Originally Posted by MadTommy (Post 465974)

Ok i take it back, i will respond.

Please look at my posting history and quote me once ever talk about broken promises or similar or any reference to these supposed held beliefs. I think you must be getting me confused with someone entirely different. :confused:

Originally Posted by planespotter (Post 465975)

Ok, back to thread topic...sorry to be boring...what is best solution for starting RAF machines. Has way found to spawn warm? Can fmb be used to start warm?

Originally Posted by planespotter (Post 465979)

Poop. I love my Hurricane...it takes more hits before going down!

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES (Post 465981)

For example, many here say they feel 'ripped off' or 'lied to' or 'cheated' etc.. etc.. its all the same

Originally Posted by MadTommy (Post 465985)

I agree.. such terms are clearly childish.

Originally Posted by MadTommy (Post 465985)

I have never posted any such views or comments.

Originally Posted by MadTommy (Post 465985)

Hell $50 on a video game is pocket change...

Originally Posted by MadTommy (Post 465985)

Just don't tarnish me with that crap.

Originally Posted by MadTommy (Post 465985)

Stop bloody trolling.

Originally Posted by Catseye (Post 465896)

Chivas,
I don't think you should be too quick to denigrate the "community" in general terms of lacking logic.

Looking back over the posts on this thread, I find some well placed, erudite and very logical points or comments in general from all sides.

What I am seeing though, is the arguments being placed from two different perspectives. One perspective is that of a Beta tester. The other perspective is one of a client who has purchased a product.

Both perspectives have their valid points. However and regrettably, the process that 1C has chosen to improve on Cliffs and prepare for the next release, is to dump Beta versions into the community and expecting coordinated and factual results.

This would be similar IMHO, to having a community leader present a scenario to a town hall meeting. You surely will see a mix of logic, emotions, passions, variations, suggestions and outright insults ensue.

A solution that comes to mind eminates from managing customer expectations and implementing procedures in a more streamlined approach. To me, the solution is the process of formal inside and outside beta teams. I've had the good fortune in the past to be on the Falcon4 outside beta team and the Flanker outside beta team.

Flanker IMHO was the best because: Testers had to apply, give their credentials, be chosen and issued passwords and protected download opportunities. The Flanker Devs had beta test documents on their site to be accessed directly that had to be filled out accurately. They had version control. NDA's were signed. Text was issued detailing changes made to the previous version, problems to be specifically checked for the current one and other information. Testers could access a list of issues identified previously by testers with specifics so as not to report the same already identified issue. The inside team was an exclusive group of about 10 Beta testers with specific qualifications. (They were really in the outside world - not at the Devs location.) After they had first crack at the latest version and adjustments made, that corrected version was sent out to the outside team of about 30 or so testers for verification. After that go around several times, the patch or update was issued publicly.

The reward for being on the testing teams was: Too be a part of the development of a product that I and others passionately cared about; recognition with names of all the testers printed in the manual; a GREAT T-shirt entitled - "Flanker Testing Team" with a super imprint of the Flanker in flight. To me, that was enough.

So here we are arguing amongst ourselves with our passions about a sim we all care about while approaching the arguements from different perspectives. While you may consider yourself to be a beta tester for Cliffs, I and others at this time do not. Therefore, the perspective of what is being released to the community is very different indeed.

I would consider applying to be on the tester team if that option was made available by 1C. But as it is now, I'm just a paying customer. I think that: if we all took time to be aware of the mish-mash of opinion, our own perspectives and the source of the opinions in the community that is generated by what I consider a flawed Beta system it certainly would be better for all.

I respect the opinions that you and other's more inclined to be beta testers put out. I also urge you to understand that headings in the forum that are not within the beta testers report section should not be subject to a beta testers perspective but rather should be considered to be that of the general client base instead. To that end, they are not IMHO subject to the same criteria that you or a passionate beta tester would expect to be appropriate.

Our enthusiasm and passions in the forum world will naturally foment into what we are experiencing now. Unless you belong to a specic group ie., heart specialists, plumbers, farmers, quilters or . . . . qualified beta testers - and have the same credentials, education, training, language nuances, goals - then the discourse is disjointed, dysfunctional, non-productive and generally decays to the lowest common denominator . . . . . which is personal insults.

I think we are all better than this.

Originally Posted by Catseye (Post 466041)

Agree 100%
I will also be evaluating very carefully the features of the sequel prior to purchasing. As it stands now, I think that we will have a reasonably steady and flyable sim with the recent major issues fixed and noticeable graphic anomalies corrected. I have accepted the approach by the Devs to concentrate on new development and don't expect a large investment of their time to bring COD up to full completion at this time. I do expect though, that the sequel will have some form of compatibility wherein we will get to experience COD as it was intended to be from the outset.

In the meantime, I and my squadmates will enjoy flying on some of the great servers we have until the sequel arrives. I see great potential despite the current frustrations experienced by all parties.

Despite my venting at beta results and procedures, all-in-all, I'm enjoying the sim immensely.