King's Bounty Vs Heroes V

[Metroplex]

I played KB but was curious about the game it is likened to, Heroes V.
I recently bought Heroes V on ebay and I just want to know if it is going to be a bit like KB when I get it.
So please post your thoughts!:(

[Zhuangzi]

I rate KB as one of my top 10 or perhaps 20 PC games of all time. I spent well over 200 and possibly 300 hours playing it before I finally got bored. I will buy the expansion the moment it is available on Gamersgate, and probably any games Katauri make in the future.

HoMM V, I bought Tribes of the East a few weeks ago and downloaded a patch which gives the earlier campaigns as well. On the surface there appears to be a fair bit of similarity between the two, especially in terms of the combat. HoMM V has more of a strategic layer, but it's still pretty simplistic.

The first two missions of the ToE campaign were a lot of fun and quite difficult on normal difficulty. I found the first campaign of the original HoMM V very easy and quite boring. After about 20-30 hours of play, I stopped playing and started playing something else. (Space Rangers 2: Reboot).

KB has the x factor that HoMM V lacks. I also don't like the traditional mission structure in HoMM V, which requires you to build up your towns from scratch every mission. This was also a problem in Disciples 2.

So I guess I am saying KB >>>>>>>>>>>>>> daylight >>>>>>>>>>>> HoMM V :-P

[Gatts]

Homm V
+ Multiplayer
+ map editor
+ random map generator
+ various level up/hero scenarios, interesting skill tree
+ many maps available download
+ you can create maps that would exactly meet your player / skill level (as soon I thought I have exploited all hidden bonuses and found a way how to use them on full extend -> I just created DUEL MAP where I enjoy how AI is stuck before 300 black dragons and I could defeat them with minimum loses... still I fear that HOMM V AI cheats somehow... if AI hero defeats a very difficult stack, I realize he bears minimum loses)
- balanced

- You may spend more time in map creator, instead of playing the game
- scenarios are quite linear, as you find out when and what army will pop up before your main hero -> you just reload few turns before and you can totally prepare
- campaign can looks like too difficult for starters, boring for second time players
- apart of general balance - if you are lucky, you get the right spells with the right skills and you rule... you can defeat 20x stronger enemy neutral stacks 10x stronger enemy heroes...5x stronger enemy human player (artefact that negates all mind imunities, frenzy + control, you cast frenzy on one unit, control mind on another, blind also is good combo -> so even if enemy hero may counteract with dispell, you can level up your hero that she will cast faster/quicker/more often than enemy hero :) - you won the map
- town portal can't be exploited -> blame me - I have reported due beta test, that if you place heroes the castles you don't want teleport to, town portal will bring you to the nearest empty castle (like cheating) now if you place hero in the nearest castle - town portal does not work at all :)

I played HOMM V for a long time... but it is because I could create mapst to my likings... I have finished only one campaign and found it boring (but I am not campaign guy at all - I didn't like any campaign, since Homm 2, where I loved to play first for good, then evil, than for only evil for ever and ever

[Zhuangzi]

Homm V
+ Multiplayer
+ map editor
+ random map generator
+ various level up/hero scenarios, interesting skill tree
+ many maps available download
+ you can create maps that would exactly meet your player / skill level (as soon I thought I have exploited all hidden bonuses and found a way how to use them on full extend -> I just created DUEL MAP where I enjoy how AI is stuck before 300 black dragons and I could defeat them with minimum loses... still I fear that HOMM V AI cheats somehow... if AI hero defeats a very difficult stack, I realize he bears minimum loses)
- balanced

