SIM Unplayable on T.Master?

[FilthyPrick]

Does anyone else find the restricted views provided bt the hat-stick makes meaningful play in SIM impossible. This does seem to instantly limit all those with the stick from playing on the MP SIM servers as they are effectively 60% blind - esp at the 6 o'clock!! This could have a big impact on the way current Squads and Clans are able to play and organise.:confused:

[HauptmannMolders]

Charlie Flight is in trouble I completely agree! Solutions?

[PF_Lizard]

This is a wild shot, and highly unlikely to work but... has anyone tried a mouse with the game? I'd say it's almost certainly NOT going to work! lol But I'll give it a go later.
I played pretty good with a mouse on Pacific Fighters - Josytick in the right hand, left hand on the mouse!

[irrelevant]

The more I read about this hat switch problem, the more tempted I am to buy the Saitek... sigh. I really love the layout of the TM Hotas, but I haven't been able to try it myself yet. From the sound of things, I will be disappointed.

[Empi666]

Does anyone else find the restricted views provided bt the hat-stick makes meaningful play in SIM impossible. This does seem to instantly limit all those with the stick from playing on the MP SIM servers as they are effectively 60% blind - esp at the 6 o'clock!! This could have a big impact on the way current Squads and Clans are able to play and organise.:confused:

Yes this does stink! I asked about this hat switch like 3 times in 3 different threads. No answers until right after I ordered my stick! ha ha ha....

I guess for now I'll just deal with it. But for me I really like the HOTAS setup better than the single stick.

[Jasta 6]

it is pretty annoying. Isn't this something that could be fixed with a patch?

[FilthyPrick]

it is pretty annoying. Isn't this something that could be fixed with a patch?
Yes,

Especially as I bought the stick as recommended by Anton himself and I am sure many, many others have done the same!!

[Jasta 6]

well, then more than likely this is at the top of their to-do list. shouldnt be much of a problem for long.

[irrelevant]

Doesn't the hat switch functionality apply to the stick, not the game? I wouldn't think this is something that could be fixed by Anton and company, but I could be wrong.

[David603]

Depends on whether the hatstick is an analogue stick or not. Don't know what the Thrustmaster has.

[bussinrounds]

It's an eight way switch.:mad:

[irrelevant]

Depends on whether the hatstick is an analogue stick or not. Don't know what the Thrustmaster has.

It isn't analog... only 8 way (based on what I've read).

edit: too late. :P

[David603]

Perhaps the devs could set up the controls so that moving the stick down left or down right would flick the view so you were looking back over your shoulder in the respective direction. There isn't really much else you can do without analogue input.

[bussinrounds]

Someone just wrote in the aviator thread, that the saitek had no range of motion with the hat switch, so go figure. I guess i'll deal with it. Cause if the aviator had full range, i would have to get it.

[irrelevant]

Someone just wrote in the aviator thread, that the saitek had no range of motion with the hat switch, so go figure. I guess i'll deal with it. Cause if the aviator had full range, i would have to get it.


Good to know, thank you. I'll stick to my guns with the TM. <-- that was terrible, I know. :-|

[bussinrounds]

Good to know, thank you. I'll stick to my guns with the TM. <-- that was terrible, I know. :-|

Yea, the hotas setup would be more desirable i would think. I just have to construct some kind of chair now for it.:grin:

[irrelevant]

Yea, the hotas setup would be more desirable i would think. I just have to construct some kind of chair now for it.:grin:

LOL! post pics of your contraption!

[Empi666]

I just got the TM and I am loving it!

I setup a chair in front of my 56", set a little stool on my left and put the throttle there. Then I set up another stool in front of me for the stick. Now all I need are some flight goggles and a flight cap! ha ha

The only thing I haven't figured out yet is how to issue the commands with the TM setup?

I am currently using TM setup #1.

Does anybody have any idea what the difference is? Or have a button layout for each configuration?

