Stuttering still over 3 years! Any help?

[AstroCat]

I'll try and make this quick.

When IL2 came out it stuttered and we tried everything but nothing worked so I gave up on the game.
I came back in 2005 and tried everything on multiple systems but with HardwareShaders=1 enabled it always stuttered so I put the game aside.
Now, in 2009 I've come back and it still stutters with HardwareShaders=1 enabled!

All these different systems and configurations. Hundreds of tweaks of every kind, countless hours spent but still it doesn't work.

IL2 is the best WW2 sim out there, I really enjoy the game but the terrible stuttering when using water 1/2/3/4 just kills it for me. The stuttering is worse when the land meets the water. It is the same as it has always been on every system I've ever tried. If I turn off HardwareShaders=1 it doesn't stutter and if I turn it on it does. Oh, you can put water at 0, and it does help some and even water=1 is ok, but still stutters some, but really the goal has always been water=3/4 using the shaders.

Is there any help for this, some unknown trick I've missed through all these years? Or have people just done the acceptance dance that no matter what water 2, 3 and 4 stutter and that is just the way it is?

Thank you for the help! I just wanted to try one more time to fix this issue.

[DD_crash]

What version are you running?

[AstroCat]

I have installs of both 409b1m and 408m but I've been mainly working with 409b1m.

[Bearcat]

Current System specs............

[AstroCat]

Sure ...

Here is my DXDIAG (http://www.astrocat.net/images/temp/DxDiag_XP.txt).

Basic current system:
CPU: E8400
MB: GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6 DDR2
Mem: G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 (Running 800 1:1 4-4-4-12 2.1v)
PS: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX
DVDR: SAMSUNG DVD±R SH-S203B
HD1: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB
HD2: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB
OP: SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
Case: P182
HS: Thermalright Ultra-120
Fans: 5 x 120mm S-Flex Scythe
TC: Arctic Silver 5
Vid: EVGA 9800GX2
Sound: X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro Series
OS: Vista64/XP

The real culprit is HardwareShaders=1 because even at Water=0 or 1 I get some stutters, although better than 2-4. Shaders off is the only way I can get rid of them completely.

Thanks for the help!

[KG26_Alpha]

Try these conf ini settings, don't forget to back up your original:

[Render_OpenGL]
TexQual=3
TexMipFilter=3
TexCompress=0
TexFlags.UseDither=1
TexFlags.UseAlpha=0
TexFlags.UseIndex=0
TexFlags.PolygonStipple=1
TexFlags.UseClampedSprites=0
TexFlags.DrawLandByTriangles=1
TexFlags.UseVertexArrays=1
TexFlags.DisableAPIExtensions=0
TexFlags.ARBMultitextureExt=1
TexFlags.TexEnvCombineExt=1
TexFlags.SecondaryColorExt=1
TexFlags.VertexArrayExt=1
TexFlags.ClipHintExt=0
TexFlags.UsePaletteExt=0
TexFlags.TexAnisotropicExt=1
TexFlags.TexCompressARBExt=1

TexFlags.TexEnvCombine4NV=1
TexFlags.TexEnvCombineDot3=1
TexFlags.DepthClampNV=1
TexFlags.SeparateSpecular=1
TexFlags.TextureShaderNV=1

HardwareShaders=1

Shadows=2
Specular=2
SpecularLight=2
DiffuseLight=2
DynamicalLights=1
MeshDetail=2
VisibilityDistance=3

Sky=2
Forest=2
LandShading=3
LandDetails=2

LandGeom=2
TexLarge=1
TexLandQual=3
TexLandLarge=1

VideoSetupId=3
Water=2
Effects=1
ForceShaders1x=0

PolygonOffsetFactor=-0.15
PolygonOffsetUnits=-3.0

[AstroCat]

Yeah, those settings are what I am already trying. I've tried tweaking everything I can think of and still always the same stutters with HardwareShaders=1, if I make that 0, it runs with no stutters.

[AstroCat]

What is the setup of anyone who is able to run the game with no stutters? Just make a Crimea quick battle and fly around the coast and I'll get these periodic little "ticks". The higher the water # the more consistent they appear.

I know the game will hitch once and a while like all games do, texture buffering and such things but this is definitly not just that because it is just related to the water and the shaders.

It would be just awesome to find a real fix! :)

[Codex]

I'm not familiar with nVidia cards but there is a common issue with multi GPU cards (both ATI and nVidia) causing stutters in IL-2. I suspect this may be the culprit, try lowering the AA down to 2x in the video card drivers, this fixed the problem on my 4870x2.