- You may spend more time in map creator, instead of playing the game
- scenarios are quite linear, as you find out when and what army will pop up before your main hero -> you just reload few turns before and you can totally prepare
- campaign can looks like too difficult for starters, boring for second time players
- apart of general balance - if you are lucky, you get the right spells with the right skills and you rule... you can defeat 20x stronger enemy neutral stacks 10x stronger enemy heroes...5x stronger enemy human player (artefact that negates all mind imunities, frenzy + control, you cast frenzy on one unit, control mind on another, blind also is good combo -> so even if enemy hero may counteract with dispell, you can level up your hero that she will cast faster/quicker/more often than enemy hero :) - you won the map
- town portal can't be exploited -> blame me - I have reported due beta test, that if you place heroes the castles you don't want teleport to, town portal will bring you to the nearest empty castle (like cheating) now if you place hero in the nearest castle - town portal does not work at all :)

I played HOMM V for a long time... but it is because I could create mapst to my likings... I have finished only one campaign and found it boring (but I am not campaign guy at all - I didn't like any campaign, since Homm 2, where I loved to play first for good, then evil, than for only evil for ever and ever

Gatts, this very clearly demonstrates one of the crucial differences between HoMM V and KB:TL. From what you said, it sounds like multiplayer and map editing is a big part of HoMM V, two things I have never been interested in. What I want in a game is an engrossing single player campaign, and this is why I much preferred KB:TL.

[Gatts]

Gatts, this very clearly demonstrates one of the crucial differences between HoMM V and KB:TL. From what you said, it sounds like multiplayer and map editing is a big part of HoMM V, two things I have never been interested in. What I want in a game is an engrossing single player campaign, and this is why I much preferred KB:TL.

Funny is that I also much more prefer KB tL :) ... somehow I wonder myself :) (maybe I become just fed up by my own map designing/ working on the strategy... and enjoyed great prepared scenario from KB...)

[Warmonger]

The main difference is that Kings Bounty is an awesome one-shot singleplayer experience, while Heroes V is multiplayer-oriented likely to be played over and over again.

What I find really interetsing is the presence of leadership, a factor which perfectly adjusts game balance suring the very long run. In HV after a while your armies either grow way too big for any oposing enemies or singlpeplayer map design forces creator to put ridiculous numbers of creatures to provide any challenge at all. Also, the number of possible bonuses, artifacts and rewardgiven in single player is quite limited and hard to overcome.

This, however, was intended to work fine for short two-months skirmishes between players, especially on very popular duel maps. Not to mention there's even a separate mode called duel mode, where all you do is fight instantly.

Quite simply, I find KB refreshing full of interesting ideas, but by now too simple to be considered as favourite game.

[Snarl]

To my mind they're both excellent games and similar in many respects. I consider that a good thing and hold KBTL in high esteem with the Heroes Series, Disciples, Age of Wonders etc... another quality player in this market is greatly appreciated, I bought KBTL and I'll buy the expansion without hesitation also recommend to others.

Cheers; Snarl

Another Guy From Canada

[Holywhippet]

There is one major problem I have with HOMM 5 and it's that some of the scenarios (single player) don't seem to be well balanced. In particular, the one scenario that made me shelve the game until a later date involves defending 5 or so border gates at the same time. You aren't allowed to go beyond the gates where enemy heroes are running around building up their armies etc. Problem is, you don't know where they are going to strike first/next, aren't entirely sure when they will start attacking and you lose the scenario if you lose 2 of them IIRC.

This makes your mission pretty damn hard since you are dealing with limited resources. You can reinforce the gates but you can't know which ones to focus on.

[DarkAngel]

In my opinion and observation, KB blends the best features of DIABLO and HOMM.

That is why it is so addictive to us all.

DIABLO has a good single RPG story and non-stop running around (but not so interesting hack/slash combat)

HOMM has the best combat strategy concept in terms of unit battles (but boring turn by turn movement)

[Gatts]

There is one major problem I have with HOMM 5 and it's that some of the scenarios (single player) don't seem to be well balanced. In particular, the one scenario that made me shelve the game until a later date involves defending 5 or so border gates at the same time. You aren't allowed to go beyond the gates where enemy heroes are running around building up their armies etc. Problem is, you don't know where they are going to strike first/next, aren't entirely sure when they will start attacking and you lose the scenario if you lose 2 of them IIRC.

