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-   -   Friday 2009-10-30 Screenshots Update discussion thread (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=10809)

nearmiss 11-02-2009 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 116720)
Oleg is out today. Hopefully he'll feel better tomorrow and be back to answer questions. For now, I'll just take this one.

This just came up today for the umpteenth time. We discussed it at length.

We don't have anywhere near the time needed to animate the pilot model properly. We can put his hands on throttle and stick and feet on pedals, and then in half the cockpits he'll have other levers clipping through his body, stick clipping through his knees, etc. His arms will obscure important gauges on the dashboard.

With our new 6DOF free camera system that allows you to poke your head out the window or "bend" forward and look at the seat back, there's just no way we can animate the body to follow the camera, meaning you'd be able to twist your neck and look back on your own headless contorted body.

So, the answer is no. A poltergeist cockpit is not perfect, but the alternative is even worse.

My gosh, the knees, the knuckes, the stick, the feet are all just obstructions to the instrument panel. Occassionally, I look at the trim switches to make sure they are working and I hate having to pull back on the stick in some aircraft to see the instruments.

Too bad we can't look around the stick, but really who cares. If the stick weren't there you don't need a fix.

Also, I don't know of reading where pilots were sticking their head out of cockpit except when taxi. Otherwise, the wind was too strong at flight speeds.

6DOF with something like a freetrack or trackir would be nice.

I do like to see a pilot in the cockpit outside views, and looking across at my mates or enemies. It does make a lot more sense than viewing an aircraft in flight with an empty cockpit.

proton45 11-02-2009 11:27 PM

Hello Oleg,

I have a question about the damage model and how the damage produced by the various types of ammunition will be calculated. You have already stated that damage will be represented as a "1 shot, 1 hole" feature in the final game. But one of the oldest debates in the history of "IL2 1946" is how the 50cal damage is modeled...I'm wondering if you can share your thinking on how the game will calculate the various kinds of damage that each kind of ammo will produced.

"HE" ammo will produce a different effect then "AP", and "incendiary" ammo will inflict yet another kind of damage on the systems of a machine. What (historical) data source will you use to calculate the force of damage?

Thanks you for reading my question...I hope I have made my (thoughts) questions clear.


P.s. I'm not unhappy with the original 50 cal modeling...but I'm curious about the games future! Thanks! :)

zxwings 11-03-2009 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insuber (Post 116815)
Hi Oleg,
...

2. are you still considering an aerial gunnery training aid for beginners, e.g. a "mobile yellow dot", working as a predictive gunsight to show at any moment where to aim during the lesson ?

I believe that the training sections are key to get new adepts to our game, and the gunnery is by far one of the most difficult skills. Having a "predictive pipper" in a gunnery drill can dramatically improve the learning curve of beginners ... and of others as well... ;-)

Regards,
Insuber

:!: Such an automatic aiming mechanism may be exploited by hackers and eventually become harmful to the sim. If it exits, some people will think about transplanting it into their own online flight and use it when shooting at others. No one wants to be shot at by a hacker who has an automatic, all precise aiming pipper on his screen.

I hope I have been over-cautious here.

flyingbullseye 11-03-2009 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxwings (Post 116898)
:!: Such an automatic aiming mechanism may be exploited by hackers and eventually become harmful to the sim. If it exits, some people will think about transplanting it into their own online flight and use it when shooting at others. No one wants to be shot at by a hacker who has an automatic, all precise aiming pipper on his screen.

I hope I have been over-cautious here.

Not really, its a pretty legit concern. The guys back then didn't have that why should we? Its where practice comes in. Its understandable for beginners but instead of having an arrow or sight showing where to aim why not an instructor voice teaching where to shoot?

Flyingbullseye

zxwings 11-03-2009 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingbullseye (Post 116919)

The guys back then didn't have that why should we? Its where practice comes in.

Exactly.

TheGrunch 11-03-2009 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingbullseye (Post 116919)
Not really, its a pretty legit concern. The guys back then didn't have that why should we? Its where practice comes in. Its understandable for beginners but instead of having an arrow or sight showing where to aim why not an instructor voice teaching where to shoot?

Flyingbullseye

In fairness, how would it be any more difficult (or unfair) than hacking any of the other difficulty settings? I think the idea of it is good for beginners, and the potential for exploitation is no greater than someone for example hacking the flight dynamics or weapon ballistics. I don't see how it makes a difference if it exists as long as the anti-cheat protection in the game is up to the task.

