I´m used to mods of other games,and usually,patches come faster but if there is an patch issue,the problem is simply neglected or if the problem is quite big,a patch of the patch is released.
Looks like in IL2 things are far different.

You said there might be stuff in 4.10 that wasn´t told here,or did I read things?

Yes, the New Guinea may be a possible along with some other things not mentioned.

Be at peace, and patient.

You will undoubtably be a happy camper soon.

At this stage in the game to tell you the truth if TD was to address some of the issues with the beltings and FMs of some planes..some of the known issues... that are documented.. considering everything else that is in this patch I would seriously consider having the 99th drop the mods altogether if we could get back on some kind of normal footing int eh community.

I'm really looking forward to bombers that have to fly smooth after 4.10. Escort becomes more important (and make more sense) as soon as bombers loose the capability of "flying like dragonflies". :-)

Oleg appears to still be in the loop, especially with regard to FMs.

The IL2 Online is probably the principal reason. As I recall the P-51 in IL2 is approximately a half meter shorter in the FM than it was in the actual aircraft. That has got to be a significant difference for Online play.

If I were a P51 online pilot I'd probably want TD to leave that one alone. LOL

Wasn't that bug limited to the P-51D-5 and D-20 only? The B and C were not affected?

Quick update since there is not much to show right now.

1. Testing/polishing of 4.10 continues.

2. We got some annoying HW problems with our development forum. We hope to get them fixed soon.

3. Summer is here and some of the key DT members are enjoying their deserved vacation time which slows things down a bit.

4. We would appreciate less conspiracy theories here. We have stated couple months ago that the frequency of updates would be much reduced due to testing. Please check the green text on the first page of this topic thread. The testing is still in progress. Should we keep posting this same message every Thursday?

5. Yes, we know very well we are behind the original schedule, but we have also included more content than we have originally planned when the schedule was announced.

Last but not least, thank you for your patience.

I don't recall, but I never flew anything but the Ds.

Cheers Daidalos Team!
I know I speak for several of my friends who so appreciate your talents and body of work when I say that it will be well worth the wait when you release your 4.10 product! To see the proposed addition that will come to the base IL-2 software from your team's endeavors is truly very exciting and thrilling to us long time flight sim aficionados! It saddens us when some people in there inpatients say things that are very rude and uncaring. I truly hope that you'll see that they are indeed in the minority with the rest of the IL-2 fan base community. We can only imagine the hours of dedicated time and energy that you are putting into this release. The accolades and applause that you'll receive from us I hope will bring satisfaction for a job well done and be rewarding to you. Please also know that all of your efforts will not go unnoticed and be very much appreciated by all that use it! And we hope that the team members who’ll be taking vacations have very restful, relaxing, and rejuvenating times.
With that I say Bon Chance and all the best!
- CraigNT55

That's absolutely clear, but woldn't it be better to start with something, and then continue with following patches?

Well... people also complain about to many patches, but well... it seems that SOW will be also late... so...

Just keep it going.

Who cares about SOW? If and whenever it comes out, we will all be sitting in retirement houses and our eyes will be so bad we don't play SOW anyway... ;)

In the meantime i keep playing with the best recent simulator, with all the new aircraft and maps.

SOW will have a hard time to beat IL2-1946's lifespan.

Just my 2 cents... :)

Buh? You've never flown any other Mustang?

There may be, at most, five or six planes in IL-2 that I haven't flown extensively.

Weird :)

Anyways the B/C handle differently than the D. I assumed it was because of the razorback but it could have been this FM bug too.

Quite agree. All hail TD!

May we will have news after World Cup, TD team is in South Africa. :twisted::mrgreen::roll:

Final of 1974 will be re-edited. Now i am with Germans. Go Deustchland!

No, the Netherlands will win! (If they aren't going to make blunders...)

As long as the Dutch don't score instantly and try to sit on it for 90 minutes! Even as a twelve year old I knew they were asking for trouble when they tried that!

Too bad more people aren't like you eh?

Then of course if there were no people anticipating SOW it would be foolish to continue spending all the money and effort to produce it.

Oleg will only better his own IL2 with BOB SOW, no one else has bettered his IL2.

Oleg is raising the bar against his own application, that's cool with me.

Actually, you are the first who isn't like me... ;) By the way, my post about SOW wasn't meant to be too serious (read: wink).

Newer things aren't always better, although developers most of the time think the other way.

Time will tell about SOW, we'll see.

Oleg vs. Oleg - who will win? Talk about a match of historic proportions!

btw ..are we getting the floaty variant of the Stringbag eventually ??

Sorry mate, you had to beat Spain first, you forgot that little detail...

¡Vamos España!

