Question about army composition

[Cinderfall]

I'm a new player playing on Normal difficulty. I'm using the Warrior and I'm about lvl 12. Currently I'm using Knights, Shamans, Inquisitors, Alchemists, and Cannoneers.

I found Gift and have been minimizing losses as much as possible, but I've run out of places to find Inquisitors and Knights. It's not so much the losses that have used up my supplies, but increases in leadership. I refill my stacks when my Leadership allows, but just can't seem to find more dudes to add to my army. I'm sitting a little over 7000 Leadership, just got to the Dwarf area, found a nice stack of Alchemists, hoping to find another stack of Cannoneers as I'm out of those also.

I really like the composition of my army atm, and don't really want to change everything around at this point. Is the game designed that you have to due to limited unit supplies? Am I using too many rare unit types? Is using a certain amount of cannon fodder troops expected?

It doesn't seem like a good strategic move getting rid of a highly effective unit type in exchange for a weak one that I can stack to max size.

[Elwin]

INquistors are indeed limited and pain if you dont get inquisiton skill, knight are in infinitive numbers later in game in main castle,however it will be later and at that point you are they are limited and need replacement

[Akimbo]

Doesn't Sacrifice + Time-Back allow you to restock units, as opposed to just Ressing them? We could really do with a good sticky that explains these tactics.

[Cinderfall]

Doesn't Sacrifice + Time-Back allow you to restock units, as opposed to just Ressing them? We could really do with a good sticky that explains these tactics.

Haven't used Sacrifice yet and don't have Time-Back, so I don't know. I'll find out though, because if if lets you restock above the level you started a battle with, that sounds like a dream come true.

Is Time-Back an ability of the Death rage spirit?

Edit: Confirmed that it is. If I Sacrifice a troop can I then res it back to full w/ Inquisitors, increasing my total stack sizes without losing any troops?

[Elwin]

Yes but u must be carefull to not exceeed number

[Vilk]

Sacrifice allows increase a stack but that is tedious tactic. In normal mode it doesn't worth at all to suffer this. Also in normal mode there's no need to use any Inquisitors. In fact it's better to learn minimize number of death than rely on resurrect.

For sure some unit types will get limited but that's a good occasion to change and try new troop types. It's sure that it isn't good to replace a stack with another stack with weaker units but at the point of the game you are you shouldn't use already Knights that are strong later units. You won't find stronger or as strong than knights until later in the game.

There are many unit sources in Dwarf area and you perhaps get some bad luck and a temporary lack of good unit. Typical good unit types you get at the point of the game you are are:

Griffins: Very good unit, multiple way to use them.
Archimage: Easy to under evaluate them, I did until somehow recently. The shield skill is excellent to minimize death. Their teleport skill has many interesting tactical use.
Golems: Don't listen some people comment, yes they aren't that good but when you don't rely on Inquisitors or Resurrection spell they are an excellent unit.
Giants: Slow but if you have teleport or haste spell or even if your tactic skill level 2, they are excellent unit.
Shaman: With few luck you get a pack large enough at Orc embassy and those are very good, their flags are excellent to attract enemy unit attention and save units.
Canoneers: Excellent long range, but it seems at the point you are you get a bit bad luck and didn't get enough of them.
Ghost: Yes they involve multiple problems and aren't easy to manage but that is possible and don't forget that you'll be able to keep the stack level without any buy or resurrect.
Cursed Ghost: Quite better than Ghost and easier to manage.
Ancient Bear, Polar Bear: Both are very good units, It's possible you didn't get enough Polar Bears but for Ancient bears that is rare.
Royal Snake: Very good unit, usually you get many of them.
Sea Dog: Normally you should have get them with no limit from pirate isles and those are quite good unit too.


None are as good than Knights nor as special as Inquisitors but there's a lot to do with all of them. With some you should better use a reserve stack to have reserve to refill the stack, like Sea Dog, Royal Snake, Griffins. With Ghost and Cursed Ghost it's also useful to use a reserve stack for them even if it's possible to not do so.

