It's time for some critics.

[Smash]

It is time for some harsh words. Game was charged for full price in Poland and it really give little in back. To make some things clear i am big fan of homm3 and disciples 2 but i hate homm5 for various reasons.

Overall game looks rushed:
- nothing worth calling intro
- pathetic story, beginning looks great especially myth style prolog but more deeper more nonsense.
- first 2 lands look rich but later i got feel of rush, less of everything.
- very small creature poll, especially when most of them are similar (bears) or are blank (zombies, dwarves, miners) or looks very similar orc -> orc veteran what can piss off. To much run skill (run for zombie? wth?) give you feeling of lack of ideas (btw, no lvl 5 human unit? oO).
- not as much random mostly because of small creatures and items poll, plus some plays will always has specific type of creature.
- To much ideas from others place making game funny maybe at first glance but it only show that they didn't have ideas so they borrow. Everyone love easter eggs but this whole game is easter egg. Most irritating thing? turtle and world.
- when you see in dwarves mines magma rock showing that demons are slowing taking land from dwarves plus war mention plus all this defense with cannons you are expecting to see some cool ingame battles between two forces, at least cut scene, nope nothing in other words world is too static, nothing happen, no adrenaline pump until you are running away from beholders ;)
- AI, word pathetic is too weak, most stupid ai i have yet to see, ai casting blind on one of your soldiers just to attack them right away? Omg.
- flat, boring battlefield, common we have, let me check end of 2008? After playing homm3 for over 7 years this will not increase my interest. No treasures or statues make a job. Please more ingenuity.
- fighting with bosses where somehow refresh but only 3? And you meet them in first half of the game? No end game boss? WTH? No time, money or ideas?
- Talent tree very boring and too much useless skills, no game changing skills as much as i hate homm5 in term of hero progression aka skills it beats kb on head.
- Spells lack something, like f.e. not enough mass spells, if there is precision where is bloodlust, shield etc.
- Rage spirits are just spells for warrior, i really missed two things with them first some more buff debuff spells, too much not worth damage spells and theirs presence on the battlefield as powerful units.
- path finding issues, really i would love to click on some long distance and watch as my hero move there not watching as he crash on nearest obstacle or even not move in first place so have to do step by step sometimes.
- < reserve slot for more complaints :) >

On plus i like environment very much especially this jumping from tree too tree squirrels, battlefield which is not random but bigger version of where you met opponent (impressive), art works and elvish music :)

But seriously i doubt that they will rid me of money for their expansion if they don't put more effort into it.

[Zhuangzi]

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it. My comments on what you said:

Story

For me, I agree that the story is pretty lame, but at least you don't have to suffer through it as you would in a game with lots of cutscenes. You can just click through the text if you want to.

Originality

No, it's not an original game. So what? For me a game has to be fun, not original. And this game (for me) is insanely fun.

Lack of Intro/Cutscenes

Not an issue. If I want 'cutscenes' I will watch a movie. :-P

Variety between Lands

Darion is the best land, I agree. It is amazing. Freedom Isles looks amazing but turns out to be a bit of a grind. Kordar is my least favourite, but what's the problem with Ellinia/Land of the Dead? Plenty of detail there. Haas' Labyrinth is interesting (but annoying to navigate) and Murock is poor. I would agree that Murock seems rushed.

Lack of Creatures, Lack of Abilities

What are you on about here? :confused: There are dozens of creatures and abilities.

Weak AI

Yes, the AI is weak. But I would like to see multiplayer so that we could test the strategies that work so well against the AI on each other.

Flat, Boring Battlefield

TOTALLY disagree. I have been playing turned based strategy games for about 15 years (approximately since Master of Orion 1) and I say that this is one of the best TBS experiences in that time. Amazing battle world.

Only 3 Bosses

I will admit that its a bit strange that all 3 bosses are in the first half of the game. But when you think about it there are several other major fights (Karador, Baal, Bagud) but they are not 'boss fights.' I agree they could have been spread better over the game.

Talent Tree boring

Nope, disagree.

Spells boring

No, I love the range of spells in this game.

Rage spirits just for warrior

Um, no. This is wrong.

For me, some of your complaints are somewhat valid or true. But you are missing the central fact that keeps many people playing for over 200 hours. The game is insanely fun. The world is well constructed and full of interesting things to do. And most of all, the battle mode is one of the best TBS experiences in the past ten or fifteen years of TBS games. :cool:

[Amamake]

Intresting arenas? In MY Homm3?

[Wenla]

IMHO:

OP hasn't noticed that this game is not HoMM, this is KB...

Wenla

[Gatts]

Well, I would agree on most of the points from Smash post, BUT
the overall negativeness is for me making impression only up to 10% from all game impressions, this leaves me 90% of the game which I like (or let say 20% where I may feel netural - like "well, I have seen that" but still 70% where I fell " WOOOW" )

Also if this is not the best place to start - I believe that HOMM V is fine and I liked it from first betatesting till 3.1 version (till now) and the skill tree is great in HOMMV (is perfect for multiplayer - as you may plan whatever tactics - but if you don't get the skill you planned - you have to improvize... great great)

So I will absolutely buy Armored princess! (even if I still am afraid that my 10% which I strongly dislike on KB will be still in Armored princess... but I don't care - it is part of the game)

FYI - most games from 07, 08 that were released I felt bad above 60% and was neutral for 20% ~35% - so KB is my personal game hit in my likenss table - as 70% of "I totally love" hasn't got last two years no game in my personal table of good games. - bun in 09 will be Disciples 3 out, and I can't wait to have dilemma home - which game to start? D3 or KB AP?

[travelingoz]

I have to agree to with some of the points made. I felt that half the areas looked rushed and were frankly quite boring to work through, especially demons land....the floating platforms reminded me of a low budget movie! ( one hot sex scene to make up for lack of special fx!)

The skill tree also leaves a lot to be desired and many skill slots are redundant. Some of the spells are great, however many others are useless. Who's ever used greasy mist? And there are some strange omissions. Why no morale boosting spell?

As opposed to the original poster, i actually love HOMM5. While it has a few flaws, KB could adopt some of the skill tree ideas. However i'd also love to see the geyser spell in HOMM!

Having said the above, i love this game! It's fun to play and most importantly challenging. I used to play "Thief 1~3" and i love 'sneaking' around seeing where i can get into and out of without getting busted. Certainly getting chased by pissed off beholders is as good an a adrenaline buzz as i've ever got out of a FPS!

Can't wait 4 the expansion. In the meantime, i'm on my 4th run through trying Paladin on impossible with no losses this time.

[eMeM]

- Rage spirits are just spells for warrior, i really missed two things with them first some more buff debuff spells, too much not worth damage spells and theirs presence on the battlefield as powerful units.

I couldn't agree more! That's just pathetic idea from game devs. I just wanted to play warrior the only way its meant to be played - brutal force! Yeah, yeah, i can still do that but come on.


- < reserve slot for more complaints :) >

Only reason I played it for so long was because I spent few days (and nights) playing it so I wanted to at least finish it. As time passed it only get more boring and I was more and more annoyed. Dont get me wrong. I like many things about KB: tL. Overall it's a good game.

