not even Einstein could conceive an effective method of defining a single object's position and velocity at the same moment... even with his theory of relativity

the object's course and velocity could be defined over a range of moments or it's position for any given moment, but not velocity and position at the same moment. ("moment", of course being a snapshot)

Untestable empirically.
Not provable mathematically or logically.
Might be a useful philosophical or mathematical tool in some respects, but then so are counterfactuals, which are also untrue.
Confuses the civilians.

All in all it would be better if you left the word "exists" to its normal use (you know, for things that actually do exist like flight-simmers, kittens and the idea of possible parallel universes) and instead used the world "grolphs".

Then you could say "parallel universes grolph in parallel to this universe, not as mathematical objects in this universe though" ;)

Love these discussions.

So is Heisenberg next?

perhaps ;)

err, when all these theories were thought up and calculations made(bearing in mind that earlier rock solid calculations and theories have been modified according to new facts), did any of them take eveything into account?

something asked before: some witnesses have stated that the UFO/s they saw took off at immense (seemingly impossible) speed and other made sharp 90 degree turns at high speed. how could this be?

[QUOTE=NedLynch;320593] Something that puzzles me is also, if the universe is finite one should be able theoretically to reach it's end and to look at it from the outside. But what is on the outside, another finite universe, infinite space, nothing? QUOTE]

if the universe is finite then there is no outside.

in other words, there is no exsistance outside of the universe, because there is no outside.

[QUOTE=patrat1;320872]in theory evrything that exists is filled with the 'void' beyond the universe....all the space between atoms is just empty nothing.

Well nothing in theory land is ever rock solid as far as i'm concerned.
It's just the way we try to discribe reality

As in maths the problems begin when we try to interpret things.
Or should I say "fun".

the old way to negate free will was determinism

but then they realized it didnt impli no free will but that even things ahve free will

failing they invented the many world theories

if you take all choices you take none you have no free will

the true is the universe is deterministic as matrix explains you take choices outised time and then live it to know why you took that choice :)

[QUOTE=bongodriver;320877]Actually there is no "empty" space, anywhere. Even the darkest intergalactic voids are filled with passing neutrinos and momentary particle/anti-particle pairs that appear briefly to cancel each other out.

The only thing that "travels" faster than the speed of light is the expansion of the universe itself witch is causing the space & time between everything and everything else to expand like raisins on a rising loaf of bread.

Ironically, recent calculations from WMAP observations show the universe to be flat within about 15% accuracy.

Chew on some of that. :-P

Yes, the Earth was flat at one stage too, as well it was "provable" that the sun (geo-centrics) revolved around the Earth... It is only logical that if the sun, moon, planets and stars are seen to be moving and we are not, it must be because they are moving... here! I ask you (they said at the time) is the Earth moving? no (they replied) we cannot see that the Earth is moving... good, it was offered, it proves without a doubt that the Earth is the centre of all the heavens.


yeah right :rolleyes:


Which brings me back to my question of; some witnesses saw UFo's zip off at high speed and others said they performed sharp 90 degree turns at high speed.

Why is it that we on Earth move with the Earth, and aren't flung off or find moving against her rotation difficult, with gyroscopic events such as the corioli effect being apparent?

Could it be, that gravity and magnetic field act as a kind of integrity field, making all behave as one?
The corioli effect of throwing a ball between two people on opposites of a playground carousel apply whichever way the carousel is spinning.
Do UFO's run a something similar field, thus enabling them to operate as a contained unit in which ship and occupants move as one??