A more general stutter issue I had relates to drives. It is also recomended on Gigabyte boards to use the Intel ACHI drive controller rather than the Gigabyte one. I'm assuming all your drives are SATA so connect them to the Yellow sockets, make sure you have ACHI enabled in the BIOS and have the Intel INF drivers installed v8.3.1.1011.

Hope this helps.

[AstroCat]

I even turned everything down and off in my driver settings. No Aniso, No AA, Only High Quality, No triple buffer, no vsync etc... As well as setting to just 1 GPU and it still stutters. Only shaders off will make them go away.

Yeah I just defraged and both drivers are SATA, and ACHI is enabled. I would think this kind of pause would not be so effected by Shaders on or off.

Can you really fly around in perfect mode near a shoreline and get no stutters or little 150ms ticks at all? That is just amazing. I've tried the game on so many different systems and configurations and I've never been able to get rid of it.

[AstroCat]

Another quick test is to run the F4UTT track and watch in the first few scenes as the planes fly over the trees. I always get a stutter here if I have Shaders on.

[IceFire]

Core 2 Duo E6850
2GB of RAM
GeForce 8600GTS

My video card isn't quite up to snuff but aside from a couple of drops in framerate I can fly around all of the Crimea map with no stutters at all.

Make sure you do three things:

1) In the nVidia control panel make sure that your IL-2 profile is setup to have "Threaded Optimization Off".

2) Also in the control panel for your IL-2 profile turn VSync off.

3) Get the latest DLL's from this thread: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2472&highlight=DLLs There are several variations so I'm not 100% sure on which you should use but be sure to ALWAYS BACKUP YOUR CURRENT FILES before you install the new ones.

I had microstutter problems on account of the nVidia card and the dual core system. Aside from that...very few performance issues.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Ahhh I bet I know your problem... 9800X2... says a lot.

Make sure you're NOT using Alternate Frame Rendering for IL2 it should be Single Frame Rendering.

I use nHancer 2.4.2 to force this setting for SLI. Your card is basically running in SLI even though its a single card.

[AstroCat]

Ahhh I bet I know your problem... 9800X2... says a lot.

Make sure you're NOT using Alternate Frame Rendering for IL2 it should be Single Frame Rendering.

I use nHancer 2.4.2 to force this setting for SLI. Your card is basically running in SLI even though its a single card.

Yeah I've tried both SFR and Single GPU both have the same effect. I can make it worse with AFR though.

[KG26_Alpha]

I have the same processor and graphics card as Astrocat but no stutters.

As other posters have suggested get the March dll (this was the last release).

http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=82467

V sync on works best for me and this card with single frame rendering.

Also make sure you have just a single core set to run IL2.

Goes without saying but I hope your PSU is up to running these cards I have 60 amps on the 12v rails !!!!

[nearmiss]

I have built over 6 completely new systems during the past years using the IL2 1.0 through current 1946, patched 4.09

No stutters

Think about it. If you have built and used several systems and all of them have done the same or similar things. Take a hard look at your hardware, and peripherals. Especially any hardware item/s that you have used on all those systems.

Soundcards and acceleration were a big bugaboo for a long time. I haven't used a standalone sound card in the past three systems I've built.
I use the mobo onboard sound, and haven't had problems.

We have all had some types of issues with each system upgrade, and often IL2 addons and patches. We work through the issues and move on.

I've had powersupply issues as well. I moved up to 750Watt last system upgrade, 7 onboard fans, 3 additional fans on the mobo, 1 fan on the Videocard 8800 GTX OC

What I'm saying.. you may think you've done everything, but you'd be surprised sometimes just how far you have to go with hardware upgrades. Changing one thing can bum the works.

You can still get good tech help on Ubiforums Community help http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/49310655

good luck

[AstroCat]

Yeah, I feel I've covered all angles on the testing. My current system is just so solid in every other way. And, the systems have varied so much over the past 5 or so years that it really isn't possible to think of one thing that would link them all together.

So you never get the little pauses even with water=4!? That must be pretty awesome! I have never been able to play this game like that, wish I could though. I definitely have tried really hard to get it to work, that is for sure.

PS: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX
Sound: X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro Series

And, I've been using the March dlls.

[KG26_Alpha]

Is it possible you can post a Fraps capture of what you are seeing ?

[=815=TooCooL]

I am a 60fps maniac. (considering Vsync limit)
I call it stutter when the game do not maintain 60fps and goes to 50 fps or little micropause when turning my view with TIR4.
I think the writer is a guy like me. :confused:


With E8500@3.16 , 4G ram, 8800GT, and SLC SSD setup,
FINALLY it's stutter free & 60-fps game for me even with perfect & large mirrors on.
It really is until Water=2 setting.

