difference between R1: SC 500 and U3: SC 500?

[II/JG54_Emil]

What the difference between a R1: SC 500 and a U3: SC 500 bomb?

[robtek]

afaik the u3 modifikation was made in the field and the r1 at the factory.
the r1 has less drag and impairs the plane less.

[II/JG54_Emil]

afaik the u3 modifikation was made in the field and the r1 at the factory.
the r1 has less drag and impairs the plane less.

many thanks for the quick reply

[JG27CaptStubing]

Actually if I'm not mistaken one actually removes your outter guns which is supposed to help in terms of weight. In the game it doesn't help at all because you still have a bomb rack even after droping the bomb. You will suffer in terms of speed and turning so it doesn't make sense to remove your outter guns. I wish it did.

[robtek]

u3 removes the guns, me thinks.

[KG26_Alpha]

The bomb rack isn't modelled to cause any effect in terms of performance.

[Anak]

actually, having ECT rack in early anton causes depending on model 20mph and wing racks bout 10mph additional loss in speed...

[rakinroll]

The bomb rack isn't modelled to cause any effect in terms of performance.
Hello Alpha,
are you sure about that? Do you have any test results?

[KG26_Alpha]

Once the bomb is dropped the rack has no effect on drag.

This was discussed over 5-6 years ago with Oleg/1C team.

This thread has some discussion in 2004, some of the bugs were never fixed as far as I know.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4971017542/p/1

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/926100171?r=926100171#926100171

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/550100195?r=850105295#850105295

[rakinroll]

Thank you.

[JG27CaptStubing]

The bomb rack isn't modelled to cause any effect in terms of performance.

This is incorrect when it comes to the A-4 though the A-6 Series. The A-8 and the A-9 the bomb rack isn't modeled.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Once the bomb is dropped the rack has no effect on drag.

This was discussed over 5-6 years ago with Oleg/1C team.

This thread has some discussion in 2004, some of the bugs were never fixed as far as I know.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4971017542/p/1

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/926100171?r=926100171#926100171

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/550100195?r=850105295#850105295

Your statment is incorrect.. The A-4 through the A-6 suffer from the bomb rack when taking a bomb even after dropping your bomb. It effects the top speed compared to a clean version of the plane. You need to read through your links carefuly to understand what's going on.

That why going with the option of removing your outter guns you don't gain any additional speed for the lost of weight nor does it affect turning or stall speed. When you remove your outter guns it puts a bomb rack on. Look at your second link. I can also confirm this through experience.

What is adding to the confusion is the fact the A-8 and the A-9 series doesn't suffer from the bomb rack even if you take a bomb. Once you drop your bomb its as if you're in a clean version of the plane. This is a well known error. There are many others I can point out about the FW series but it sorta pointless given nothing will be done about it.

[KG26_Alpha]

The bug was fixed, but the rack was left as having no effect on the aircraft once the bomb was released, as per the last sentence in your post.

I'm just pointing out it was a known bug with the A's that the rack didn't affect the aircraft, though there were/are problems with some of the load outs.

I didn't make a statement declaring anything, just pointed out some know facts.

:)

BTW: the roll rate was/should be affected by removing outer cannons.

[JG27CaptStubing]

The bug was fixed, but the rack was left as having no effect on the aircraft once the bomb was released, as per the last sentence in your post.

I'm just pointing out it was a known bug with the A's that the rack didn't affect the aircraft, though there were/are problems with some of the load outs.

I didn't make a statement declaring anything, just pointed out some know facts.

:)

BTW: the roll rate was/should be affected by removing outer cannons.

I still don't think you understand... The rack does have an effect on the A4 -A6 and it doesn't on the A8 and A9.

Removing the guns does nothing to affect performance in any way shape or form. By selecting the option it puts a bomb rack on and depending upon the plane it can be some 15kmh slower. There is no performance gain by going with this option in fact your slower than taking a clean version of the plane with full cannons.

Here is the first post in the second link supporting what I've said all along.

"Posted Mon January 26 2004 06:28
I made some simple tests with different Fw-190 loadouts and made some interesting observations. Please forgive me if this subject already has been covered.

First the A-4. I tested topspeed on SL with different loadouts. Settings were full real + speedbar, standart quickmission on the Crimea, steadily racing along the waves. I used 110% power, rad closed and auto-RPM.