At less we ll have a new first time world champion. There was long years since i do not see Brazil, Italy or Germany in World Cup dinal. Since I was born this 3 teams are always on finals.

+1

Will the inclusion of MDS in 4.10 include the support for defined friction values for airfields?

Cheers, Neil :)

holland! World cup!!

HOLLAND!!! *PWAAAAAOOOOOOOOAAAAAP*
Does anybody know if the vuvuzela's will be included in 4.10 update?:confused:
Just kidding:rolleyes:

Bf109's already have them mounted on the flaps! :-P


Hs129 will have them too BTW... ;)

Njet!, not Henschels but Stukas did have vuvuzelas below her wings to scare weak souls !!

But nobody will scare us ! AUPA ESPAÑA !! UP SPAIN !! , and UP PAUL THE MAGIC OCTOPUSSY! :grin: :-P

Hahaha! You guys are hillarious :).

Fafnir_6

Ha! Nice one

Paul the Octopus predicts : The sim fan wins; Oleg goes for a re-match with SOW:MTO

Stukas already had Vuvuzelas on the wings.
Maybe V-1s too.

Hs 123 instead of 129 maybe?

Hs 123 is interesting too...Would say it´s the german Cr.42 counterpart.

And Spain won the match.The octopus is NEVER wrong.
If I had it,it could tell me the lottery numbers...

48 days and counting, no news! We are patient but an update would be appreciated! If there are problems please tell us, we WILL understand, just keep us in the loop please.

is it ready yet? :confused:

There was news... page 122. Timestamp: 07-02-2010, 03:32 PM

>4. We would appreciate less conspiracy theories here. We have stated couple months ago that the frequency of updates would be much reduced due to testing. Please check the green text on the first page of this topic thread. The testing is still in progress. Should we keep posting this same message every Thursday?

I think it would be good to update the first message of this thread every 1-2 weeks. That way people know that you're still working on it.

Do you think they are just going to give up and walk away from the project?

I think that from the 4.11 patch, TD should just tell us it'll be done when it is, and it'll contain what they choose to put in. If they are feeling generous they might feed us a little info on what it might contain, but setting a timetable just so people can endlessly complain about it not being met seems counterproductive. How often do people need to be told that TD are working on this in their spare time, and actually have lives to get on with?

I hope they won't give up, but I know several interesting SW projects that were in progress for a long time and then canceled.

I agree with what you wrote about setting timetables. When you're working on big project on your spare time, "when it's done" makes more sense both for the developers and users.

4.10 turned in 4.11 cause August is the original release date of the last one. :evil:

4.10 will be 4.10

Ernst, be careful or the 4.10 will come with a hidden bit of code that will make the patch work in all computers but yours. (This will be the electronic version of a waiter spitting in you food)

All of us we are anxious to install the 4.10 patch on our Computers but this is a free material developed by IL2 fans on his spare time. We must stay patient and wait without stress.

The delay on release of 4.10 patch don't prevent us from enjoying this simulator.

Well said!

Yes we are enjoying the sim but i am curious about how server ll use 4.10 tools. Moving Dogfight ll allow online wars run a single for hours and no need to reload to actualize war progress. This is a feature ll change the possiblities with respect to online wars like adw. I expect they use new 4.10 moving dogfight servers to enhance the possibilities. Actually in IL2 they the dynamic of the wars is quite limited.

To that who do not know about adw:

www.adw.alkar.net

New wars ll come at release of 4.10, cause that i could not wait anymore.

Sorry! I must have missed seeing that one. I usually look at the first page for news.

Ernst, if you want to try the Moving DogFight Server, you don't need to wait the release of 4.10 patch. The Zuti MDS mod is abalaible now on the v1.3... Search on the net....

No worries. The original post should probably be modified with all of the updates but that was a quick one. Easy to miss :)

Well, nothing really new, but as its the last thing, beeing developed beside the beta test phase, its the only thing to show. So, just worth a quick posting.

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/thumbs/fn96-2.jpg
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/thumbs/fn96-3.jpg
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/thumbs/fn96-1.jpg


And because I really like this little chubby plane, something for your desktops:

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/thumbs/fn96-5.jpg
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/thumbs/fn96-6.jpg

:rolleyes:

Very Nice Plane!!! :D!

Great Re.2000 shots, Caspar! I can't wait to fly the "chubby" plane as you put it :).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

I had to change links, so our server will not be stressed too much. Tell me please if it doesn't work for you.

Nice shots mate http://www.mission4today.com/images/smiles/woo.gif

Hope all is going well with the testing.

~S~

Excellent! Thanks for the update!

huh?

Hey update!!! :)
Thanks!
Nice little plane over a nice map :)

Thanks!

Are those new buildings I see in the backround?

