HoM&M V Vs. King's Bounty Vs. HoM&M V: Tribes of the East

[CyberGuy]

I recently finished playing the game King's Bounty: The Legend and I loved it. I was not very fond of turn-based strategy game before but now I am hooked on it.
I have to wait a few more months for the translation of Armored Princess so in the mean time I am looking around for similar games and came across the other 2 similar turn-based games called:

Heroes of Might & Magic V and the stand-alone expansion called Heroes of Might & Magic V: Tribes of the East.

Which of the 3 games is the best? I assumed that since this is the King's Bounty forum that it will be biased toward this game.

Should I start playing Heroes of Might & Magic V and Heroes of Might & Magic V: Tribes of the East before the Armored Princess come out in English?

[Elwin]

As already someone stated today, both have their strong points. As single player King's Bounty wins definetly.U have nice campaign you can play it several times, but it will get boring after that. HOMM V is good for multiplayer and u have campaign and many maps ( actualy not itsleves but many maps made by other players) so you can play it for a long time.

[jake21]

I never played homm V (or tribes) but mostly because I played the demo and hated it. I did play homm II and homm III which I liked. I played king bounty demo and loved it so much I purchased the game the day it became availalbe (usa) and loved the game though after 3 plays (mage, warrior and paladin all on hard) it has become a bit old (mostly not enough unique items so I think I now seen them all). I hope the expansion comes to USA soon (but will play demo first).

Another game I really enjoyed was space rangers ii reboot (I did not play space rangers or space rangers ii). The game starts out very hard (well hard if you get into combat) but at the end becomes too easy. I hate the rts portion of this game but it is optional. I love the text quests but there are only 20 or so and I understand that is all as they are not making a sprace ranger iii or furth er expnasion.

I'm now playing a game that is not much fun but since I paid for it will finish it (nwn2 storm of something - the first two were much better).
---
If you want a fun turn base game look for age of wonders shadow magic - much better than heros V (though the graphics are around the time of heroes III). Another fun turn base game is civ 4 or colonization - they have modern graphics but are not fantasy based like heroes or king bounty. Stardock is working on a game that will come out in 6 or 9 months that might be worth watching. Not sure of the name but it is turn base and fantasy oriented. I mention them because like 1c they have a reputation of producing good games and being consumer friendly. Unrelated but 1c and Nike have provided very good support - the best I've seen in a long time and I truely hope they are making a good profit for their efforts.

[fld88]

I really like Kings’s Bounty and I’m looking forward to the expansion but HOMM has been my favourite game series of all time. HOMM has a much longer shelf life than because of all the maps, campaigns and scenario editor. Tribes of the East is the best but I would only start with that one if you were sure you were not going to play the previous two versions of HOMM V.

I too avoided HOMM V for quite a while because of not liking the demo but later I took a risk and bought the game and now I would say HOMM V is my favourite for single player while HOMM is tops for multiplayer.

[master.jimmy]

king's bounty 1990
Heroes of might and magic 1994

hoM&M comes later... i always wanna say this ;)

I ve played both. No match about it. Music, design, combact/strategy, arts. KB is so much better.
The only disadvantage is "no multiplayer game".
Heroes is a "stage/episode" game, KB has an history and it's 1 story. A Strategic game/rpg (with strategic battle)
In HOMM EVERY episode, u should "build",find resource, clear buildings to hire troops... very boring.
No match for me.
KB > all

[jake21]

Well steam had a special on HOMM V (v+ expansions for 13.00). I've played a few hours and so far hate it as much as the demo but I will play a bit more before deciding conclusively. This isn't to say it is a bad game - but so far the campaign is dull as can be. Then again you noted that you like the multi-player - can't comment on that aspect (yet) but to date for TB games AOW-SM has been my favorite (though the graphics are now a bit dated). Would love to see 1C do a new version of AOW-SM or space rangers iii :)



I really like Kings’s Bounty and I’m looking forward to the expansion but HOMM has been my favourite game series of all time. HOMM has a much longer shelf life than because of all the maps, campaigns and scenario editor. Tribes of the East is the best but I would only start with that one if you were sure you were not going to play the previous two versions of HOMM V.