Standart loadout: 530 kph
U1: 2x MG151/20: 520 kph
U1: Sc250: 520 kph
U3: Sc500: 520 kph
R1: Sc500: 520 kph

Please note I dropped to bomb first and checked top speed with the corrsponding bomb-rack.

Observations:

-The U1: 2x MG151 option looks absolutly useless to me. While it removes the outer guns and the machineguns ( I guess for better performance ), it adds the centerline bomrack to the plane. So you get a plane with reduced firepower that is actualy slower than with the standart armement ! Any chance to remove the bombrack on this loadout ? To reduce firepower for better performance (*better* ) looks usefull for me.

-The U3 option looks quite useless too, comparing to R1. With R1 you keep the outer guns while carrying a bomb with exactly the same topspeed as with U3. So the presence of the outer guns doesn't seem to have any influence on topspeed. Perhaps it affects rollrate, climrate or maneuverability.


-------

Now to the A-8:

Same settings, but with WEP.

Standart: 575 kph
Sc500: 575 kph
None: 575 kph

Please note again that I tested speed after droping the bomb to check speed with the rack.

The A-8 model always has the bomrack installed ( graphicaly ) and it actualy seems to carry it all the time FM wise. Top speed with standart armement is identical with top speed after dropping a bomb. This means that even the standart loadout includes the bombrack !
I don't know if late Fw-190 always carried it, but I can hardly imagine they did so ! Is there any chance Oleg can remove that brick from our non-jabo 190 ?"

[KG26_Alpha]

Ok

lets look at this from past to present.

The bomb rack alone does not affect the ac performance.

It never did.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Ok

lets look at this from past to present.

The bomb rack alone does not affect the ac performance.

It never did.

Did you go to school in a short bus? Are you actually reading my post or is it that you just don't want to believe me. It's okay if it's the later because it's been well tested.

The Bomb rack effects the top speed of the A4 through the A6 series Antons period. So in short you're flat out wrong.

I highly recommend you go test it yourself and get back to me.

Take the A4 with the default load that has NO BOMB RACK pick a map and fly straight and level at what ever Alt you choose. Note the indicated airspeed once you've achieved maximum speed for that Alt. Then pick the U1 configuration which adds the bomb rack and takes the outter 20FFs and fly the same map same alt and let me know if you get the same speed out her.

The fact is you won't. The reason? The bomb rack adds drag to the plane.

[KG26_Alpha]

There's no need to be impolite and rude.

The differences are only 5 kph and these can be trim,fuel, altitude and weather dependant too.

I just retested after years of promising myself not to. :grin:


1*
Fw190 A4

Map: Crimea

Time: 12:00

Weather: Good

Fuel:50%

Arming: Empty

Altitude: 150m

Max Airspeed: 525kph IAS

2*
Fw190 A4

Map: Crimea

Time: 12:00

Weather: Good

Fuel:50%

Arming: Default

Altitude: 150m

Max Airspeed: 520kph IAS

3*
Fw190 A4

Map: Crimea

Time: 12:00

Weather: Good

Fuel:50%

Arming: U1 / 121 outer removed

Altitude: 150m

Max Airspeed: 515kph IAS

The FW series are very elevator trim dependant.

I could make the speeds very different between the aircraft if not correctly trimmed.

[rakinroll]

Ok guys, maybe effecting to speed so little but what about while turning/rolling?

[JG27CaptStubing]

There's no need to be impolite and rude.

The differences are only 5 kph and these can be trim,fuel, altitude and weather dependant too.

I just retested after years of promising myself not to. :grin:


1*
Fw190 A4

Map: Crimea

Time: 12:00

Weather: Good

Fuel:50%

Arming: Empty

Altitude: 150m

Max Airspeed: 525kph IAS

2*
Fw190 A4

Map: Crimea

Time: 12:00

Weather: Good

Fuel:50%

Arming: Default

Altitude: 150m

Max Airspeed: 520kph IAS

3*
Fw190 A4

Map: Crimea

Time: 12:00

Weather: Good

Fuel:50%

Arming: U1 / 121 outer removed

Altitude: 150m

Max Airspeed: 515kph IAS

The FW series are very elevator trim dependant.

I could make the speeds very different between the aircraft if not correctly trimmed.