For some basic tactics to minimize number of death and not rely on resurrect or sacrifice:

Increase unit protection with Archimage shield, Divine Armor, Stone Skin, Magic Spring. That is good to use with unit jumping in the fight less for long range you let in back.
If you get luck to have Phantom spell, experiment with them, they tend attract enemy attack and there's many little tactic to use them to hit first and then other normal unit can attack the same enemy stack with no retaliation.
Use Target to attract attacks on you strong unit. Typically Giant with some spell protection can do that nicely if you can move them close enough to enemy units.
Use the Lina ball to put it in contact to enemy long range and attract their attention.
Use invisibility on a fast unit going into contact to enemy archer. That will distract them.
Use invisibility on unit that did an attack and is now in middle of an enemy pack of stacks.
Use invisibility on a unit that is placed on a strategic place to block and disturb enemy units.
Use teleport to move a strong unit right in front of enemy long range.
Use teleport to rescues a unit that just attack and is surrounded with enemies.
Use Trap to slower a lot an enemy stack rushing on your lines or to block a strategic place. Trap can even be used against few long range for which the computer has some repetitive gimmick for movement before shoot.
Use slow to slowdown a dangerous enemy stack.
Use spells like blind/fear/sheep to disable an enemy stack the time you take care of other stacks.
Use weaken spells like Pygmy and Helplessness to weaker a stack you are going to attack.
Use Ghost or better Cursed Ghost to jump into the battle and take all hits. That's complicate to manage but you have plenty resources, protection spells or not, attack enemy long range asap, attack a stronger unit to ensure retaliation decrease a little the ghost stack or at the reverse attack a weaker unit. Keep sometimes your spell for the end of the round to keep a way to decrease their stack if you lost control. Protect them and let another unit attack first to increase and too low stack. Don't attack but just move close to some enemy units to reduce Ghost stack increase. And so on and so on, I think they are the more deep unit and the more rich of tactical resources.
Use Griffin with spell protection and use them to reduce faster multiple enemy stacks.
Use reserve stacks for two type of units you use and learn how get most death only on them.
Keep a stack at a lower value to have more chance to not attract enemy attention on them.

And so on, there are many more little tactics to lower a lot your number of unit death without to relay on Inquisitors, Resurrection, Sacrifice, Gift and other.

[Cinderfall]

Wow, thanks for all the info Vilk. I had the Ancient Bears for a long while, but started using the Knights when I realized how much sturdier they were. Good to know I'll get more in late game. I'll admit I haven't experimented with a lot of other units, I'll try some of those that you mentioned.

I'm really loving the Shamans though. Life totem is a great AOE heal to prevent losses if I stay on defense, Death totem attracts a lot of attention like you said, and they hit like a truck too, move well and have good defense. Probably my favorite unit so far.

[Vilk]

Yes Shaman are excellent units, alas in some game you won't get enough of them until late in the game and sometimes until very late.

You can't compare Knight and Ancient Bear, the first are quite stronger. But if you have learned the Knight special attack through a warrior skill, then they become even stronger. You'll get infinite supply of Knight and Horseman later in the game.

There's one unit you should have since soon in the game and that can be useful even up to the point you reach, that's the Alchemist. They seem weak because of a too high Leadership cost but those are excellent anyway to use for minimizing number of death.

You'll find many more tactics through posts of this forum, check thread around Spells, usually people explain why they prefer a spell and what favorite tactic they use with it.

[Akimbo]

I never did get on with Alchemists, they never seemed to do enough damage for my liking.

[Metathron]

Yep, me neither, not a big fan of Alchemists.

The only times they excel are battles that will get really packed, like the one in the Orc Embassy, etc.

[Vilk]

Their leadership is very high for a level 4 unit. They are difficult to use because of their unique standard attack and their slow speed. Their ability to attack above obstacle and hit multiple opponents is interesting. Their range ability and high health are interesting stuff.

For example they are interesting like you quote when there are many units but also with obstacle like often in swamps but also like often in pirate islands. They are also very interesting against a stack you slow down. They are a sort of half long range unit quite unique in the game. In the beginning of the game they are excellent units and you are guaranty to find a good amount of them in swamps. During pirate islands they are still good units, priest or archer aren't better for me.

They do a better job of mixing long range and short range than Shaman because range of 3 and movement of 2 give them a sort of fake speed of 5, not really but sort of. I prefer Shaman because of totems and real long range attack more powerful but Shaman can't do the same type of job because Shaman speed of 2 offer you very few opportunity to use their normal attack and that's quite different for Alchemist.

