Microsoft flight sim "Aces studio" axed

[Thrud]

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21981

BOB may have less competition now

[JG52Uther]

Or go the same way!

[PE_Tigar]

MSFS has never been a competition for SoW:BoB, horses for courses. It will be a sad day when M$ axes the FS completely, if it happens. I guess FSX didn't yield the "projected 20% growth of copies sold" or smt like that, or it may have sold "just" 700,000 copies instead over a million for FS2004. Beancounters don't see the bigger picture, and that sucks. I'm not a big fan of FS either, let's just say that "as real as it gets" is a huuuge overstatement. Actually, I think that that is what killed them, if it was as real as it gets they could've attracted hundreds of thousands of real pilots to it as well as the PC wannabes. As it is, it's only wannabes that fly it, real pilots prefer Sturmovik :D.

[Tree_UK]

No talk of things being axed here, we will have the SOW website up soon....... its only a month behind schedule. Maybe we could have some update pics of the website against a nice light blue background. :-)

[nearmiss]

Interesting

I remember how everyone loved the old MSFT CFS2 and the following was huge.

IL2 had no acceptance equal to the CFS2, and all the interest was in CFS2.

MSFT kept dragging their feet and people began to gravitate towards IL2, principally because Oleg kept improving it with FB,etc.

Then MSFT hired some bimbo dev named hatfield. That dude was put in charge of CFS development. Instead of improving the CFS2 he rebuilt it, and what a fiasco. The IL2 had better graphics then and still does than the CFS3 and MSFT pored a hunk of money into developing CFS3.

So it doesn't surprise me MSFT would drop the entire FS series. Afterall, the FSX graphics are supposed to be the top of the line and yet the third party guys are still producing much better graphics.

The real facts about all the layoffs/firings:

Effectively, MSFT is just like all the rest of the American companies dropping their workforce. Do you have any idea how difficult and problematic firing an American worker actually is? I mean it is outrageous difficult firing anyone anymore.
Minorities(racial,religious,sex,handicapped,etc) are extremely difficult to fire. They all seem to go to an attorney, and the attorneys refer them to EEOC for investigation of their grievances. The lawyers let the EEOC find if there is anything wrong before they expend any effort. If the EEOC finds a viable issue in their investigation the employment lawyer takes the employer to court.

It's not just about minorities, it's about any employee that you terminate that isn't happy with termination. You never hear it said but it is a a fact, "The American worker has too many rights and bad attitutude towards his/her employer and his job". It's always about them and us, the suits and the overalls, etc.

So, like all the rest of the companies MSFT is just gleaning out the weeds like everyone else. They are getting rid of anyone they view as difficult or otherwise just not what they want. They can use the economy as an excuse and no one is the wiser. It is very easy to explain to an employee you are firing, that economic conditions are just so bad it has to be done.

[brando]

IL2 had no acceptance equal to the CFS2, and all the interest was in CFS2.

I don't totally agree with this. Yes, CFS did have a large following but IL2 also built up a fair-sized following very quickly after its release. The CFS crowd didn't start to move across until two or three years after the launch of IL2, but there were already a lot of people enjoying it. Hyperlobby's connection ability had to be enlarged a couple of times in order to fit in the regular 1000+ of on-line users. and others were using ASE or Direct IP to play regularly. Then add in the 1000s who prefer to play off-line and you start to get the picture of a very popular combat flight sim.

B

[nearmiss]

I don't totally agree with this. Yes, CFS did have a large following but IL2 also built up a fair-sized following very quickly after its release. The CFS crowd didn't start to move across until two or three years after the launch of IL2, but there were already a lot of people enjoying it. Hyperlobby's connection ability had to be enlarged a couple of times in order to fit in the regular 1000+ of on-line users. and others were using ASE or Direct IP to play regularly. Then add in the 1000s who prefer to play off-line and you start to get the picture of a very popular combat flight sim.

B

I just recall being on Netwings.org, Sim-outhouse.com, simhq.com and there were thousands of posters using CFS2. I recall those sites all had an Il2 forums and you'd see a couple postings per day at most.

The Sim-Outhouse is still going, and believe it or not there is alot more traffic there now on CFS2 board than there is here.

The CFS2 is still so popular there are devs releasing add-ons continuously.

The CFS2 today is lagging in the graphics area, the AI pretty well suck, there is no online game anymore... yet there is huge offline player interest.

If MSFT had just updated the CFS2 instead of trying to reinvent the thing it would be the front runner today. The mission builder for CFS2 is awesome allowing users to build very immersive and exciting mission action.

Oleg, addressed the ONLINE game with the best aircraft and prevented all the cheats of the ZONE. The IL2 ONLINE gaming is still very viable.