[Smash]

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it. My comments on what you said:

Story

For me, I agree that the story is pretty lame, but at least you don't have to suffer through it as you would in a game with lots of cutscenes. You can just click through the text if you want to.

Originality

No, it's not an original game. So what? For me a game has to be fun, not original. And this game (for me) is insanely fun.

Lack of Intro/Cutscenes

Not an issue. If I want 'cutscenes' I will watch a movie. :-P

Variety between Lands

Darion is the best land, I agree. It is amazing. Freedom Isles looks amazing but turns out to be a bit of a grind. Kordar is my least favourite, but what's the problem with Ellinia/Land of the Dead? Plenty of detail there. Haas' Labyrinth is interesting (but annoying to navigate) and Murock is poor. I would agree that Murock seems rushed.

Lack of Creatures, Lack of Abilities

What are you on about here? :confused: There are dozens of creatures and abilities.

Weak AI

Yes, the AI is weak. But I would like to see multiplayer so that we could test the strategies that work so well against the AI on each other.

Flat, Boring Battlefield

TOTALLY disagree. I have been playing turned based strategy games for about 15 years (approximately since Master of Orion 1) and I say that this is one of the best TBS experiences in that time. Amazing battle world.

Only 3 Bosses

I will admit that its a bit strange that all 3 bosses are in the first half of the game. But when you think about it there are several other major fights (Karador, Baal, Bagud) but they are not 'boss fights.' I agree they could have been spread better over the game.

Talent Tree boring

Nope, disagree.

Spells boring

No, I love the range of spells in this game.

Rage spirits just for warrior

Um, no. This is wrong.

For me, some of your complaints are somewhat valid or true. But you are missing the central fact that keeps many people playing for over 200 hours. The game is insanely fun. The world is well constructed and full of interesting things to do. And most of all, the battle mode is one of the best TBS experiences in the past ten or fifteen years of TBS games. :cool:

I am confused, how fights are better or even different than this in homm3 or 5 apart from smaller creep and items poll.
Compare skill wheel from homm5 or even skills from homm3 to talents (a'la WoW) in KB:L. I guarantee that you will have more fun in building your hero in any homm (even 4).
Can you write what making you playing this game fun so far (i personally got bored on my second go with warrior and leaved game staying near demonis portal). How is your experience with homm3 or at least homm 5? Did you played Disciples 2 (great story)?

[Zhuangzi]

Smash, I haven't played the HOMM series. I completely missed the first 4 and then when 5 came out I played the demo and didn't like it. I thought it was slow and cumbersome. So I am yet to play HOMM V.

Disciples II on the other hand is one of my favourite games. I played it and all the expansions (except the Elven one) many times. I see KB as closest to Disciples II in gameplay, with KB being superior. Even though D2 has more of a strategic overview (with the resources, castles etc) there were a lot of things I found annoying in time, such as the way you could only take one hero to the next map. The turn based play also got very tedious at times (I mean on the strategic level, not the tactical battles). And the battles were more limited than they are in KB.

So it might be true that one of the reasons I love KB so much is that I haven't played the HOMM series. But for whatever reason I have played this game now well over 200 hours now, and that's more than more than all but a handful of games in the last ten years. :cool:

[Smash]

This is inexcusable,it is blasphemy , your TBS expierence means nothing if you didn't touch the king, go repair this right now and buy Heroes of Might and Magic III gold edition (started with shadow of death expansion and go skirmish). Do it right now!!! What you waiting for? GO! (and don't bother with homm5)

warning! if you do this your personal life is over, you are lost to this world, sorry i warned.

After play go back and we will have some serious talk.

[Zhuangzi]

Don't bother with HOMM V? I was just investigating the possibility of buying that game. It turns out that Ubisoft are about to release all HOMM V and the 2 expansions in one budget disk (That's Hot range) which will be like $20 for me! So why shouldn't I play HOMM V?

I think I saw a HOMM 3 + 4 complete DVD a while back... :-P

[Smash]

If you really want all heroes there should be something like this in shops:
http://www.gram.pl/upl/artykul/120081024153208.jpg
It has all heroes from I to V with all exp.
But still trust me everything you need is the King! Go buy homm3.
Later you may try homm5 maybe you will taste in it :/.

Edit: oh my memory just bring back additional complaint so i upgrade my first post :).

[sector24]

The only think KB and HoMM have in common is turn based combat, and King's Bounty has far superior turn based combat. If you're into castle building and resource management, then HoMM may be the better choice but if you compare the things they have in common, KB is the better game.

[onepiece]

It is time for some harsh words. Game was charged for full price in Poland and it really give little in back. To make some things clear i am big fan of homm3 and disciples 2 but i hate homm5 for various reasons.

Overall game looks rushed:
- nothing worth calling intro
- pathetic story, beginning looks great especially myth style prolog but more deeper more nonsense.
- first 2 lands look rich but later i got feel of rush, less of everything.
- very small creature poll, especially when most of them are similar (bears) or are blank (zombies, dwarves, miners) or looks very similar orc -> orc veteran what can piss off. To much run skill (run for zombie? wth?) give you feeling of lack of ideas (btw, no lvl 5 human unit? oO).
- not as much random mostly because of small creatures and items poll, plus some plays will always has specific type of creature.
- To much ideas from others place making game funny maybe at first glance but it only show that they didn't have ideas so they borrow. Everyone love easter eggs but this whole game is easter egg. Most irritating thing? turtle and world.
- when you see in dwarves mines magma rock showing that demons are slowing taking land from dwarves plus war mention plus all this defense with cannons you are expecting to see some cool ingame battles between two forces, at least cut scene, nope nothing in other words world is too static, nothing happen, no adrenaline pump until you are running away from beholders ;)
- AI, word pathetic is too weak, most stupid ai i have yet to see, ai casting blind on one of your soldiers just to attack them right away? Omg.
- flat, boring battlefield, common we have, let me check end of 2008? After playing homm3 for over 7 years this will not increase my interest. No treasures or statues make a job. Please more ingenuity.
- fighting with bosses where somehow refresh but only 3? And you meet them in first half of the game? No end game boss? WTH? No time, money or ideas?
- Talent tree very boring and too much useless skills, no game changing skills as much as i hate homm5 in term of hero progression aka skills it beats kb on head.
- Spells lack something, like f.e. not enough mass spells, if there is precision where is bloodlust, shield etc.
- Rage spirits are just spells for warrior, i really missed two things with them first some more buff debuff spells, too much not worth damage spells and theirs presence on the battlefield as powerful units.
- path finding issues, really i would love to click on some long distance and watch as my hero move there not watching as he crash on nearest obstacle or even not move in first place so have to do step by step sometimes.
- < reserve slot for more complaints :) >

On plus i like environment very much especially this jumping from tree too tree squirrels, battlefield which is not random but bigger version of where you met opponent (impressive), art works and elvish music :)

But seriously i doubt that they will rid me of money for their expansion if they don't put more effort into it.
I agree with you only in that there aren't many units, and they are kind of the same (gost-cursed ghost, swordmen-guardsmen). In my case, by Elf's land I had already seen all of them so from there on it turned kind of repetitive to not see new ones (I expected new units for the final battle).

