Oh noooo! My Thrustmaster Cougar is history!

[Viking]

Some guys in Holland are reinventing joystick feedback.
Se; http://www.guru3d.com/article/paccus-fluid-head-force-feedback-hawk-joystick-interview/

A bit expensive but it might (probably) be my next joystick.

From the interview;

“We assume your interface is managed through DirectX, but how do you control and replicate something like a force feedback ?
Although we can enable all kinds of keystrokes to the stick, for some features to work we still need input from the game designers.”

I do hope that 1C are providing that input.

[Chivas]

Thanks for the info Viking, this looks very interesting indeed.

~Salute~
Chivas

[flyingbullseye]

The concept is cool but the price is much to be desired. 250-400 euros! Wow.

Flyingbullseye

[Thunderbolt56]

250-400 euros would be o.k. by me if it is as good as they hope and is as precise and durable as well.

Oh, it would have to be lefty-compatible too. Given that single parameter, I assume I'll have to stick with my custom CH Lefty-Hotas_Franken-potato.

[AA_Absolute]

Oleg dont like force feedback, but i wait this joy (in two weeks, as SOW:BOB)

[mazex]

250-400 euros would be o.k. by me if it is as good as they hope and is as precise and durable as well.

Oh, it would have to be lefty-compatible too. Given that single parameter, I assume I'll have to stick with my custom CH Lefty-Hotas_Franken-potato.

Well, find a real plane that is possible to fly with the stick in your left hand without dangerous "cross hand gripping" (F16 being the prime example naturally ;))... Being left handed - I had to learn flying with my right hand 20 years ago - or I would be expelled from flying school :( It took a few lessons but today it's impossible for me to use my left hand for flying in any form, virtual or real. I use it for everything else though :)

Anyway - the stick looks great, and I agree with you that the price is fine if it lives up to the design goals they have set up!

/Mazex

[engadin]

Oleg dont like force feedback, but i wait this joy (in two weeks, as SOW:BOB)

Come on, Abso, this time it looks so serious Oleg, I'm sure, will give a try to these really cool and wet [hidraulic] concept from a couple of FFB fan engineers like him [engineers I mean].

From my humble point of view, no other FFB joystick comes near to what this new prototipe means: a further and critical step - the hidraulic one - has been taken by these guys, rising FFB and inmersion-through-joystick to new heights. I am really excited about this and cross my fingers for these guys and their fabulous brand new joy to enter the production line, alone [like many others did at first] or in partnership with another company.

I really feel the time to say 'Goodby ol' fella' to my faithful Sidewinder FFB2 and get in a new era of inmersion is closer than ever.

engadin.

[VMF-214_HaVoK]

(in two weeks, as SOW:BOB)

After all these years I am amazed there are still people out there who find any kind of humor in the 2 weeks comment. I find none whatsoever...its not funny. Must be comical to the new guys who were not even around when it all started or something. I guess I just dont get it. Fact is Oleg has only ever used that comment one time and even then it was taken out of context. And he most certainly never made it regarding the shipment of SoW. Why does he have issues with FFB? It works fine in IL2.

[engadin]

Well HaVoK, there is nothing wrong about FFB right now, but as anything in life it is suitable to be improved and this is the very case. If this reason is not enough for you, Oleg is very far from being an FFB enthusiast from the beginning, and from my PoV this is a nice chance to change his mind towards this very inmersive (isn't it?) feature. And if that finally happens, for you and me that would be very good news.

And it's just a matter of what sort of sense of humour you have. I find it funny, Absolute - who, by the way, was around from the very first milisecond, so this is not the point at all - finds it funny as well. But you don't. OK. We enjoy it, you don't. OK. Read it the way you want, but you cannot deny humour helps to enjoy the painful wait till SOW is out. And it is painful for us because we are around from the first whisper of the existence of the project SoW. Perhaps you don't feel it would be nicer if we all already had SoW in our shelves, because we feel, as thousands of other people in the Il-2 community, the wait is lasting way too long.

engadin.