The ONLINE game has always been the one strength of IL2. The IL2 mission builder is adequate for Online play, but lousy for Offline play.

I'm not knocking IL2 by any means, and lets face it MSFT is run by too much monkey business to let the right hand know what the left is doing.

Do I long for an improved CFS2?

NOPE, I'm looking forward to the BOB SOW and my expectations are high Oleg will produce the best CFS ever... and like all our addons, more than expected.

[skarden]

. As it is, it's only wannabes that fly it, real pilots prefer Sturmovik :D.


What a complete load of horse S&#t!
You clearly dont know what your talking about,Google "PMDG MD-11" or "PMDG 747-400" and you'll see how wrong you are.

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

I'm really disturbed by these news i love FSX and hate the prospective of
the discontinuation ... i will never forget the excitment when i landed on a sglacier in a Maule M-7-260C ski plane at 7,200 feet MSL !! Excellent stuff!

[Chivas]

I think most of the CFS2 on-line crowd were early adopters of the IL-2 series as we found out about the sim thru Teamspeak. Most of the off-line crowd never heard of IL-2 and if they did, who wants to fly on the Russian front anyway. Word of mouth in the on-line community told stories of the smooth immersive on-line experience that gave them insentive to give it a try. Not mention the unpopularity of CFS3.

[PE_Tigar]

What a complete load of horse S&#t!
You clearly dont know what your talking about,Google "PMDG MD-11" or "PMDG 747-400" and you'll see how wrong you are.

I've had PPL for five years, this year I'm finishing CPL+MEP+IR, finishing ATPL theory course on Sunday. I'm pretty sure what I'm talking about. For procedures and IFR flying, sure some of the add-ons have pretty good button-pushing stuff. For flight model, Sturmovik any day.

[ElAurens]

This really is not a good thing. On several levels.

First off, a whole lot of folks just lost their jobs. Nearmiss's drivel aside, this is never a good thing. Microsoft didn't just do some pruning of "bad" employees, they axed an entire studio, and all their contract workers. Loosing one's job is not pretty, and my sympathies go out to those people.

Secondly, the flight sim genre is simply too small to be able to absorb the loss of a true giant of the type like MS is. Like it or not MSFS is the largest selling, longest running flight sim product ever. It's easy to say YAY!!!! Oleg now has no competition!!! However, the reality is that any other publisher out there that is involved with or is contemplating involvement in the flight simulation genre is now going to take a second look at continuing, because if the largest seller is calling it quits, well, if I have to explain it you don't have a grasp of the economy.

This is a dire development, for all of us.

[skarden]

I've had PPL for five years, this year I'm finishing CPL+MEP+IR, finishing ATPL theory course on Sunday. I'm pretty sure what I'm talking about. For procedures and IFR flying, sure some of the add-ons have pretty good button-pushing stuff. For flight model, Sturmovik any day.


Have you tried or looked at those add ons though?? They ARE used by real pilots.oh and by the way,not all of us can afford to get our PPL's or more importantly pay to get the hours up.I guess where just poor wanna be's eh?

here i"ll save you the trouble

http://www.precisionmanuals.com/priv/pages/prod/fsx/744x.html

http://www.precisionmanuals.com/priv/pages/prod/fsx/md11.html

sorry for the hijack,that elitest crap gets me everytime.


Edit:I just read that MS made 16billion last year,clearly not enough :/

[SlipBall]

I think in time as the economy improve's worldwide, maybe 5 years out or so. That once again MS flight will rise up


Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer said the company and the technology sector are in the “midst of a once in a lifetime set of economic conditions.” He said the economy is resetting to a lower level of business and consumer spending.
“Neither the consumer nor the business side of the technology industry is immune to these economic conditions,” said Ballmer, noting that IT spending represents 50% of U.S. business spending.
Ballmer said that while current economic conditions may slow the adoption of some technology in the market, he said ultimately it will be a pause. “In the long run the pause the economy is imposing on our industry will certainly be just that. There will be renewed strong growth in the technology industry overall and certainly at Microsoft.”

[Baron]

The money to be made isnt big enough for MS to care one way or the other when cuts has to be made.
( Has to is a relativ term here ).

Where they losing money on flights sim market? Proppably not, they just dont earn enough on it to be worth while.



Oleg and team however makes enough money allowing them to do pretty much what ever they want with SoW. (His words, not mine)

[dflion]

Over the years I have collected all the MS Flight Simulators. I have gradually watched the MS Flight Simulator grow more complex.
Sadly I thought FSX was the worst attempt of them all. It just about completely 'cut-off' third party aeroplane developers, making it very hard for people to contribute (which is the real secret of any flight simulation). Eventually Microsoft relaxed some third party development rules, then it was too late. People were then divided between MSFS 2004 (where third party aeroplane development had reached its height) and the later FSX - result dwindling sales and sadly ending in a lot of very good people losing their jobs.