3 bosses? yes and they are in the first half of the game. There could be a truly strong one for the final battle!!.

Cut scenes? Yes but only a few (after a characters like Karador or Hass death). Or a cool intro.

Talent skill could be a little bigger, with skills that could only be reached near the end of the game because of rune requierements. And make mind skills more useful, most of them are useless.

Reserve slots? Yes please!! It could disbalance the whole game but it could also lead to new strategies and, come on, some battles where 10 against 5! It could have been a little fairier plus it was a irritant. I mean, I attack a castle with only 5 when he has twice as much as me? Not the best way to win a battle. And about disbalancing the game, give more troops to the enemies, or create a better AI.

The history is not a masterpiece but HELL, other games have far worse and are still entertaining. Sure it could have been better, but it could be worse.

A little balancing could use the chest of rage. There are only a few really useful abilities and the others take space for only 4 precious techniques per summon ( Lina specially, not useful enough)

And money could be more valuable. I had little 4 MM by the end of the game and not a single item sold so it looked like it was just for decoration. Maybe make it more scarce or things more expensive.

But aside from that, what a great gaming experience!! I don’t remember becomming so addicted to a game since I played Titan’s Quest and Inmortal Throne and beat the 3 difficulties one after another. KB:L is a great game, small mistakes are there but still the experience is there: GREAT

P.S: Put more vocalized music in the expansion pleaseeeee ( Shadow of and Oak pleople?)

[Ish]

I'm a big fan of HOMM and kings bounty.

My take on HOMM for those who havent played it (suprised to be honest.. as I thought most KB fans would have come from a heroes background..)

Heroes 3 was awesome, and it had great expansion packs - Armageddons blade and the shadow of death. It was very fun in single player and multiplayer. I didnt really play wog, so wont comment on that.

Heroes 5 was very fun in multiplayer as there are quite diverse tactical options, far beyond mere fighting, but also in character and kingdom development. However it's single player campaign is rather lacking... as it is more complex than KB and harder to even up the AI without 'cheating'. It also had a terrible story which made you not care about the characters or anything like that.

[Smash]

The only think KB and HoMM have in common is turn based combat, and King's Bounty has far superior turn based combat. If you're into castle building and resource management, then HoMM may be the better choice but if you compare the things they have in common, KB is the better game.

Care to explain? How it is superior turn based combat when system is nearly same?

[Amamake]

Don't bother with HOMM V? I was just investigating the possibility of buying that game. It turns out that Ubisoft are about to release all HOMM V and the 2 expansions in one budget disk (That's Hot range) which will be like $20 for me! So why shouldn't I play HOMM V?

I think I saw a HOMM 3 + 4 complete DVD a while back...

HOMM V is good and expansions improved it a lot. You will probably find this game not as addictive and somewhat lacking in clarity compared to KB:TL, but still it's very intelligent and interesting game. Same applies to HOMM 3.

[Gatts]

Care to explain? How it is superior turn based combat when system is nearly same?

Well, I believe as well that KB has much better combat system...

Plus:
You may fight combined neutral armies - where the stack number can be above your double stack number (above 10 enemy stack units - much more fun)

You can fight the guardians (gremlins) - HUGE Fun

You can collect treasures (great minigame to catpure the damn treasure sooner than your enemy and still not take disadvantage from it - need of fast tanks in your army)

Rage box (something similar was in WOG as hanchman, but rage box is real real fun)

living obstacles (healer pillar, lightning pillar, volcano, undead casket... )

Visuals - like real eye candies (even HOMM V has beutifull 3-d combat camera, but KB somehow feels more magical/beutifull... a lot more, HOMM V animation is somehow sterile)

Minus:
Not the best of the best AI (still above average) - which is solved in MOD (and probably in patch)

[Gatts]

Don't bother with HOMM V? I was just investigating the possibility of buying that game. It turns out that Ubisoft are about to release all HOMM V and the 2 expansions in one budget disk (That's Hot range) which will be like $20 for me! So why shouldn't I play HOMM V?

I think I saw a HOMM 3 + 4 complete DVD a while back... :-P

Actually HOMM V 3.1 (Tribes of the EAST - ToE) is all in one pack - it contains the self-sufficient original + 1st datadisk (dwarves) and second datadisk (ToE) - I think its called alone standing :) - and it is really cheap nowdays, so don't be confused by some "special editions" where you can get some "silver" toys (unless you really wants these toys).

Alos HOMM V 3.1 ToE has many MOD's so you can be sure the fun is 120% of the thrice patched bug-less original (3.1).

Homm V is best online - another reason buying it. (You should be prepared that the scenario becomes very hard very soon, even if playing easy diff -> this is because the maps contain many "traps" and quick save/load will be a must - but as it has map generator and really cool map editor and many many maps for download from fans - hundreds hours of fun goes for sure...

For anyone who has to decide between HOMM V or KB - choose KB (or even better, wait for armored pricness - it will support 3-D googles)

[sector24]

Care to explain? How it is superior turn based combat when system is nearly same?

Hmm, I'm not sure I can adequately explain this. I've been playing TBS games for almost 25 years now, and you get a "gut feeling" of whether a game is well designed or not but you can't always say why.

One thing I really like is the way they implemented the "wait" command. Sounds silly I know, but in most games, if you wait and then your opponent waits, you still have to go first. In KB, the advantage goes towards the unit with higher initiative, so that if you wait your slower opponents can wait but they'll still have to move before you. It's a small thing, but it adds a lot of strategy.

Also, I really like the randomly generated battlefields with obstacles, and sometimes with goodies like treasure chests. My favorite are the coffins with skeletons inside, but the whole thing is just a good concept taken one step farther than the games that came before it.

Another thing I like about the combat is that luck exists, but plays such a small role that strategy is still the defining factor in who wins. This is not a direct comparison to any of the HoMM games, just a general observation. Sometimes random damage ranges and critical chance make a game too unpredictable, but KB not only gives you those values up front, but when you mouse over your opponent you can see the damage range and how many opponents you will kill. A very nice little feature.

I think the power levels and leadership costs of the units are well balanced. What unbalances the game are a select few items and a select few spells. For instance, Magic Spring is a game destabilizing spell. I relied on it heavily to bend the AI to my will. Without it the game would be much harder. Sacrifice and Resurrection are similar but I actually like those spells. Possibly the game would be more challenging not if they were removed, but just toned down so that intelligence didn't add as much to the spell's power.

The items that unbalance the game are Anga's Ruby, Isshara's Whip, etc. They're definitely fun, but they massively increase the damage potential of female and low leadership units. Of course, lake fairies, sprites and dryads are low leadership female units, so you see why they're so powerful. Even the dragonslayer sword to a degree unbalances what should be seriously difficult fights.

But the thing is that the game is not balanced for hardcore players, it's balanced for regular gamers. I think the game's balance is good even though once you learn the sneaky tricks you can beat it on any difficulty level. But the combat really is top notch despite the fact that there are ways to exploit it.

