Will the poor control/interface issues get fixed? [Archive]

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KurtG85

09-01-2009, 03:42 AM

First off, I'm ecstatic that finally a quality flight combat simulator is coming to consoles, especially this one and I'm sure it will rock regardless. However there are some (IMO) major control and interface issues that really need to be fixed to allow players to get the most from the game and maybe to even allow certain modes to be playable (specifically sim mode).

The throttle, alt, and speed levels are difficult to read. I have to stare at them for a second or two to even have a chance at being able to read them unless you are lucky enough to have them sillouhetted against a dark patch of trees/ground. Perhaps its different on an HD tv but I have played the game on a massive large screen standard def and this is an issue even on a large screen. A throttle bar would be much more intuitive as it wouldn't require you to take your eyes off the action to read a percentage. A throttle 'bar' with the percentage at the top of the bar would be even better as was used in aero elite.

The WEP setting should be a toggle so that you don't have to constantly hold a button just to keep it on. Toggle as in you hold up throttle to get to 100% then tap up again to have WEP stay on, then tap down once to disengage it back to 100%. Aero elite did this as well and it just works a hell of a lot better. This would also make it a lot easier to use the rudder more accurately with wep engaged and would help alleviate the absolute worst hand cramps I have ever had in my life that this game regularly gives me.

Speaking of hand cramps, I wore out or tore some tendon in my hand from trying to use the click down and look around camera. This is the thing that makes sim pretty much unplayable for me. I practiced on this mode for a few days and afterwards I wasn't able to do anything with my right hand for a week. I'm not kidding or exaggerating in the slightest. If the camera were simply a 'toggle' in that you just have to click Right thumbstick down once to initiate "look around mode" and then click it again to disengage it, it would be fine.

This is not a major issue but I also don't like the fact that their is no option to allow the camera to simply move where you point it without having it snap back to center as if it were on a rubber band.

I really hope these issues are worked out. I hate it when potentially classic games like this one push themselves back into the just 'good' game category due to basic control and interface errors which compared to the rest of the games development would have taken the tiniest amount of money and effort to do correctly. It really damages the immersion factor and even basic playability when you're struggling against your controls and interface.

Props still go to the devs for creating what looks to be an amazing and lovingly crafted game but I just hope these issues are fixed somehow.

Riceball

09-01-2009, 04:51 AM

All I know is that you are not alone. All of those things have been pointed out. We'll just have to wait and see.

David603

09-01-2009, 05:14 AM

Definitely agree. The controls would be much better off with something like pitch and roll on the left stick, rudder on the triggers and camera on the right stick. The guns would be on A (X on PS3), and throttle on Lb(L1) and Rb(R1).

This way you would have direct and separate control over pitch, roll, the camera and the rudders while manoeuvring, and when you needed to shoot (at which point you wouldn't need the camera because the enemy would be centred in your sights) you would take you thumb off the right stick (camera) and hit A(X), while still able control pitch, roll and the rudder.

You would still have the D-pad for wingman commands, BACK for the undercarriage, X(Square) for the flaps, B(Circle) for the map, and Y(Triangle) would become the Trim. Switching views would have to go, but maybe this control scheme could be introduced for an ultra-sim mode that only allowed the cockpit view with blackouts and redouts, and launched along with the German cockpits to allow both sides to use it in multiplayer.

H Lecter

09-01-2009, 09:17 AM

The throttle, alt, and speed levels are difficult to read. I have to stare at them for a second or two to even have a chance at being able to read them unless you are lucky enough to have them sillouhetted against a dark patch of trees/ground. Perhaps its different on an HD tv but I have played the game on a massive large screen standard def and this is an issue even on a large screen.

Do yourself a favour and get an HD screen as soon as possible. You will enjoy every game with it. I played on a 480p projector with a picture approx. 2 m wide but still my new HD TV performs much better.

To fix the control issues I'd strongly recommend a joystick. The AV8R does its job quite nicely and won't leave you broke.

I know that investing in a new TV set is an expensive task, but believe me when I say that it's the single best measure you can take to improve your gaming experience with any game available for the X360.

Riceball

09-01-2009, 09:42 AM

I was perfectly happy with my SD TV until I played the demo. I just have to see BoP in all it's glory. :)

H Lecter

09-01-2009, 09:58 AM

I was perfectly happy with my SD TV until I played the demo. I just have to see BoP in all it's glory. :)

It makes a huge difference! Also on Battlefield 1943 I improved my kill/death ratio from barely more than 1 to approx. 2.5 :grin:

Riceball

09-01-2009, 10:15 AM

It makes a huge difference! Also on Battlefield 1943 I improved my kill/death ratio from barely more than 1 to approx. 2.5 :grin:

Yeah, I bet it helps a ton for shooters.

King Jareth

09-01-2009, 10:24 AM

The throttle, alt, and speed levels are difficult to read. I have to stare at them for a second or two to even have a chance at being able to read them unless you are lucky enough to have them sillouhetted against a dark patch of trees/ground.

