devils advocate
 

As a student of history it is almost impossible to know what would have happened had hitlers generals (including Rommel) succeded in assasinating Hitler; would they have sued for peace or conttinued the war ? the debate potential is great.
I do find myself disagreeing with wookie on one point though....
Hitler was evil this cannot be doubted, most evil this i am not so sure of he has two contemporaries that give him a good run for his money and in terms of innocents murdered he comes third to both Mao Se Tung (most likley spelt incorrectly) the vaulted hero of the peoples republic of china and Iron Joe Stalin.

1) We'll never know, but if you had subs... then it would be obvious to use them

2) Our own decoding wouldnt work decoding your enigma unless we had it. Hence the reason we "borrowed" one from your lovely Uboats :D

3) This could get me flamed but i'll say it anyway.. The Lufwaffe bombed us first, look at coventry. We (Bomber Command) just had bigger planes and did a better job of it! Like it or lump it, its the truth. Though remember, the crews didnt want to do this, it was orders from the top.

4) No idea what happened to it. Alot of things are missing.

5) Playing online in daytime settings the lanc would be to easy to shoot down. It was a night time bomber, much harder to destroy then ;)

6) No idea. Time will tell.

7) Eh?

Ahhh revisionist historical debates I love em :D

1. Even that point is debatable. Even without the subs I don't think the Germans could have held them off indefinately, drag the conflict out at a much higher cost definately. The rest of the worlds resources were just too great, the end result was inevitable.

2. All is fair in love and war. Too bad the Axis couldn't steal a Navajo ;)

3. The allies hands were just as dirty if not dirtier in being responsible for countless civilian deaths as a result of indiscriminate bombing.

4. and 5. Can't put everything in a game/simulation that would be..........real life ??

6. I sure hope that comes out soon for consoles!! Too fun, can't imagine it is anytime in the near future though. Would mean I wasn't the Greenest pilot in the skies!!

7. Ok

1. it wasnt just the allied subs..."The British bombers, torpedo bombers and submarines based on the island were exacting a merciless toll on the Italian merchant tonnage in the central Mediterranean, which inevitably led to a very real weakness in Rommels Afrika Korps..." long supply lines are lethal...look at the war with Russia as well.

2. code breaking with out computers is a LONG and arduous task. compound that with the fact the enigma machine changes the algorithm constantly...basically without capturing a coding machine you were SOL...

3. war is hell. there is no such thing as a civilized war. innocent people will be killed either accidently or on purpose...it is the nature of the beast.

4. no clue...

5. add every aircraft!!! the more models the better.

6. hope that some sequeal comes out but fear it will be PC only. IL2 has ruined me...other games dont do anything for me like this one does.

7. Ditto

8. MG42 is an awesome piece of machinery...2 rates if fire...i should have gotten one when i had the chance.

9. Rommel ate a bullet not because of North Africa...but because he was implicated in an assination plot against Hilter.

miss communication
 

my friend, I didn't say what the "whole Germans did was ok", all I said was Rommel is a good General.

Take a look at him with a military perspective: He had good tactics that even earn him the respect of allied generals Patton and Monty.

Also I did not mention France or the panzers there. So to clarify I choose Rommel just as anyone would have choos an axis General, and I do believe there a many good one in the allied side. But can we not afford to give rommel some credit, I mean his mistake was being involve in the wrong side of the battlefield.

To clarify
 

I partially agree with u my friend. Rommel was a good General but he was just working for the wrong side. I'm sorry i didn't made that point a little more clear on my last post. Besides I like the guy because of his tactics not for how he use to apply them

This was more like what I expected to hear, from the discussion. Thank you my friend

Fair comment and I admire him as a leader of his men in the battlefield and as you say his tactics. I was being as tongue in cheek as you were!! I don't think your original post necessarily got what you've said above across. Unfortunately you choose to use the 'us and them' in conveying your post as so as expected you've inadvertently created a situation as such. If you'd have taken a more neutral stance you wouldn't have recieved such as response. Perhaps it's a language thing. Perhaps the same is true of your 'Eagle Day' post as sadly the very best Spit pilots lining up to join from the way it's conveyed!! I'll defend my nation when it's threatened in any way. We may not be much of a nation nowadays but rest assured our pride still runs deep. As someone who's family fought in both world wars last century I have as much right as the next man to display that. That all said it's a game at the end if the day and I see it as such but be very careful as you may make more enemies than friends!!!

WW II I like
 

In life there are many dilemas and it all depend on how u see them and on which side u are on.

For instance WW II what I like about it, what I have about it.

LIKE:
I like how people fought together for a noble cause, I thing WWII was the only justified war [that I know so far] in history. The reason I thing this is because in was just simply a battle between good and evil, Freedom and opression. The Nazis and Allies [But not all germans were Nazis, some just follow orders]. all the other wars have been caused for the wrong reasons, at least thats how i see them: WW I [a murder], Crusades [religion; who knows which is the right one], Cold War [a race between super powers].

I also like how much mankind came up with such technological acheivements
The aircraft: magnificent machines [look at them fly, but do not thing about the human loses, just look at them flying in the sky], the rocket [great power, will later be used for something good rather than warfare; the space rocket, the moon landing], the Me262 [ the first jet what will later be studied to provide a new transportation vehicle].

Dramatic scenes: A brotherhood that bond people together no matter if they were from different countries; the allies French, British, and Americans working together.
WHAT I HATE:
The holocaust, people dying, the atom bomb, the bombing of london [unjustified civilian districts], the bombing of Dresden [unjustified civilian bombing in Germany], Japanese actions at nanking. esentially every side of WWII had its obscure moment, though one side more than the other but still both.
Why I like IL2 sturmovik Birds of prey: Well I only get to experience the parts a like about World War II and the ones I don't like I save to myself.

U may agree on some of what I had said, you most likely will not, which is good. In human nature, we have to always find two sides to the coin, a good one and a bad one. But at the end I think is not evil or good, Its what you like the most. An example

IN an american history class George the III was a tyran who ruled the american colonies harshly. In another History class from different perpective, King George was a good king to England, he even work along his people [a thing a king was just not able to do]. What I'm trying to proof I guess is that The two side can be both right and wrong, but at the end its just what u like best.

so you think the invasion of poland was justified.