OK or no no, download SOW [Archive] - Official Fulqrum Publishing forum

SlipBall

02-18-2009, 10:50 PM

There's nothing wrong with a download copy, as long as it's easily accessible to download wherever you want. Like steam for example, I can go to any pc in the world and log into steam and download my games and as long as I'm not logged in elsewhere I can play them. Now if it's like that %#%^ damned boonty box fiasco I'll pass.

Well, here are the rule's...would you like to change your vote???

Activation
The English version has 8 activations and 10 deactivations. The Quick Start Guide (pdf) has 26 pages dealing with Activation, Deactivation and Disk Protection. See our comments on this in the Documentation section later in the review.
For our English version, after the simple installation I filled-in the serial number when prompted and was ready-to-fly.
If you have an itch to purchase the Russian version, here's a great how to (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=33633) guide. Pay particular attention to the screen where it describes the Serial Number notice you should receive. That is key, pun intended. Make sure you copy that Serial Number and keep it safe, maybe in a couple of vaults. It's important. You cannot use the product without it.
With the Russian version you get 3 activations and 10 deactivations. Deactivations are used to deactivate an install before the user makes major hardware changes or reinstalls their OS. By deactivating first, they save one of their activations.

nearmiss

02-18-2009, 11:02 PM

There is no question putting up a sim for sale that has taken over 5 years to develop has gotta be tough.

Think about all the payrolls, the days and nights... and then some little ferret wants to acquire it by bootleg sites.

My thinking is... at this point of course. I trust Oleg to make sense of all the nonsense, protect his product and not destroy our computer systems.

I still won't buy the LockOn anything, because of the spyware thing. Then of course I never cared much for the sim. I'm not into Jets, one big Crimea map and shooting down enemies you can't see or have any real contact with does rate high with me. So... if I was into the jets and stuff I might put up with all the starforce/starwars stuff.

I'm a die in the woods WW2 combat flight simmer. I like the close in your face combat with non-sophisticated weapons. Enough speed, boom an noise to have a good time.

I'll support just about anyway Oleg wants to do it. I've never gotten any junk from him...except one session of starforce in PE-2.

SlipBall

02-18-2009, 11:07 PM

IceFire

02-18-2009, 11:33 PM

I'll do the download option...BUT...only if the game isn't crazilly restricted by some insane DRM scheme.

There's been enough backlash for people to hopefully figure it out....even EA who I have to say has not been so kind over the years has figured it out to some degree at least. I recently bought RA3 and they have been nice enough to make a tool available for you to manage your installs. So if you uninstall your install you still have 5 installs left. None of this...5 installs and thats it BS.

Chiz

02-19-2009, 12:57 AM

I think having a downloadable version of SoW will be very much on the mind of Oleg and 1C. If the discussion over at the zoo is anything to go by, it seems that Ubisoft may not be publishing SoW. If 1C do go with a download version, then it cuts out the large publisher, which should mean more of our money ends up with the developer, which is a good thing. It's may also easier and more economical for smaller publishers to have a downloadable version, instead of a cd/box run.

It can also depend on how the downloadable version is distributed. Is it a direct download from the game developer, or through a 3rd party like gamersgate or direct2drive? There is also the steam platform, which has a very wide audience (although most not interested in flight sims). IL2: 1946 is currently available via steam and I for one would be very interested to see how well it's sold. It will be interesting to see which way Neoqb go with Rise of Flight.

As for digital right management, I realise it's a pain in the neck, but it's here to stay and in the long run is good for the pc gaming community. I think piracy is one of the biggest reasons a lot of developers are moving from pc to consoles. Getting off topic here...

Slipball, there will be a boxed version of Black Shark in the near future, around the time of the first patch I think (tentatively March). With the activations, if you uninstall the sim, you gain that activation back (i.e. you only lose an activation if you have an untidy uninstall...HDD crashes etc.) and you can contact DCS for additional activations if you run out. There are a lot of people sharing your position though and are waiting on a boxed version.

