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- IL-2 Sturmovik (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=98)

- - 4.11 realism (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=17984)

Didn't Germans themselves state somewhere that 1 hit from Mk108 usually brought down anything single engined and most likely twins too? Three Mk108 hits were on average needed for a viermot. Anyone help me with a link?

Frankly, it is indeed hard to achieve this in IL-2 unless you are hair-splittingly (literally!) pedantic at where you hit your enemy. Which I doubt German pilots in 43-45 were. They were more than happy already to hit their targets.

Not to give wrong impression - Mk 108s are fine IMO. It's the utterly buggy and rudimentary damage modelling that's the culprit. Some planes for example don't even have fuel tanks modelled, other ones start burning at wrong places (you're hitting left wing fuel tank and right one starts burning...), next - the tin-foil skin acts like a superb anti-7,62mm and splinter armour (try killing a Zeke/Nate/Oscar... pilot through fuselage with LMG...), you can't hit and explode oxygen bottles, ammo storages...

Damage modelling would really need extensive fixing and upgrading. But then again - it would probably only open yet another can of worms and we all know why.

.
Now we have enforced realism for bombers,lets have some for the fighters as well:
You fly 45 minutes,and find your guns have jammed when you need them. -bombers have guns too, and bombs.
You are 100 KM's over the lines,when your oil pressure drops to zero,and your engine quits. - Bombers ahve engines too.
You take off,and your engine quits. - same as above
You get to high alt,then without warning your oxygen supply fails,and you die of ashyxiation. - same as above
Get rid of the refly button in dogfight servers.You die,or bail out,you have to leave the server and come back in,after losing all your precious points. - thsi can be server side enforced
Sounds fair to me,after all,we are after realism.[/QUOTE]

Everithing you point out sounds good but tis not for fighters only its for every plane ingame.

Maybe they can simulate the failure rates experienced by the United States aircraft Industry?

If we look at the US Aviation industry, 1 in every 182 airframes built from January to October 1943 was a total write off and destroyed in crashes during Ferrying.

We can use today's aviation accident statistics to get a ballpark idea of the number of emergency landings. According to the FAA accident data base, you have ~98% of a making a daylight emergency landing without injury or major damage.

That puts the ballpark figure for emergency landings in the US Aviation industry at 14100 incidents or about 17% of the aircraft produced had an issue which forced termination of the flight in the first few hours of operation.

http://www.usaaf.net/digest/t206.htm

As a base, the average accident rate is about 14% on the initial flight for a new aircraft and 5% on the second flight.

Given the frantic pace of wartime production I would expect that rate to be somewhat higher.

Of course that is just raw data before the newly manufactured aircraft is delivered. Airplanes are complicated machines and it is perfectly normal to have issues in the first few hours of operation.

All Air Forces flew acceptance flights to test new aircraft before accepting them.

Quote:

Undercarriage tests followed before the aircraft was lowered onto its wheels and rolled out of the final assembly hall. It was then led to the firing stand to test its weapons and also for centering the compass on the rotable compass adjustment stand. After fueling, and a last check of all functions, the engine was subjected to a test run, where after the Bf-109 stood ready for a works flight. In the initial test flight it was climbed to 8,000m (26,250ft), the aircraft and the engine was thoroughly checked out and performance data compared with that required. In the event that faults were found, these would be recorded and eliminated after the landing. This was then followed by a works test flight in which it could be established how many of the faults had been rectified. Where no further faults were determined on this flight, the aircraft was then release for acceptance by the BAL. In Regensbug, several pilots (Obermeier, Lohmann and others) were authorized by the RLM to carry out Bf 109 acceptance flights for the BAL. After their acceptance by the BAL, the aircraft were then taken over by the Luftwaffe.

Just some facts for you guys to digest! Have fun! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumpp (Post 328219)

Did anyone take their planes directly from factory to combat?

BTW Crumpp, do you check PM's?

Quote:

Did anyone take their planes directly from factory to combat?

Not as a matter of policy...

Quote:

BTW Crumpp, do you check PM's?

Not for a while, did I miss one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElAurens (Post 326087)

I have to agrre with Bearcat.

One thing I have noticed is that as the "realism" and difficulty of the sim increases, the number of players I see online decreases in direct proportion.

All of these new difficulty/reality/harder is better "improvements" need to be optional. That way all players are better served.

I noticed that too.... especially in coops.. but then again.. this sim is getting long in the tooth.. and the time between patches etc seems to be getting longer and longer.. I know they do this for free.. and I am grateful .. but it would be nice if they took what they had and put it in 4.11 and put the rest in 4.12.. or whatever it will be..

I do this for fun.. I have far less time to do this than I did when I started it.. and between the killer AI (for the other side .. my AI is dumb as a post 80% of the time.. ) and the killer flak.. sometimes the fun just vanishes ..

I would think you are absolutely right Bearcat. It would not be fun if I played the game for 30 minutes and then when the action starts some random failure ends it for me. That is just stupid IMHO.

What is funny is that people want realism but don't seem to understand that all of these games are inherently unrealistic in their basic game play. Pilots don't fly around at even maximum continuous settings much less WEP. That seems to be the norm however when playing. They did not have the fuel to that for one thing nor would their engines handle it.

The most realistic thing they could do to simulate WWII air combat would be to rework the RPM/manifold pressure settings to make maximum continuous the 100% setting and reset the overheat times to correspond to the time allowed for operation above 100% output. Anything setting above maximum continuous is a short duration sprint setting and is stressing the engine.

Make the fuel consumption values where it was important to keep your aircraft at cruise settings would also help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vparez (Post 209822)

All those women who love watching south american "telenovelas", should read this forum...

So much drama here... so much drama, heartache and unfulfilled expectations...

So much drama...

What will happen in Season 4, Episode 11???

Is evil Teresa Dosamantes going to ruin another young life? Innocent Rosa, trying to find her way, in the cruel world, forced to choose between Fernando Fighteras, the flashy toreador, or the stalwart but unremarkable Don Skipier El Bombardero... Is the peaceful village of San Arcadas going to be burned to the ground by the bandits of Campo Real???

Don't miss the next episode of "Corazon de Volando Armadillo"!!!

LOL dude this was epic xD

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxGunz (Post 328230)

Did anyone take their planes directly from factory to combat?

Not as a matter of policy, but I believe that the Germans and Japanese sometimes flew their planes directly off the assembly lines into combat late in the war (i.e., late 1944 on). I read someplace that the average life expectancy of a late war Bf-109 airframe was something less than 10 hours due to poor manufacturing standards, rookie pilots, pilot fatigue and enemy action. For the Japanese, some planes were basically designed to be used once, as kamikazes, which precluded acceptance testing.

On the allied side, during the darkest days of the Nazi invasion from summer of 1941 to early 1942, I believe that the Soviets sometimes flew their planes directly off the assembly lines. I know that during the defense of Leningrad tanks were sometimes driven unpainted from the assembly line to the front lines, and I think that some aircraft produced in Leningrad factories were also pressed into service directly from the factory.