I too avoided HOMM V for quite a while because of not liking the demo but later I took a risk and bought the game and now I would say HOMM V is my favourite for single player while HOMM is tops for multiplayer.

[Elias_Maluco]

Kings Bounty is a RPG game with a turn-based tactical battle system; HOMM is an strategy game with some RPG elements. Their combat system is similar and both have "heroes", but apart from this, they are very different games. HOMM is about strategy and city building and tactical combat and hero development; KB is about questing and exploring and tactical combat and hero development.

Personally, I like then both. KB single player is very good. But once you are done, you can only replay the same game with a different hero, using different troops, etc. HOMM is way more open-ended, you have several campaigns, 8 different factions, several single maps, hundreds of user-created maps (and some campaigns), a random map generator, and, of course, multi-player.

[Vilk]

I quickly look at the fan guide to get an overview and homm5 seems a lot about management, how to manage heroes, troops and cities to build more powerful armies.

My grin when looking at the rules is they made a confusion with the number of rules and game quality, no no this isn't linked.

The complexity remind me how complex had become AD&D classes, at the end it's more confusion than more cool features.

For the battles I noticed different things:

For all snapshots I saw, no obstacles or pointless in battle fields. Obstacles add a lot to battles finesses.
And I could not found spells like target, time back, slow, invisibility, sleep, skills of cannon fooder summon, walls, field armor like the glot armor, some complexity like damages linked to movements like for Leena Ball or Horsemen, enemy teleporting and so on. Ie all the fun is missing.
Units seems not have so many special talents and most if not all are purely based on fire power long range or close range. The only exception is perhaps some stuff linked with necromancy.


I haven't played yet homm5 but my feeling is that there are many strategy elements from resources, improvements, heroes choices, managing armies and movements and so on. But on the battlefield it seems a bit too much like brutal encounters.

I'll still try the game but I think that it's from strategical elements that I'll take the fun not from tactics in battle field like in KBTL.

[McSwan]

"And I could not found spells like target, time back, slow, invisibility, sleep, skills of cannon fooder summon, walls, field armor like the glot armor, some complexity like damages linked to movements like for Leena Ball or Horsemen, enemy teleporting and so on. Ie all the fun is missing."

Homm does have most of these.

Spells like time back, mass sleep etc. don't exist because they're hard to balance in multi-player.

[Vilk]

I understand the problem of multiplayer but that's also my grin, make a game for both always lowdown the gameplay quality for standard play.

About the spells there's in homm5, be less vague, what spell in homm5 for those:

So I'm not wrong, no Time Back, no Target, no mass sleep.
But there's invisibility? What homm5 spell?
There's walls to put obstacles like wall or ice thorns? I only saw fire wall and that's totally different.
There's slow? I saw haste but not slow. Some spell effect can freeze and at highest level that's a 100% chance but still that's not slow you use for a pure tactical meaning with a low mana cost.
There's free mass cannon fooder summon with zero mana cost? Sure the game allows summon, any game does, but for no mana cost, that makes all the difference and there's that in homm5?
There's field armor that disable any movements? Pure field armor is just another protection spell.
Leena ball is a very special thing, most player don't use it and don't know use it. But once you learn that's rather interesting. I won't even ask I know there's no stuff like that in homm5.
Is there magic spring? That's a rather complicate way to restore some mana during a battle but that's what make it fun. I haven't quote any stuff like that in homm5.
Is there mass Magic Shackles that block magic talents of enemy troops? Well units seems not have many stuff like talent but also I didn't quote any spell like that in homm5.
Enemy teleporting isn't teleporting, is really homm5 has that? In KBTL it's only through the use of Archmage skill but that's still huge and very interesting in a tactical point of view.
Is homm5 units has choices for attacking or using a non attacking talent? That adds a lot to finesses of battles and homm5 seems not have that.
Gift, can you in homm5 have units get back all its special talents?
Fit of Energy, is in homm5 you can make a unit attack a second time during same round?


