Official Fulqrum Publishing forum - Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks (Post 415162)

However contrary to the Spitfire I manual the Spitfire II manual does not state that the boost control cut-out will provide +12 boost and that it is authorized for short time and emergency.

That the cut-out will provide +12 boost is obvious, it has the same boost control as the Merlin III and it is also proven by the later amendments.
The question that remains is when it was authorized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks (Post 413498)

Now that's a interesting find. The page without amendments only give +12 boost for take-off, but the 1939 documents states +12.5 boost for take-off.

However it's still clear from the June 1940 "List of content" that the page that contains the +12 emergency boost was not contained at that date and was added later and at that date only the page without +12 emergency boost was contained.

IMHO the easiest would be to get the combat reports of the "units concerned" (pun intended ;) ) to find one that proofs the use of +12 in a Spitfire II or search in the National Archives for a similar doc like the one that clears the use of +12 emergency boost for Merlin XX.

Hi 41Sqn_Banks,

Please examine the following documentation showing Spitfire IIs of 611 Squadron using emergency boost in combat on 21 August 1940. This was very shortly after the Sptifire II first went operational in the RAF.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...3aug40-orb.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...1aug40-orb.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...g40-orb541.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...-21aug40-1.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...-21aug40-2.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurfürst (Post 417083)

Hi David,

Can we see the full contents of AVIA 10/282 between November 1939 and November 1940?

As I have said before that is a file of many documents. If you want it that bad you can always ask for it.

However all I want to know if you still believe that the RAF only had approx 145 fighters with 100 octrane, that was the last time you gave me a figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lane (Post 417112)

Thank you. That's a remarkable find and the proof I was looking for.

Another great find Lane, much thanks:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fruitbat (Post 417138)

Another great find Lane, much thanks:)

+1
It's interesting to note that there are nine Spitfire Is from the first 'K' and second 'N' production series; those delivered to 611 Sqn were:
N3050 Ia 338 EA MIII FF 28-9-39 8MU 30-9-39 611S 1-3-40
N3051 Ia 340 EA MIII FF 29-9-39 8MU 2-10-39 611S 1-3-40
N3052 Ia 341 EA MIII FF 30-9-39 8MU 2-10-39 611S 1-3-40
N3053 Ia 342 EA MIII FF 1-10-39 24MU 5-10-39 611S 25-1-40
N3054 Ia 343 EA MIII FF 2-10-39 24MU 5-10-39 611S 25-1-40
N3055 Ia 344 EA MIII FF 3-10-39 fitt TR1133 24MU 5-10-39 611S 25-1-40
N3056 Ia 345 EA MIII FF 2-10-39 24MU 5-10-39 611S 25-1-40
N3057 Ia 346 EA MIII FF 3-10-39 24MU 4-10-39 611S 25-1-40
N3058 Ia 347 EA MIII FF 4-10-39 24MU 7-10-39 611S 25-1-40
N3059 Ia 348 EA MIII FF 5-10-39 27MU 7-10-39 611S 25-1-40
N3060 Ia 349 EA MIII FF 4-10-39 27MU 7-10-39 611S 25-1-40
N3061 Ia 350 EA MIII FF 6-10-39 27MU 10-10-39 611S 15-2-40
N3062 Ia 351 EA MIII FF 6-10-39 27MU 10-10-39 611S 15-2-40
N3063 Ia 353 EA MIII FF 7-10-39 27MU 10-10-39 611S 15-2-40
N3064 Ia 352 EA MIII FF 6-10-39 27MU 10-10-39 611S 15-2-40
N3065 Ia 354 EA MIII FF 8-10-39 611S 16-3-40
N3066 Ia 355 EA MIII FF 9-10-39 9MU 11-10-39 611S 16-3-40
N3070 Ia 359 EA MIII FF 11-10-39 6MU 16-10-39 54S 18-11-39 611S 16-12-39
N3072 Ia 361 EA MIII FF 12-10-39 6MU 12-10-39 54S 18-11-39 611S 18-12-39
N3099 Ia 370 EA MIII FF 17-10-39 8MU 19-10-39 611S 21-1-40

From http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/p002.htm

When was 611 Sqn converted to 100 Octane fuel? Nine of them by 21/3/40...

K9963 Ia 176 EA MII FF 4-5-39 602S 8-5-39 AST 27-11-39 611S 4-6-40

All of these Spitfires had engines built well before AP1590/J.2-W was issued, showing that the required modifications on early Merlin IIIs were well in hand on 611 Sqn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seadog (Post 412366)

I have repeatedly challenged you to produce evidence of even a single Spitfire/Hurricane 87 octane operational squadron combat sortie during the BofB. This should be an easy task if, as you contend, the majority of RAF FC Spitfire/Hurricane operational squadrons were using 87 Octane fuel.

So I'll issue the challenge again and again, until you answer it or admit that your contention is unsupported by the historical record.

I'm still waiting for a reply.

Again, where's the evidence for even a single combat sortie flown with 87 octane fuel? We have numerous sources that state full conversion to 100 octane and a complete lack of documentary evidence of 87 octane fuel use by Spitfire/Hurricane operational squadrons during the BofB.

Just one 87 octane sortie...and you can't provide evidence for even that. How pathetic..

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks (Post 417123)

Thank you. That's a remarkable find and the proof I was looking for.

Yes and thanks for the update in bug 174 Banks. I'll be updating it for Artist to edit later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seadog (Post 417512)

Just one 87 octane sortie...and you can't provide evidence for even that. How pathetic..

Since it has been stated that there was a shortage of 100 fuel, I would like to see some references to a/c staying on the ground due to this shortage, like what happened in Germany late war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter (Post 417520)

Since it has been stated that there was a shortage of 100 fuel, I would like to see some references to a/c staying on the ground due to this shortage, like what happened in Germany late war.

Personally I would like to see any evidence of :-
a) a shortage of fuel
b) of 16 squadrons
c) of which squadrons or bases
d) why this isn't mentioned in any official document, book, history
e) of the process in delivering the fuel
f) when the rest of FC were transfered to 100 octane

in fact anything Crumpp and Kururst claim

Glider,

Why don't you state exactly what it is in your mind that you think I am claiming, first?

This is what I have said and is backed up by the facts:

In July of 1940, 100 Octane fuel was not the standard fuel of Fighter Command.