Fulqrum Publishing forum - The EXPLOSIONS in to The Battle Of Britain

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- - The EXPLOSIONS in to The Battle Of Britain - Storm Of War..... (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=15298)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igo kyu (Post 167068)

That depends upon what you think the tank is.

The motor, electronics, ammo, smaller guns, turret bearings, tracks, wheels are all pretty destructible in certain circumstances, and if the thing "brews up", the chances of any of those except the wheels and tracks and maybe the engine surviving is minimal.

Hesh relies on high explosive in direct contact with the outside of the tank. A near miss doesn't have that contact, and is unlikely to break chunks off the inside of the armour. Armour plate is tough and thick. Blast from a near miss is more likely to set off the ammo inside the tank, and that's not really likely either. Injury to the crew through the tank being thrown about is more likely, but even that's not very likely.

Believe me, I am a former tank cmdr.

what does HEAT do? Fry the crew with fluid copper
What does KE dos? the debris it tears off on the inside of (the armor plate of) the crew department are the projectiles to shred the crew.
Also, you dont light up the ammo, it's in a special compartment with a blast door anyway, but the hot oil of the hydraulics. Yummy, fried again.

Hesh: I googled a sec, sorry, it's German, but you get the idea.
http://gamelaunch.de/MEMBERS/manni/p...inzip_Hesh.jpg

S.o. told me once they calculate about 3crews until you have write off the tank, sounds about right. I talked to an Israeli who joined the IDF after the war, their job was to scratch the former crews from the walls - the tank itself was fine tho(or fixable)

I'd only add that all tanks are not created equal. Especially modern tanks compared to WWII tanks. I don't know of any WWII tanks with sealed ammo compartments like modern tanks. complete destruction of tanks by the ammo "brewing up" was very common in WWII, they didn't call the Sherman the "Tommy Cooker" for nothing (the Brits were somewhat less amused by this nickname than were the Germans). As a matter of fact, given the ammo storage arrangements in most WWII tanks it was rare to cause enough heat inside a tank to kill the crew without setting off the ammo (If ever). (Granted individuals might be killed by debris, or unable to bail out before brew up)

Again I am not talking about any kind of warhead contact on the tank itself. I just referring to being frustrated about dropping a pair of 1000 lb bombs a dozen meters from a tank and having them survive (in IL-2 obviously) This used to bother me immensely but now it seems more reasonable. I still can't imagine it being undamaged, but the thing is that the game (very reasonably) doesn't have advanced damage models for ground vehicles, they are basically alive or dead.

Actually now that I write that I am curious how the damaging of ground units works exactly in IL-2. I said they were either alive or dead but I guess they must have some sort of "hit-points" or something since it usually takes multiple gun strikes to take certain things out. Does anybody know precisely how this works?

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiss (Post 167176)

its not fluid copper, but acts as fluid because of really high pressure its having against armour plate when going innit in high speed. same thing bit with sabot rounds fired in test shots. (aluminium against something cant remember) the metal flows in metal. metals acts like they were fluid/melt even when they werent, and just because of high pressure.

there been tests done with heat ammo, cuttin cone in several pieces, shot on water and then extracted, to see if they melt together. didnt.

also, for simulation next to come i really hope that planes are not anymore flying 500kg boms when they explode midair/on ground.

most of my deaths in il-2 comes in this sim just because gettin caught by these monster explosions planes make after i shoot at them. sometimes they ignite to burn while i fly past them, then go boom when they are way behind me, killin me too.

there aint so much to go big boom in plane. not fuel can do such huge boom when its still in fuel tank and not perfectly mixed in huge area with air. fuel tank makes more likely buff, not a real explosion. sure it can rip plane in parts but thats just cause of huge amounts of gasses created but not going with high speed. few 10 meters per sec bout maxium.

also, oxy bottle doesnt make huge boom eighter, to explanate those huge booms they make, pressure is going from oxy bottle to every direction and is reduces really quickly in air. in compressed areas oxy bottle booms are different things. and oxy bottles aint that big in planes as well.

and ammo for guns.
ammo for guns would not go boom easily when they are in wings and fuselage takes the hits.
also, if ammo cooks off, it means the cases of ammo would most likely fly off as they are much lighter weight whan the bullets/projectiles. and as ammo isnt in the breech of the gun it means the pressure can spread everywhere and thus not pushing the projectiles in fast speeds like when fired from the gun.

also, projectiles detonators had safetys to prevent them to explode in their own time. some or most of them needed the fast spinning action made by riflin to get rid of the safetys made inside the detonator.

pls Oleg and crew, check again these unreal explosion damages planes make. there is lots of vids in youtube from plane crashes. using gasoline engines. they make no explosions as bombs do make, but fire puffs, which expanding speeds arent anywhere near the speeds of explosions and thus being able to rip stucture of flyby plane at distances of tens of meters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiss (Post 167176)

S.o. told me once they calculate about 3crews until you have write off the tank, sounds about right. I talked to an Israeli who joined the IDF after the war, their job was to scratch the former crews from the walls - the tank itself was fine tho(or fixable)

i have heard a similar story. from an australian who served in vietnam. he talked about him or collegues of his having to clean out the inside of tanks of human remains, sounded rather gruesome

i always presumed the tank would have been disabled or destroyed to, and found it odd they would get soldiers to clean the inside of the tanks where people had been killed (other then maybe removing dead bodies for funerals and identification etc)

never thought they'd be reusing the same tank again later with a new crew

In the viet nam era book, "Flight of the Intruder" (made into a film of the same name) The new pilot jumps into the cockpit of a plane only to find that eventhough they had fixed up the damage, they hadn't cleaned it out after the previous crew had been shot up!

Not sure if it's realistic, but hey it makes for a good story.

cheers!

Once a czechoslovak pilot (dont remember the name) flew his spitfire back home above the channel, when he spotted a lancaster fighting with four messerschmidts. He saved the lanc in a long dogfight, but got shot. He managed to land the spit on his base, but died immediately due to excessive bleeding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger (Post 167449)

'Real' explosions! An absolutely essential point worth spending time implementing. As I think this was one if not the only real recurring weakness in the previous, albeit still going strong, IL-2. With time only becoming more apparent. So in this perhaps late stage of development. I hope Oleg and Co. took the time to consider how all their beautiful scenery will and can be destroyed with great drama and sways of ultra-violence. :grin:

I once saw an animated gif of a (probably ww1) tank which gets lifted up in the air and flipped over after a near miss from a bomb but I can't find the gif anymore.