Strategic (the most important)
Small amount of randomness that doesn't overshadow strategy
Tons of options for diverse and successful armies and playstyles
Neat obstacles and objects on the battlefield
Well thought out combat rules that add to the strategy

The things that drag the combat down are not actually part of the combat. They are spells and items that can be exploited to upset the game's natural balance. Hope that helps to explain my point of view.

[Smash]

Hmm, I'm not sure I can adequately explain this. I've been playing TBS games for almost 25 years now, and you get a "gut feeling" of whether a game is well designed or not but you can't always say why.

One thing I really like is the way they implemented the "wait" command. Sounds silly I know, but in most games, if you wait and then your opponent waits, you still have to go first. In KB, the advantage goes towards the unit with higher initiative, so that if you wait your slower opponents can wait but they'll still have to move before you. It's a small thing, but it adds a lot of strategy.

It is same like in homm3, Archangels are the fastest unit for example if you press wait they will act last no matter if your opponent use wait too.No new things here.

Also, I really like the randomly generated battlefields with obstacles, and sometimes with goodies like treasure chests. My favorite are the coffins with skeletons inside, but the whole thing is just a good concept taken one step farther than the games that came before it.

Battlefields are nearly same, in homm3 obstacles are randomize too. There is no goodies on battlefield but treasures make no sense why you cannot pick them after fight? Logic fail. I would really prefer destructible obstacles, few levels not one level battlefield (it is 3d FFS) and maybe during fight random third party encounter to spice battle.

Another thing I like about the combat is that luck exists, but plays such a small role that strategy is still the defining factor in who wins. This is not a direct comparison to any of the HoMM games, just a general observation. Sometimes random damage ranges and critical chance make a game too unpredictable, but KB not only gives you those values up front, but when you mouse over your opponent you can see the damage range and how many opponents you will kill. A very nice little feature.

Well it is same like in homm3 apart that you need count yourself how much you kill (in homm5 this you have already implemented). Luck factor is in both games homm and kb, you just need to take it in calculation.

I think the power levels and leadership costs of the units are well balanced. What unbalances the game are a select few items and a select few spells. For instance, Magic Spring is a game destabilizing spell. I relied on it heavily to bend the AI to my will. Without it the game would be much harder. Sacrifice and Resurrection are similar but I actually like those spells. Possibly the game would be more challenging not if they were removed, but just toned down so that intelligence didn't add as much to the spell's power.

Well homm3 is far from balance too. KB:L would be much harder if ai wasn't so dump.

The items that unbalance the game are Anga's Ruby, Isshara's Whip, etc. They're definitely fun, but they massively increase the damage potential of female and low leadership units. Of course, lake fairies, sprites and dryads are low leadership female units, so you see why they're so powerful. Even the dragonslayer sword to a degree unbalances what should be seriously difficult fights.

There should be powerful items but not guarantee one. This is problem.

You didn't really answer my question sadly, for someone who played a lot homm3 this game do not offer anything new or interesting and because of small content it is get boring very fast.

[Amamake]

You didn't really answer my question sadly, for someone who played a lot homm3 this game do not offer anything new or interesting and because of small content it is get boring very fast.

Eh, no, he did provide an excellent answer to your question. You are just being a douchebag.

[monkeydog]

This game is an excellent game. As about all of us would agree or we wouldn't be posting all of these great comments and as the reviews have shown as well. The original HOMM was very good too. I played 2 through 5 and 3 was the best and had the best AI. I hate to admit it, but I played HOMM3 for about a year solid. Anyway, just for the record, I wanted to add that I think this game wasn't rushed in the slightest. It has a lot of depth and lots of details. I actually think a lot of time went into looking at the HOMM series finding, what worked and didn't and incorporated that into the design of this game. There are many new things too that are wonderful and make the game a joy to play. I guess I can't see why someone who loved the original HOMM series (specifically 3), wouldn't love this game. Clearly the developers did as can be seen by playing this game. The only things I can see that HOMM3 had that was nice and this game doesn't would be multiplayer, better AI, 7 troop stacks with larger battleground (although I prefer the new battlegrounds of this game - this would just add to it), enemy artifacts when defeating them, and multiple maps/worlds for more replayability. The only glaring thing that stands out to me are the spell exploits with the rez/sac. I mean if someone can win on impossible with no losses, then obviously this aspect needs to be re-worked. The game is very well balanced overall. Kudos guys on a job very well done overall!

[sector24]

Eh, no, he did provide an excellent answer to your question. You are just being a douchebag.

I have to admit I laughed when I read this, but then I felt a little bad for laughing. A little. :-P

Anyway, it's been quite awhile since I played HoMM 3 and obviously my memory is a little hazy. I honestly don't remember them implementing recursive waiting but it could very well be true. So I'm just going to have to go back to my "gut feeling". I remember HoMM 3 battles being largely about attrition and not very much about strategy. Basically every time you were in a battle with a non-trivial opponent, you were going to lose some of your army no matter how good you were at the game. You might lose a little more or a little less, but you were always going to lose some units just because your opponent had an army of a certain size.

This makes sense in the scope of HoMM because you can buy new units every week and the game is primarily about resource management, not tactical combat. But that's not the focus of KB at all. I like that if you really take the time to think things out, you can pull an Alexander the Great or Sun Tzu type of overwhelming victory. It's the same concept that makes the Total War games great. You don't get that in HoMM at all.

The other thing that bothered me in HoMM (and this has no comparison to KB) is that the enemy heroes could just run around willy nilly and sometimes you couldn't catch them. I remember being in a protracted battle with an AI the same size as me across a huge wide open continent. His heroes were just a tiny bit faster than mine, so I could never catch them. He'd always just run around stealing my weekly resources, or putting himself in a position where he could attack 1 of 2 castles, and I had to choose which one to defend. Then he'd always take the other one, and I'd take it back and crush him, but lose about a week's worth of units doing it. He'd buy his hero back from the inn and we'd do it again.

The whole thing was frustrating and pointless and due to the fact that no matter how skilled I was, I was going to lose half my army taking back my castle, I could never get out of that stupid cycle. I eventually just quit. That is the sour taste that sticks with me from HoMM and why I stopped playing. It's not a game about strategic combat like KB is.

[Zhuangzi]

To echo some of what sector said, I had a think about it and there are a couple of key reasons why I think this is about the best TBS in only 15 years of strategy gaming:

The leadership system. This is genius. Instead of there being weak and strong units like in most games, the leadership systems means that pretty much any unit is viable throughout the game. Wonderful. Black Dragons are probably the 'best' unit overall but are you going to use them with their 2500 leadership? Or do you want to go for Lake Fairies? Or Evil Beholders?

Level design (at the strategic, not battle level) This is especially true in Darion, which is just put together in such a way as to draw you into the game. While this game doesn't have an interesting story, it does lure you with the quest design. I also love the way that enemies move on the strategic view, unlike in Disciples II.