Now I have played a bit homm5, finished the first campaign, start the second... and for now battles are rather pathetic in comparison with first areas of KBTL. Not that the game isn't fun, i have been catch but by the strategy aspects, in second campaign.

Mmm and for the quote I have seen some battles video of homm5 and they only confirm my feeling.

EDIT: And obstacles, no battle of homm5 seems have obstacle like in many of kbtl battles, and what make battles more subtle, obstacles obviously. If really battles design of homm5 had take profit of the same focus and quality than in kbtl, battle fields of homm5 would have much more obstacles.

[Elwin]

There is slow, it always been in homm series. Other mostly not but hell, that is good its diferrent.

[Vilk]

Ok slow but how different it is, slow is at best at high end developement 40% slower in homm5. Is this really useful when in kbtl against many units the result is they move of only 1 with a real tactical effect.

On resources managements it's sure that kbtl has problem, I don't mean complex resources system is required but troops resources aren't that well design in kbtl.

For battles design, different is a little quick, different but also much more subtle and interesting in kbtl.

EDIT: A bit out of topic, but not fully, the best would be that I could check a homm5 forum where there are interesting exchanges about battles tactics (and strategic too). Anyone can provide such link?

EDIT2: To be clear, I didn't wrote homm5 wasn't a good game not even it wasn't as good than kbtl, only that battles are very far to have the same finesse. Good game anyway... I'm just playing it. :grin:

EDIT3: I have to admit the game is captivating and despite see the next fight coming is a bit tedious because they are a bit repetitive. But I also quote some finesse points like a complex initiative system (kbtl doesn't do better with Cry Battle, Stone Skin, Fit of Energy, initiative and wait system) and more over more tools linked like lower enemy initiative. The RPG mood of first campaign is interesting.

[themaster]

If you’re smart you want to play homm3 or homm2 (homm2 is the best.. specially with CDDA music)

Homm5 tribes of the east is the best/prettiest.. but overall the AI sucks.. the game lags and I think all homm5 campaigns blow chunks.. but that's just me..

Basically homm5 is very pretty.. with absolutely no worthwhile or limited game play (get's boring fast)

I'd rather play king's bounty again.. modded with extra hardness then play homm5..

[Vilk]

I probably already played homm3... about music, most often I put it off in any game. About music I prefer stuff like that:
http://www.deezer.com/fr/music/izia/izia-293970#music/izia/izia-293970
:)

[garzahd]

I played HOMM5 quite a lot after it was first released, but not much with the most recent expansion. In general I would argue that KB:TL has a far better single-player campaign, but I do enjoy HOMM's multiplayer.

I can answer most of these questions:



So I'm not wrong, no Time Back, no Target, no mass sleep.
But there's invisibility? What homm5 spell?

No mass sleep, but there is a single-target sleep (Blind). And KBTL doesn't really have true mass sleep either ... you can defend against the dryad one by simply having L4+ units. Time Back, Target, and Invis don't exist in HOMM5 because playing against a human opponent makes those hard to enforce.



There's walls to put obstacles like wall or ice thorns? I only saw fire wall and that's totally different.
There's slow? I saw haste but not slow. Some spell effect can freeze and at highest level that's a 100% chance but still that's not slow you use for a pure tactical meaning with a low mana cost.

The new expansion (Tribes of the East) added a spell to place obstacles; it didn't exist before then. Haste and Slow both exist in HOMM5, and they're more powerful because they affect the number of actions you get rather than when those actions occur. To pick an extreme example, hasted blood furies vs slowed zombies, the furies would get roughly 5 times as many actions.



There's free mass cannon fooder summon with zero mana cost? Sure the game allows summon, any game does, but for no mana cost, that makes all the difference and there's that in homm5?

