no i didnt. you'r cheapening and disrespecting the tragedy your friend experienced, to bring it up here as somehow justifying your previous pro hack statements, which is why i didnt respond to it.

one moment your pretending no cheating is possible or happening, then in reply you get lots of posts proving exactly the opposite, and now your complaining the people arguing against the possibility of cheating online are actually hackers ? make up your mind.

it's this feigned ignorance and denying of how bad things are with hacks in il2 that bothers me the most with your lot posting here. half the time you dont even seem to know what is actually happening in your own little forum lair, but it doesnt seem to stop you making 50 posts pretending things are honky dory and it all doesnt matter.

fyi as a worst case scenario you now have people on full real servers flying with increased performance planes, set to no cockpits, and looking for enemy planes with fluorescent orange skins and triple sized il2 dots, etc.. does that mean this extreme form of cheating is rampant, no it isnt, but milder versions of that example are now a daily occurrence. add a gun gyro to your plane, a mirror, added visibility, its not a slippery slope, its an out of control bush fire !

i'd say asking for new hack features fits the "promoting the hack" category, dont you ?

sure , i believe you. especially after the 10 pictures you added showing the real historical 109 E often did have a mirror. it wouldnt really be a big deal using it online then right ? i mean , other planes already have mirrors to, right ?

...........
 

What was the plane set? If the Lerche wasn't included in the planeset then yes it's DEFINATELY a cheat.

I tried to D/L the ntrk, but the uploader removed it.

I can't help but think we're all being diverted away from the real argument here if we only discuss the pro's and con's of the Sound Mod in terms of whether any form of online cheating occurs...

The bigger picture is that the vast majority of IL2 play is offline rather than online (Oleg is quoted as saying approximately 95% of players are Offline players...which would fit well with industry estimates for the typical Online/Offline ratio of gameplayers) and of the people that do play online...only a proportion of them will play on Hyperlobby - with the rest playing on their own dedicated or squadron servers or through peer to peer connections...
So even if there is any cheating it is not something which will affect the vast majority of IL2 players.


Besides cheating has always been possible in IL2 - its not a new subject for discussion...Prnt Sreen, disconnecting, lag manipulation have existed for a long time...as has gamesmanship such as flaps on a slider, trim abuse, altering the gamma on your monitor so you can see through the G blackout etc etc...so to imply that before the existance of the Sound Mod everything was great, following its release everything is appalling is a complete misrepresentation of the situation...I can quote from threads about Online cheating that were posted back in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 etc etc...

Besides...how prevelent is it really? Even if it is possible to manipulate the game on closed servers...is it really occuring with any regularity? For all the ping pong arguments in this thread...there are no examples of genuine online cheating refered to here...merely examples of people showing it is possible...I can only assume that rather than servers being full of 1000 KPH Cr42s with Rayguns that in actuality life is continuing exactly as it was before the release of the Sound Mod.

And even if it did occur, surely its the responsibility of the Server Admins and players populating a server to identify and ban any offenders...If you choose to fly in an environment that allows and encourages cheating (IE: an open access serverwhere you are flying with random, anonymous people...in a competitive, stat-driven, win at all costs environment) surely you should take responsibility for making it a fair and enjoyable environment to fly in...rather than throwing that responsibility back onto the wider IL2 community who have no interest or stake in it whatsoever.

So in summary...Cheating doesn't affect most people, its not a new thing anyway, it doesn't seem to occur that often and perhaps stopping it is the concern of the hyperlobby players and server admins rather than a concern for the bulk of the IL2 community who are neither interested nor affected!

get out! you're not allowed such reasoned discourse here!
lol
ahh jason, that is about the best summary going.

No, it's not a "reasoned" discourse. It's a discourse of someone trying to proove a point and obvioulsy not sharing onliner concerns.
In an other thread I allready showed that onliners are one important part of this sim and that a big amount of the toys you're playing with in this sim were made by onliners... without them, the sim would never have became what it is now... so you can't just ignore them.
Now there's no threat on "offliners" or "free modders". hacked tools to modify at will 4.08 are available, and this will not change.... so from now on, everybody will be able to mod 4.08 to the extend he wants... and it's not gonna change.... even after 4.09 will be available.
Now there's a real potential problem online.... you want some track to proove it... just do a google search and you'll find plenty. If you want to find you will...
Discussing about it is also not going to change anything. So far by playing Aiforce War? I didn't saw obvious use of these possibilities (as somme seen on dogfight servers), but there's no doubt it's gonna come, and becomes a real problem.
My only hope is 4.09, to restore onliners confidence and keep this game still strong online until SoW:BoB.... (and in this case "free modders" will be happy with 4.08, or even 4.09 without using appropriate "CRT=3".... and onliners will be happy... )
There's absolutly no need to debate and to flame... the only thing we can do is.... wait...