I do blame the Microsoft Marketing people for a lot of the problems. Not really looking at the the success of MSFS 2004 and then building on a better compatible FSX.
As IL2 dedicated fans we all know the pros and cons of CFS2 and CFS3 - again Microsoft Marketing had a hand it making both these simulations gradually die.(Oleg has helped as well!)

Lets hope that Oleg is taking the demise of Microsoft Simulation in the market place very seriously, especially closely looking at why they failed. Microsoft have made a lot of mistakes - poor attention to detail, poor compatability between versions, upgrading graphics with no compatibility between versions, not getting their dedicated community more involved, cancelling production of their excellent Sidewinder sticks etc. etc.

I am sure the $16Bn profit posted by Microsoft last year is a a great consolation for the people that lost their jobs.

DFLion

[Codex]

I'm a "the glass is half full" guy, I see this a perfect opportunity for these people to start their own sim / game. Just remember MS and the other fat cats like Sony/PS3 need huge operating capital just the survive from day to day. It makes sense to cut minor revenue streams that cost more to keep than the $$$ they bring in. On the other hand this leaves the door open for smaller Indie developers to pick up the niche market. Its a perfect opertunity as thier financial requirements are much much smaller, heck there are some that operate at no profit all and do it just for the fun of it, but later get picked by a devlopement studio, Splash Damange is one that springs to mind.

The simple truth is that big companies like MS are going back to core businesses, ACES was a "nice to have" studio, but when times are tough and money is short cuts like these will happen, its simple economics. But there are advantages to being / staying small.

[CrazySchmidt]

WOW!! What a great shame. Not a great fan of the MS flight sim series myself, but that's a shame from a flight sim enthusiasts perspective for sure.

CS. :)

[mazex]

This is really sad for the flight sim community - even though I never liked Flight Simulator (played it since version 2.0)...

Let´s hope Oleg does not analyze this to much - delaying SoW:BoB another couple of years to add Cessnas modeled down to every friggin bolt...

/Mazex

[Boandlgramer]

Servus

I just want to comment a poster words about "what real Pilots fly" .
Wasn´t a fan of "Out of the box planes " from MS.
However.
A while ago a Pilot ( living just a few meters away from my house)of the Bf 108 own by the Messerschmitt Foundation was sitting in my Flightsimulations Cockpit. Running FS 2004 , also known as FS9.
He was pretty impressed about the FM of Shockwave´s FW 190.
So I think , that´s not bad to know, even for an "wannabe Pilot" like me. ..........

[JoeA]

I don't get why people can't see that MSFS civilian flight sim is a different thing than Il-2 and the future SOW. This is not good for anyone in flightsim.

[flyingbullseye]

I don't get why people can't see that MSFS civilian flight sim is a different thing than Il-2 and the future SOW. This is not good for anyone in flightsim.

I think that some of that could be people's distaste toward M$ more than toward the sim itself. I enjoy FS9 it immensely flying vintage multi-engine a/c in golden wings. Fighters gets a little boring which is where 1946 comes in but to each their own as well.

Flyingbullseye

[He111]

Doesn't matter if we're in boom or bust, quality will always win through! and that's IL2! SOW should hopefully be better.

I can only talk for myself but I never buy games unless they get good reviews -ie Totalwar series, IL2 etc. A recession won't stop me buying a quality flight sim - it's a cheap way to kill a few hours! :)

As to MSFS being axed, I never liked it but then I'm a WWII airwar nut. (a aging breed!). younger generations like car chases and criminal activity (very sad).

As to job loses, the IT industry in Australia has been outsourced since the late 90s, with jobs going to india and china. nothing new there. Now we have a severe recession, will the IT industry get any worse? probably yes but hopefully not another collapse. The problem is, the world is full of nerds - skilled IT people, alot in 3rd world countries that can easily undercut rates in 1st world nations. This was always going to put pressure on jobs. It would be good if wages were reduced rather than jobs lost but if Flight Sims are consistantly losing sales then a clean cut might be for the best?

BUT this is an opportunity for these unemployed skilled nerds to show their stuff and develop their own software, hopefully another IL2? or quicker-released SOW? :\

He111.

[JoeA]

As to MSFS being axed, I never liked it but then I'm a WWII airwar nut. (a aging breed!). younger generations like car chases and criminal activity (very sad).



Ummm MSFS has nothing to do with young seeking thrills. You can fly hundreds of quality GA aircraft in dynamic weather over current scenery, or fly the latest high tech airliners with all the bells and whistles. That said, you are right it is all about MS catering to the young crowd and the mindless shooters.

[Mysticpuma]

I bought FSX, as I wanted to see what it really had going for it, and was impressed initially with the amount of RW detail it had.