Thirdly, the battle system. I'm with sector on this. I can't remember a more enjoyable and rewarding battle system in a game. The grid is very small (usually) but this makes it like chess. This is a real STRATEGY game.

Oh, and why does everything have to be compared to HOMM 3 anyway? If I loved that game, and then someone made a successful homage to it many years later, I would be ecstatic. I'm still waiting for a real spiritual successor to XCOM, and Master of Orion 2 (i.e. not MOO3, or Galciv 1/2), and Jagged Alliance 2.

[wolfing]

HOMM V is good and expansions improved it a lot. You will probably find this game not as addictive and somewhat lacking in clarity compared to KB:TL, but still it's very intelligent and interesting game. Same applies to HOMM 3.

I agree. HOMM V is really good. As good as KB in many aspects, yet different so I do recommend both games entirely (HOMM V I believe is more difficult than KB and much more replayable)

[Metathron]

I'm still waiting for a real spiritual successor to XCOM, and Master of Orion 2 (i.e. not MOO3, or Galciv 1/2), and Jagged Alliance 2.

You mean Jagged Alliance 3, right? And I'm sure you know it should be released any day now, right? So no need to wax nostalgic about that! :-P

Oh yeah, if you're thinking of getting HoMM V, take my advice and just skip the vanilla game and the first addon The Farmers of Hate, err The Hammers of Fate, and just go straight through to the standalone expansion Tribes of the East, which has all the other two have and lots more. The only thing not featured in TotE are the campaigns from the first two, but there is a (legal) mod that lets you play the original and first addon campaigns under TotE, complete with all the cutscenes and what have you, so there's really no reason to get the first two.

My favourite games of all time are HoMM II and IV. I only moderately liked V, but with TotE I grew to love it as much as the other two.

Anyhoo, IMHO its gameplay is superior to HoMM III. Long story short, I think you'd really like this game. :grin:

[Zhuangzi]

You mean Jagged Alliance 3, right? And I'm sure you know it should be released any day now, right? So no need to wax nostalgic about that! :-P

Oh yeah, if you're thinking of getting HoMM V, take my advice and just skip the vanilla game and the first addon The Farmers of Hate, err The Hammers of Fate, and just go straight through to the standalone expansion Tribes of the East, which has all the other two have and lots more. The only thing not featured in TotE are the campaigns from the first two, but there is a (legal) mod that lets you play the original and first addon campaigns under TotE, complete with all the cutscenes and what have you, so there's really no reason to get the first two.

My favourite games of all time are HoMM II and IV. I only moderately liked V, but with TotE I grew to love it as much as the other two.

Anyhoo, IMHO its gameplay is superior to HoMM III. Long story short, I think you'd really like this game. :grin:

Any day now? I thought it had been pushed back to 2009 and maybe never? I have watched the gameplay video from last year, and there's been nothing new since then. :confused:

[Smash]

I have to admit I laughed when I read this, but then I felt a little bad for laughing. A little. :-P

Anyway, it's been quite awhile since I played HoMM 3 and obviously my memory is a little hazy. I honestly don't remember them implementing recursive waiting but it could very well be true. So I'm just going to have to go back to my "gut feeling". I remember HoMM 3 battles being largely about attrition and not very much about strategy. Basically every time you were in a battle with a non-trivial opponent, you were going to lose some of your army no matter how good you were at the game. You might lose a little more or a little less, but you were always going to lose some units just because your opponent had an army of a certain size.
It is same like in KB:L try to beat this game with no losses without resurrection. Both game has same amount of strategy on the battlefield. Good Luck. Btw you really need to refresh your memory :).

This makes sense in the scope of HoMM because you can buy new units every week and the game is primarily about resource management, not tactical combat. But that's not the focus of KB at all. I like that if you really take the time to think things out, you can pull an Alexander the Great or Sun Tzu type of overwhelming victory. It's the same concept that makes the Total War games great. You don't get that in HoMM at all.

This is very untrue. You can buy new troops every weak but so can your opponent if you take during encounters bigger losses than opponent you are putting him in advantage. In KB:L you can always rebuy your army to full leadership potential after lost with easy as long you have money, in homm even if you have money you cannot buy more than you get per weak this force player to play very carefully as every soldier is crucial.

Btw. I played shogun and medieval and this game are not as great, truly there tactical and strategy potential is a joke, my friend show me once how easy beat opponent, just make army full of your best melee warriors put them in falanga (make one long line) and just move them to the other end of map when they engage with enemy you can just close left and right flank. Medieval i finished using just vikings, sometimes winnings fights with 1:10 army size proportions. I can post screens if needed :). I lost my interest with this series as i found no strategy on battlefield in this games so i don't know if medieval 2 is somehow better.

The other thing that bothered me in HoMM (and this has no comparison to KB) is that the enemy heroes could just run around willy nilly and sometimes you couldn't catch them. I remember being in a protracted battle with an AI the same size as me across a huge wide open continent. His heroes were just a tiny bit faster than mine, so I could never catch them. He'd always just run around stealing my weekly resources, or putting himself in a position where he could attack 1 of 2 castles, and I had to choose which one to defend. Then he'd always take the other one, and I'd take it back and crush him, but lose about a week's worth of units doing it. He'd buy his hero back from the inn and we'd do it again.

This is irritating but well this is part of game ;), to catch up enemy you need
some of this things: logistic, pathfinder, spells: dimension doors, town portal, artifacts increasing movements etc.

The whole thing was frustrating and pointless and due to the fact that no matter how skilled I was, I was going to lose half my army taking back my castle, I could never get out of that stupid cycle. I eventually just quit. That is the sour taste that sticks with me from HoMM and why I stopped playing. It's not a game about strategic combat like KB is.
You mean this game is not as easy as KB:L is because ai is not that dump? I agree.
Talking that homm3 do not involve strategy combat is... lol?
No offense but i beat both homm 3 and disciples 2 on highest possible difficult mode so well i know what i am talking about :).

Thirdly, the battle system. I'm with sector on this. I can't remember a more enjoyable and rewarding battle system in a game. The grid is very small (usually) but this makes it like chess. This is a real STRATEGY game.

This screens are for you :).

[jokebook]

Eh, no, he did provide an excellent answer to your question. You are just being a douchebag.

winner

And if you love HOMM3 so much, just play it...we get how YOUR best game ever is better than King's Bounty, we simply don't agree, me included. You kind of remind me of....well me after I had been playing Starcraft Brood War for....O..... eternity. Nothing would EVER live up to it. I finally allowed myself to like another RTS and found now that I absolutely love it (Company of Heroes). Try to enjoy the game for what it is, and not compare it to your beloved HOMM3 and you may actually find some things you like more and enjoy the game you already bought. If not, well, go play your game we'll play ours and you can keep the TT over on the HOMM forums.

[Zhuangzi]

Actually HOMM V 3.1 (Tribes of the EAST - ToE) is all in one pack - it contains the self-sufficient original + 1st datadisk (dwarves) and second datadisk (ToE) - I think its called alone standing :) - and it is really cheap nowdays, so don't be confused by some "special editions" where you can get some "silver" toys (unless you really wants these toys).

