What's so good/Skeleton Archers?

[OGKingsBounty92]

I hear alot about skeleton archers but what's so great about them? I tried them out just for the hell of it and they were no big deal. I was a warrior and used the undead skill that gives bonuses but there's no way that I could improve their morale at all so damage was avg at best.

I used human archers with the batton and good morale and they kicked more ass. What am I doing wrong? :?:

[Elwin]

They kick ass with dragon arrows, and items which gives bonus damage like isharra's whip or assasin's dagger boost them greatly

[OGKingsBounty92]

They kick ass with dragon arrows, and items which gives bonus damage like isharra's whip or assasin's dagger boost them greatly

Yes, but that's with ANY archer like humans, hunters, and elves.

[Elwin]

not quite, it gives them more than them since they are more in number ~~ I doubt u can one shoot 16 blackies or 23 green dragons with elves ^^

[Metathron]

They are an excellent unit, FAR superior to the human bowmen, which I think are pretty mediocre, actually.

[Stepsongrapes]

Yes, but that's with ANY archer like humans, hunters, and elves.

It's all about percentage benefits.

The +1 damage items add a MUCH greater percentage to their damage, given their lower base damage, per archer. Also as mentioned, Dragon arrows results in a much greater percentage benefit, because they have the lowest base attack of the archers.

With + damage items and dragon arrows, skele archers yield the highest damage per leadership of any archer unit, by far.

[OGKingsBounty92]

It's all about percentage benefits.

The +1 damage items add a MUCH greater percentage to their damage, given their lower base damage, per archer. Also as mentioned, Dragon arrows results in a much greater percentage benefit, because they have the lowest base attack of the archers.

With + damage items and dragon arrows, skele archers yield the highest damage per leadership of any archer unit, by far.

Thanks for the reply guys. I'm missing something in the explanation..alright they get a larger % from +1 items but how is that if a +1, is +1 for everyone? How do they get more from a +1 than other archers given the value of what they're getting is the same? Say a human archer has a 20 attack and they get a +1 (that's 21 total) from an item and a skeleton archer has 10 attack and they get the same +1 (that's 11 total)..how do they get more and have a higher attack?

[Ryder]

Thanks for the reply guys. I'm missing something in the explanation..alright they get a larger % from +1 items but how is that if a +1, is +1 for everyone? How do they get more from a +1 than other archers given the value of what they're getting is the same? Say a human archer has a 20 attack and they get a +1 (that's 21 total) from an item and a skeleton archer has 10 attack and they get the same +1 (that's 11 total)..how do they get more and have a higher attack?
You misunderstand, the dagger and whip do +1 poison and fire damage respectively. They dont add +1 to attack, they add +1 extra damage for each troop number you have. Just as a dodgy example, say you have 1000 leadership and that means you can get 100 archers. Those 100 archers, with both weapons equipped will do and extra 200 damage. Because the skeleton archers are cheaper to recruit you have 500 of them, so all up they will be doing an extra 1000 points of damage.

That's why the Fairies, Sprites and Dryads are so good because of the numbers you can get of them.

[Elwin]

yep if u get this 2 items your skells will rise from 2-3 to 4-5 its like 2 times more, in the end game with warrior you will have around 2000+ skell with this items they will hit as around 4000

[Stepsongrapes]

Thanks for the reply guys. I'm missing something in the explanation..alright they get a larger % from +1 items but how is that if a +1, is +1 for everyone? How do they get more from a +1 than other archers given the value of what they're getting is the same? Say a human archer has a 20 attack and they get a +1 (that's 21 total) from an item and a skeleton archer has 10 attack and they get the same +1 (that's 11 total)..how do they get more and have a higher attack?

As others said, you're confusing attack and damage.

A precise example:

Skele archer- base damage: 2-3 (2.5 average); leadership cost of 14; damage/leadership: .178

Human archer- base damage: 3-4 (3.5 average); leadership cost of 50; damage/leadership: .07 (only 39% of the skele archer).