This makes your mission pretty damn hard since you are dealing with limited resources. You can reinforce the gates but you can't know which ones to focus on.

Oh yeah -> most HOMM series maps (even without locked borders) are concetrated difficulty on "owning" land -> what means that you have to travel hell fast and if possible to have more heroes... be able to visit weekly resources, defend and attack at the same time... but if you have more heroes -> each one is weaker (compared if you would have only one main hero)...

I always liked One-Hero strategy (concentrate all power/experience in one hero) so that is why I so much like KB tL !!

In Homm (any) I had huge problems with players who could spread the power between more heroes, so even if I could win agains each of enemies heroes -> his strategy to "not be caught" and stealing my nearly empty castles weakened me in time till I lost based on my resignation.

[lauvhk]

After all, HOMM is a game focus on competition, even if the competitor is just the AI. Since HOMM1, it deviates from the original KB in terms of the core mechanics. The only thing that both games share is the concept of turn based encounter.

[phoenixreborn]

In King's Bounty the competition is to beat your best time.

No competition, they are both great fun games.

[Gatts]

Well, I personally am not a competetive type at all, also I am very weak strategyst, so games that bear strong competetive signs are creating strong fear inside me, but it is always the "magical" fantasy world/ fantasy army, spells/magic and my own imaginations (where I can see in my head the 1230 goblins clubbing 2 black dragons to near dead, one dragon dies with strong roar, but in last second 21 angry black titans shoots theirs storm arrows which decimate the goblins who are finished by the bleeding but furious black dragon who saw his mate dying in frenzy battle. .. I see all the bodies of 1230 dead goblins, some without armor or helmets, some black from fire of dragons, some still sparking from the arrows of lightning from titans.. and in the middle of the hoard is the wounded but victorius dragon, viciously searching for revenge, aiming it's dead cold look towards 3 lasting cyclops, who do not know that their last hour will just pass away very soon)

Even in King's Bounty I realized I have much less fun when I found out that I can't finish the game without loses, not even in 7 days, and that I got huge problems on impossible (even with dryads), the same was for HOMM x, where I was able to win not few scenarios on internet/hot seat or lan, but still some players where unbeatable by me... but it was the fearie environment, spells, dragons, heroes, artefacts... castles (In Homm 2 I loved the building of castles... and I fought the first games only to be able to finish / complete each type of castle to 100%... also searching for more enemies - as I didn't have manual and did not know what all types of armies are lurking in the beutiful lands... and what does the wind mill do? and what happens when I visit the tent with two swords? What is thief's den?... the winning if any was only the small cherry on the top)

[prowler]

I am playing KB like 10 days now and i must admit its pretty good and adictive. I especially like graphics and nice story with funny characters. I am not easily impressed, to tell you the truth i have played and stick to only several games all my life cause those others dont have that something. I just install new game, play it few hours and on most time uninstall it :)
This game was something different it has something special. I havent felt that since i played Heroes III, which is till today IMHO the best game that i have ever played and i am still playing it online. I remember i played it for month without stoping and changing to another game. I hope it will be similar with KB. :) Heroes V doesnt have that something. Its just Heroes III with new graphics, but IMHO bad graphics. And story and gaming is not that adictive as in Heroes III and KB. It misses something. I dont know what. It felts like it was made just like another project (game) with no good ideas, and on the other hand KB is something really fresh and new in gaming world. I think that heroes V with KB graphics engine and funny storyline would be something special. Anyhow i hope KB team will keep up the good work.

[phoenixreborn]

For me playing heroes v online made it from an ok game to an excellent game.