All demon units have a once-per-battle ability to summon reinforcements at no mana cost (like thorns in KB except without the corpse or adjacency requirement). The reinforcements take 1 turn to arrive, then another turn before they get to act, so they're not universally awesome. Demon heroes get a series of upgrades that affect demon summoning speed and which units have unlocked the ability to summon. Other mana-based summoning includes the Summon Elementals spell and Phantom Forces (which is like KB's Phantom spell except the summoned units have 50% evasion and 1 hp, but no time limit). All variants of summoned units in HOMM5 are not "required" to be killed to win the battle; they'll persist even if their creator dies, but if one side has only summoned units remaining, they automatically lose.



There's field armor that disable any movements? Pure field armor is just another protection spell.
Is there magic spring? That's a rather complicate way to restore some mana during a battle but that's what make it fun. I haven't quote any stuff like that in homm5.

Assuming that by "field armor" you mean Glot's armor, no that doesn't exist in HOMM5. The closest thing, Arcane Armor, doesn't prevent movement but does allow a portion of the incoming damage to still hurt the target stack. The rage mechanic of the new orc race in Tribes of the East also works this way.
Magic Spring doesn't exist, but Elder Druids have a once-per-battle ability to dump their entire mana pool into the hero's mana pool. This is handy because creature mana always regenerates at the start of every fight while hero mana does not.



Is there mass Magic Shackles that block magic talents of enemy troops? Well units seems not have many stuff like talent but also I didn't quote any spell like that in homm5.
Enemy teleporting isn't teleporting, is really homm5 has that? In KBTL it's only through the use of Archmage skill but that's still huge and very interesting in a tactical point of view.

Magic Shackles doesn't exist.
As for Teleport, it's a Light Magic spell, which means anyone can get it, not just Archmages. (Dark-oriented casters, like undead or demons, would have a harder time finding it, and would have to rely on a map feature to learn it.) Some heroes can learn Teleport Assault, which basically gives an instant boost of haste to the teleported unit, so they jump ahead in turn order.



Is homm5 units has choices for attacking or using a non attacking talent? That adds a lot to finesses of battles and homm5 seems not have that.
Gift, can you in homm5 have units get back all its special talents?
Fit of Energy, is in homm5 you can make a unit attack a second time during same round?

Non-attacking talents are quite abundant; priests, liches, shadow matriarchs, all demon units with summoning, sprites, druids and mages are a few examples.
Gift and Fit of Energy do not exist in HOMM5 (Though Fit of Energy, to some extent, works similarly to haste and teleport assault, because those affect quantity of actions instead of turn order.)

[Vilk]

I see you know quite well this game. Well currently I gave up played it more, mainly because of battles. I'll try something else, perhaps Warlords IV that seems have better battles. I read units had all 4 special actions, they level up, the IA is relatively well done and I read few comments mentioning that the battle system was rather good and deep.

EDIT:
Some remarks about your comments:

The mass sleep dryad and many KBTL effects aren't pvp design, that's already been mentioned in this threadn, homm5 pvp approach lower the solo game design quality. In KBTL the enemy don't have the choice to use level 4 units, you use sleep of dryad when the case is good that adds to tactical diversity.
Good they add obstacles summon, too bad I haven't this addon because I'm using homm5 mac.
I don't understand your comment about slow and haste. In homm5, if I understood well they don't affect only number of movements but also a little the initiative, as both are linked in homm5. In KBTL they affect only number of movement but on KBTL movements of 1 is a huge effect on KBTL battle boards. I didn't feel it the same and from far in homm5 for the slow spell. For haste ok it could be more powerful in homm5 but in practice slow involves much more tactical depth than haste.
Summon based on mana and limited unit summon is rather different than unlimited summon there's in KBTL opening some cannon fooder tactics you can't apply otherwise.
About teleporting enemy units I don't think homm5 has that unlike Archmage KBTL. Also KBTL has another minor enemy teleporting, well sort of it's some special attack that push back enemy, like for ghosts and cyclops. KBTL has also haste and normal teleporting spell.
About fit of energy, I totally agree homm5 has some replacement through the complex initiative system.