But STUTTER STILL EXISTS especially in Water=3 or Water=4 for me when slewing view with TIR. I don't know why it happens and thought I'd need GTX280 but I like water=2 so it should be no problem for me anymore.
It goes down to 40fps when I look down over sparkling water( in 3 or 4) and it seems like my VGA is bottleneck.

One last remaining fix wish is WARPING CLOUDS REFLECTION OVER WATER in perfect mode. Other than that, IL-2 sits in fps nirvana.

We too have little pauses with water=3 or 4
It seems Water=3 and 4 is still FOR FUTURE VGA.By the way, don't use forceware 181.20 which is new, it was so much terrible in IL-2. Stutter in every scene.
I recommned 180.48.

[KG26_Alpha]

I too am locked solid on 60 fps due to vsync and have no stutters.

Warping clouds reflection ?

Or do you mean a shuffle back and forth ?

I see the clouds reflection in a rocking motion sometimes..... but warping ??

[=815=TooCooL]

cloud reflections on perfect water don't move smooth like clouds themselves.
It moves like following walking robot, you know.
You can see it easily at mid to high alt.

[AstroCat]

I am a 60fps maniac. (considering Vsync limit)
I call it stutter when the game do not maintain 60fps and goes to 50 fps or little micropause when turning my view with TIR4.
I think the writer is a guy like me. :confused:


With E8500@3.16 , 4G ram, 8800GT, and SLC SSD setup,
FINALLY it's stutter free & 60-fps game for me even with perfect & large mirrors on.
It really is until Water=2 setting.

But STUTTER STILL EXISTS especially in Water=3 or Water=4 for me when slewing view with TIR. I don't know why it happens and thought I'd need GTX280 but I like water=2 so it should be no problem for me anymore.
It goes down to 40fps when I look down over sparkling water( in 3 or 4) and it seems like my VGA is bottleneck.

One last remaining fix wish is WARPING CLOUDS REFLECTION OVER WATER in perfect mode. Other than that, IL-2 sits in fps nirvana.

We too have little pauses with water=3 or 4
It seems Water=3 and 4 is still FOR FUTURE VGA.By the way, don't use forceware 181.20 which is new, it was so much terrible in IL-2. Stutter in every scene.
I recommned 180.48.

I will go back and try the 180.48's. I was using the 181.20s for my current testing which may have made the situation worse.

I tried the the new beta 185.20's but I was getting some odd screen artifacts with vsync off, but I have to work with them some more after work. Although with vsync off on 185.20's the stutter was reduced a lot.

More testing is needed, I'll go back and try the 180.48's as well.

[AstroCat]

Ok, did a little more experimentation over lunch. :)

I tried several of the driver sets out there and they didn't really make a gigantic difference but I did find something that did!

I had been using the individual driver profile settings to set either SFR or single GPU.

This time I went to the harder driver switch of Single GPU or on the 174 drivers dual display mode. This effectively really does turn SLI off. Currently I am testing this with the 174.xx driver set. (174.74 I believe) ( the 174s I hear were the last to really take the 9800gx2 in to account)

Well, this did make a difference, even with Vsync on (since I use Track IR) the stuttering went way down and I think may be even gone. I don't want to get too excited because I didn't have a lot of time to test it. But after work I'll give it a real run through. So I believe this leaves me with 1 8800GTS for IL2 which seems to keep a good 60fps so far.

Now the stutters I've had in the past have probably been for a variety if reasons and that is the hard part. It might not have always been the same cause but always the same symptoms, very frustrating.

I was considering getting a new card soon, either the 285 or 295. I think this whole thing has soured me on the SLI on 1 card variety. Perhaps the 285 is in my future.

[KG26_Alpha]

I found no difference in IL2 1946 using a 9800x2 or a 9800gtx+, I stuck with the 9800gtx+

Other games had a slight improvement.

But neither card had stutters, lets hope you've fixed it.

[AstroCat]

I found no difference in IL2 1946 using a 9800x2 or a 9800gtx+, I stuck with the 9800gtx+

Other games had a slight improvement.

But neither card had stutters, lets hope you've fixed it.

Can you please check 1 mission for me?

Go to Single Missions of the USN and pick the first stock one on the list, starts with a "T" (Tulagi ?) can not remember the exact name. You start in flight. I use this one as a test for stutters. Fly around for like 20-30 sec over the coast line turning and banking. Do you not get any hitches or stutters at all? Totally smooth? Before I disabled the 2nd GPU I always got stutters here with harwareshaders=1. If I turn that off it would run fine with both GPUs active.