Slovakia map, 4.09m

;)

Hi, I can remember some Nightfighter videos you have posted a while ago, and everybody knows there is the Grumman incident, but how is it with the P-61, it was build by Northrop.
Today it`s one company, but they don`t own the military designation for their birds. Do I see it right and would be the 61 a nice lady for pacific theaters Nighthunting scenarios?

Can´t wait to fly the Re.2000. (want to fly the 2002 too,and maybe more than the 2000).

Gonna see the Hs-129.Can it be used for heavy fighter role?

P-61 is subject to "the Grumman thingy". Which means it's not for TD.

Why are FsX developers allowed to use "Grumman" ect. trademarks? Shame for Il2

Aw, too bad.

Are we getting the Italian or Hungarian versions of the RE2000? As I remember it, the Italians weren't fond of it so it mainly went to Hungary and Sweden - with Hungary changing out the engine and armament. It's the latter I'm interested in - an RE2000 without the Breda popguns.

Damnation - they changed the gun but kept the cartridge (if indeed it can be called that).

Sorry if this has been covered before but what exactly is "the Grumman thingy"?

~S~

A copyright issue which reared its head quite a few years ago. Discussion and speculation about it are not encouraged, 'nuff said.

B

Maybe it's time to discuss it again?

It seems they changed their Trademark Licensing Policy

http://www.northropgrumman.com/ipm/tmpolicy.html

:cool:

It doesn't look like the situation has changed. Northrop Grumman is still claiming to hold copyrights relating to 'electronic or video games'. In any case, as I understand it there was a legally-binding settlement reached, which presumably still stands.

Personally, I have serious doubts that Northrop Grumman's claims would stand up in court, but since it isn't my money to risk, I can't blame software developers for not taking them on. If NG want to erase themselves from history, that is their problem...

NG forced Ubi and 1C to sign a contract, which prohibits them from using images of vehicles to which NG owns copyright in the IL-2 game and it's add-ons.

Which means, 1C still can not use them in the game.

Plus, what AndyJWest said.

What aircraft did Northrop Grumman manufacture that may not show themselves in SoW updates?

That's a little forward thinking I know, but once the SoW simulation engine is released to third-parties (already has been I think), what aircraft will they not be able to have in SoW expansion packs for fear of treading on toes and being sued?

Just wondering how this may/could affect future developments?

Cheers, MP

Anything made by Northrop, Grumman, or any company they have acquired, ever. This takes in most of the US ship building business, so it would include a very large number of suface ships used by the US Navy in the second world war.

This was discussed at length when the issue first raised it's head at the release of Pacific Fighters. Following the NG corporate family tree would also mean that many ships used by the US in World War One would also be off limits.

Just invetigate N-G's website and trace the corporate history.

It will be a serious dent in the Korean war as well.

Read again, it's about:

Ubi and 1C sold a commercial product - TD is not.
Pretty much changes everything.

I thought the N-G issue only applied to IL-2 and it's add ons.
Unfortunately this seems to include TD work as well.:(

But SoW is a totally new product, so hopefully it will not be included in the N-G legal contract.
Maybe just a lot of wishfull thinking on my part.:confused:

Jeez - is it so hard to understand?

If you make money using their some of their intellectual property, they want their fair share aka royalties.
Not more, not less.

Well, TD does not, that's why I think they could get NG's ok.

You have a few hundred thousand $$$ ready just in case NG doesn't follow your argument? No? We don't, either. As such it is simple - let sleeping dogs lie. TD won't touch anything NG-related as Oleg specifically asked us not to. End of discussion.

Soooo, do the Grumman Wildcat and Hellcat not apply to the copyright issue? How were they incorporated into the game, but not some battleships, and other aircraft?

but TD is making official patches for a 1C game.

i would not risk any money for lawyers !!!

Grumman stuff is dead................. blame them , not the gamedevelopers.
and true, for future PTO and Korean stuff i have no good hopes because of that !


what a 3.party modeller will bring in the game, without making money, THAT is another story i guess. but TD is in the sence of Law no 3.party.

Aircraft as Wildcat and Hellcat were what Ubi and Oleg had to pay for ... Any other NG-related item (such as the battleships) means NG will hold out its hand and wait for Oleg to shove some cash their way.

man, because there was a secret agreement between UBI, 1C and NG, means most propably NG got already money for the already in PF existing NG stuff !!!
hence the delay of the PacificFighters release - and if there would have not been an agreement , it would have benn never released....................
but sure, UBI and 1C dont want pay more money to put more NG stuff in its game.

anyone has some datas about this Gebauer MG ?
as it used the same 12,7mm SAFAT round it most propably had the same V0 put it had perhaps a higher rate of fire - as it was driven by the engine crankshaft.............

No I just thought, maybe, someone could ask.

If there already are violations - then we better don't.