[jwallstone]

I agree with Warmonger. The leadership system makes a big difference. In HOMM V, stacks grow without limit, so the game becomes a race to accumulate tons and tons of units, and typically you want to concentrate all the troops on one "super-hero" rather than spread them out, even though the game theoretically is designed for people to utilize multiple heroes strategically. The reason for this is that with huge stacks, a huge part of winning is simply hitting first. If two equal stacks fight, and the first one to hit kills over half of the other stack, then even with retaliation, that small battle is already won. It becomes annoying because in the late game, it's no longer fun anymore to see half or all of one of your stacks wiped out in one hit. The entire game becomes accumating units, avoiding major battles with your main opponent, going after neutral stacks until you build up your hero and a large army, and then one large "super" battle at the end where the built-up armies decimate each other and whoever happens to come out on top wins (i.e. whoever manages to get some good first hits). You could try to play more strategically, with multiple heroes engaging in medium-sized skirmishes, but the game will punish you for that compared to the person that just builds up a single large army. The economies of scale from large armies is just too powerful.

The leadership system I think goes a long way to solving this. By controlling the increase in power for heroes, it prevents this runaway arms race to simply accumulate units. I imagine if HOMM V had leadership caps for heroes, it'd become a much more strategically rich game, involving managing a number of decent armies across the map to control resources, towns, chokepoints, etc, but where even an opponent who's already behind in army strength due to bad luck or a lost battle can still recover with good strategy and tactics.

[jwallstone]

A couple more thoughts. Leadership is big, but there are a few other differences to be aware of. If you compare creature statistics between King's Bounty and HOMM V, you'll find that HOMM V creatures are designed with much higher damage potentials versus hitpoints. In KB, you'll have units with 50-80 hitpoints doing 5-10 damage (roughly), whereas in HOMM V units with the same hp range are doing 15-20 damage. Even the top tier units have 200-300 hp, but are doing 40-50 hitpoints. Compare that to KB top tier units, with 600-800 hp, maybe 3-4 times as much, but doing about twice as much damage. This means units die a lot faster in HOMM V. Even Attack and Defense give 5% bonuses rather than 3.3% in KB.

Also, I like the hero leveling system in KB more. Talent runes and skill trees are great, despite whatever skills may or may not be balanced. In HOMM V, just figuring out how to pick skills, abilities and perks (yes, they have three names for practically the same thing) can be a complicated mess. There are so many crazy rules and dependencies that it makes it difficult to plan and for me requires a skill wheel just to make sense of it (very well done, by the way, thanks to the HOMM V community). Furthermore, the choices are random, which can make it impossible to build a hero the way you want, and sometimes you can get offered two poor choices where choosing either one completely rules out other skills that you want. I like that in KB there is some randomness, in getting choices for Attack, Defense, Mana, Rage, etc, but it's a much smaller impact and not a big deal if you don't get what you want, and you can direct the growth of your hero's talents, which has a bigger impact in my opinion, whereas in HOMM V poor random choices can completely screw up your plan. Also, some skills in HOMM V are almost entirely useless, i.e. I think there's more imbalance in HOMM V between good/bad skills.

Sorry to rain on HOMM V so much. It really is a fun game that I like, and I've been a fan since HOMM 1 (or even since the original KB, if you count that). There are many things to like about HOMM V, but I think there are some major game design problems, which KB does a great job of addressing, and which make KB a superior game overall.

[Roman]

Gatts, this very clearly demonstrates one of the crucial differences between HoMM V and KB:TL. From what you said, it sounds like multiplayer and map editing is a big part of HoMM V, two things I have never been interested in. What I want in a game is an engrossing single player campaign, and this is why I much preferred KB:TL.

Yes, this is correct. In single player KB:TL dominates HoMM V without a doubt. KB:TL is simply en excellent game - there is no doubt about that. For multiplayer, though, HoMM V and particularly the second expansion TotE is a very good game indeed (and I also dislike competitive games - I play HoMM V multiplayer cooperatively to defeat the AI).

[Zhuangzi]

KB:TL is in my top ten games ever. 15+ years of gaming. I played it solidly for two months, like 4-6 hours a day, every day. I was addicted. Then, finally, I stopped in mid November. Heh, I even deleted the shortcut off the desktop so I wouldn't play any more.

Now I just booted it up again for the first time since 16th Nov. :eek: