Swastik

[wannabetheace]

Why there is no swastik symbol in any German plane in IL2. I know it is forbidden to use as a political symbol or something like that. Or is it also forbidden to use in PC games. I would like to shoot down those planes with swastik on it. Hope BOB will have this in the game if they want it as historically accurate as possible.

[K_Freddie]

There is a utilty that enables the swastika on german planes - someone else will point you in the right direction as I'm not sure where it is. Maybe google 'swastika enabler, IL2'

Don't wind yourself up too much about it.. that swastika enabled plane might just shoot you down.. ;)

[Nike-it]

There is a utilty that enables the swastika on german planes - someone else will point you in the right direction as I'm not sure where it is. Maybe google 'swastika enabler, IL2'

Don't wind yourself up too much about it.. that swastika enabled plane might just shoot you down.. ;)

Officialy there won't be such signs in BOB. They are forbidden in all variants.

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

Man!!

Now, all the museums around the world that have even pre-historic Artifacts with such symbol or a variation of it, must go imidiatelly and destroy them eh?

[brando]

Man!!

Now, all the museums around the world that have even pre-historic Artifacts with such symbol or a variation of it, must go imidiatelly and destroy them eh?

No mate, that's what the last lot who flew the swastika did, which is why they can't be used.

[Bobb4]

Basically it is rather simple. several countries have laws against the offending sign so no PC Game sold in those countries can display it.
So to widen the target market for the sims the offending sign is not displayed.
Modders will obviously make it available in SOW as they have done in Il2.
So the choice is yours as a consumer. If you want them by all means get them but do not expect the developers to lose sleep over putting them in. It is purely a financial decision. If they want to sell games in Austria and German etc they must lose the offending symbol.

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

Basically it is rather simple. several countries have laws against the offending sign so no PC Game sold in those countries can display it.
So to widen the target market for the sims the offending sign is not displayed.
Modders will obviously make it available in SOW as they have done in Il2.
So the choice is yours as a consumer. If you want them by all means get them but do not expect the developers to lose sleep over putting them in. It is purely a financial decision. If they want to sell games in Austria and German etc they must lose the offending symbol.

Thank God Zeus!!!

Thanks for Clarifying that Bobb4 cos i almost called in the Athens Museum to ask them to destroy 6000 + years of History ..

http://www.zg52.com/Hellenic_Artifacts/HellenicCrete_1_rs.jpg

http://www.zg52.com/Hellenic_Artifacts/AncientKore_3_rs.jpg

http://www.zg52.com/Hellenic_Artifacts/HellenicHelmet.jpg

http://www.zg52.com/Hellenic_Artifacts/Hellenic_Art_rs.jpg

Some of what that has survived the looting by gentleman like Elgin and such ....

The collection held in the British Museum includes the following material from the Acropolis:

Parthenon: 247 ft (75 m) of the original 524 ft (160 m) of frieze
15 of the 92 metopes
17 pedimental figures; various pieces of architecture
Erechtheion: a Caryatid, a column and other architectural members
Propylaia: Architectural members
Temple of Athena Nike: 4 slabs of the frieze and architectural members ...

[Bobb4]

Not my own work but interesting enough to post...

Nazi Swastika or
Ancient Symbol?
Time to Learn
the Difference

By Chirag Badlani

During a religious holiday of mine, my mother and I went to the store, Staples, to make color copies of a few Gods to give to our temple. On one of the pictures, there was a very religious Hindu symbol, resembling a Nazi swastika, yet the arms faced the opposite direction.

When we went on line to pay for the copies, the people behind us, not noticing the differentiation between the two signs, starting talking to each other, saying that my mother and I were Nazis. Quite appalled, my mother turned around and calmly explained to them that it was not a Nazi symbol, that the symbol first belonged to many different cultures before the Nazis adopted it. She explained the religious meaning and the people behind us said they were sorry and stated, 'Oh, I never knew that.'

I have realized that many people, not only in this country, but in the entire world, do not know about the meaning of the swastika and that it was not only the symbol of Nazi Germany.

The swastika is an equilateral cross with arms bent at right angles, all in the same direction, usually the right, or clockwise. The swastika is a symbol of prosperity and good fortune and is widely dispersed in both the ancient and modern world. It originally represented the revolving sun, fire, or life. The word swastika is derived from the Sanskrit swastika which means, 'conducive to well- being'. The swastika was widely utilized in ancient Mesopotamian coinage as well as appearing in early Christian and Byzantium art, where it was known as the gammadion cross. The swastika also appeared in South and Central America, widely used in Mayan art during that time period.

In North America, the swastika was a symbol used by the Navajos. The swastika still continues today to be an extensively used sign in Buddhism, Jainism, and Hinduism. In Buddhism, a swastika represents resignation. In Jainism, it delineates their seventh saint, and the four arms are also used to remind the worshiper of the four possible places of rebirth; the animal or plant world, in Hell, on Earth, or in the spirit world. To Hindus, the swastika with the arms bent to the left is called the sathio or sauvastika, which symbolizes night, magic, purity, and the destructive goddess Kali. In both Hinduism and Jainism, the swastika or sathio is used to mark the opening pages or their account books, thresholds, doors, and offerings.

The swastika was a symbol for the Aryan people, a name which, in Sanskrit means 'noble'. The Aryans were a group of people who settled in Iran and Northern India. They believed themselves to be a pure race, superior to the other surrounding cultures. When the Germans looked for a symbol, they looked for a symbol which represented the purity which they believed they contained. The Nazis regarded themselves as 'Aryans' and tried to steal the accomplishments of these pre-historic people.

In Nazi Germany, the swastika with its arms turned clockwise became the national symbol. In 1910, a poet and nationalist Guido von List suggested that the swastika as a symbol for all anti-Semitic organizations. When the National Socialist Party was formed in 1919, it adopted the ancient symbol, the swastika, giving it the worst meaning possible, destroying the good symbolism which the swastika had held for thousands of years prior.

In 1935, the black swastika on a white circle with a crimson background became the national symbol of Germany. The major difference between the Nazi swastika and the ancient symbol of many different cultures, is that the Nazi swastika is at a slant, while the ancient swastika is rested flat.

Today, whenever the ancient symbol is used, it is automatically assumed by most people that it is a Nazi symbol and that the people who use it are Nazis. When the Nazis took the ancient symbol, they erased the good meaning of the swastika, the symbol of purity and of life. The racist people of today further degrade the meaning of the ancient symbol by spray painting the swastika on people houses, cars, and even schools.

In my eighth grade World of Difference class, we watched a video about a high school art student who painted the swastika and displayed it in his school's art gallery. We then had a debate on whether the painting should come down or not. Because most people are ignorant to the fact that the swastika was not only a Nazi symbol, symbolizing death and destruction, the class decided to take the painting down and in actuality, the boy was forced to take it down. This is a prime example of how the world delineates the swastika as a bad symbol, and how the Nazis destroyed the meaning of the symbol by adopting it as their own.

The swastika symbolizes so much more than what the Nazis planned. The swastika existed as a symbol of good fortune thousands of years before the Nazis even existed. The symbol is to many cultures an important one, representing their history and beliefs. The Nazis, by taking the swastika, annihilated the significance of the ancient symbol. Today, the swastika is to most people a symbol of evil, a symbol of demise, and a symbol of ruination. It is extremely depressing to find that although the swastika is a symbol of life, and symbol of joy, it has been made a symbol of evil, something the people of the ancient world never intended it to be.

[II/JG54_Emil]

Will the evil Nazi planes get pink hearts instead, in Storm of War?
:grin:

[I/ZG52_HaDeS]

Both biased and irrelevant post Bobb4 because it is from "The Holocaust/Genocide Project of iEARN"

http://iearn.org/hgp/index.html
http://iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/swastika.html

so its focused at the Nazi-Jewish "holocaust" point of view, irrelevant for my culture and what this "swastika" symbol symbolizes, which it is not even "swastika" for us Hellenes but "Τετράγαμμα" or "Γαμμάδιον" (Pronounced in English like "Tetragama" - "Gamadion".) and these signs even decorated God Athina's (Athens) beautiful dress and Athina is "Still" the protector of Athens, the city i live. Moreover it has nothing to do with the Indian or Persian culture as it existed many millenia before these civilizations emerge.
The Christians took Poseidon's Trident and made it a Devil's weapon of wrath, they also stole Pan's Goat-like legs and they gave them to Devil.
So are these ancient symbols of my culture suppose to be "evil" or anything like this? Of course not. If you use the fork to kill someone then its not the "fork" that is "evil" but you. Should we "forbid" the use of the forks? No.
Simple logic, Aristotelian logic i would say.
I simply don't care if the "Τετραγαμα-Γαμμάδιον" (swastika for you) is allowed in Germany or Austria and i don't care what kind of meaning some people gave to it. I care about its use/meaning to my culture, and nobody can "demonize" it to my mind. And not only this symbol but any other symbol used by my ancestors.

All the best!

Υγιαίνετε!

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

will the evil nazi planes get pink hearts instead, in storm of war?
:grin:

lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thunderbolt56]

Go to M4T and DL this small file. Works well. http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=3530

Otherwise, install the UI 1.1 MOD pack and it will be on the default skins too.


2 short lines and a link can say as much as a 2-page post that most won't even read. ;)



TB

[csThor]

Fact 1:

$86 of the german criminal code outlaws any use of the swastika in Germany except for the following reasons:

a) education
b) documentation
c) art

Computer games are considered toys (as are models, BTW) and are therefore not exempted.