[Thunderbolt56]

Well, find a real plane that is possible to fly with the stick in your left hand without dangerous "cross hand gripping" (F16 being the prime example naturally ;))... Being left handed - I had to learn flying with my right hand 20 years ago - or I would be expelled from flying school :( It took a few lessons but today it's impossible for me to use my left hand for flying in any form, virtual or real. I use it for everything else though :)



Well, at 45, I have no delusions about becoming an Air Force pilot any longer (though I had a Congressional appointment and an academic scholarship to the Air Force Academy). At the time I was over 85% ambidextrous and could throw and write with both hands and kick with both feet. I played golf right handed AND left-handed and bowled with both hands. Then I was in an auto accident that severed my right arm just above the elbow. So I fly left-handed now.

You still think I should try to do it right-handed "because that's what they do in real life"?

I swear, I've had this conversation so many times, and as a forced southpaw for the last 26 years (and an expert at conforming), I take offense when other people, either directly or passively, attempt to force it on me again under the mask of ignorance. It's not too much separated from someone who has quit smoking and becomes the poster child for anti-smoking to toot their own horn.

I'm left-handed...and I smoke...mkay?

where's brando when I need him...;)

I am a pilot in real life. I just don't fly modern jet fighters. But the point is, this is a game that attempts to simulate flight in some form or another. To get the most enjoyment from it as I can, it requires me to use specially-made controllers. Luckily the only individual out there with the desire and werewithall to do it uses CH.

[robtek]

Yes, FFB adds immensely to the immersion; yes, that project looks great; BUT if the forces are coming close to reality every guy with a regular stick will outturn you in a dogfight.
Imagine that you are sweating from fighting the stick in a turning fight and youve reached finally the position to shoot... only to find your aim spoiled by the stall buffing of your stick.
As i said: the immersion would be great but the advantage goes to the opponent with the regular stick.

[Viking]

Well what it boils down to is whether you are a simmer or a gamer.
The gamer will chose the setting that will enable him (or her) to make the most kill-points and the simmer will chose the setting that will simulates, as close as is possible by hard- and software, the real life experience, be it negative or positive to the scores.

[mazex]

Well, at 45, I have no delusions about becoming an Air Force pilot any longer (though I had a Congressional appointment and an academic scholarship to the Air Force Academy). At the time I was over 85% ambidextrous and could throw and write with both hands and kick with both feet. I played golf right handed AND left-handed and bowled with both hands. Then I was in an auto accident that severed my right arm just above the elbow. So I fly left-handed now.

You still think I should try to do it right-handed "because that's what they do in real life"?

I swear, I've had this conversation so many times, and as a forced southpaw for the last 26 years (and an expert at conforming), I take offense when other people, either directly or passively, attempt to force it on me again under the mask of ignorance. It's not too much separated from someone who has quit smoking and becomes the poster child for anti-smoking to toot their own horn.

I'm left-handed...and I smoke...mkay?

where's brando when I need him...;)

I am a pilot in real life. I just don't fly modern jet fighters. But the point is, this is a game that attempts to simulate flight in some form or another. To get the most enjoyment from it as I can, it requires me to use specially-made controllers. Luckily the only individual out there with the desire and werewithall to do it uses CH.

Sorry if I offended you - I was trying to make a joke in the "full real or nothing" style but it was not that successful obviously... Besides it was an interesting discovery for me at 18 years to realize that almost all single seat planes are simply built for right handed people... It's rather obvious if you think of it - but I hadn't done that before that. I had flown computer simulators for quite some years then so I was very used to "flying" with my left hand...

[AA_Absolute]

Why does he have issues with FFB? It works fine in IL2.

Sorry if you dont like my little joke "two weeks".

Over SOW FFB, after google search

"Question over SOW:
I would like to ask if we can expect better Force Feedback support in SoW? It would be great to have better immersion of flying.
Oleg answer:
Really any real pilot would say you that what called FF on Joystick has nothing common with real situation.... Really they woukld say you that without that FF would be more correct comparing to real life... I don't know what we will have with FF... But probably this item will be open in source code for third party development."

I read Oleg words after first news over il2 demo, and Oleg says (as up answer) FFB isn`t close to real... more one times, i know more examples but try find yourself.