Oh and another quick question. Does enabled Perfect mode (harwareshaders=1) have any effect other than the water?

Thanks for the help!

[SPUDLEY1977]

Our systems are similiar.

4.09 doesn't seem to run quite as smooth as the others - particularly in the heavily treed mountains and over the cities. You micht search my posts as I have proveided some detailed analysis. I don't like the perfect cloud settings so I don't use it.

1. If you are using LCD absolutely leave VSYNC on as LCD can only present in effect 60 FPS mas. Due to implementation higher FPS and vsync off might not appear as artifact free and smooth as with vsync on.

2. I allow my E8400 to multithread with both cores as setting processor affiity for IL-2 to a single core does not seem to improve anything.

3. I have tested all but the most recent unified drivers and I stick with 174.74 as it seems to be the best/smoothest/least buggy for me.

4. In NVIDIA GPU controls I have AA and Ansi all maxed out.

5. Try with one card, maximize all settings to see if it is smoother, perhaps SLI has issues.

6. I sense Senior FLYBY is lurking and will show up soon! :)


PEACEs

[AstroCat]

Ok I am using the 174.74 drivers. And I have it set to Multi-display mode, basically non-SLI.

Settings are good, 4xAA, 16x Ansio, HQ, vsync and TB on. Frames are staying near 60 and everything maxed in the .ini except Water at 2.

If I play like this it is TONS better.

The 2 keys for me for sure were:

1. NON SLI
2. Water not at 3

Although Water 3 is much better than it was before with SLI on, Water 2 still looks pretty good as well and makes it even smoother.

As a matter of fact this is the best the game has ever run.

I did notice one more culprit of pauses. The first time it loads any radio chatter up I get a little pause, but after the phrase is loaded in, no more pauses. Any insight in to this one? I've read other people have it but they just end up turning off the chatter, but I kind of like the immersion of it.

[IceFire]

Creative cars seem to cause stutter...onboard audio these days is quite good and I've never had any stutter issues with those. The old onboard audio from a few years ago might still be an issue.

[AstroCat]

Some more flying and testing...

When I come out of time acceleration or time skip it seems to stutter a little bit as well. Perhaps it is reloading some textures or something? It smooths out again quickly but for a second or two sometimes it stutters.

The radio chatter only stutters when it first begins but seems to smooth out over time.

This is one of the most finicky games I've ever encountered!

[AstroCat]

Ok, got a 285 gtx with the latest 181.22 drivers.

It runs tons better and smoother than any drivers with the 9800gx2. So, this is a major improvement!

I am running water=2 and everything else pretty much maxed out. 4x AA 16x Aniso (1680x1050) etc...

I have seen it do a couple super minor pauses at a couple times but these are nowhere near how it was before so it is much more playable now. Although once and a while I can catch a hitch off of the radio chatter that seems to smooth out as they happen. Must be a buffering system...

Anyway that is where I am at. :)

[=815=TooCooL]

Ok, got a 285 gtx with the latest 181.22 drivers.

It runs tons better and smoother than any drivers with the 9800gx2. So, this is a major improvement!

I am running water=2 and everything else pretty much maxed out. 4x AA 16x Aniso (1680x1050) etc...

I have seen it do a couple super minor pauses at a couple times but these are nowhere near how it was before so it is much more playable now. Although once and a while I can catch a hitch off of the radio chatter that seems to smooth out as they happen. Must be a buffering system...

Anyway that is where I am at. :)
Glad to hear that.
SLI or dual GPU is not friendly with IL-2.
Oh, I think I forgot to tell you some more things about those hitches.
SLC SSD ;) and SetAffinity=2 in conf.ini

[SPUDLEY1977]

Glad you are on the mend. Although I have had SLI capable boards for the last 5 years, the concept never really made sence to me (either FPS/playability or $$) and most of my reading analysis led me to that conclusion.

Your Fatality actually has its own sound processor. Many add on sound cards do not. My current sys once used the onboard Realtek AL889 sound and the game ran fine for me. I eventually disables it and installed a Creative X-FI Extreme gamer. Game sound is not significantly but all other audio...tunes, DVD, surround, etc is way better with this add in card. A worthy expenditure for another $85 US.

1. Do you perform Disk Cleanup and multiple Defrags on a regular basis

2. Have you observed your hard drive light during the stutters?

3. Have you set a fixed swapfile to say 3500?

4. Have you ever defragged your swapfile itself?

Never tried out the new 26x series of cards yet.

[AstroCat]

Now that I have the graphics suttuers worked out (wheewh!) How about these radio chatter stutters?

