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I think you made it very clear to the readers of this forum what kind of thinking you follow.

For those interested to this >1 Mio prisonners were starved to death by Western allied. This is a hypothesis published by Mr. Bacque in a book repeatedly refuted by recognized historians. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Losses

I think I do not need to link anything about Shoah, as there can be no doubt that there had been a huge extermination plan put into action killing millions by Germany at that time.

of course they were "refuted" by "recognized historians".. again, always history is written by the victors.

here's a link regarding the pre-WWII polish atrocities: Polish Atrocities against the German minority in Poland pre-WWII, and another one regarding general WWII atrocities.

it's a theory, which most probably will never be proved, even if it might be real. but you can try to read, and make some personal opinion about it.

also, your attitude, tone and implies are disturbing: I am no nazi, and have nothing to do with them. I do not think that german race is a superior race, and everyone else should go to dirt. I'm not even a german for that!

I do not believe nazis and germans were angels, and haven't committed atrocities during WWII, but I also do not believe the allies to be the divine peace messengers they were posing into.. each nation has his own scum, sick people enjoying doing bad things on other people, and unfortunately those are the real culprits for these.

I just want to know the truth, not just blindly accept propaganda, no matter which color or side that propaganda is. I want to ask questions and learn to use my brain, not sheepingly accept everything others want me to believe is the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Stormcrow (Post 340735)

You should also post the line above the mentioned article:

Unbalanced scales.svg
The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (January 2009)

For Clearence:
The German Historian Commission who stated, that at Dresden where killed "only 25.000" Citizens, was not an independend Commission!

The "Body Count" was made by the "Books of Dead" of Dresden in 1945.
Stormcrow, if you set this Equal to Auschwitz, than you will find out what Number of killed People?
To help you out: The Soviet Army set the Body Count by Books of Dead to 74.000 People. Do you now believe, that only 74.000 People died in Auschwitz? In 1945 the international Red Cross numbered the Cassulties in Dresden by 220.000 People (aafter the War).
Dr. Goebbels personal Diary (i am owning a complete Edition) is talkíng about some between 250.000 - 200.000 People by the Statement of the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (German military High Command). This was not used in Propaganda, just to say it, its the private Diary.

If you do body count, please do it in the same way to all war opponents. Just for fairness ;).

Quote:

Originally Posted by adonys (Post 340712)

well, actually, after a war, if you want peace and pretend you are not a slaver country, you would offer fair terms for the defeated nation to can cope with. if you offer them enslavement and death, why it seem to you so out-of-the-ordinary for the enslaved county to revolt, if they have the guts to rather prefer death to enslavement?!!

germany was offered none at the end of WWI, so it was the perfect natural thing every sane mind would have to expect from them, namely rise again in war to obtain human peace settlements..

your history learned you some things.. but what if they are not really like that?!!

here's for you some food of thought, go search the internet for information and use your own brain to try to decide which of them are looking as to have really happened:
- it seems that Poland was kind of rogue state before WWII, and was deploying concentration camps in which the german population from german territories occupied by Poland at the end of WWI was exterminated, resulting in Germany attacking Poland to stop this (should it be really a coincidence the fact that most of the german WWII concentration camps were actually situated in Poland?!!)
- Britain starting the night bombing campaign over german cities (ie civil targets), as being the only thing they could do to hurt Germany at the time, and the odious german fuhrer refusing to pay them with the same coin for more than a month or two, until it could bear it no more, and started the british cities bombing campaign (namely London).. just to have the british cry outraged to the whole world how the cruel germans were hitting their civil tragets
- Britain civil casualties for the whole WWII are like 67.000 people.. while only in the dresden the infamous allied bombing raids killed around 200000 people.. yet the german are the criminal ones
- The allied (phosphorus) bombing campaign over german civil targets in order to destroy their homes and therefore obliterate their morale and resolution to continue the war, killing german civilians in their hundreds of thousands, and obliterating most of the german cities from the face of the earth and leaving most of german population without homes was never condemned as war crimes.. yet german leaders were condemned at Nurenberg as war criminals
- Eisenhower's DEF camps a the end of the war, in which between 900000 and 1700000 german POWs were starved to their deaths
- the most incredible of them all.. until you start digging for truth..: it seems that there were no systemaic mass gas executions campaign in german concentration camps, but just allied post war victory propaganda (skeleton like humans pictures were in fact presenting typhus infected prisoners, germans actually using cyclone B gas to disinfect the clothes of the prisoners in order to stop typhus disease and fleas spreading, clothes disinfection chambers actually having metal sealing doors and gas evacuation systems, while the alleged human gas chambers were not having those, huge gas chambers output bins presented as so after the war are not appearing in allied reconnaissance photos from 1945, mass normal looking like prisoners (not starved) from german concentration camps at liberation, and so on..)