Even at base levels, the skele archer is much more efficient for cost than the archer. Obviously other factors such as morale, attack, etc. matter too. But roughly speaking, human archers are very overpriced, leadership-wise.

Now add a whip/dagger: skele archer goes to 3.5 average damage (2.5 +1), an increase of 40% damage. Human archer goes to 4.5 average damage, an increase of 28.5%. So, your stack of same leadership skele archers benefited 11.5% more from the item than the human archers do. The difference is even more dramatic for hunters, who have a higher base damage.

That, in addition to the already more efficient base damage puts skele archers way ahead of human archers. Roughly speaking, the math comes out to 177% more damage per leadership with the skele archer than human archer, using only one +1 damage item.

[OGKingsBounty92]

Ah, I get it now. Alright thanks for all the replies.

One more question..is there an item for "Undead" morale boost? I haven't come across one as of yet.

[Elwin]

nope there isnt such, undeads in most games like homm dont have morale at all which is kinda logic

[OGKingsBounty92]

Right on. Thanks. :grin:

[Vilk]

In fact they have morale, there's at least 2 items that lower their morale. Handy when you want lower critical attack of ghosts/cursed ghosts, useless for Skeleton Archer.

[OGKingsBounty92]

Hey there is a morale boost for Skeletons and other undead..Black Knights in the party gives them commander presence. :grin:

[DGDobrev]

You are right - but they are not an item, which was your original question :)

Still, those Black knights are sort of dodgy and hard to come by, even if they have more than enough places to spawn. At least that's my experience with them...

[shqiponja_hayabusa]

Usually higher numbers of lower levels troops will cost more than fewer numbers of higher level troops which will last you longer in your campaign also.

A question about hunters since I never made it to get to the place place where to get them.Are they good, or the elfs? Since they were really a pain in my don't-loose-a single unit- battles.

[sirmathew]

Hunters are VERY good,the best ranged unit imho,high damage,good hp and sniper ability.
Too bad i can't find them in my current game (yet) :(

[Razorflame]

furthermore because skell archers are BONE(they receive LESS damage from ranged atttacks

and since they are undead they are immune to mind spells and have 50% poision resitance) which are great bonusses for an archer!

[Shadowdrake]

Correct. :D

Skeleton archers are about in the top 5 most damaging units, even without dagger/whip. The only problem is that they drop like undead flies, meaning they're no good for no-casualties challenge and you're likely to lose hundreds of them per battle.

[BB Shockwave]

Use the Necro Call mod that lets you use "Last hero" as an undead-resurrecting spell. It's only fair, it was so in Heroes too.

I do, and I find Skellies a great asset. They killed the Giant Spider with three dragon arrows... (and a little help from my vampires and spells).

Also, ranged enemies are guaranteed to molest the skeletons, which is fine since they get only 1/3 damage from them. Thus you save on Level III Necro Call/resurrect...

[ludak021]

furthermore because skell archers are BONE(they receive LESS damage from ranged atttacks

and since they are undead they are immune to mind spells and have 50% poision resitance) which are great bonusses for an archer!

yes, and when you burn them with dragons or armagedon (or any 3000+ fire dmg), those 1000 skele archers will reduce to 300 in 3 turns by themselves turning them as useful as a pile of dog***t. They are too much hassle for a one 2000-3000dmg shoot. Id rather change them for one cyclops troop with stone skin and some additional armor later, teleported into middle of battle with magic spring on them.

Luckily, AI doesn't use mirror, if it did, those 3000dmg skele archers do would come back as 4000+dmg into their skulls lol :D I just love when 20 red dragons burn my units, even better if they do critical, then do mirror and timeback on units :D

PS. AFAIK, you can't use res on undead or demons and necro call raises units from already killed stacks. Meaning, if you loose 1000 skeleton archers and use necro call on that troop you might end up with just regular skeletons...