SoW looks to be at least a year or more away, so Oleg has plenty of time to keep an eye on other releases in the flight sim market and work out which way they want to go.

wheelsup_cavu

02-19-2009, 03:48 AM

I want the CD/DVD
I don't want to have to keep paying for something I already bought.

I played Pacific Fighters so much that I wore a couple of PF disks out and bought them again instead of getting them replaced.
I wore out a DVD player too.

I bought two copies of IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946.
It wasn't necessary but I wanted to make sure I had a backup CD/DVD.

Wheelsup

flyingbullseye

02-19-2009, 04:38 AM

I want the DVD myself. I just feel better about having a hard copy in my possession.

About the DRM, I don't know but I still have my doubts that SOW will be at the top of a pirate list, not saying it won't happen however. Sure the graphics will be something to behold but considering the time it will take to become good at it as compared to a FPS is huge, that and the combat flight sim market is much smaller. Anyone know the estimated pirated copies of 1946?

Flyingbullseye

tagTaken2

02-19-2009, 05:51 AM

Disk.

I don't want something that forces me to connect my gaming pc to the net, either.

ZaltysZ

02-19-2009, 08:20 AM

First of all, you don't buy a game, you buy the license to play the game and the media (physical or digital) with game copy in it. Of course, if you have enough money and are allowed, you will be able to buy the game and even developing company, but if you are just end-user of game style buyer, you won't own it. This is applicable to almost all software, be it games, OS or etc.

Evilness or goodness of some DRM systems and schemes are just urban legends. I see the tendency that the more is hidden from the user the happier he is. Starforce was pain when it was introduced, because of teething problems with earlier versions and because it was hard to crack it back then. Most fuss was made by piracy folks; they published some details and increased paranoia. The funny thing that there are other popular DRM systems, which do "evil" stuff: install drivers, rootkits and etc., but no one cares about that, because... they are easily crackable?

If you wait DCS: Black Shark DVD just because you don't like activation scheme of downloadable version, then stop waiting. It was said that international DVD version will need activations over direct internet connection, phone or email. It is intended to be so, because DVD check was cracked in week after release of game in Russia, and developers want more protection to their work now.

=815=TooCooL

02-19-2009, 10:35 AM

Those who say he does mind to download the game and have to get his DVDs.. I understand their mind but they got to know that they are really behind the times.

Yeah, they are honest and faithful people to sim makers.
But they could never imagine how many copys of IL-2 have been pirated and how DRM goes well with games these days.
Be it steam or Star force, most people never found serious conflicts with PC and we need every protection to keep sims alive.
Those DRM naysayers are good guys, be sure, but simply outdated and knows but little of the world.

Thunderbolt56

02-19-2009, 12:25 PM

Digital content distribution is the way of the future...period.

But, given the choice, I'll always opt for the disk-in-the-hand option myself as long as there is one.

AMVI_YanLee

02-19-2009, 01:26 PM

I really prefer the boxed version.

There's something exciting when you go to the store and buy the game.. then u run at home.. the first time you open the box, the handbook... :cool:

S!

Red Dragon-DK

02-19-2009, 05:31 PM

As long its not through steam I dont mind downloading the game. I would simply NOT purchase it then.
But I think it should be available no both download and DVD.

nearmiss

02-19-2009, 07:36 PM

Good sense says," Oleg will release the BOB SOW through a distributor".

There is just too much impetus created marketing wise by going through distributors. They promote the heck out of products through press releases, trade shows, etc. It is just amazing how much more in sales will be achieved by using a competent distributor.

I wouldn't think Oleg would take the chance on recovering all his already "sunk" costs by doing a download thingy to a the dedicated IL2 few. There are a lot of sales that pass by the cash registers that never perk much interest in the buyer. There are plenty of impulse buyers that would never be interested to do anything with it after they get it. The learning threshold can be pretty tough on alot of people.

Don't bother me to get a copy at Wal-mart, EB, gamestop,etc. I bought the 1946 at wal-mart I didn't flinch at paying retail for it. Then of course I knew what I was getting... an anthology of five plus years of the best air combat simulation game ever developed. LOL

Urufu_Shinjiro

02-19-2009, 07:58 PM

Well, here are the rule's...would you like to change your vote???