Alos HOMM V 3.1 ToE has many MOD's so you can be sure the fun is 120% of the thrice patched bug-less original (3.1).

Homm V is best online - another reason buying it. (You should be prepared that the scenario becomes very hard very soon, even if playing easy diff -> this is because the maps contain many "traps" and quick save/load will be a must - but as it has map generator and really cool map editor and many many maps for download from fans - hundreds hours of fun goes for sure...

For anyone who has to decide between HOMM V or KB - choose KB (or even better, wait for armored pricness - it will support 3-D googles)

Thanks for that info, Gatts. I just went out and got a copy of Tribes of the East cheaply, so I am about to play HOMM for the first time. When I load it up it says its version 3.0. So I need a patch that lets me play the original game + first expansion, correct?

EDIT: Okay I am downloading the 3.1 patch (120 mb) but where can I find this mod for the original campaigns? Is it going to be a massive download? Do I need to bother with the original campaign at all or can I dive straight into ToE?

Sorry for the off-topic, mods. We could use an off topic forum to discuss similar games etc. :)

[sector24]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. You obviously have very strong feelings concerning the games you like and it doesn't really matter what anyone says.

[MajorS]

You mean this game is not as easy as KB:L is because ai is not that dump? I agree.
Talking that homm3 do not involve strategy combat is... lol?
No offense but i beat both homm 3 and disciples 2 on highest possible difficult mode so well i know what i am talking about :).


So did i and it doesnt make either opinion more credible. Disciples was a joke (difficulty wise not fun wise :D) and first time i touched HoMM3 after a couple years again i remembered what i didnt like. All the boring cleaning of huge Maps and the fact that low level units quickly become obsolete. I actually think that HoMM 2 was a better game than 3 as far as balance was concerned.

And after all this is Kings Bounty the Legend not HoMM(3) the Legend. So your comparison doesnt make much sense. Both are good games and i enjoyed KB like no game in a couple years. And honestly no HoMM game had an impressive AI either. And noone asks you to pick just one game. You can actually have both on your Harddrive and play them :rolleyes:

[Metroplex]

This is another 'The older is better than the newer game' thread, well sometimes that is true but not always, take Diablo 1 and 2, Titan Quest beats them both hands down 100% easy, in fact seeing screens of Diablo 3 make me think Titan Quest still looks better and would play better too possibly.
I like King's Bounty, but then again developers can't please everyone.:grin:

[it-ogo]

First some very general statements. Usually we don't really know why do we like a game. I can say (suppose) why HOMM V is bad: small number of castles killed the strategy and new battle mechanics killed tactics. But I can not say why HOMM IV is bad. It has many improvements which are very nice by itself. A fraction system, magic system, hero promotion system, battle system in particular were very nice with few minor faults. But overall gameplay was much worse then in HOMM III. I don't really know why.

Second, my position towards Disciples 2: I strongly appreciate its style-atmosphere-art and storyline, but the gameplay for me was slightly too boring. I did not finish expansion campaigns.

Then about KB:L. It has lesser potential and replayability then HOMM III mainly because of absense of random generated games and limited modding possibilities. It's too early to compare campaigns as KB:L expansions are to be made. But the battle system is better then in HOMM III. How do I mark it: a hardcore player have longer way to perfection. :) Many may have a pleasure of playing but few can make something like "no losses on impossible". So you are always have a way to become better tactician and strategist. It was not so realy in HOMM III IMHO - the cap of perfection was much lower.

And I really like the the concept of rune-sphere system of hero promotions (as well as its concrete implementation). I think it is the first system of that kind in gaming but I know analogies in the area of sensorics. That is what really can provide flexibility and specificity in the same time - that means great variaty of viable pathways and good adaptation mechanism.

It is hard to compare tactics in KB-HOMM with XCOM-Jagged Alliance. The latter have much bigger and diverse arenas while the former have developed magic system and those make different kinds of tactical systems. Now I don't see the way to combine it successfully. Maybe AD&D gives something intermediate.

[Metathron]

@Zhuangzi

About JA3, I read some rumours on a gaming site, and GameSpot has it listed for Q4 2008...But mostly it was just a flippant comment.

As for the HoMM V campaigns: http://www.heroes-fr.com/en/original_campaigns.php

Have fun!

[Smash]

First i knew it will end this way with someone posting "go back to homm". Blah i will n/c his iq.
Remind how it started because someone posted that kb has different battle mode that homm so i just clear it that is untrue, now when we know it we can go back to topic?
KB:L give me feeling of low budged game, they just copy-paste nearly everything and want money for it?

So did i and it doesnt make either opinion more credible. Disciples was a joke (difficulty wise not fun wise :D) and first time i touched HoMM3 after a couple years again i remembered what i didnt like. All the boring cleaning of huge Maps and the fact that low level units quickly become obsolete. I actually think that HoMM 2 was a better game than 3 as far as balance was concerned.

And after all this is Kings Bounty the Legend not HoMM(3) the Legend. So your comparison doesnt make much sense. Both are good games and i enjoyed KB like no game in a couple years. And honestly no HoMM game had an impressive AI either. And noone asks you to pick just one game. You can actually have both on your Harddrive and play them :rolleyes:

And i have both on my hard drive :D. As i stated above this topic is about what you dislike in kb:l. Leave homm3 alone, its for TBS what Starcraft is for RTS, 10y and no one can beat it.


About d2 ai i know it was easy because of flaws in ai design on adventure mode but ai in battle mode even when fight there maybe looks simple (it's fake expression) ai is still 10x better that this in kb. :(. Campaign was easy but if you play skirmish with no save, no load rule it was even interesting :).

Ok guys let's end this Off Topic.

[Wenla]

I don't see KB as a strategy game but as a tactical (battle) game. My opinion is not (negative) critic, I like this game (IMHO best in HoMM is II).

Just my 2 cents...

Wenla

[Dorkus]

I don't agree with most of these criticisms, HOWEVER, the talent tree is sort of a waste of time. THe mage tree is the only one that has any game changing abilities.

[Zhuangzi]

@Zhuangzi

About JA3, I read some rumours on a gaming site, and GameSpot has it listed for Q4 2008...But mostly it was just a flippant comment.

As for the HoMM V campaigns: http://www.heroes-fr.com/en/original_campaigns.php

Have fun!

Thanks very much for that. I paid Aus $25 for Tribes of the East (which is 1/4 what games cost when they come out here), and now with the mod I have three whole campaigns to play. :cool:

So far it seems like a cross between Disciples 2 and KB:TL. Graphics are far inferior to KB:TL though. Combat seems less interesting, but I can see that there will be some castle and resource management in the manner of Disciples 2. I still think KB:TL is the better game (so far) but this will keep me busy for a while. I will be on the lookout for the HOMM 3/4 Complete DVD too. So cheers to those who helped. :cool:

[Roman]

KB:L is great, but the Tribes of the East is a great game too and it can be played in multiplayer mode. You won't regret buying it.

There is a LOT of depth to the Tribes of the East. You can play the game at many levels of skill and there are a large number of different viable strategies at different levels of play and depending on what faction you chose.