Are you talking about the HUD numbers here? Cant say I've even had a problem with these TBH but a HUD colour pickbox in options would have been handy I suppose.

As a heads up, you can use the zoom view button to see the dials better in the cockpit view (having a dedicated free-look stick on the AV8R is turning out to be a godsend), they were mostly pretty useless until I figured that out :oops:.

KurtG85

09-01-2009, 01:36 PM

Definitely agree. The controls would be much better off with something like pitch and roll on the left stick, rudder on the triggers and camera on the right stick. The guns would be on A (X on PS3), and throttle on Lb(L1) and Rb(R1).

This is exactly what I was thinking but I wanted to keep the post short. It really sucks you out of the game when you are fighting a battle just as much with un-intuitive controls as the enemy on your tail.

trk29

09-01-2009, 01:42 PM

You can always set the control to the AV8R until they maybe do a fix to the original layout. I've been playing with the original more now than that setup but it helps a lot when looking around, The only thing that sucks is throttle stays at 55%. Just a thought.

PedroTheGoat

09-01-2009, 05:33 PM

The game is quite playable with the Goat's 42" 1080P TV and Av8tor flight stick.

Okay... I'll stop bragging now.

I seriously do believe that anyone who is semi serious about gaming on next gen consoles should make an HDTV their first investment. 1080p is not required... And 32" is a good size for gaming. Above 42" can actually hinder your gaming because there is too much screen area to scan. A decent 32" 720p can run as low as 300$'s.

Also, I believe that in BOP, if you are going to get serious and attempt flying simulator mode on a regular basis... Then a flight stick seems like it will be mandatory. For those out there with very little liquid income... Just expect a major challenge without a stick.

My av8r ran 50$'s on eBay.

trk29

09-01-2009, 07:05 PM

I have been flying on sim mode a lot lately and to tell you the truth I am doing a little better with the game pad. I have a AV8R and the problem I am having is the rudder. Unlike you Xbox guys the rudder is either on or off there is no fine adjustment.. I always over shoot my target when trying to get the kill with my rudder.

Also there doesn't seem to be a trim button for the ps3 AV8R stick.

Plane always rolls to the left and after hitting every button after I level out it still rolls to the left.

mattd27

09-01-2009, 07:28 PM

P-51

09-01-2009, 07:34 PM

PedroTheGoat

09-01-2009, 07:40 PM

I've got a 22" SD. Is it really that bad? Maybe I don't know what I'm missing.

I've got to plug it into our 46" HD downstairs for a while. Only problem is I can't connect to XBox Live from there...

No, before you ask, moving the Tv isn't an option. I'm just gonna have to upgrade the other one...

You can go buy that wireless adapter for your Xbox for a ridiculous 99$'s and have a wifi setup.

Such a ripoff for Microsoft to charge that to make your console do even what the Wii does, but sometimes it's your only option.

trk29

09-01-2009, 07:45 PM

You can go buy that wireless adapter for your Xbox for a ridiculous 99$'s and have a wifi setup.

Such a ripoff for Microsoft to charge that to make your console do even what the Wii does, but sometimes it's your only option.

And if you don't have wireless internet in your house you would have to buy a router first and then the wifi for the xbox.

mattd27

09-01-2009, 07:46 PM

I know, it's unbelievable!!:mad: For the price of an adapter I'm almost half way to getting a little 26" HDTV anyway.

trk29

09-01-2009, 07:50 PM

This was taken on my 52"
Of course the plane was about 15 inches wide :)

PedroTheGoat

09-01-2009, 08:13 PM

It is ridiculous. Wifi is super handy though... The woman and I have about 10 different devices that run off the Wifi router though. I barely know what I would do without it. My house would comprise of a horrible system of eithernet cables that would surely cause anyone wandering through to break an ankle.

fuzzychickens

09-01-2009, 08:15 PM

trk29

09-01-2009, 08:50 PM

We need some clarification on this.

If the on/off rudder doesn't get fixed on the PS3 when using the AV8R - then I am seriously giving thought to ditching my ps3 and picking up a 360 and BOP for that console.

I wouldn't ditch the ps3 on the fact of the rudder, if you pick up a thrustmaster then that would be a whole lot cheaper than a different console.

Hopefully the devs can patch this to make it work correctly.

KurtG85

09-02-2009, 03:12 AM

So the av8r rudder controls work well for 360 but not PS3? Does the av8r have any control issues on the 360? Seems to be way too many control issues with stick controllers. Surely the devs knew a very large number of players were going to be using sticks for this game.

I hear drawbacks for sticks left and right but IDK if they are on one console or the other.

Not to sound overly critical but I'm still blown away the original control set up is not only so bad, but that its unadjustable. I can't imagine how many thousands of young or just casual players will not even give the game a chance simply due to the sticks not being 'flippable', although I prefer the stick on the left.

blacksungregg

09-02-2009, 03:50 AM

Quick solution to all of this would be completely customizeable controls. Something I would think that would be easily do able, but don't know with a DLC.