I fly on several of thoose servers myselfe.....NO ONE of them have the Lerche avalible.


But thats ok, thoose tracks only show somone beeing ABLE to cheat if he WANTS to..it doesnt show someone actually flying arround and cheat.


So its all smooth sailing.


Dhuuuuuuuu.


To be perfectly honest, im having a blast reading all the inovative excuses the pro modders come up with. Havent had this much fun all year. LoL



The mirror on the Bf is a perfect example. Its all for the benefit of doing things as historicly correct as possible, right? I then wonder why IRL pilots REMOVED the mirror because it filled no purpose? lol....historically correct...suuure.

But, if there are 10 000 people who only bought the sim for offline play since orginal IL2 it surly must mean that there are 10 000 offliners active right now...doesnt it?


Same with onliners, all the 700+ online at HL at any given day..is all the same 700+ in the intire world on any given day....surly?


And like u said.....onliners are only bagage, a group that has no effect on the game what so ever. Oleg would have been twice as successfull hadnt it been for online whiners.


And Zapatista, your waisting your breath, they agreed with u and "us" long ago, they are just making u pay for being right and are enjoying every minute of it.

I know we are right, u know it, they know it, who cares if they admitt we are? They wont admitt anything, unless hell freezes over.

dont you get a bit embarrassed giving each other hand jobs in public ?

you must be the runt of the hacker litter, because you consistently make the least sense

so lets translate the jason-speak,....the point that you are making is that therefore online cheating should be allowed completely unrestricted, even promoted,, just because it doesnt matter to jason ?

not only is that absurd, but whatever little time oleg had to add the last few fixes to other import bugs in the 4.09 patch, it being the LAST chance to fix things, now wont occur as extensively because they have to plug the hack leak, thanks jason, great idea there !

the online multiplayer community has also been the most active in providing feedback, making requests, and influencing further developments in il2 since its inception. even if it is a part of total sales, rather than the complete market. and your quote is dated, it will nowadays be at least around 50%, with the increase in net access in the last years.


you'r on a roll now. so because jason cant count on his fingers how important online fair play is on ALL coop and dogfight servers for the community at large, we therefore should be bothered with hacking the files. let me ask my 9 yo if he sees the flaw in that......


thank the gods you dont have a job that matters in the real world. you'r basically saying that because influenza does exists and can affect people, that we therefore shouldn't do anything about malaria, cholera, pox, aids, ... etc. dont you see it is irrational aspect of the "logic" you are using ?

yes, lets take the argument to the absurd in order to try and make a point. your now saying that because there is not a shower of 1000 meteor's heading for the earth right now, that meteors dont matter. since you seem to live a sheltered life, maybe get out more on some of the better servers (yes, even those not on HL, presuming you can find them), and on voice comm's see what kind of observations the regulars have. most will have seen confirmations of cheating, and there has been a significant rise in reports since the sound hack started being spread into the wild.


your lack of having some rational perspective on all of this is stunning ! you've now said that the existence of a widespread hack, its open promotion and widespread use actually doesnt matter at all, since people should only use servers you like, and that fairness and honesty in the whole online community isnt important. and emm, if people are really silly enough to play with other ww2 aviation enthousiasts from around the world, then really they should have some mother hen overseeing them 24/7 to make sure each user isnt cheating. i have a simpler solution, you go play werever you want with whatever you want, and the rest of us want a simple secure way to play online without cheating.

i think you need more ram and a new cpu, then reboot and ask yourself the same questions.

This is so mundane.

Everyone knows the points of view. None of you are going to change the other persons point of view. Posting over and over and belittling each other because they refuse or don't see it your way is childsplay.

This thread has gone on far too long beating the same horse to death. The Modders see it their way "as savior to the sim" the realists see it their way "Modders are the anti-christ to the sim"

If you're so worried you are flying against people using the sound mod then go join a squad or fly only with people you know. Quite gripping to the community as a whole from a perceived lofty perch and attacking one another.

For the sake of the community both sides should save us all this crap. Don't turn this place into the Zoo!! go there and fight it out....

tools!!! go ahead flame on you can't control yourself...