Activation
The English version has 8 activations and 10 deactivations. The Quick Start Guide (pdf) has 26 pages dealing with Activation, Deactivation and Disk Protection. See our comments on this in the Documentation section later in the review.
For our English version, after the simple installation I filled-in the serial number when prompted and was ready-to-fly.
If you have an itch to purchase the Russian version, here's a great how to (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=33633) guide. Pay particular attention to the screen where it describes the Serial Number notice you should receive. That is key, pun intended. Make sure you copy that Serial Number and keep it safe, maybe in a couple of vaults. It's important. You cannot use the product without it.
With the Russian version you get 3 activations and 10 deactivations. Deactivations are used to deactivate an install before the user makes major hardware changes or reinstalls their OS. By deactivating first, they save one of their activations.

I specifically said as long as it was downloadable anywhere any time and was like steam or something. I highly doubt SoW will be like blackshark, and I will not download Blackshark due to the restrictions. The question wasn't "will you download SoW if it is like blackshark?", it was would you download SoW, I answered that question.

Starforce was pain when it was introduced, because of teething problems with earlier versions and because it was hard to crack it back then. Most fuss was made by piracy folks; they published some details and increased paranoia.

That is complete bullcrap and I'm tired of the people who say "only people who complain about DRM are pirates". How can you say that when you know full well the crap people are going through with the Securom on Il2:1946 and Vista. And I know personally several people who's pc's were literally damaged by Starforce, that crap was the devil! The pirates don't complain about DRM, because they DON'T HAVE DRM, they crack it, it's the legitimate user that suffers, like all the people who post on the Ubi forums every day saying they bought 1946 and it wont tun because of securom!

ZaltysZ

02-19-2009, 08:59 PM

That is complete bullcrap and I'm tired of the people who say "only people who complain about DRM are pirates". How can you say that when you know full well the crap people are going through with the Securom on Il2:1946 and Vista. And I know personally several people who's pc's were literally damaged by Starforce, that crap was the devil! The pirates don't complain about DRM, because they DON'T HAVE DRM, they crack it, it's the legitimate user that suffers, like all the people who post on the Ubi forums every day saying they bought 1946 and it wont tun because of securom!

I see you are that kind of person who likes reading text without paying attention to details. Sadly, you are normal by nowadays standards. :(

SlipBall

02-19-2009, 09:40 PM

I specifically said as long as it was downloadable anywhere any time and was like steam or something. I highly doubt SoW will be like blackshark, and I will not download Blackshark due to the restrictions. The question wasn't "will you download SoW if it is like blackshark?", it was would you download SoW, I answered that question.

Yes,...please forgive me on that

Urufu_Shinjiro

02-19-2009, 10:51 PM

I see you are that kind of person who likes reading text without paying attention to details. Sadly, you are normal by nowadays standards. :(

Umm, ok...

And that wasn't all directed at you, just that whole mindset that "DRM is only a pain to pirates". Ticks me off cause I don't pirate but DRM in most forms is very bad stuff (starforce, secruom).

ZaltysZ

02-20-2009, 06:46 AM

Umm, ok...

And that wasn't all directed at you, just that whole mindset that "DRM is only a pain to pirates". Ticks me off cause I don't pirate but DRM in most forms is very bad stuff (starforce, secruom).

DRM isn't pain ONLY to pirates. It is pain and to pirates (as supposed to be) and to users (not supposed to be, but sometimes is). However, pirates contribute greatly to whole hatred of DRM, sometimes even more than problems with DRM themselves.

HFC_Dolphin

02-20-2009, 08:42 PM

I really prefer the boxed version.

There's something exciting when you go to the store and buy the game.. then u run at home.. the first time you open the box, the handbook... :cool:

S!

I couldn't have said it better. So simple and so true though.

mrsiCkstar

02-22-2009, 06:57 PM

The point that I am trying to make is that you have a limited amount of install's that you are allowed to make for Black Shark, need more install's 2 years out?? then you will need to buy another copy...I don't know about you guy's, but I am alway's re-installing my OS and game's.

How many times have you installed IL-2, or your operating system??

