Historical and unfair advantage in gaming are two VERY different things. You can go in a stock server and use stuff like that when the others there are expecting you to not have them. How hard is that to understand? The difference with TR is that the team that actually made IL2 made it with TR in mind.

Rather stunning, and sadly, such an absolute waste.....You pro-modders have no idea of the potential you are throwing away. Yet you are, and more so being adults yet doing as a youngster would who scolded, so instead of acknowledging being that everyone knows, continues to compound it as though after enough times a wrong will become right.


Fact of the matter is simple, and everyone here knows it no amount of simply claiming opposite makes it not so......

* The sim was hacked....That was wrong.
* Those hacks and how to do so were released to the world whether available or not inconsequential as I bet 90% of the folks here had no idea how and devoted little time to it....That was wrong yet could of been corrected yet wasn't *1*.
* To avoid admitting the wrong of above, and suddenly greeted by the aclaim of many even more were generated and still are....and that was wrong to a point *1*
* It was stated by many from the beginning that the irresponsibility of sharing this work the way it was (laid out and exposed)....was wrong *1*
* Everyone realizes that when alterations (mods) are made that make an advantage of some over others for ANY reason....That is wrong *1*
* and anyone with even a shred of common sense knows there have always been cheaters in the sim, that the reason many have not is they didn't know how (and no matter how slight the advantage it's still a cheat) and therefor opened and exposed the cheating will simply get worse....It's simply common sense *1*

All the spamming, trying to recruit others to get on the bandwagon, claims there is nor can be such, and rediculous points of arguments and trolling simply compounding all the wrongs as there has all this time been a chance to make it right....and it's been deliberately ignorred as though the second the wrongs are acknowledged trying to make it right....Then you'll have to deal with admitting the wrongs.

You can get 99.999% of the players here to go along with it...It doesn't make it right, it only makes 99.999% of the players doing wrong.........So how do you make it right? *1*


*1*
It can't be undone, we all know that........Yet to continue as it has been only makes the problems we all know are coming compounded.....As I have said over and over and over, it's time for the pro-modding community to step up and try and make the wrongs of above livable for all.......As we ALL must live with the ramification we ALL know is coming.

First off, the tools and the help given to tearing apart the SFS are so distributed now it having been so long it's too late to stop the damage to be done there...A month ago or more maybe.

Next, the mods generated to date need to be collected, organized and recompiled into groups....Groups like default skins, AI flyables, sight alterations and so on.....Once done, the modders need to take a very very hard look at the work insuring it is up to the quality standard we've come to expect from Maddox Games. Those that don't either get reworked or tossed out...Then these things have to be tested thoroughly to insure no conflicts, bugs or errors.................Sounding like a pain in the rump yet? Well this is what Maddox games had to do with every patch and hence subsequent ones to fix errors found. Not that any of your mods have had bugs or errors ;) awful familiar huh to what's been going on for years.

You must also, and this is a gigantic task, insure without a doubt that every single button and screw is historically accurate......BS like "well 500 planes had these out of 5,000" or "it looks ok to me even though I'm handed proof to the contrary" or "I think I read somewhere once" simply will not fly and will not be tolerated by a big portion of the community........The historical accuracy is what keeps people here, not the arcade "kinda sorta maybe's"........Find something like I mentioned before about spit sights, some had them some didn't?.......No problem, there is a NEW version of the plane, that way you don't have someone having an advantage over another unfairly...EIther one or the other version or is in the planeset used to possibly both...Yet then EVERYONE is on the same page.....Additional/new weapons, n/p get em right and accurate and add them into loadouts if all types had them or just the sub types applicable.......(and don't even try to tell us you're not going there, if not today you will tomorrow how it is, simply human nature).

Once you have a patch it MUST be recompiled in such a way that joe lazy cheater cannot simply look at the zipped files and instantly see what he can alter further......I'm assuming to some degree you're already doing this or are beginning to find the means from your .exe's. It MUST be presented in this way, or you're only compounding the wrongs above.

The patch above then should change the version number....Why? As that way, everyone who uses mods is on the exact same page not some having advantages over others.....Guess what, it works for non-modders to as their version doesn't match!....Kinda kills that whole unfair advantage and potential cheaters via the mod argument doesn't it?