David603

09-02-2009, 05:04 AM

I can't imagine how many thousands of young or just casual players will not even give the game a chance simply due to the sticks not being 'flippable', although I prefer the stick on the left.
Not that I'm trying to put you down or anything, but I think most casual players won't care about which stick has which function and will just get used to the layout.

redtiger02

09-02-2009, 05:22 AM

PedroTheGoat

09-02-2009, 05:31 AM

Since we're on wheel brakes, does the pad have a brake function? I have never played the demo with anything other than the Hori stick and normally just use a slow approach and slight rudder movements to stop on the runway. It's pretty tedious but it's what I've got until they offer up another solution.

I think it's a safe bet that they'll have this fixed by the release of the full game.

Yes... Holding down on the right anolog stick on the gamepad will cause the wheelbrakes to kick in.

trk29

09-02-2009, 01:14 PM

Since we're on wheel brakes, does the pad have a brake function? I have never played the demo with anything other than the Hori stick and normally just use a slow approach and slight rudder movements to stop on the runway. It's pretty tedious but it's what I've got until they offer up another solution.

Well I'm using the AV8R and I can't stop the plane from flipping at very low speed because there is no brake on the stick.

Riceball

09-02-2009, 01:21 PM

If you have trouble landing with a controller, it is your fault.

trk29

09-02-2009, 01:35 PM

If you have trouble landing with a controller, it is your fault.

No there needs to be a wheel brake. Coasting along at 25mph stick pulled back and it flips, I'm not the only one that has said something about this.

King Jareth

09-02-2009, 01:38 PM

Well I'm using the AV8R and I can't stop the plane from flipping at very low speed because there is no brake on the stick.

As soon as the wheels hit turf pause game, unplug stick, turn on pad, unpause and break ? It may not be an elegant solution but you've done the hard work with the stick already and if the full game doesn't throw up a solution it could be the only way without a very long runway.

Actually I never thought how much of a problem this is with the capture the airfield MP mode before.....

H Lecter

09-02-2009, 01:50 PM

As soon as the wheels hit turf pause game, unplug stick, turn on pad, unpause and break ? It may not be an elegant solution but you've done the hard work with the stick already and if the full game doesn't throw up a solution it could be the only way without a very long runway.

Actually I never thought how much of a problem this is with the capture the airfield MP mode before.....

Only one flaw there - no pause function in a MP game... ;)

Riceball

09-02-2009, 01:53 PM

No there needs to be a wheel brake. Coasting along at 25mph stick pulled back and it flips, I'm not the only one that has said something about this.

When I said "controller" I was referring to the gamepad. All you have to do is hold back on the throttle. Easy as pie.

King Jareth

09-02-2009, 02:05 PM

Only one flaw there - no pause function in a MP game... ;)

I know hence this part at the bottom

Actually I never thought how much of a problem this is with the capture the airfield MP mode before.....

trk29

09-02-2009, 02:46 PM

When I said "controller" I was referring to the gamepad. All you have to do is hold back on the throttle. Easy as pie.

yeah I don't have a problem landing with a gamepad but I want to play it with my stick and If I can't land with a stick then the problem hopefully will get corrected.

KurtG85

09-02-2009, 11:25 PM

Not that I'm trying to put you down or anything, but I think most casual players won't care about which stick has which function and will just get used to the layout.

In less hard-core forums this is probably the most common 'complaint' post I have seen. Most of the kiddos say they cant do it, and give up. You know how impatient we all were as kids. :)

redtiger02

09-02-2009, 11:38 PM

Well I'm using the AV8R and I can't stop the plane from flipping at very low speed because there is no brake on the stick.

It has to be very slight ruddering, kind of like a spastic monkey at the controls. What I normally do given the lack of wheel brakes is line up on the runway at the end of the mission, cut power, throw it into a slip (full rudder either direction, aileron the other direction, just enough to keep you going straight even though the plane is cocked a little), then try and get on the ground no faster than 90mph. Once I get down, I sit here and rock my fingers back and forth on the Ace Edge just enough to drop extra speed. Around 65mph I gradually start pulling back on the stick hoping desperately to slow down a little more. You have to hit the runway at the very edge and have your right wing slightly high to avoid the little hut, and you will stop about 2' from the end, but you will stop. This works at least 75% of the time, with a margin of error +/- 70%. (laugh before you start bitching about that last statement people)

trk29

09-03-2009, 12:33 AM

It has to be very slight ruddering, kind of like a spastic monkey at the controls. What I normally do given the lack of wheel brakes is line up on the runway at the end of the mission, cut power, throw it into a slip (full rudder either direction, aileron the other direction, just enough to keep you going straight even though the plane is cocked a little), then try and get on the ground no faster than 90mph. Once I get down, I sit here and rock my fingers back and forth on the Ace Edge just enough to drop extra speed. Around 65mph I gradually start pulling back on the stick hoping desperately to slow down a little more. You have to hit the runway at the very edge and have your right wing slightly high to avoid the little hut, and you will stop about 2' from the end, but you will stop. This works at least 75% of the time, with a margin of error +/- 70%. (laugh before you start bitching about that last statement people)

I will try that. But it shouldn't be that difficult.