[rbaron]

hi all - i have both joysticks ... errr kind of

i plugged in my pc av8r - hat switch worked beautifully, but i couldn't reprogram all the other toggles

thrustmaster hotas x stick - only limited views with the hat switch ... 8 way switch but only 4 directions activated - not very pleasant or useful ... and a big surprise as i too had ordered the stick on comments in the forum

i will likely buck up and buy the av8r stick for ps3 - as it is much nicer to scan the skies with! also wondering if it is somehow the thrustmaster stick that causes the interior views screen tearing, ??? as i get it huge !, but when using a ps3 controller don't experience it anywhere as much

a bit choked that such a brilliant game has a few nasty 'conditions' we might have to live with ... if the xbox set up plays seamlessly etc i may just have to make the switch!!

regards, Ron

[trk29]

hi all - i have both joysticks ... errr kind of

i plugged in my pc av8r - hat switch worked beautifully, but i couldn't reprogram all the other toggles

thrustmaster hotas x stick - only limited views with the hat switch ... 8 way switch but only 4 directions activated - not very pleasant or useful ... and a big surprise as i too had ordered the stick on comments in the forum

i will likely buck up and buy the av8r stick for ps3 - as it is much nicer to scan the skies with! also wondering if it is somehow the thrustmaster stick that causes the interior views screen tearing, ??? as i get it huge !, but when using a ps3 controller don't experience it anywhere as much

a bit choked that such a brilliant game has a few nasty 'conditions' we might have to live with ... if the xbox set up plays seamlessly etc i may just have to make the switch!!

regards, Ron

I get the screen tearing using a gamepad or AV8R. I thought it was because I downloaded from the europe store so I deleted it and downloaded from the US store and still same effect, I hope it is not as noticeable in the final game.

[towman]

So the aviator uses the hat switch correctly to look around but the rudder is either on or off and the TM can only look sideways and not backwards?
That's unfortunate.

[PF_Lizard]

I get the screen tearing using a gamepad or AV8R. I thought it was because I downloaded from the europe store so I deleted it and downloaded from the US store and still same effect, I hope it is not as noticeable in the final game.
I imagine it's a v-sync issue. Tearing is usually caused by the display and graphics card being out of sync. I notice BF:Bad Company did it on my 24" monitor.
It might go away with a better TV? lol :-P

EDIT: Good old Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing)

[Mr_V]

Someone just wrote in the aviator thread, that the saitek had no range of motion with the hat switch, so go figure. I guess i'll deal with it. Cause if the aviator had full range, i would have to get it.
The Xbox 360 version of the Aviator has a full analogue PoV stick, and not just an 8-way hat switch. I can't say whether it's the same for the PS3 version – I'd have to go play with one in a store.

[trk29]

I imagine it's a v-sync issue. Tearing is usually caused by the display and graphics card being out of sync. I notice BF:Bad Company did it on my 24" monitor.
It might go away with a better TV? lol :-P

EDIT: Good old Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing)

I have a 52" Phillips LCD running HDMI from my ps3 that I bought last year. This is the only time I have ever seen this running a game on my tv.

[PF_Lizard]

I have a 52" Phillips LCD running HDMI from my ps3 that I bought last year. This is the only time I have ever seen this running a game on my tv.
Yeah I was only kidding with the "get a better TV" bit ;)

I think it's usually more of a rendering / signal output issue than anything the TV side.

Thinking about it, you could try setting it to 1080i rather than 1080p? Interlacing should eliminate tearing. But of course, you can get scan lines on fast motion.
Seeing as the game runs 720p upscaled to 1080p, I can't see you losing out graphically by switching to 1080i.

Might be worth trying if it really bugs you?

[trk29]

Yeah I was only kidding with the "get a better TV" bit ;)

I think it's usually more of a rendering / signal output issue than anything the TV side.

Thinking about it, you could try setting it to 1080i rather than 1080p? Interlacing should eliminate tearing. But of course, you can get scan lines on fast motion.
Seeing as the game runs 720p upscaled to 1080p, I can't see you losing out graphically by switching to 1080i.

Might be worth trying if it really bugs you?

Maybe I will try to set my ps3 to only output to 720 and see if it quits.

[PF_Lizard]

Maybe I will try to set my ps3 to only output to 720 and see if it quits.
No, that would still be progressive then. If you switch to 1080i (interlaced) its essentially flickering 2 720px frames so you get smoother motion.
The sacrifice is of course, you're only really showing 50% of a 1080 image but seeing as the game is rendered at 720 there should be no image loss as such.

EDIT: I'm testing it now...

Alas it doesn't help at all! lol
I'm obviously talking absolute rubbish and taking you on a wild goose chase! 8)

I guess it must be a rendering issue :(

[trk29]

No, that would still be progressive then. If you switch to 1080i (interlaced) its essentially flickering 2 720px frames so you get smoother motion.
The sacrifice is of course, you're only really showing 50% of a 1080 image but seeing as the game is rendered at 720 there should be no image loss as such.

EDIT: I'm testing it now...

Alas it doesn't help at all! lol
I'm obviously talking absolute rubbish and taking you on a wild goose chase! 8)

I guess it must be a rendering issue :(


Then it's a game issue.

[Empi666]

So, to put this av8tr vs TMaster look around/hat switch thing to bed...

Are there any videos online of people using the av8tr look around?

Because now I am feeling like us Tmaster users are at a dissadvantage in mp.

[ryan2107]

I imagine this will be fixed eventually. It has 8 directions and it might not be as good as analog but if we eventually get all 8 directions that will work well enough.

[towman]

I just got the aviator for PS3 and the hat switch does have full range of fluid motion, however the rudder is either on or off, which is a bigger disadvantage for me, can't do small adjustments.

[Empi666]

Yeah, I think I'll be keeping the HOTAS. I've been reading about all of the deadzone and rudder control problems on the Aviator.

[FilthyPrick]

does anyone know what has happened to Anton's special announcement regarding Flight Sticks? It was due out today - so hold back on your purchases...

[rufuzmitchell]

Anton said MAYBE today,so it's anyones guess.

I have purchased the T master HOTAS X especially for this game,and while i'm generally pleased with it,there are some slight issues: yes,the hatswitch is 4 way,but if you go from, say, 12 to 3 o'clock,your POV travels semi-slow to the over the wing view.. this means that when you push the hatswitch up and to the right it goes to the tip of your wing in an arch (i dunno how else to put it,english isn't my native language) this imo gives you more than enough leeway to spot the bogeys..i don't have alot of trouble with it anyway....

The deadzone is kinda annoying,because it's really hard to make small adjustments,so you press the stick...nothing happens...press some more but slightly harder and BAM you overshoot your target!!! (even more so if you use target cam). The rudder-rockerswitch is also kinda twitchy,but it helps when you compensate for overshooting your target..

I really don't know if this is how those planes flew back in the day and i've heard somewhere that it's the game that has the deadzone problem and not so much the stick itself...I played HAWX with it,and there's almost no deadzone like in BoP....

Still,i really like my set up and the game definetly does not become unplayable (i only tried arcade,mind you). But i can imagine that it would be really hard on simulator.


I'm really hoping Anton's big joystick announcement will be something along the lines of :'' We WILL be implementing some more adjustment settings in a free update/patch!''

[FilthyPrick]

Anton said MAYBE today,so it's anyones guess.

I have purchased the T master HOTAS X especially for this game,and while i'm generally pleased with it,there are some slight issues: yes,the hatswitch is 4 way,but if you go from, say, 12 to 3 o'clock,your POV travels semi-slow to the over the wing view.. this means that when you push the hatswitch up and to the right it goes to the tip of your wing in an arch (i dunno how else to put it,english isn't my native language) this imo gives you more than enough leeway to spot the bogeys..i don't have alot of trouble with it anyway....

The deadzone is kinda annoying,because it's really hard to make small adjustments,so you press the stick...nothing happens...press some more but slightly harder and BAM you overshoot your target!!! (even more so if you use target cam). The rudder-rockerswitch is also kinda twitchy,but it helps when you compensate for overshooting your target..