On and on......It's simple, face the music, admit the wrong by TRYING TO CORRECT IT....That what we adults do, we face it, try and fix it the best we can and then and only then can you say you made a responsible effort.

Fact of the matter is this has put us ALL at risk......No problem if you just put yourself there, yet you put us ALL there the way things stand.......All the banter and nonsense only makes it worse...........As nobody, and I mean absolutly nobody is so naive or stupid to not know that advantages over others in play are cheats, no matter how small, no matter if only the client can see them or all.........and that the true cheaters, those really intending to cheat the game and online play are here and simply going to get worse.

It's a matter of responsibility, and once some responsibility is taken to try and at least chain the genie out of the bottle..........THEN you'll find your respect.

ALL OF US want more things in this sim then you all can even imagine....We all want changes and more content..........Yet we want it responsibly, not willing to risk it all for our own 1 petty thing.

It's your responsibility to do these things and more pro-modders.....As I said before, you broke it, you fix it............Past this I'm done with these two rediculous threads in this forum....How'd you all put it, ah yes:

Speak to the Hand! lmao

Bi*chfish out...

endless posts and yet no tracks to prove cheating ....

as for mods goes, its simple don't use them if you don't like them.... but they are out there and they are available to everyone so there is no disadvantage , like with trackIR ... not all player are using it but they can if they want to.... its their choice as the same as it is with mods

Well,

I don't have one post with respect to this issue in GD/SIMHQ or here. In my years with Il2 I've been through:

1. .50 cal whine war
2. 151/20 whine war
3. 190 Cockpit bar
4. U.S. Aircraft are porked whine war
5. Spitfire is too uber whine war
6. Dot whine war
7. 100/150 Fuel whine war
8. Trim on a slider whine war
9. Many, many more.

Prior to the hack/mod, the personal attacks, name calling and continual repeat of the same point ad infinitum, was at least divided down "red/blue"-"US red/USSR red" stovepipes.

Not this time. I see folks attacking each other in the most vile, dogmatic and destructive ways. If you removed the technical and historical references, an outsider might actually mistake this for a religious war.

I see past friends and comrades insulting each other to the point where a few weeks of "cooling off" might never repair those relationships.

We've even slunk so low now, that past friends are judging each other by which FORUMS they frequent? "I saw you posted OVER THERE - you must be a cheat!".

The strength of the Il2 community was always first and foremost it's PEOPLE.

The only thing good about this issue is, for once, it's not about RED vs BLUE or nationalistic pride. The bad thing is that it pits onliners against offliners - and "loyalists" against "revolutionaries".

There are only three logical outcomes to this battle:

1) It will be fixed in 4.09 soon
2) A third party encryption program will be developed
3) Nothing will be solved (least likely possibility based upon past history)

In the end, all the dogma, rhetoric, gnashing of teeth and slinging of mud won't accomplish anything except the permanent alienation of those who have fundamentally different views over this issue.

- For the "fundamentalists": All signs point to a 1C fix in the near future. When you get your "fix" - how many folks will be left to fly with and against? How many months/years do you think it will take to "heal" any of this? Do you think you are now, not partially responsible for creating the "death of the sim" that many of you are predicting? Think about it, if you can.

- For the "revolutionaries": No amount of discourse will change anyone's mind. The mortar is set. You've taken it upon yourselves to challenge the system - if that's what you want to do - why do you expect everyone to support you? Why don't you realize that perhaps a bungled up installation of the mod might not cause online issues?

What goal are any of you attempting to achieve?

As far as I, and many of the "quieter" folks in the community are concerned - this entire episode is disgusting FROM BOTH POINTS OF VIEW.

A pox on both your houses, as you are both destroying the community!

S~ and good luck in your holy war. I hope I've angered all of you sufficiently to re-examine how your acting, at least.

Now that I've had my turn for an "emotional outburst" at least I feel better.

Gunny

With all due respect to you, you are dreaming. If you have ever heard the term "you can never go home"....well that applies here, to this sim. Just fly with people that you trust, and enjoy the game. It's not the end of the world, and lots of fun is still to be had.