[sMull]

One thing is for certain, the artwork of KB is miles beyond that of Heroes5. Honestly in that aspects Heroes5 looks like some budget game compared to KB. The maps are beautiful in KB.

[Ryder]

I finally upgraded my PC last year, started playing Heroes 5 after struggling to do so for ages. I got up to the last map inthe first campaign and then recieved Kings Bounty in the mail. One year later, HV still hasnt had a look in. There is no comparison.

I am playing Heroes 1 and 2 and also MM2 to MM6 whilst I wait for KB:AP however.

[vokmitsir]

Kings Bounty is a RPG game with a turn-based tactical battle system; HOMM is an strategy game with some RPG elements. Their combat system is similar and both have "heroes"

[Razorflame]

ha i rather play ANY homm than KB:TL

sure KB:TL was great once u finished it but afterwards there is nothing to be done

the maps stay the same
the unit combo's stay the same
even the spell u use will be the same


i really got bored of KB:TL after some extensive research on the game KB:TL is very limited without a multiplayer option or some variation in the quest

homm5 however is better in my eyes

you can use different hero builds to your liking

and the ai is tough sometimes to beat;-)

any homm5 player remember the cultist? this map is a pain in the ass:)
took me several tries to get this map down the rest is rather easy:)

and to be honest i love to replay each homm from time to time..

but with KB:tl 2-3 months of extensive gaming and i all ended i don't feel the urge to play it again
it has no kicks in it anymore

everything has been done by either me or other players on this forum


homm is a far more extend universe:D

[Elias_Maluco]

ha i rather play ANY homm than KB:TL

sure KB:TL was great once u finished it but afterwards there is nothing to be done

the maps stay the same
the unit combo's stay the same
even the spell u use will be the same


i really got bored of KB:TL after some extensive research on the game KB:TL is very limited without a multiplayer option or some variation in the quest

homm5 however is better in my eyes

you can use different hero builds to your liking

and the ai is tough sometimes to beat;-)

any homm5 player remember the cultist? this map is a pain in the ass:)
took me several tries to get this map down the rest is rather easy:)

and to be honest i love to replay each homm from time to time..

but with KB:tl 2-3 months of extensive gaming and i all ended i don't feel the urge to play it again
it has no kicks in it anymore

everything has been done by either me or other players on this forum


homm is a far more extend universe:D

To be fair, there is a good amounbt of randomness in this game: the kind of troops you get offered on places, the artifacts and spells you find, the enemy heroes you find, etc. Also, you can always create some variety yourself by using different troops, we have a lot of different types to choose from.

That said, yeah, I wish that was multi-player and/or another mode of play with a random generated map and more open-ended gameplay. Or at least a map editor.

[Razorflame]

i already tried almost everything in KB:TL

in homm i haven't done that yet;-)

heroic on homm is much harder than impossible here;-)

[markgil]

hopefully Heroes VI will be more like II & III than IV & V. Disciples III is looking quite promising & Stardocks Elemental-WOM is going to be awesome. i also wonder if AP will be the last iteration in the KB series. now if I2 would only announce Warlords V & WBC IV and Time Gate a Kohan 3!

[Razorflame]

indeed i really aiming for homm VI and disciples 3 they look very entertaining

and WBC also great game;-)

warlords is rather easy ^^

get a good hero and steamroll all :D

[Elias_Maluco]

i already tried almost everything in KB:TL

in homm i haven't done that yet;-)

heroic on homm is much harder than impossible here;-)

When heroic becomes easy (cause the AI is stupid, dont matter how much it cheats), try multiplayer, with the guys from this forum:

http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=1

You will find that heroic is nothing compared to a smart human player.

Also, HoMM 5 is pretty much like 3 and 2, the 4th is the different one. If they give us and improved HoMM 5, with better AI, better engine, better balance, some tweaks, I would be pretty happy.

