Got a Track? It would be interesting to see what was happening.

I read the post refered to and it all seemed to make sense.

'they' the gunners? We all know how accurate they are, thats why you have to use the 'right' tactics or they will nail you every time.

Attack from the rear = low or nill defection shooting and slow closing speed - perfect condition for gunners.
Slashing Attack from side = high deflection shot shooting and high closing speed - harder for gunners, also the side gunners have realitively small fields of fire.


That's the point isn't it? There are no serious rivals! Development for Il-2 has stopped. But even though we're all waiting for SOW, IL2 still has a lot of life left in the old girl yet.

cheers!

For some people the faults are always elsewhere but not themselves.
One should always do the best with what is there, not what one whishes it should be there.

I have noticed when playing online that when i attack a Bomber the gunners seem to be superb shots they even continue firing when their plane has broken in half. However whenever i fly a bomber my gunners seem to be about has much use has a 'chimney on a dog'. :grin::grin:

Robtek,

read the whole thread that i referred.

no my friend, it is a problem, using the right tactics is a part of the game but against a fair enemy

after all THIS IS A GAME!

you me and all others have payed for this and we deserve to expect a fair gaming experience.

imagine this, playing online,

you take off,
you fly 4-5 mins to reach combat zone,
you search for enemy for an other 2-3 mins maybe more,
you find a target (a bomber) coming,
you begin to dive,
suddenly bumm!!!...beyond a cloud!!,
a bomber gunner hits you beyond your visual&gun range

i can understand this or some likely situations as a coincidence or as a low ratio of possibility, shit can happen thats normal but,

they(gunners) are repeating it!

nearly 10 mins of gaming wasted, imagine this repeats after and after,

some players are using bombers as dogfighters and there is no solution to this.

my problem is about this "no-solution" issue, and i cant accept the answer no.

we and you and all other deserve this.

Just wondering
 

When you announces the release date for bob will you do it here 1st ?
On this site.

Watch out, this is a no whining thread about BoB SoW, if you want to whine about IL*2, I advise you to do it in the thread you posted a link to.

I am not a moderator, this is not official, just friendly advice.

i am not whining, i am underlining a inadequence that is obvious in the current game in order to not to repeat it.

All games have problems with gunner accuracy. They are either too inaccurate (European Air War), or too accurate (IL2).

The post you referenced was mine. I'm not saying AI is one of the strong points of IL2, it never was. I love this simulator and fly it more than anything else, but the truth is like that. On the bright side of it though, we know enough about gunners in IL2 to avoid getting repeatedly killed in annoying ways.

Heck, even in the new Rise of Flight some people have complained about gunners. They are accurate out to a range of 500 meters or more and that's with rifle-caliber machine guns and unstable biplanes. In contrast, the flyable fighters that the player can use are so unstable that they bob up and down all the time. I don't have that game but people who have it say that you need to get VERY close, less than 100m, to score a good % of hits. Anything above 150m the Spads and Fokkers shake so much that you're lucky if you get 5 hits or so in a 2 second burst. And yet, the gunners can shoot to 500m or so.

I think it's a combination of factors. On one hand, it would consume too much CPU power to calculate G-effects and realistic AI routines for so many gunners, so they use some simplified algorithms that will look more or less ok in the grand scheme of things.
Maintaining a grand scheme of things that agreees with casualty rate reports from real combat is the second reason. Because the algorithms for gunners are simpler than the algorithms for AI pilots, they would be too easy and the player would get too many bomber kills. For example, in European Air War i could kill 18 B17s with my FW190 before running out of ammo and i was attacking from their dead six, they were that bad.

So, the designer has to make sure that killing bombers is not too easy, while saving CPU power for other more important stuff. And that's why in the end the gunners can shoot very accurately and very far, but they can't really follow you through certain attack maneuvers because they are "stupid" due to their simplified algorithms. I have a track of me killing 4 B17s with a FW190A3 in IL2 and they are set to veteran or ace (don't remember which). They didn't even damage my engine. You can do it, as long as you observe the way they function.

It doesn't matter if you come from dead six, from the sides or from the top. Fly in a line that looks straight to the gunner and he will get you. Fly in a way that might be straight but looks different from the gunner's point of view and you will survive. They can't really follow you if you do it right, they can shoot very well and very far but only if it looks like you're going straight from where they are sitting. ;)

I kind of enjoy the AI they don't seem to be that uber to me. Naturaly if you come straight at them they will get ya. Vary alt. slightly on approach and you will find that throws them off well

ok ok ok,

seems that everyone is ok with the game,

how silly and how stupid i am to try to point out something like that!

i wouldnt aware there was that much people who are more royalist than the king...