I dont say actual FFB is near real or not, real pilots could say it. Afaik FFB systems in profesional devices add "taste" to operate heavy machines, if this technology could aply to SOW and add more "taste" in fly all happy, if not no problem.

S! and sorry for uglish.

[Thunderbolt56]

Sorry if I offended you...


Nah, I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh myself.

I come from a long pedigree of combat pilots (bombers and fighters). My Grandfather, Great Uncle, Father and step Father (WWII, Korea and Vietnam). I've heard so many times about "in real life, southpaw's conform or wash out" from true pilots and all the wannabes on game/sim forums that my knee-jerk reaction is just that (i.e. sometimes not well-thought out).

I fly sims for the vicarious experiences and love of aviation. I do it for fun...that's all. I've had a Cougar and a right-handed Fighterstick (to name a few) and did just fine (relatively speaking). But the fun-factor rose exponentially when I got custom controllers that fit me instead of me fitting them.

Sorry for the shot over the bow mazex.

[brando]

I've heard so many times about "in real life, southpaw's conform or wash out" from true pilots and all the wannabes on game/sim forums that my knee-jerk reaction is just that (i.e. sometimes not well-thought out).

I fly sims for the vicarious experiences and love of aviation. I do it for fun...that's all. I've had a Cougar and a right-handed Fighterstick (to name a few) and did just fine (relatively speaking). But the fun-factor rose exponentially when I got custom controllers that fit me instead of me fitting them.

I kept quiet because I get angered by this assumption that we are all supposed to conform. I spent my early years at an exclusive & expensive preparatory school run by French Catholics.
I was born a 'southpaw', and I can still recall the indignity of having my left hand tied to my chair to force me into the 'correct way' of writing. (Protests were quelled by a sharp slap or two!) Psychological studies have since proved that this kind of coercion is damaging to a person's intellect, but I was under the influence of a group who really believed that left-handedness was a sign of "the Devil's work"!

It's ironic then, that I lost my right arm and found myself back as I started out. Oddly enough, when I recommenced writing, I found my handwriting was bolder, clearer and more legible than it had ever been.

I don't much care if people get a thrill out of being "fully real" in their approach to this game. That's fine - but I object to all this bollocks about using the "correct" hand. To me, this point is utterly pretentious and unworthy.
This is a game. Played on a PC, ffs, and all the Tarmac Ace, hydraulic feedback, simpits and UDP won't make it anything more than that. If the manufacturers of these toy joysticks can't be bothered to make a LH option that's their business. If they use the excuse that it's more "real" then I just laugh at their pretension and give thanks that there is a conversion kit available for CH flight-gear.

>rant over<

;)

Brando

[mazex]

Nah, I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh myself.

I come from a long pedigree of combat pilots (bombers and fighters). My Grandfather, Great Uncle, Father and step Father (WWII, Korea and Vietnam). I've heard so many times about "in real life, southpaw's conform or wash out" from true pilots and all the wannabes on game/sim forums that my knee-jerk reaction is just that (i.e. sometimes not well-thought out).

I fly sims for the vicarious experiences and love of aviation. I do it for fun...that's all. I've had a Cougar and a right-handed Fighterstick (to name a few) and did just fine (relatively speaking). But the fun-factor rose exponentially when I got custom controllers that fit me instead of me fitting them.

Sorry for the shot over the bow mazex.

No problem, we all get a little jumpy when it's approaching 3 month's since we last heard from Oleg. A few lines and some shots of the usual 3D models with blue background that could come from any game and we all get back to normal ;)

/Mazex

[Boandlgramer]

Are there many left-handed people out there ?
Just for interest.

[brando]

Are there many left-handed people out there ?
Just for interest.

Here's a handy statistic for joy-stick manufacturers to think about - :)

"In 2006, researchers at Lafayette College and Johns Hopkins University in a study found that left-handed men are 15 percent richer than right-handed men for those who attended college, and 26 percent richer if they graduated."

B

[Thunderbolt56]

and 26% better-looking. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/Thunderbolt56/takebow.gif