HOMM 3 was great too - it was a classic, but it is a bit dated now - I think you are better off with HOMM 5 Tribes of the East now. Indeed, HOMM 5 is in many respects a 'remake' of HOMM 3, just like KB:L is a 'remake' of KB. HOMM 4, however, was not good at all and not in the spirit of the rest of the series.

[Zhuangzi]

Thanks. I played the first mission of ToE and thought it was great fun. Then I thought I'd better start on the original campaign and the first three missions were deadly boring (and very easy, even on Hard difficulty). So I think I will go back to ToE. :-P

[Roman]

I thought even the original HOMM V was a respectable game, but they have really improved on it with Tribes of the East. I have actually played through the entire HOMM V campaign (but I have not played the HoF and TotE campaigns, so I cannot really comment on those), but the campaigns are really not the strong point of the series at all- they cannot compare to KB:L in that regard. Do not be deceived by the apparent ease of the HOMM B campaign at the beginning though - it can get pretty tough later on (of course, once you know the tricks of the game, it gets easier, just like KB:L). Not in the first campaign though for sure, but there are six campaigns and they do get progressively more difficult.

The main attractions for me, however, are the various single player scenarios, the random map generator and especially the multiplayer possibilities. I play Tribes of the East for the hot seat multiplayer. It is a family game for me - I play it with my sister and cousins when we meet up over the holidays!

It really is a good game and it is, in fact, through hanging out on some HOMM V/TotE boards that I found out about KB:L. KB:L received a very positive reception there, which is not surprising, given the fact that the games share the same ultimate roots. :)

[Wenla]

There are also tons of maps from various players on the net. Some of those are really good, so also I, who don't play multiplayer, can find new challenges.

Wenla

[Zhuangzi]

I thought even the original HOMM V was a respectable game, but they have really improved on it with Tribes of the East. I have actually played through the entire HOMM V campaign (but I have not played the HoF and TotE campaigns, so I cannot really comment on those), but the campaigns are really not the strong point of the series at all- they cannot compare to KB:L in that regard. Do not be deceived by the apparent ease of the HOMM B campaign at the beginning though - it can get pretty tough later on (of course, once you know the tricks of the game, it gets easier, just like KB:L). Not in the first campaign though for sure, but there are six campaigns and they do get progressively more difficult.

The main attractions for me, however, are the various single player scenarios, the random map generator and especially the multiplayer possibilities. I play Tribes of the East for the hot seat multiplayer. It is a family game for me - I play it with my sister and cousins when we meet up over the holidays!

It really is a good game and it is, in fact, through hanging out on some HOMM V/TotE boards that I found out about KB:L. KB:L received a very positive reception there, which is not surprising, given the fact that the games share the same ultimate roots. :)

It's funny because the first campaign in HOMM V is just absurdly easy, even on Hard. It's so boring; you just have to slog through it.

On the other hand, the Tribes of the East campaign is a real challenge for me right now on Medium difficulty. I just played the second mission, Last Soul Standing, and I had a LOT of fun. I won by the skin of my teeth. It's a timed mission and I reached the objective on the last possible day, and then died three times trying to defeat the castle guards (I am still learning this game :rolleyes:) On my fourth try I won with 2 archers and 5 zombies left. What fun I had! So I will try to forget about the HOMM V campaigns and see how far I can get with ToE. :cool:

[kennec]

HOMM V shit game played it 2 days then i unsintalled it

HOMM 4 more of the same lostthe edge and to few upgrades, to ,many spells and hero as avatar on battlefield was imba

HOMM 3 best in serie, played hotseats and local networks with 4-5 computers and had tournaments and 2v2 and 3v3s superb game , one of the best

HOMM 2 huge upgrade, several dragons sorts and stuff, played it for hours and hours and days

HOMM 1 very fun game remember installing it with several floppy discs on my computer and thought it was a huge game

KBL : fun game, was realy hooked for weaks, some things i didnt like was that random mobs to buy and unable to complete quests sometimes, classes wherent balanced.

[Metathron]

The first HoMM V campaign (haven/knight) is sort of a tutorial, that's why it's easy; the last missions (not to mention the campaigns that follow) do become more challenging though, so you shouldn't give up on it.

[Roman]

It's funny because the first campaign in HOMM V is just absurdly easy, even on Hard. It's so boring; you just have to slog through it.

The original HOMM V (without the expansions) has 6 campaigns, one for each race (I assume the 2 extra races added get their own campaigns in their expansions), which are interconnected story-wise. All of the missions in the first campaign are sort of a tutorial for players who have never played the series before. You coming from the related KB:L gives you an advantage. The later campaigns do get tougher, but that said, many players have complained that the campaign itself is pretty uninspired tougher or not.

On the other hand, the Tribes of the East campaign is a real challenge for me right now on Medium difficulty. I just played the second mission, Last Soul Standing, and I had a LOT of fun. I won by the skin of my teeth. It's a timed mission and I reached the objective on the last possible day, and then died three times trying to defeat the castle guards (I am still learning this game :rolleyes:) On my fourth try I won with 2 archers and 5 zombies left. What fun I had! So I will try to forget about the HOMM V campaigns and see how far I can get with ToE. :cool:

Yeah! I love the battles when you just barely win against a superior army! I have not played it, but the TotE campaign, according to most players, is a huge improvement over the original campaigns. Some reviewers, however, actually marked ToTE's scores down for the game being too difficult!

In any case, the overarching difference between KB:L and HOMM (any game in the series) is that HOMM has another strategic layer, where you capture mines, cities and build up/level your cities, which then produce your units. The maximum level of units themselves is level 7, which is approximately equivalent to level 5 units in KB:L.

The skill system in HOMM V is the best in the series (much better even than in HOMM 3 - which was the 'classic' HOMM game for many, myself included) and is truly great.

There are 4 primary ability scores. Attack and Defense functions similarly to the same stats in KB:L. Spellpower is similar to Intellect in KB:L and Knowledge determines the amount of Mana the hero gets.

There are 12 basic universal skills that a hero can learn and each has three levels. Orcs in TotE, however, add sort of 4 more pseudo-skills, as they cannot learn the magic skills, but instead have 4 equivalent anti-magic skills. Your hero only has slots for 5 basic skills, however, so you have to chose carefully what skills you want to learn depending on the type of hero you are building. The probability of what skills get offered to you at level-up depends on the class of your hero (each faction's heroes belong to a different class), but in theory all heroes (except Orcs) can learn any 5 of the basic universal skills.

On top of the basic universal skills, all factions's heroes also get one racial skill (also at three levels of expertise [plus one extra {4th} level with special artifacts]). This is unique to the race in question.

The basic skills and the racial skills open up 'perks'. The perks offered depend on the combination of skills and other perks you select. There are a large number of them and not all factions' heroes can access all of them. Each hero has 3 slots for perks for each skill.

The right combination of skills and perks can open up access to an 'ultimate' ability that is really powerful and differs by race, but the hero has to be high level to get that.

On top of the above, each hero also has a unique specialty ability of his own.