I hope that SOW does not have any such limitation's on re-installing the game

It won't be that limited. And you won't have to buy another copy.

Here is an example:

The download version of rFactor was released years ago, you get 5 activations. But when you activate it, there is a license file in your hard drive that you simply back up. When you reinstall the game for whatever reason, reformatting or whatever, you simply place the license file back to your hard drive in it's correct place and the game is activated just like it was before, and you won't lose another activation. So in effect you will never use more than one activation no matter how many times you install the game. Even if by some miracle you did use up all of your activations, all you have to do is contact customer support and you'll get another 5 activations for free.

I'm not saying that this is how SoW will be handled but I see no reason why it wouldn't be.

There's really no need to be scared off by a download version of a game, with or without activations. You won't have to buy the game several times.

Foo'bar

02-23-2009, 04:35 AM

Is it ok with you if SOW is a download
- I don't mind to download the sim
- I do mind to download the sim

Easy: both of them.

Skoshi Tiger

02-24-2009, 11:01 AM

I just found this article about the success of steam.

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/137976,good-service-makes-money-for-steam.aspx

Economically I expect downloads are better for the developer.

My problem is I love phoning around the shops trying to find the first place I can go to pick up a new released game. I love the excitement as I drive home with the box next to me , reading it at traffic lights.

What I hate is waiting and extra three or four weeks after release before it hits the shelves in my town. While people on forums like this tell us about how great it is!

Hmmmm! What a dilemma.

6S.Manu

02-25-2009, 09:29 AM

Download with an online registration to download/install patches and addons: so if the game doesn't recognize your copy simply your game will remain bugged (because it's sure that it'll have bugs)...

Something like the old GTR...

But IMO the most important thing is having a private lobby (something like "Company of Heroes").

TUCKIE_JG52

03-03-2009, 03:53 PM

Call me I'm out of this world, but I do not buy nothing in internet. Will only buy the simulator (this and any other) when it's physically on my hands on the shop.

Respect for those who would buy it online, but that's my chose.

DKoor

03-05-2009, 11:26 AM

I want DvD.
End of story.

sop

03-07-2009, 03:56 PM

I don't mind to download a game

nearmiss

03-07-2009, 04:18 PM

The point that I am trying to make is that you have a limited amount of install's that you are allowed to make for Black Shark, need more install's 2 years out?? then you will need to buy another copy...I don't know about you guy's, but I am alway's re-installing my OS and game's.

How many times have you installed IL-2, or your operating system??

I hope that SOW does not have any such limitation's on re-installing the game

I bought the original BOB II WOV and I've had 3 computer systems since the original online purchase. There is something about a key (long number) you get when you download.

Scott has let me download the BOB 3 times since. I kept a copy of my email and I just include it with my email to him and he lets me download.

Heck, it sounds dumb, I can't keep up with original DL file to save me.

These game devs know they are asking you to do a pain in the arse thing, buying a DL file. The tradeoff is accomodating guys like me over time is still better than have the torrents rip them off for a half million copies.

If you want Blackshark tell them your concerns before you buy. I'll bet they'll be more than willing to help you out, if you lost the original DL.

ElAurens

03-07-2009, 09:31 PM

I have done both, and I must say that I prefer having a hard copy in my hand.

SlipBall

03-07-2009, 09:36 PM

Yes some good point's made, I sure don't want the game being ripped off, and 1C loosing any sale's. But there is something special about a tangible flight sim, or any game for that matter...I think its the picture and booklet, and the ability to re-install without a hassel

Sonko

03-11-2009, 08:34 PM

I don't like games that are only available as download.
I would like to be able to hold the thing that I bought in my hands.

Igo kyu

03-14-2009, 10:42 AM

Download isnt so bad, so long as it's free, uploading my card details to the net is very bad, I did it for Amazon, it won't be happening again any time soon.

unreasonable

03-14-2009, 01:19 PM

Latecomer here... for me downloading per se is fine, so long as no online activation is required for normal offline play. I do not mind activating for patches etc. But choice of a disc is better.....

frsv0678

03-15-2009, 09:53 AM

I prefere to have the "box" in my hand, it feels good to have it in the collection.
I know that is the "old" way, but at least Oleg gets his money :P

Aullido

03-18-2009, 04:41 AM

I always will choose a DVD disc.

DRM is a big NO, somewhere I read that the whole thing what DRM is about: it isn't copy protection, it forbids reselling the game.That hits the nail.

A sim is a game you plan to play for years and hardly you will want to resell it. The installation limit kills you right to play the game on the long run. I clean my pc formating my drives very often and that installation limit doesn't let me do that.

Copy protection is another chore, I don't think it is useful, usually it is cracked almost immediately. I hate to have services or process running when they are not necessary, those cpu cycles are for gaming. True simmers will buy the game, this is not a casual game, pirates can download it but I don't think they have the commitment to play them.

Simulations are games with a very special niche that makes DRM or Copy Protection meaningless. You only makes your customer base angry.

I was waiting for Black Shark badly, but I didn't buy it because those reasons. DCS just lose a sale.

I honestly think the whole thing backfires.

adapted.cat

03-18-2009, 05:13 AM

I don't mind downloading games, but I hate intrusive DRM schemes. Steam usually fits a nice middle ground for me, but when for example Bioshock came out on steam loaded with DRM I instead waited and got a physical copy that I could then remove the DRM from.

One thing that is a real issue with a game like IL-2 or SOW is the cockpit quick reference. A hard-copy of that would be worth paying a little extra for!

Furio

03-18-2009, 09:14 AM

I agree with Aullido: “Simulations are games with a very special niche that makes DRM or Copy Protection meaningless. You only makes your customer base angry”. In my opinion, the copy protection versus pirating struggle is much like cannon versus armor. As the cannon grows bigger, so the armor grows thicker. With customer being crushed under the growing weight of armor...

[URU]BlackFox

05-24-2009, 11:52 PM

If there's no download version how can we people from South America get the game? I'm truly eager to play it, and i'm 100% going to buy it if i am just given the chance... :)

As LeChuck said... Download version is a must!!!

KG26_Alpha

05-25-2009, 01:43 AM

Download or Hard copy hmm

I'll take the hard copy any day :)

But !!!!!!!!!!!

I know for fact one way to keep some Piracy away is to "Globally" release the software on the same day.

Last time there was a long delay in the US/Can etc, Europe had the sim weeks before them this led to squads being split as their European counterparts were flying around without their "across the pond" friends.

I know this wont stop Piracy but it will help to keep everyone in the same time frame be it released within a week at least.

Bearcat

05-25-2009, 09:01 PM

I prefer hard copy.

nearmiss

05-26-2009, 12:49 AM

I prefer a CD or DVD that I can just plug into the machine and install the app.

Also, the downloads all seem to wind up with the piracy sites. Don't know, but it seems to me like putting a small lock on the tool shed. People will not mess with the tool shed, something about the lock being there. Often, explained as helping honest people stay honest.

Skoshi Tiger

05-26-2009, 08:50 AM

I'ld prefer a hard copy.

But could I resist downloading BoB, when it will take and extra 4- 8 weeks to end up on the shelves in the back water city I live in. Hmmm! 8 weeks of reading all you guys saying how good it is???????? I'ld end up spending another $40 in phone calls to every game shop in my town on a hourly basis until I' had it in my hands!

dgeorge04

05-26-2009, 11:56 AM

hard copy

Feuerfalke

05-26-2009, 01:34 PM

I'd prefer a hard copy personally, but I also see the advantages of the digital distribution.

I don't vote, as my vote would be for a simultaneous release of both, a DVD- and a digital download-version.

@DRMs
DRMs have always been there e.g. by your agreement to the EULA before installing. :-P
Limited forced online activations is a different matter though and I wouldn't like to have that with SoW. But Oleg already noted that he doesn't like the CopyProtection methods of some recently released titles. He was probably refering to RoF, but I guess he also meant DCS:BS...
Let's face it: We flightsimmers put a lot of money in upgrades and hardware-refits, so IMHO especially DCS:BS is an excellent example of how Devs punch honest customers in the face and do pirating a great favour. :(