[Razorflame]

do smart human homm players exist?:D

it all depends on how you build your hero and how effective you are with your troops losing hardly troops in hard fights:)

kamikaze dungeon rocks:)

[themaster]

ha i rather play ANY homm than KB:TL

sure KB:TL was great once u finished it but afterwards there is nothing to be done

the maps stay the same
the unit combo's stay the same
even the spell u use will be the same


i really got bored of KB:TL after some extensive research on the game KB:TL is very limited without a multiplayer option or some variation in the quest

homm5 however is better in my eyes

you can use different hero builds to your liking

and the ai is tough sometimes to beat;-)

any homm5 player remember the cultist? this map is a pain in the ass:)
took me several tries to get this map down the rest is rather easy:)

and to be honest i love to replay each homm from time to time..

but with KB:tl 2-3 months of extensive gaming and i all ended i don't feel the urge to play it again
it has no kicks in it anymore

everything has been done by either me or other players on this forum


homm is a far more extend universe:DI know it's a old post.. don't care

I'd rather play kings bounty 7 times over than play homm5..

Homm5's AI is slow! (I mean if you turn it up.. and not very good I think) and it seems like they designed the game 90% to be flashy and less on game play.. one thing kings bounty actually has is game play w/ flash ;)

I also don't like/find exciting homm5's campaign where as homm2 is great and homm3.. get's old after your charachter gets god awful powerful! (yah, know 3-4 dimension doors to any castle etc.! :))

I really like homm2 and partially 3 (and even 1 it's older now :)) but 4 I don't want to play for some reason.. 5 is mostly boring.. mostly..

I would rather play homm2 (which has good AI) or homm3 (which has poor AI) but neater features.. sorta.. then homm5 any day.. or kings bounty :) (both versions as of now!) Armored Princess beginning challenge rocks.. but gets old after the challenge is over! :)

[BB Shockwave]

Totally agreed. HOMMIII is still my favourite iteration of the HOMM series. IV, while not bad on its own with the new skill system, was very different (you could easily annihilate enemy armies with just your own hero and no army, you couldn't cast a spell anytime you wanted but had to wait your turn).

I immensely dislike HOMMV. Not just for the WOW/Warhammer-mimicking art style that was such a big change from the bright colorfull style of II-III-IV, but for one reason:
-Initiative.

They really messed that one up, unlike KB where there is still an initiative system but you can easily tell when your units will act. There are no real rounds as such in HOMMV, some creatures can act twice before another even gets a shot off. To make matters worse, your hero is limited by initiative too, which for spellcasters severely limits the clever use of spells at your choice of the moment.

The skill system was nice, and the unit abilities are nice too, but compared to KB's unit roster, not so innovative. Another big minus was, for me, the change from Hexagonal to square, and the "big units". In hexagonal system, big units were 2 hexes, and that wasn't a big problem on the battlefield. In the square system, they are 2x2 squares big, and the battlefield is usually very small, making movement very very hard for non-flying large units.

I upgraded my computer just to play with HOMMV, 2 years ago, and as of yet I have not gone further then the Warlock campaign... I just lost interest. The skill system, while usefull, was a lottery - you would try getting some of the nice combo skills, but you had no guarantee you will get the chance to pick up the pre-requisites. I would now rather play with the normal HOMMIII (not WOG, that mod is a mess and too over-complicated sadly...) then V.

[goodview]

king's bounty 1990
Heroes of might and magic 1994

hoM&M comes later... i always wanna say this ;)

I ve played both. No match about it. Music, design, combact/strategy, arts. KB is so much better.
The only disadvantage is "no multiplayer game".
Heroes is a "stage/episode" game, KB has an history and it's 1 story. A Strategic game/rpg (with strategic battle)
In HOMM EVERY episode, u should "build",find resource, clear buildings to hire troops... very boring.
No match for me.
KB > all

Vol 2 on 1988

http://www.pantip.com/tech/games/topic/GC2968476/GC2968476-73.jpg