The skill system can get very deep! It is really good once you get the hang of it!

[Smash]

One thing i miss in homm5 there is no more to choose heroes of might and magic, now is magic or might depend castle/side you pick up. I would really want to play necropolis as Death Knight once again :(.

[Ish]

I have to admit I laughed when I read this, but then I felt a little bad for laughing. A little. :-P

Anyway, it's been quite awhile since I played HoMM 3 and obviously my memory is a little hazy. I honestly don't remember them implementing recursive waiting but it could very well be true. So I'm just going to have to go back to my "gut feeling". I remember HoMM 3 battles being largely about attrition and not very much about strategy. Basically every time you were in a battle with a non-trivial opponent, you were going to lose some of your army no matter how good you were at the game. You might lose a little more or a little less, but you were always going to lose some units just because your opponent had an army of a certain size.

This makes sense in the scope of HoMM because you can buy new units every week and the game is primarily about resource management, not tactical combat. But that's not the focus of KB at all. I like that if you really take the time to think things out, you can pull an Alexander the Great or Sun Tzu type of overwhelming victory. It's the same concept that makes the Total War games great. You don't get that in HoMM at all.

The other thing that bothered me in HoMM (and this has no comparison to KB) is that the enemy heroes could just run around willy nilly and sometimes you couldn't catch them. I remember being in a protracted battle with an AI the same size as me across a huge wide open continent. His heroes were just a tiny bit faster than mine, so I could never catch them. He'd always just run around stealing my weekly resources, or putting himself in a position where he could attack 1 of 2 castles, and I had to choose which one to defend. Then he'd always take the other one, and I'd take it back and crush him, but lose about a week's worth of units doing it. He'd buy his hero back from the inn and we'd do it again.

The whole thing was frustrating and pointless and due to the fact that no matter how skilled I was, I was going to lose half my army taking back my castle, I could never get out of that stupid cycle. I eventually just quit. That is the sour taste that sticks with me from HoMM and why I stopped playing. It's not a game about strategic combat like KB is.



Having played a huge amount of HOMM I dont find this to be the case at all... the main factor in having large/small losses is obviously your hero, and there are any number of ways to achieve this.

You could have chosen logistics + pathfinding to increase your movement, and also only have fast troops on your hero which increases his movement too.

You only attack the enemy if you have something significant to gain from it, and castles provide a large advantage, so if the enemy is hell bent on attacking you - you can shack up in your castle and improve your chances of an overwhelming victory.


I think if you played the heroes games a bit more you would find that

[Ish]

First some very general statements. Usually we don't really know why do we like a game. I can say (suppose) why HOMM V is bad: small number of castles killed the strategy and new battle mechanics killed tactics. But I can not say why HOMM IV is bad. It has many improvements which are very nice by itself. A fraction system, magic system, hero promotion system, battle system in particular were very nice with few minor faults. But overall gameplay was much worse then in HOMM III. I don't really know why.

Second, my position towards Disciples 2: I strongly appreciate its style-atmosphere-art and storyline, but the gameplay for me was slightly too boring. I did not finish expansion campaigns.

Then about KB:L. It has lesser potential and replayability then HOMM III mainly because of absense of random generated games and limited modding possibilities. It's too early to compare campaigns as KB:L expansions are to be made. But the battle system is better then in HOMM III. How do I mark it: a hardcore player have longer way to perfection. :) Many may have a pleasure of playing but few can make something like "no losses on impossible". So you are always have a way to become better tactician and strategist. It was not so realy in HOMM III IMHO - the cap of perfection was much lower.

And I really like the the concept of rune-sphere system of hero promotions (as well as its concrete implementation). I think it is the first system of that kind in gaming but I know analogies in the area of sensorics. That is what really can provide flexibility and specificity in the same time - that means great variaty of viable pathways and good adaptation mechanism.

It is hard to compare tactics in KB-HOMM with XCOM-Jagged Alliance. The latter have much bigger and diverse arenas while the former have developed magic system and those make different kinds of tactical systems. Now I don't see the way to combine it successfully. Maybe AD&D gives something intermediate.

I would argue otherwise based off playing heroes 3 and 5 extensively online.

When you play against the computer you play at a level to achieve what your goal is, whether it's to beat the game on impossible or shortest amount of days.

In HOMM 3 & 5 online you have to play against people with hundreds of games under their belt, with large variation in strategies due to difference races, artifacts and tactical approaches.

HOMM has both tactical and strategic considerations, where as KB is more about exploiting very effective strategies, units and artifacts once you discover them.


I like both games for different things, KB is fun single player, HOMM is great in multiplayer if you have an experienced opponent.

I'm still playing through my first game of KB, and (probably due to my HOMM experience) am not having much difficulty on impossible with a paladin.

Anyway both are great games!

[Ish]

It's funny because the first campaign in HOMM V is just absurdly easy, even on Hard. It's so boring; you just have to slog through it.

On the other hand, the Tribes of the East campaign is a real challenge for me right now on Medium difficulty. I just played the second mission, Last Soul Standing, and I had a LOT of fun. I won by the skin of my teeth. It's a timed mission and I reached the objective on the last possible day, and then died three times trying to defeat the castle guards (I am still learning this game :rolleyes:) On my fourth try I won with 2 archers and 5 zombies left. What fun I had! So I will try to forget about the HOMM V campaigns and see how far I can get with ToE. :cool:

I only played the campaigns to prepare me for online play. If you can complete all the camgaigns on the hardest difficulty then you will be an above average player online, although it partly requires a different skillset as online play is about rapid expansion and striking first, where as in the campaigns.. even on the hardest difficulty often you can sit back and grow somewhat passively.

An aggresive style of play is better against humans however.

[Smash]

Hmm... I still remember mission from campaign in Shadow of Death when you starting with randomized hero (yog?) and one castle (Stronghold - aka the weakest) against computer with something like 5-6 necropolis (aka the strongest) on highest possible difficulty. Man when i met his army his only vampire stack could beat my whole army easy oO. That all what i can say about passive play :) next game i rush him and start taking his castles while running away from his main hero (cat and mice play), it was very tiring, long and stressful, i won and go back to scenarios (aka skirmishes) for more enjoyable play :).

[MajorS]

it was very tiring, long and stressful, i won and go back to scenarios (aka skirmishes) for more enjoyable play :).

Thats why i like KB so much, its pace is so much faster than any HoMM. The older i got the more impatient i became ;) Dont have time to grind/waste anymore. I just installed HoMM V again just to give it a try but im not even having half as much fun as KB. I dont care much about AI, strategy etc anymore. I just play for fun :D

[Ish]

Thats why i like KB so much, its pace is so much faster than any HoMM. The older i got the more impatient i became ;) Dont have time to grind/waste anymore. I just installed HoMM V again just to give it a try but im not even having half as much fun as KB. I dont care much about AI, strategy etc anymore. I just play for fun :D

For sure if you are playing single player KB is more fun than HOMM5, partly due to the rediculous story in heroes 5

Try an online game vs someone from TOH (which is a group that holds tournaments etc) or other experienced player, and it will be lots of fun.