Damage model

[Empi666]

The one thing that kind of erks me about the game is the "Real time damage model"

It really seems like as you get shot, pre determined things start happening to the plane.

Like, once you get shot up to a certain point the game says "Ok, now he gets a basketball size hole in the wing!"

And then once you get shot up some more that jagged shark bite shows up on the wing next to the cockpit.

I guess I'm a little let down. I just imagined, from the LIVE Demo, that when he started talking about the damage engine that I was expecting more. Don't get me wrong, love the demo and can't wait to play.

Anyone else?

[mattd27]

Well I think the graphics on the damage system are well done, the holes in the wings etc. look really cool.

I hadn't noticed the pre determined damage, well I haven't been paying enough attention to it I guess. If that is the case than it's a bit lame.

I was under the impression that say, if you got hit in the wing than you get a hole from the bullets. So the damage corresponds to where, and how hard, you get hit. But I guess that's not the case.

[Jimatay]

I do agree, the damage is a bit too samey. The massive hole only appears in the left wing and only small holes and tears (in the same place each time) in the right. Shame. Still looks good though.

[PF_Lizard]

Yeah I noticed me Starboard wing always gets the same pattern of bullet holes and 'shark bite'. Whereas the port wing often gets a big hole.

Also, the bombers either lose their tail, plummet in a plume of smoke, or the wing tip breaks off.

It would be very intensive for it to figure out actual collision detection/damage. I imagine it was tough enough to get a good frame rate with all the 3D terrain detail and post processing effects.

It's still better than a health meter. :grin:


Maybe next gen of consoles will be able to compete with Storm of War, but for now BoP still pushes the envelope.

[David603]

Remember Birds of Prey has to run on what is effectively a PC with 256mb RAM and a 256mb Graphics card. From the sounds of Storm of War I would say the absolute minimum specs needed would be around 2GB RAM and a 512mb Graphics card, if not more. Then bear in mind that the visuals from Storm of War and Birds of Prey aren't hugely different, at least at first look, and I think you will understand why Birds of Prey can't compete with Storm of War on damage modelling.

Incidentally, this is Storm of War's damage modelling. The large holes are caused by Flak, these are preset but there are presets for hundreds more impacts. Effectively, wherever the plane is hit a hole will appear. The smaller holes are bullet and cannon shell impacts, and these aren't preset, the holes will appear exactly where the bullet hit.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3971/damagemodelling.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/i/damagemodelling.jpg/)

[Empi666]

Ok.......can that plane fly??? it looks like swiss cheese!

[David603]

Ok.......can that plane fly??? it looks like swiss cheese!
Probably not, but its just a demonstration of the damage model.

[Empi666]

Probably not, but its just a demonstration of the damage model.

That does look quite impressive!

[dald101]

That damage model does look mighty impressive!

Is there flak damage similar to that in BOP?

I have yet to be hit by flak and i'm pretty certain it's nothing to do with my flying skills!

[Soviet Ace]

Last time I got hit by flak, my wing was completely torn away. Kinda wild experience when in the cockpit, and unable to fight the controls :P

[dald101]

Last time I got hit by flak, my wing was completely torn away. Kinda wild experience when in the cockpit, and unable to fight the controls :P That's good to know - think i must just have been extremely lucky with my low/slow p-51 habits:-P

[bird of bait]

Last time I got hit by flak, my wing was completely torn away. Kinda wild experience when in the cockpit, and unable to fight the controls :P

it never happend to me i never got any damage on my p-51 the only time i damage myself is when i plunch toward the earth forgetting to pull up:rolleyes:

[Soviet Ace]

That's good to know - think i must just have been extremely lucky with my low/slow p-51 habits:-P

Well the only reason I did get hit was because I just wanted to see what it was like. I haven't been hit since by flak, and from that experience, I plan on keeping it that way :D

[irrelevant]

I actually had a FW-190 challenge me head-on in sim mode and, while I tried to identify who I was looking at, he blasted my P-51 out of the sky. I simply said, "whoa." LOL!

[xNikex]

Last time I got hit by flak, my wing was completely torn away. Kinda wild experience when in the cockpit, and unable to fight the controls :P

I got hit by flak too on accident one time. That was the first time my engine died on me. Too low to bail though. So they got me.:mad:

[lestat8601]

I do agree, the damage is a bit too samey. The massive hole only appears in the left wing and only small holes and tears (in the same place each time) in the right. Shame. Still looks good though.

False. You can have massive holes on the right wing

[Smudgyboy]

Yeah, the damage model is a bit 'samey'. The more you play the more you notice. However, in camapign (and e.g. Dove demo map) there can be 100+ planes in the sky so that is the trade-off.