Ok, thanks for clearing that one up - Such a shame really. So, did the boys at Microsoft also pay up?

Exactly the point. This patches are still released under 1C logo, copyright and supervision, which makes them subject of the agreement between 1C and NG. Agreement includes both paid and free add-ons.

Most definitely they did. The amount, they demanded and received is something like 6 digit sum. Which was sliced from 1C share (Ubi escaped unhurt, as far, as I heard, so don't quote me on that ;) ).

... At least in US.

Exactly.

How does it affects SoW and it's possible future add-ons is still unclear. We will see later.

Apparently, one of the NG chairman was also a Microsoft higher authority at the time. Don't know, if it connected in any way. :rolleyes:

And I don't really know, if IL-2 success really had any affect on CFS-3 sales... :rolleyes:

Most probably this things are totally unrelated. :grin:

Is that true?

sure !!

Okay TD, stepping away from N-G issues, here's a question I hope you may me able to answer.

Is there an easy way to add an option in FMB, that allows users to add custom skins to static aircraft? I say that as I mean without cheating?

To be able to put aircraft on a base and then just 'skin' them as you do with flyable and AI aircraft would be a huge advantage. Is this possible for 4.11 if not already considered for 4.10?

Secondly, is there a list yet (I'm sure there is) of additions that are expected to be in 4.10? I do try and keep up with the updates, but sometimes I miss some.

Cheers, MP

+a million

This would be massive for mission builders.

Thanks for the update TD-R.E.2000 looking great!

Shame on N-G !!

N-G would deserve that 1C had undermodeled FM/DM of all NG planes in this Sim so no virtual pilots would fly them, as word of being a piece of crap or flying bricks would spread across the SIM community. :)

May be this could help NG to change their mind and let Wildcats and Hellcats to play their historical relevant role in our virtual air wars, once this bloody agreement had been erased and FM and DM had been restored to the original one.

But as someone said, this is an old history. Let the sleeping "cats" to sleep :)

They produced ships too???

Nah,I like the F4F.Both to fly and to shoot down.

Not a chance.

Northrop Grumman is a company that has been fined at various times for:
- faking cruise missile test results to gain sales
- illegally selling proscribed high tech nav equipment to small Asian states as well as Angola, China and Ukraine and Yeman
- fabricated test results for electronic parts used in navigation systems for military planes, helicopters and submarines,
- currently being sued for knowingly selling faulty aircraft tot eh USN in the 1990's
- fined for overcharging for products purchased by the US Space program in the 1990's
- amusingly was fined for providing portions of the computer source code of Air Force One to a company in Russia in 1998 :D
- has on numerous occasions been fined for blackmail/bribery of political figures and foreign nationals in an effort to secure sales

Northrop Grumman REALLY REALLY do not care if the upset a few software companies and computer gamers.

Actually, any corporation of such size wouldn't care about that. :) And there really is no reason to deliberately make performance of their planes different from RL because of their behavior.

I don't know. I remember I was on my third flight with the Hs-129 (using mods). I was attacked by three Yak-1s and I shot them all down. The Hs-129 can't make a fully 360 degree turn without losing its airspeed (drag+underpowered).

The upshot of this is that it loses so much speed in a 90 degree turn that it ends up behind/beside its attacker and a quick burst of Mg-151 can easily be issued. So it can be used in a "mouse trap" type of manoeuvre/fight.


True enough.

However, they need sales to government. Governments which are elected. Which means that contracts can become political.

I don't know why you guys don't mobilise your veterans associations. These aircraft were paid for with tax money and the history they participated in was paid for in the blood of citizens.

A distant descendent of a company is allowed to prevent depictions of history where U.S. soldiers died? I find the idea offensive in the extreme.

Unfortunately, I am a Canadian and I have no right to tell you Yanks what to do. But I wouldn't put up with it for a minute, and the Vet lobby can produce bad PR for a company with military contracts.

It can shoot quite violently at anything, that comes in front of it. So why not? :grin:

Of course its not a nimble or fast plane and will have a hard time against almost every opponent. Even most bombers can fly away from it.
On the other side its slowness and stable flightbehaviour is perfect for poundering ground units - to this will be its main role (as it was).

For now it will be only the Series I Falco, displaying the export version (as it served in Hungary, Sweden and also Italy in small numbers).
There is an option for the hungarian 'Heija' with different engine/guns and maybe the 'hunchback'ed G.A. (series III - long range). Nothing to be promised now, but will be thought over and decided later.

JUst in-case this was a thread about patch 4.10?

Dear TEam Daidalos.

As I'm starting my holydays today and because I will be without conection or computer for a month I humbly request NOT TO RELEASE 4.10 at least until september.

THanks (I'm sure you will grant my wish)