Fact 2:

Apparently 1C has decided not to allow the use of the swastika, let alone make a different version for the german market. (Hell, I even had to change my Balkenkreuz icon when I registered here, 'cause it was considered an NS symbol! :neutral: )

Those are the facts pertaining to SoW and whatever original or ancient meaning the swastika has or had in certain cultural circles they are simply irrelevant in this case (as the swastika on german planes has nothing to do with hindus, navajos or buddhists).

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

Yes Sir!! No problem!!

Just teasing & educating the guys :)

No hard feelings Eh? :P

[DoolittleRaider]

Fact 2:

Apparently 1C has decided not to allow the use of the swastika, let alone make a different version for the german market.
...
Those are the facts pertaining to SoW
...

Foolishness....letting the German Customer base Market (tail) wag the worldwide Market (dog).

But, on the other hand, Oleg knows that the third party skinners will immediately create historically accurate skins by the thousands, and all such skins for Luftwaffe aircraft will have swastikas. Basically, if I were Oleg, I would make only a single simple skin (lacking swastika, of course) for each of his Game-included LW aircraft...because no one will use them anyway. It would be a waste of 1C programmer (sknnner) resources to do otherwise.

When SOW:BofB gets released, wait 2-3 days and download accurate LW aircraft paint schemes (skins)....for free... from the amazing Community skinners.

[FAE_Cazador]

Will the evil Nazi planes get pink hearts instead, in Storm of War?
:grin:

May be not, but may be they will show green hearts !

But these I think you know them well !!

LOLOL

[Tree_UK]

I think its the right thing to do removing the swastika from games, my mate who had previously never seen one was forcibly held down by a bunch of skinheads and made to view one. The next day he single handedly invaded Poland!

[K_Freddie]

.. and there are a gazillion pacifists with the same symbol, having their 'rights' invaded. Symbols mean nothing.. it's just human excuses to do either good or bad.
:)

[csThor]

Foolishness....letting the German Customer base Market (tail) wag the worldwide Market (dog).

But, on the other hand, Oleg knows that the third party skinners will immediately create historically accurate skins by the thousands, and all such skins for Luftwaffe aircraft will have swastikas. Basically, if I were Oleg, I would make only a single simple skin (lacking swastika, of course) for each of his Game-included LW aircraft...because no one will use them anyway. It would be a waste of 1C programmer (sknnner) resources to do otherwise.

When SOW:BofB gets released, wait 2-3 days and download accurate LW aircraft paint schemes (skins)....for free... from the amazing Community skinners.

Full ack about the skinning stuff. However it's not just a legal issue (in Germany) but apparently 1C has rather strict rules about NS emblems on their own. When this board was set up I still had my old "Balkenkreuz" avatar and a moderator removed it and politely asked me to choose another as the Balkenkreuz was considered a Nazi emblem by 1C. Not even the german law does this (as it was merely a modification of the older Iron Cross marking of Imperial Germany) and we all know how fuddy-duddy german law can be ;)

[wannabetheace]

Well, if they outlaw the swastika why don't they outlaw black cross too changing into white cross or something lol. it's not fair for historic symbol.:rolleyes:

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

I want to point out one single thing -

A classic manipulation method is - Reverse Psychology -

The subject has no idea that the prohibition for example of - X - has one and only reason.

To create a critical mass of followers revolting to the prohibition it's self, hence reinforcing

the idea under persecution.


A classic example are the Christians.

Imagine the fate of Christianity if the Romans did not forcefully prohibit the idea.

It would have faded away like any other cult or what have you.


Get it? :P

[Igo kyu]

I had the impression that the nazi swastika was illegal in the USSR (as was), as well as in Germany, was I wrong about that or has it changed since?

[SaQSoN]

I had the impression that the nazi swastika was illegal in the USSR (as was), as well as in Germany, was I wrong about that or has it changed since?

It never was illegal in the USSR, or later in any ex-USSR country by itself. At least to the point it is in Germany.

The propaganda of Nazism was and is illegal in the USSR/Russia and most ex-USSR countries. But placing swastikas in fiction book illustrations, scale models, non-documentary movies and games is not considered as such propaganda, if it is put in a historically correct context (i.e. nazi symbol = bad).

BTW, Russian version of the IL-2 had swastika enabled from the very beginning.

PS Few weeks ago I visited an exhibition of knives, that was held here in Kiev. Among other interesting things (including kitchen knives $200 each and some hunting knives for $6000 each), they had a collection of Nazi cold weapons - knives, bayonets, swords, etc. Virtually each subject in the collection had various Nazi symbols on it.
And below the stand they had a small placard reading "This collection has nothing to do with Nazi propaganda!" :)
Should they not have this placard, they could have been prosecuted for the display.

[JG52Uther]

I thought the Russian version of il2 came with swastika's enabled?

[KG26_Alpha]

I thought the Russian version of il2 came with swastika's enabled?

And blood / gore enabled

[SlipBall]

It seemed to me that the swastik symbol in IL-2 was a bit small compared to old pictures and newsreels of the time period. I used an enabler found at the hyper lobby web site.