Any fix for these?

Here is my sound setup:

[sound]
SoundUse=1
SoundEngine=1
Speakers=4
Placement=0
SoundFlags.reversestereo=0
RadioFlags.Enabled=1
RadioEngine=2
MusicVolume=5
ObjectVolume=14
MusState.takeoff=1
MusState.inflight=1
MusState.crash=1
MusFlags.play=1
MasterVolume=14
Attenuation=7
SoundMode=3
SamplingRate=2
NumChannels=2
SoundExt.occlusions=0
SoundFlags.hardware=1
SoundFlags.streams=1
SoundFlags.duplex=1
SoundExt.acoustics=0
SoundExt.volumefx=0
SoundFlags.voicemgr=0
SoundFlags.static=1
VoiceVolume=11
Channels=2
SoundExt.extrender=0
SoundFlags.bugscorrect=0
SoundSetupId=8
ActivationLevel=0.02
Preemphasis=0.85
RadioLatency=0.5
AGC=1
PTTMode=1
SoundFlags.UseRadioChatter=1
SoundFlags.AutoActivation=0
RadioFlags.PTTMode=0
RadioFlags.PlayClicks=0
ActLevel=0
MicLevel=0
SoundFlags.forceEAX1=0

Thanks!

[steppie]

Have you try using IL2 1946 Nvidia Tweak

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=65215

[AstroCat]

Yeah I'm using the March 2008 .dlls and I've played around with different Sound section settings but so far still gettuing some stutter at random times with wingman radio chatter.

[=815=TooCooL]

Don't waste your time again cause it's irrelevant with sound setting.
Since game will read radio chatter etc etc from HDD, HDD access delay(or stutter) is inevitable.
As I posted before, buy SLC SSD.
It really diminishes those little delays and so quiet that you never know when game aceess data.
The price of 16GB or 32GB SLC SSD is quite acceptable nowadays.
Just don't buy MLC SSD, it's crap.

[AstroCat]

Interesting idea for gaming to get a SSD. Any brand or model recommendations?

[SPUDLEY1977]

Astro,
e8400 + 8800 GT OC 512. I was wondering what deathtrack will do with a 260 216 or 285 vid card.
Can you run it PERFECT + maxed out in nvidia settings:

1.vsync off three times and note the low fps.
2.vsync on, see if it dips below 60, 75 whatever your referesh is set to?

Thanks
( and I thank you in advance for my FLiBYE)

[SPUDLEY1977]

Astro,
No sound stutter here at all.
Try to locate some IL-2 audio and play the audio WITHOUT playing the game, see what your CPU utilization is with just the audio playing. Be sure before you test this that no background proggy's are running, your CPU should be 0. Set task manager to show one graph so that any/all cores doing processing will show as a single total % figure..

[AstroCat]

Astro,
No sound stutter here at all.
Try to locate some IL-2 audio and play the audio WITHOUT playing the game, see what your CPU utilization is with just the audio playing. Be sure before you test this that no background proggy's are running, your CPU should be 0. Set task manager to show one graph so that any/all cores doing processing will show as a single total % figure..

With WMP minimized for playback I get 0-1% CPU usage playing back a VO sound file. Mostly it stays at 0%.

[|ZUTI|]

I'm sorry guys, but could someone explain to me the logic behing setAffinitiy in conf.ini once more? :S Got that written down somewhere but can not find it. 0 uses default core. 1 uses first one, 2 uses second one, 3 uses what? Both? Pretty sure that's not the case but like i said, just can not find my old records.

Thanks.

[=815=TooCooL]

Like C language index 1st core is 0, 2nd core is 1, and so on.

=1 - core 0
=2 - core 1
=3 - core 0+1
=4 - core 2
=5 - core 0+2
=6 - core 1+2
=7 - core 0+1+2

if commented out by ; -> use all cores

IL-2 can run in multi-core but it do not benefit single fps gain from it.
Assign it to 2nd core or else and make OS thingys run at 1st core, just to secure some more smoothness.
So I use it with ProcessAffinityMask=2

To AstroCat, I use MTRON SLC SSD 32GB which has good controller tech in it.
I don't know they sell it in your country.

Funny thing is DCS Black Shark get fps increase about 50% to 70% by using both cores. It's great. :)
IL-2 never benefit like other ordinary games, so don't take too much concern about it.

[KG26_Alpha]

Hi

To turn off the in game radio system.

This will remove the blue mic icon next to your online connex bar top right of your screen.

SoundFlags.UseRadioChatter=1

Set this to

SoundFlags.UseRadioChatter=0