Blackdog_kt 11-03-2009 05:08 AM

Is it just me, or do some some of us expect "weird" things from this sim? I mean, it's a matter of taste obviously and every opinion is welcome, but think about it.
Given the limited development time remaining and the need to get everything right and released within 2010, wouldn't it be more important for a flight sim to have something else modelled in place of an FPS mini-game when you get shot down? There's countless of things that could be done to enhance immersion when you're still in the cockpit, why think about what happens when we leave the cockpit when we're still this early in the sim's life?

For example, if Oleg's team told us they had time for one more cosmetic feature and put up a poll on this forum, i wouldn't vote for "let me kill some women's auxiliary baloon corp members with my luger, before i dive from the cliffs of Dover and swim across the channel back to Abbeville" :grin:
I would vote for things like historical engine start sequences, with an option to have it both ways like FSX and Black Shark. That is, you can click all the switches yourself, or press the ignition button and the AI does it for you, but there's still a check-list to go through and you can't just get it running in seconds. It would make for some interesting scramble missions, don't you think?

Or the ability to be a ground controller in multiplayer, which would only take a screen of a radar scope to implement. Maybe the ability to have animated crewmembers inside a mutli-crewed bomber and give specific orders to them like lowering gear manually, putting out a fire or giving first aid to the tail gunner, like it was in B17 II: the mighty 8th.

If we really want to run wild with ideas, there's a lot of things we haven't yet covered about the experience of flying these aircraft. In a flight sim, i think these are more important than trying to turn the game around from a flight sim to a semi-tactical shooter.

Don't get me wrong, i'd love to see servers someday where we have air, land and sea units all battling it out and it could also be done in 1:1 scale maps. If a unit was too slow (eg, infantry or tanks) or too far away from the target (like a B17 flying a 6 hour raid), we could have certain nodes and tell the AI to drive there, then the players take control. So, a fighter pilot on a CAS sortie would start inside the hangar but the infatryman would respawn at a node much closer to the action, while the heavies would be halfway across the North Sea and nearing Holland before the player jumped in and took over control from the AI. There's a load of things that could be done and a lot of terrific ideas are being proposed, i just think it's a bit early to be focusing on anything else than aircraft and air combat right now.

In any case, i'm mighty impressed during the past couple of weeks. Keep up the good work Oleg and team and as for the rest of us, let's keep the ideas going. ;)

igitur70 11-03-2009 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 116720)
Oleg is out today. Hopefully he'll feel better tomorrow and be back to answer questions. For now, I'll just take this one.



This just came up today for the umpteenth time. We discussed it at length.

We don't have anywhere near the time needed to animate the pilot model properly. We can put his hands on throttle and stick and feet on pedals, and then in half the cockpits he'll have other levers clipping through his body, stick clipping through his knees, etc. His arms will obscure important gauges on the dashboard.

With our new 6DOF free camera system that allows you to poke your head out the window or "bend" forward and look at the seat back, there's just no way we can animate the body to follow the camera, meaning you'd be able to twist your neck and look back on your own headless contorted body.

So, the answer is no. A poltergeist cockpit is not perfect, but the alternative is even worse.


Bad news. I warmly suggest to insert it as an option and let the player choose whether he likes it or not.

HFC_Dolphin 11-03-2009 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igitur70 (Post 116941)
Bad news. I warmly suggest to insert it as an option and let the player choose whether he likes it or not.

Good day,

Didn't you notice this part of the reply:
We don't have anywhere near the time needed to animate the pilot model properly.

Simple as that, they can't do it within the time schedule they have.

HFC_Dolphin 11-03-2009 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt (Post 116931)
Is it just me, or do some some of us expect "weird" things from this sim?

I hope they don't ask for a device link to a vibrator, that will make them...feel the turbulence :D

You are right, though there are things that can be added, with not much cost, in the game and add to it a lot.
It doesn't have to be the...walking from enemy lines to friendly territory (as Feuerfalke said, you can always play some FPS game), but adding some more RPG features (ONLY in stats/missions/other data and NOT in graphics which need a lot of development), this would make the game appealing to a much bigger audience.

Anyway, I'm sure that with every update, we'll see a lot of weird requests, but who knows, there might be some interesing ones as well, and Oleg & Co get inspired to make the game as good as they can.


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