I really don't know if this is how those planes flew back in the day and i've heard somewhere that it's the game that has the deadzone problem and not so much the stick itself...I played HAWX with it,and there's almost no deadzone like in BoP....

Still,i really like my set up and the game definetly does not become unplayable (i only tried arcade,mind you). But i can imagine that it would be really hard on simulator.


I'm really hoping Anton's big joystick announcement will be something along the lines of :'' We WILL be implementing some more adjustment settings in a free update/patch!''

Well, I hope so......but you can definitely not check your six which has already cost me plenty ONLINE as you cannot see how close the boggie is in order to make the critical judgement on when to try to shake them off with a turn.

[rufuzmitchell]

There is a way to do it (but probably not in sim mode) Whenever someones screaming there's a bandit on my six (or if i see it on my radar,i quickly scroll through all available targets until i track him with the target cam) It isn't perfect,but well,it works for me.

[bussinrounds]

I was just playing HAWX with the T. hotas X, and it def DOES have a deadzone issue too.

[rufuzmitchell]

I was just playing HAWX with the T. hotas X, and it def DOES have a deadzone issue too.

Maybe i didn't notice it much in HAWX,because you hardly ever use your machinegun,(atleast i didn't)due to the fire and forget lock on.So the necessity to keep your bogey in your crosshair (where i overshoot a lot) isn't nearly as pronounced as in BoP.

see,i don't mind the dead zone with regular plane control,it's when you want to shoot at the enemies up close where i'd really like the opportunity for smaller adjustments...

That said, i do think the sensitivity in the final release is somewhat better,or maybe i've arranged my elevator and aileron a bit different than i did in the demo,because i seem to hit my targets much more in the full game.

[rufuzmitchell]

Another thing about the hatswitch on the T master (i thought i post it here in order to avoid yet ANOTHER joystick thread + i don't know where the 'create new topic' option is :-P...)

But in setup 1,when you fly in third person and use the freelook/hatswitch..whenever i release it, it snaps back into cockpit view...anyone else had this happen? Is it a bug,maybe? I don't remember it doing that in the demo,but i'm not sure because i hardly played that in third person and mostly on setup 2.

Anyone?

[Adjuster]

Anton said MAYBE today,so it's anyones guess.



The deadzone is kinda annoying,because it's really hard to make small adjustments,so you press the stick...nothing happens...press some more but slightly harder and BAM you overshoot your target!!!

I'm having exactly the same problem with the Thrustmaster Flightstick. I also use it with MS FlightSim on the PC and it works perfectly without any deadzone. I hope there will be a fix for this as it does detract from an otherwise great game.

[rufuzmitchell]

I'm having exactly the same problem with the Thrustmaster Flightstick. I also use it with MS FlightSim on the PC and it works perfectly without any deadzone. I hope there will be a fix for this as it does detract from an otherwise great game.

I've heard that the aviator stick has it even worse,so i'm just trying to work around it..and i don't even mind in a sense that it becomes unplayable or anything..i just keep thinking: well, if this is hard..HOW in the world must those real fighterpilots have felt? If anything it gives a sense of realism,because i can imagine it would be dead hard in real life flying a real plane!!

Either i'm getting better at adjusting,or the sensitivity in the full game is better,but i tend to get a lot more kills in the full game then i did in the demo! the zoom function works too ( i dunno why,but i couldn't find that in the demo..) so i use that alot without target cam..and that works good too!

But since you also have a T master: do you have the same hatswitch issue when in third person? When i look around it sometimes snaps back to cockpit view,but not always...

[Pup]

... in setup 1,when you fly in third person and use the freelook/hatswitch..whenever i release it, it snaps back into cockpit view...anyone else had this happen? Is it a bug,maybe? I don't remember it doing that in the demo,but i'm not sure because i hardly played that in third person and mostly on setup 2.

