I thought this thread was about skeet shooting?

I have defended myself from a bear attack once using only a loose-leaf notebook. But yes a US serviceman won skeet shooting today I hear.

What did you do? Write a polite note to the bear asking it to kindly desist? ;)

P.S. I demand the right to arm bears...

You mean it's not a cross-country defensive break dancing thread????

Damn! All my stats are based on historical CCDBD data.

--Outlaw.

@ Outlaw

Why must it be a gun? Why not something less leathal? Have you ever seen the effect of OC spray? With a range of up to 5m, I don't see why this wouldn't work for "home defense".
Also most times, you won't have time to grab a weapon to defend yourself.
There is also the risk of injurie to other people living in the house. You don't know where your bullet is going to hit.You must keep in mind, that shooting requires skill. Especially in high stress situations and in the dark, most people will miss the target. The FBI had a statistic about hit percentage of police officers in firefights. over 70% of the bullets missed and that at close range (up to 7 meters).
That's why the protection is not garanteed and you might hit someone you don't want to hit.

I do not say that you shouldn't have anything to defend yourself, but a gun is not the way to go imo. There are better alternatives.

Just curious, how accurate you think youre gonna be with that can of pepper spray in that same fire fight. No thanks, I'll keep my 40.

Being on this forum the last few months has been a real eye-opener. I've been really shocked at the attitudes of so many of the Americans on here.

It seems that American society is very dangerously fragmented and volatile. Everyone seems to feel threatened. Seems to be a picture of a society losing cohesion and slowly disintegrating.

Maybe not surprising given that the U.S. right has been edging ever further into la-la land paranoia, fuelled by Fox news and a wide array of shock jocks.

God help us all.

I disagree with your, "...most times...", statement. I can reach a multitude of firearms in my home within a few seconds from nearly anywhere in it and I can do the same within my car.

Besides, if your argument is that you won't be able to retrieve your firearm you won't be able to retrieve something, "less lethal", either so you might as well just have a, "request theft" button, at the front door that restrains the occupants, disables any communication devices, and unlocks the doors for any would be attackers.

As far as the "less lethal" argument goes, that is just so ridiculous I can't even laugh. I want to be AS LETHAL AS I CAN. Why should an attacker have even the slightest chance of hurting me? Why is it his RIGHT to be able to attack me. And make no mistake, by not allowing me the power to destroy him in his tracks YOU ARE GRANTING HIM THE RIGHT. The fact that he may pay for it later will not influence his decision at all.

Regardless, there are thousands of cases where pepper spray has failed to stop attackers. Furthermore, HAVE YOU EVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT UNLOADING A CAN OF PEPPER SPRAY IN YOUR BEDROOM? I mean, really, you had better hope it will stop him because unless you're on the same drugs as your attacker it sure as hell will put you on the ground. Of course your A/C will eventually spread the cloud to the rest of the house so you have that to look forward to.

Don't even mention a taser unless you want to pit your hand to hand skills against the kind of person who would break into your house.

As an IDPA and IPSC competitor I am fully aware of the skill level shooting requires.

There are several types of frangible home defense rounds that will not penetrate an interior wall with significant energy remaining.

You are correct in that protection is never guaranteed (and I never said such) but I CAN guarantee you that, "less lethal", only translates to, "less protection". While it is true that there is always the possibility of unintended injuries and, while I am sure it has happened, I have never read of a single one in the hundreds of accounts of defensive firearm use I've read.

--Outlaw.

Dont worry not all americans are like these gun toting rednecks on these forums. Some of us are educated and not aggressive.

So pepper spray doesn't work? I work with these sprays and used it several times. The effect is immediate.
If the criminal is drugged and the spray does not affect him, well, then a bullet in a non vital area won't stop him either. That's were we come to skill again. Most people won't be able to hit a vital area under stress and in the dark. So I disagree when you say that less lethal weapons are less protection.

An other problem is, that many people will also shoot criminals who "just" want to steal money in their houses. That's a problem. I can imagine that a scared person who doesn't have training, will fire at every person which is not supposed to be in his house.
Also there is a great chance of shooting because of the stress. You know the problem: finger on the trigger and before you know it the gun fires. Especially single action pistols with a light trigger pull.

Imo a gun is a to complicated system for an untrained individual. And therefore dangerous for him and others.