4 planes with full damage model

or

100+ plane with 'samey' damage model

(for gameplay/fun i choose the latter;))

my 0.02 cents

bloomin rivet counters!

I agree with you I rather have a 100 planes than look at my wings while flying!

Don't get me wrong I like the damage and detail it makes a game which this is.

[mondo]

Yeah, the damage model is a bit 'samey'. The more you play the more you notice. However, in camapign (and e.g. Dove demo map) there can be 100+ planes in the sky so that is the trade-off.



Damage isn't dynamic. Dynamic damage would be quite awesome but completely outside the power of even the most powerful PC's.

[dald101]

Anyone know if the damage resistance of the in game stukas is realistic?

Yesterday i poured a 20 second blast of machine bullets into one from less than 15ft away, and the little shit still carried on flying! It took a further ten second blast to finally send him down in flames.

[mar01006765]

Damage isn't dynamic. Dynamic damage would be quite awesome but completely outside the power of even the most powerful PC's.

GTA 4 Handles dynamic damage very well

[Soviet Ace]

GTA 4 Handles dynamic damage very well

Their whole RAGE engine is just great, not just the physics part ;)

[Duguall]

on an earlier comment about the PS3 system specs, you also have to realise that a console is years of research and investment to get every peice of hardware to work 150% compatible with each other part to bring out the best performance. PCs can't do this for their most important task, being able to do many things. Video game consoles are meant to be pure gaming machines, while the PC is 10 or so uPnP pieces plugged into the motherboard and it'll do what you want to a certain extent. Not to mention the PS3 has the ability to give developers 6 SPE giving it some serious processing power that not even computers have yet. The same goes for the 360 with 3 processor cores doing 2 threads at once each. So while the consoles might not have big numbers like computers do, you have to realise millions of dollars of research making small numbers add up to huge results.

So in reality, the ability to do complicated things like a dynamic damage system is limited by the developer's power and skill to create a game, especially in the Playstation 3's case where not many people have had the training in using as many SPEs at once.

[thundermuffin]

Apparently you people haven't flown straight behind the HE's for very long (good bit of flying on your part :P ). I have had a great variety of damage actually. From a head on pass I got my canopy rocked with bullet holes. I've had my own oil fly from my engine and land on my canopy and NOT run off. I've been shot inside my cockpit killing my pilot instantly (had absolutely NO other damage on my plane so don't try and dispute that). I've had my engine stop and have seen tails ripped off. The coolest was on a 60 degree turn, colliding with another P-51d in flying perpendicular to my path; scared the crap out of me and made my plane EXPLODE in mid air. Nothing really left except for the propeller just falling slowing back down.

It isn't same-y... I just don't think the AI is good enough to hit you most of the time to fully experience the damage model. Wait for MP and then start to complain...

[trk29]

I was flying behind a Stuka and the rear gunner shot up my engine (right before I downed him) and caused my canopy to turn black, I could only see out of the upper right side, I couldn't even see through my sights. Then I got into a chase with a 109, this went on for roughly 3 minutes until he dove down to the water and I crashed because I couldn't see the water.:-P

It was so cool. That was the funnest chase I have had yet while playing the demo.

[Duguall]

Same thing happend to me with the permanent oil though I could still see 50% out the front, and I completely neglected keeping my speed up so I was scratching 200 and I couldn't keep altitude and bam.

Earlier though, I was just screwing around in the Spitfire seeing how low I could successfully do a barrel roll, 38 altitude over water is my best, how long to recover from a stall and all that. At one point I was flying straight up and so were my wingmen who were trying to keep up with my crazy flying, he got ahead of me, stalled out, and while I was stalling out he was falling backwards and chopped my whole wing off while I was having some hangtime.

[Avernus]

Remember Birds of Prey has to run on what is effectively a PC with 256mb RAM and a 256mb Graphics card. From the sounds of Storm of War I would say the absolute minimum specs needed would be around 2GB RAM and a 512mb Graphics card, if not more. Then bear in mind that the visuals from Storm of War and Birds of Prey aren't hugely different, at least at first look, and I think you will understand why Birds of Prey can't compete with Storm of War on damage modelling.

Incidentally, this is Storm of War's damage modelling. The large holes are caused by Flak, these are preset but there are presets for hundreds more impacts. Effectively, wherever the plane is hit a hole will appear. The smaller holes are bullet and cannon shell impacts, and these aren't preset, the holes will appear exactly where the bullet hit.

The look of the damage modeling is very well done. However if it is a static model then that is somewhat lacking but also understandable on console. Especially with that amount of detail being pushed. The game looks absolutely amazing. Some smoke effects need optimization but everything else looking good. Storm of War damage modeling sounds exactly what I would expect on a PC today with 2GB of application memory required. I'm still amazed at how much detail they push on these consoles using streaming technology.