Yeh this happened to me in the demo, noticed it when playing in Sim mode. Was in the Hud view or whatever its called, and when I used the hatswitch it quite often switched back to the cockpit view. I can't be bothered to test it right now.. but it might be when you press down on the hatswitch, since that is generally used to look down at the flight controls.

Still waiting for my copy to arrive, after a combination of zavvi not shipping until release day and a local postal strike :/ Hopefully be on it on Monday though.

[fuzzychickens]

Why should we be cripple by a deadzone designed for gamepad users? The deadzone should be adjustable for sure - or at least adjusted when select joystick configs.

[Pup]

Why should we be cripple by a deadzone designed for gamepad users? The deadzone should be adjustable for sure - or at least adjusted when select joystick configs.

tbh, i never noticed any real deadzone with the gamepad. It actually felt easier to target enemy aircraft engines with the controller. I hope they change it or give an option to reduce the deadzone when playing with a joystick, will have to wait and see what this joystick announcement is first I guess.

[rufuzmitchell]

Yeh this happened to me in the demo, noticed it when playing in Sim mode. Was in the Hud view or whatever its called, and when I used the hatswitch it quite often switched back to the cockpit view. I can't be bothered to test it right now.. but it might be when you press down on the hatswitch, since that is generally used to look down at the flight controls.

Still waiting for my copy to arrive, after a combination of zavvi not shipping until release day and a local postal strike :/ Hopefully be on it on Monday though.

It's strange and i don't think it has anything to do with pushing down on the hatswitch..i've tried several missions now and it's just random,i guess. One mission it did it all the time..another mission: not once!

I think i'll go back to playing with a pad for now..cause T master certainly has some issues....shame really.

[rufuzmitchell]

I have found out that the hatswitch-snap to cockpit is probably a bug in the game.. whenever i experience the third person look around and it snaps in cockpitview, i just have to pause and unpause the game..and it works how it should! Slightly annoying,but i'm glad there's a simple solution for it.

[nudger1964]

havnt seen this mentioned ( i havnt read every post of every thread)
but have any you tried the controller option " wireless controller(aviator layout). it will be blanked out, but with a standard wireless hand set it gives interesting controls.
dont know all of it yet,
but
on sim mode :-
throttle L2 / R2 (no input and its 55% throttle...have to hold trigger for different speed
)
rudder L1 / R1
left stick aircraft control (push for flaps)
right stick (this is the really interesting bit) FREE VIEW..press for change of view.
O button guns

rest i havnt sussed, and cant find any zoom yet...but give it a whirl

[rufuzmitchell]

I'll try the wireless aviator set up. sounds good!Thankz for the tip. I'm now officially hopping on two legs about the T master Hotas...Although deadzone is quite a problem,lowering the ailerons and elevator settings to say 30% and loosening up the resistance of the stick (screw on the bottom of the stick) seemed to help a bit,but still,my plane sways from side to side a lot when i adjust..you'll need to compensate for this hard,by anticipating how much it will overshoot and yank the stick to the opposite direction before it reaches it's momentum..a little opposite rudder movement also helps..(but tends to overshoot too) I've tried the reg.pad and like Pup said,it is actually easier to down a plane with the pad.

Another thing i found out with the hatswitch and the cockpit snap is that it will only do that if you have cockpitview set in the menu (beginning position). If you put it on Third Person (in the options menu) from the get go you can cycle through all camera viewpoints without it snapping back in cockpit.

[Houndstone Hawk]

I just got the TM and I am loving it!

I setup a chair in front of my 56", set a little stool on my left and put the throttle there. Then I set up another stool in front of me for the stick. Now all I need are some flight goggles and a flight cap! ha ha

The only thing I haven't figured out yet is how to issue the commands with the TM setup?

I am currently using TM setup #1.

Does anybody have any idea what the difference is? Or have a button layout for each configuration?
just sussed out the command issue orders with the T.Flight HOTAS X on setup 1 for ps3. The triangle button acts as a shift key for the hatswitch so hold down triangle then use the hatswitch in the same way you would for the directional buttons on the controller. Hope that helps.