Thanks for proving my point... You are 5kmh slower with the Bomb Rack in your test. In the previous test it could be more dramatic. Yes I've been flying the FW for several years and I'm aware of the trim issue which can make up the difference with 5kmh however I can get it to show more of a difference as illustrated above in the previous test.

The point is the Bomb Rack does affect Performance depsite the fact you say it has no effect. I know you want to say it can be trim or weather depandant but if you continue to test you will see the bomb rack adds drag.

I suggest you do some more testing. See how it effects your turn rate and the fact you bleed speed much more rapidly than in a clean configuration.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Ok guys, maybe effecting to speed so little but what about while turning/rolling?

In my experience it doesn't really effect Roll at that much but it really effects the turn performance. You bleed speed off much faster and your acceleration is slower than if you didn't have the bomb rack.

This is well known.

Again I must stress that this isn't the case with the A8 and A9 Anton. Why that is I don't know.

[rakinroll]

Thank you Cpt, please one more question: is there any turn rate difference between turning with bomb and after droppning bomb?
PS: Just want to know if there is one more bug.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Thank you Cpt, please one more question: is there any turn rate difference between turning with bomb and after droppning bomb?
PS: Just want to know if there is one more bug.

I think I understand your question...

There is definately a performance drop when doing anything with a Bomb attached. It has a weight and drag factor. Once you drop the bomb you will see an increase in performance however on the A4 through A6 Anton you won't get the same speed out of it compared to a clean airplane because you still have the bomb rack.

This is NOT the case with the A8 and the A9. They have bomb racks modeled but it doesn't effect performance.

[KG26_Alpha]

Just to finish off with my last post regarding this.

It was a long time ago I commented & tested on the bomb rack issue, my memories were that the racks made little or no difference, its possible I was thinking about the A8 A9 bomb racks not being modelled to cause performance drop, and after such a long time forgot the early A's were affected.

The fact that the rest of the Antons performance was negligible with racks bombs didn't ring alarm bells that it is a serious problem when you add in other factors to the aircraft's role.

Have fun

[JG27CaptStubing]

Just to finish off with my last post regarding this.

It was a long time ago I commented & tested on the bomb rack issue, my memories were that the racks made little or no difference, its possible I was thinking about the A8 A9 bomb racks not being modelled to cause performance drop, and after such a long time forgot the early A's were affected.

The fact that the rest of the Antons performance was negligible with racks bombs didn't ring alarm bells that it is a serious problem when you add in other factors to the aircraft's role.

Have fun

It's kind of funny because I mentioned that you might be confused by the fact the later Antons don't have the problem several posts ago. I appreciate you taking the time to actually read my post before commenting but hey it's common in Forums.

Meanwhile it makes a huge difference in terms of selecting the earlier Antons as 10-20 Kmh can mean the difference between getting shot down if you happend to get caught during a Jabo mission.

It makes the option of removing the outter guns virtually worthless as noted by several others and myself in this thread.

It would have been nice to see them fix the problems with the Antons. Not to mention the really cool fuel leak problem. It's my favorite!

[rakinroll]

Tx a lot Cpt, i will take care of bomb racks after that. ;)

[ZaltysZ]

The issue about bomb racks were raised before somewhere. If I recall correctly, bomb racks affect performance only if you have chosen a bomb in weapon configuration; if you have not chosen a bomb, then racks will be only a visual feature without any drag - it is kinda a flaw of FW's 3D model.

[JG27CaptStubing]

The issue about bomb racks were raised before somewhere. If I recall correctly, bomb racks affect performance only if you have chosen a bomb in weapon configuration; if you have not chosen a bomb, then racks will be only a visual feature without any drag - it is kinda a flaw of FW's 3D model.


Actually page 2 of this thread has 5 postings about it in detail. I will post it again for the 6th time.

Bomb racks whether taking a bomb or a weapons loadout on the A4-A6 series affects performance period.

The A8 and A9 series it makes no difference at all. Drop your bomb and you're flying what they have as a "clean" configuration.

[41Sqn_Banks]

The A8 and A9 series it makes no difference at all. Drop your bomb and you're flying what they have as a "clean" configuration.

Or with other words: the A8 and A9 always have the bomb rack attached, visual and performance wise ;) Some kind of a "half full - half empty" thing.

[JG27CaptStubing]

That's correct. We will always have the Bomb rack on the later models and they don't effect performance.