My system, although very powerful, was only able to run it at between 15 and 32 FPS though, and that was after much internet trawling to find settings that others had to use to get playable fram-rates, so ultimately I sold it on as I wasn't having an enjoyable time with it.

Now, something sprung to mind, which I haven't seen discussed here though, is a visit I made to see Oleg in Birmingham a couple-of-years-ago, when he attended a Flight Sim show.

Turning up at the venue, I had to search really hard to find his stall, tucked away in a dark area to the left of a hall and not-at-all easy to find.

The rest of the hall was virtully crammed full of PC's running the newly launched FSX and other retailers selling additions for the game, with landscape packs, airport packs, hardware, etc,etc.

Why do I mention this? Well, I cannot believe that a Flight Sim show organiser would be willing to hold a show if the only new software was Olegs BoB (as Rose-tinted as our spectacles may be), and maybe the closure of the FSX franchise, resultant in lack of advertising and promotion, will or at least could, severly affect any Flight Sim shows of the future.
This means that the enthusiast will no-longer be able to se hands-on presentations of these sims, it will al bee report based over the web, and the chance to meet Oleg and other developers, well frankly looks as though it will be a closed chapter from no-on?

[nearmiss]

I'm wondering if it really is going to make that much difference, no MSFT FS.

MSFT started with Halo and now the Halo team is a totally separate company doing their own thing.

I would think all those guys with MSFT might be able to put their own company together, because getting a job developing a flight simulator is probably out of the question.

It wouldn't surprise me to see something really good come out of this.

The CFS2 enthusiasts are probably licking their chops, because I've read postings of conversations with members of the MSFT FS team. As I recall, it seemed the MSFT FS team members knew how to put together a top notch CFS as well as a FS. THey were retricted from doing a CFS, because the impetus within MSFT was the FS.

The cup is half full

[tagTaken2]

*remembers CFS3*

Half full of vomit...

[un_loon]

Could be that MSFS is folding due to overwhelming competition and having vanquished the evil empire Oleg will post BOB:SOW in open beta prior to an April release date?

[ElAurens]

Nope.

The MSFS series is the largest selling, longest running series in the history of computer flight simulation. Remember we are talking the Micorsoft Flight Simulator series here, not the Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator series.

Oleg's success has had nothing to do with this. Oleg's IL2 series is not competition for FS 2009, FSX, etc. Completely different animals.

This is simply a matter of size. Microsoft is so large that even the largest seller in our tiny genre is chump change to them.

[Avimimus]

I remember how everyone loved the old MSFT CFS2 and the following was huge.

IL2 had no acceptance equal to the CFS2, and all the interest was in CFS2.


Hey, some of us were Oleggists from way before it was released in 1999-2000 and had a minimal interest in CFS2.

I actually enjoyed the first CFS but the sequel didn't seem to offer much in way of improvements (at least in the areas I cared most about) and I'm relevantly ignorant of the pacific theatre compared to say, North Africa, or the Night Bombing campaigns.

[SlipBall]

Nope.

The MSFS series is the largest selling, longest running series in the history of computer flight simulation. Remember we are talking the Micorsoft Flight Simulator series here, not the Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator series.

Oleg's success has had nothing to do with this. Oleg's IL2 series is not competition for FS 2009, FSX, etc. Completely different animals.

This is simply a matter of size. Microsoft is so large that even the largest seller in our tiny genre is chump change to them.



That's why I believe Oleg should incorporate more complexity's for the engine, and fuel systems. People who bought MS were looking for realism. They could have that with the SU-26. That is, if presented with by the book managment of aircraft systems, by 1C

[Avimimus]

By the way, as ED is off doing their thing (jets primarily and limited activations) it seems that Oleg's only foreseeable competition in the near future comes potentially from NEOQB/Grennadich,,,

[ElAurens]

Well I hope Oleg does not spend much time on boring jet cattle cars, as it will dilute the core of why I'm here. WW2 aviation.

Sorry but I found the MS flight procedure simulators about as fun as watching paint dry.

Modern civillian aircraft have little that captivates me, for me they are about as exciting as a city bus.

[Antoninus]

MSFS has much more to offer than just flying cattle cars and Cessnas. Although airliner pilot's are probably the majority there is a significant number of people that like to fly WWII, Golden Age era aircraft, gliders or bush planes. Just look at all the add on aircraft available for MSFS. None of them need overly complex modern systems beyond what was available in the forties. Oleg's damage and flight model combined with the level of realism found in the latest generation of piston engine aircraft for FSX (http://www.a2asimulations.com) would be a very attractive combination. Especially flying gliders in SOW with it's announced dynamic weather system with realistically moving air masses should be a superior experience compared to FSX.