Well to me it's simple and here my advice .. until maybe 4.09 is fixed or SOW is out there only one solution for the Onliner that love adrenaline and fight...
It's "LOCKON / FLAMING-CLIFF" .... I can assure you that there are conciderably way less arcadish pilots there .. what a fun.. Sow is not out yet... my Lockon days restart again.. and same thing Hyperlobby etc.. just maybe a bit smarter this time.

Voila.. done.

Some Online pics last night
http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/lockon/wingman1.jpg

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/lockon/lb1.jpg

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/lockon/lb2.jpg

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/lock...nattack104.jpg

yea lets review then, and since even basic concepts seem hard to grasp by the hack crowd we'll take it in little steps for you, call a friend if you still get lost along the way

from the oxford dictionary, .... you know ... one of those big books that helps you with determining the meaning of words

the question was "Post links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks here:"

the meaning of the key words in that phrase:
cheat n verb
1 act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage. deprive of something by deceitful or unfair means.
2 a person who cheats.
3 an act of cheating.

about 10 links were posted of exactly that, people entering fullreal servers with the hacked soundmod files, and flying planes that are not normally available, people flying planes completely outside their normal parameters (vertical takeoff for do-335 anybody ?)

case closed, its clear by searching for 30 sec on google that lots of cheating is occurring


what you seem to want, is for a reborn hacker to turn up singing "haleluja i been saved" and post in cockpit views of flying an 1-16 at 650 km/hr with a closeup of the speed dial, or or a stork loading up a nuke and 4 x 30 mm canons in the setup screen.

your hack buddies arnt honest enough to come and confess to that here, you know that well enough to.

You quote the Oxford English Dictionary.Well done.Now please go back and edit your post using the correct diction,capital letters,full stops and comma's that the English language demands.
Please ask your mother to make sure you take your copy of the Oxford English Dictionary back to the library on time.
As I said,you have no proof of cheating online using the soundmod on your computer.There is no case of cheating online using the soundmod in this thread,after 36 hours and several thousand views.Someone going into a server,asking permission to use the soundmod,and telling everyone they are using the soundmod does not count as cheating.
And regardless of what you think,I am not 'pro-mod' or 'anti-mod'.I just want to see proof of cheating that everyone says they have.

hit a bit of a raw nerve there, did i ? try and make a better attempt next time to be a bit more precise in the words you use when you are trying to post self answering questions, it makes it less boring for the rest of us to poke holes in your arguments. word have specific meanings, if you then put them together in a correct manner it allows you to communicate clearly with others.

but lets not get sidetracked now, extensive cheating is possible with the soundmod file, and even more so with the hacked versions that the juvi's got their hands on later, and you know that to.

you blind or something ? or cant you really think in a logical straight line for the 60 sec it takes to read a short piece of text.

you asked for links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks, and about 10 video's and tracks were posted showing exactly that.

now you been asked in return to post proof here that you have evidence and guarantees that no cheating whatsoever is occurring online since the soundfile hack was released and the il2 files were cracked. you avoiding the question ?

eww, you'd been totally misunderstood then , have you ? i wonder how that happened.

ahh i know, in case your attention span was really that short just read some of your earlier post in this forum and you should be able to figure that one out for yourself.

Raw nerve? Not really,but if you must quote the Oxford English Dictionary at me,and then start writing in a style that would get my 10 year old in trouble at school, then what can I say?
As to the other statements you made,what can I say? I suppose I could post some tracks of me flying online in several different servers with no evidence of cheating going on,but what would that prove?
As I have stated on more than one occasion,I have not witnessed any instance of cheating online using the soundmod.Others have stated that they have witnessed instances of cheating online using the soundmod.
I can post my tracks of not seeing any cheating.
please post your tracks of seeing cheating.

As for the rest of it,what can I say? I am not totally blind,just partially sighted,so in response to your question 'are you blind?' then no,not quite.Maybe I am missing all the cheating due to my eyesight.If I post some tracks,can you point out the times that the cheating occurred for me so I can examine them? Thanks i appreciate it.
This is not the soundmod discussion thread,so we should really move there now for further banter.Keep this thread for your proof.