Germany was treated so badly after WW1 cos guess what they started a war that virtually destroyed Europe, and add to it they displayed many times (like in WW2) tutonic brutality towards anyone civilians included.

Germany Bombed London by mistake when a He111 got lost. The RAF retailiated and bombed Berlin. Georing being the hot head that he was retaliated with mass raids on London. Thus starting the Blitz of London.

So what if you have rouge states that do bad things, is that the excuse to start world war 2 and destory Millions of lives including Germans?

You cannot justify in any shape or form what Nazisim did in Europe or to the Jewish people anymore than i cannot justify what bomber command did to dresden, but the difference is i can say it would never have happened in Hitler and others had not invaded poland etc.

Its clear you are a holocaust denier, even though your up against an insurmountable amount of evidence.

Dude you will not make me feel sorry for the people in Germany who perpertrated such evil.

I cannot believe I am actually reading this. :shock: You sound like the people who lived next door to Belsen and pretended they had no idea.

Believe me I understand a thing or two about warfare and know bad stuff happens on both sides, but you are living a fantasy if you think the treaty was unnecessarily harsh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerbil Maximus (Post 340781)

Dude you will not make me feel sorry for the people in Germany who perpertrated such evil.

here you lost it :rolleyes:

Maximus, if you talk so, you should tell both sides of the Medal:
Germany did not beginn WW I!

Austria Decleared War to Serbia for the killing of Prince Ferdinand in Sarajevo.
Russia Decleared War to Austria for the Alliance with Serbia
Germany Decleared War to Russia, if they wont Reinforce the Russian German Boarder. Same to France, if France will not reinforce the Boarder. (Demobilisation). Both Countrys, Russia and France, did not take away the Troops from the German Boarder.
At August 1st Russian Troops do the First Attack in World War I to East Prussia.
Britain Decleared War to Germany because of the War between France and Germany and the German invasion to Belgium, what was a follow of the Conflict between Britain and Germany to guarant the Belgium Boarder by all Partys. Britain did not. So Germany did not. Only France did.

That is the Line of the Beginning of the World War I.

Another Point where you are wrong: RAF did the First attacks on Germany in March 1940. Targets where Collon, Essen, and Dortmund. Targetting only Civil Buildings.

Another point is: Why do you think World War II started at September 1st 1939??? This was not the Date where World War II started. At this time it was only the conflict between Poland/Britain and France and on the ohter Side Germany and the Soviet Union. (Yes Sir, Germany and SU where allied at this Time). This was till December 1941 (at latest) an european (hot) War.

Not interested in discussing any further mate count me out.

@ Pupo, by people i ment the Nazis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desastersoft (Post 340779)

Well, body count was begun by adonys, someone with more than questionable hypothesises ...

... and you continue. Speaks louder than words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Stormcrow (Post 340789)

Well, body count was begun by adonys, someone with more than questionable hypothesises ...

... and you continue. Speaks louder than words.

Okay, if i call you for fair Statement, i am the Bad Guy :grin:... LOL...

You are one of those Persons, what never made any historical research but talking about others. Do one Time an independent historical research about the Time between the Wars. If you do not have the ability about the Matirial, i will help you out, just ask and stop blaming, please.