[Metathron]

Use the shaman's normal attack? Why would I need to do that? It happens in about 10% of fights, maybe, when the enemy gets within range and your shaman have no special abilities to use at the moment, so it's hardly a shortcoming. And their melee attack ain't too shabby either.

Bottom line, the shaman sweep the floor with the alchemists.

[Vilk]

I didn't explain me well I also prefer Shaman than Alchemist and yes Shaman are stronger.

In first areas you won't get any Shaman but you are guaranty to get Alchemist for a long use. Even in Pirates Islands you have no guaranty to get Shaman.

Yes Shaman don't use much their normal attack unlike Alchemist that what I tried to explain. :)

[Metathron]

Actually, in all of my 5 games so far, Shaman were available at the Orc embassy, so maybe I was just lucky? Though I think it's more likely that it's just scripted somehow that there should be a high probability of shaman appearing there as a sold unit.

Also, shaman were available in my last game in the tavern in Arlania, the one where you get the dragon's tooth quest. Granted, there were only two for sale. :grin:

[Larsen]

I'm a new player playing on Normal difficulty. I'm using the Warrior and I'm about lvl 12. Currently I'm using Knights, Shamans, Inquisitors, Alchemists, and Cannoneers.


It's a good composition if you can afford the resupply of your troops. As it was already mentioned, you will have hard time with inquisitors. A full stack of inqui may be kept when dealing with undeads (in combination with priests).

On harder modes, gold tends to become an issue and a warrior has to find techniques to win battles with minimized or no losses at all, without mana costly spells like resurrect/sacrifice/gift. For this purpose, a warrior needs crowd control and therefore upgraded slow spell (7 mana, speed-2, 3 rounds) is your best friend to my mind. This imply some adjustments on your troops.

For example I would prefer royal snakes before knights (at least up to mid/late level game) since there is no problem to refuel the snakes. This troop works remarkably well when slowing enemy stacks because of the lunge talent. When the talent is upped, snakes can lower strong stacks and be safe from the further enemy movement. When the talent is not ready, snakes can finish off lowered stacks. A warrior can do this without losses. Note that royal snakes have 25% critical chance.

Concerning long-ranged/support units, shamans, cannoners and archmages are excellent units. Evil beholders are also a very good unit if available in the freedom islands or later in the mines, for their crowd control ability and their damage output. Bowmen should not be underestimated. It is true that it is not the best troop on their own but they are easy to refuel and when used with dragon arrows and mass precision (which works too for cannoners) they nicely do their job.

Finally one of my favorite units is the thorn-hunter. The really main disadvantage (and its a big one) is their low initiative, meaning that they will suffer heavy losses if not used wisely. Even if you can afford thorn sprouts, thorn hunters should be used in combination only with onslaught. First round is essential, the round when dealing with ennemy long ranged units. If you are lucky enough, you can even find the crown of balckthorn (not that rare) which gives a nice 100% damage bonus to thorns, transforming your thorn units in a killer machine.

[Vilk]

Actually, in all of my 5 games so far, Shaman were available at the Orc embassy, so maybe I was just lucky? Though I think it's more likely that it's just scripted somehow that there should be a high probability of shaman appearing there as a sold unit.

You was lucky but not a lot. For all units it's somehow scripted and not fully random but pick among a limited set of units with a different probability for each.

I get one game with no Shaman in Islands but in most I get a good stack of them in Orc Ambassy.

In areas before you'll always get Alchemist and an excellent choice for those area, hate them so much to not try them in those areas is not the wisest if you ask me. :-P

[Razorflame]

alchemist are perfeect for darion!

but exchange them as soon as able;-)!!

with alchemist and horseman u can clear whole darion ^^
with ease!

alchemist got alot of hp and got nice bottles;-)

perfect for killing thorns or undead

^^

[BB Shockwave]

I used Alchemists up until the end of the Dwarven lands, then I switched to Shamans. They are both great units, and Alchemists do very well against pretty much all creatures thanks to their versatile potion attacks (though against poison-immune creatures they are not the best choice). However, Shaman offer more options for crowd-control strategy.

You can 100% sure find them at the Dwarven Alchemist in the Marshan swamps, this should be enough until you get to the Creiston Mines - if you run out of them on the Freedom Isles, just kill Lucky James and the Baron Ahey (both are pitifully easy fights) and rush to Kordar where even on the first map you are guaranteed to find some. The guy with the Hyena problems usually sells them.