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Affliction
11-14-2008, 02:03 PM
Hello,

I just finished the game on Normal difficulty, playing Warrior. I had great fun. My army consisted of Hunters, Knights, Horsemen, Guardsmen and Emerald Dragons. Overall, I didn't have much trouble defeating even "overpowering" armies. I found that I had enough runes to spend on almost all skills I wanted (everything but Dark Commander in Might tree, extra leadership, xp, reserves and some more in Mind, lvl 3 Order and Distortion + some more in Magic tree). I really enjoyed Spirits of Rage - at the end of game, Stone guy (forgot his name) was lvl 30 and my favorite, Death, was lvl 28.

Now I'm considering playing a Paladin on Hard and one thing that I really wanted was an undead army, especially considering Dark Commander seems like one of the most powerful talents. Now, I realize Skeleton Archers are lvl 1 units and as such, very prone easy to die. I also probably wouldn't use Bone Dragons, but some other (Emerald are really cool because of that mana drain spell). Ghosts seem an ok unit and Dark Knights even more so. So, would it be viable at all to invest into Dark Commander simply because of these few units?

If we neglect all that, what are generally good talents for paladin class?

Thank you for your time!

Metathron
11-14-2008, 02:15 PM
In general, I think the Mind tree is pretty stinky, though the higher the difficulty, the more important all of those money perks and whatnot become.

I also had loads of fun with warrior on normal. After I finished that, I started a new game with a paladin, but his skill tree coupled with a wish to play the mage made me quit that, so now I'm a level 9 mage. :)

kadrzys
11-14-2008, 09:42 PM
I also considered playing Paladin on Hard after my current Normal with Warrior but I think Mage would be more fun if lucky with +leadership items. I'm still considering playing Paladin with edited Hero.txt and Higher Magic skill avaible for him but I afraid he'll become overpowered in late game with this skill.

Zhuangzi
11-14-2008, 09:46 PM
Well, the only challenge left for me is Impossible Paladin, so I might try that one soon.

Advantages of Paladin:

He gets Resurrection straight away (VERY useful)
Mind tree isn't that bad (especially the skill that gives Might and Magic runes).
If he gets Sprites/Lake Fairies after the tutorial, you can stash them in a castle until you pick up Sacrifice/Anga's Ruby.

Mage is definitely better (esp Higher Magic) but I think that Paladin is strong too. The Mind tree might seem crappy but the further the game goes, the better the Paladin will do. :cool:

Metathron
11-14-2008, 09:48 PM
When could a paladin be expected to be able to learn Higher Magic? I'm asking because of the huge magic rune prerequisite for this skill (and others before it), and since the paladin mostly gets mind runes.

Zhuangzi
11-14-2008, 09:52 PM
Higher Magic is a unique skill for Mages, so you won't be getting it unless you mod the game. :rolleyes:

But I would think the Paladin would really struggle to get it even when modded. Depending on how much money you have, you could buy runes from the castle in Taron Mines.

Affliction
11-18-2008, 03:49 PM
Btw, Paladin has their unique talent (Holy Anger) that gives additional Attack versus Undead and Demons, but it mentions something else. This talent doesn't give my own Undead and Demon troops a bonus against enemy demons and undead?

Smash
11-18-2008, 04:56 PM
Yes, that's why for my Arthas who is commanding only undead army i pick up mage class not paladin as i should ;).

Affliction
11-18-2008, 06:05 PM
Dammit, now my whole "Dark Paladin" concept has been blown away.

Gatts
11-19-2008, 02:29 PM
Just small note towards the undead army planning:

Dark Kniths are fine - but as their movement is very limited - they end much often as targets themselves (enemy AI considers them dangerous and tries to remove them ASAP)

I tried all undead combinations:

at the early beginning you can pick up gosts in the swamp cementry - ghosts can raise their numbers above the starting number - so if you know how to use them - you will always have enough of them (and have nice PHY resistance)

Later on I tried necromancers - was huge dissapointment, even as they have area damage and have huge initiative...

to make the story short - I had:
1. Dark Knights: only as back up unit, for the purpose of higher morale for undead.
2., 3. Red and Blue Vamipires (if lucky - you can purchase vampire bats, you don't need to transform them in battle)
4. Bone Dragons (a lot of HP, Surrounding poison attack, flying)
5. Emerald Dragon (no retaliation grab attack, mana spring attack, flying)
backup 1. Emerald Dragons (sacrifice does not work on them... duf)
backup 2. Free - any other units of mine I was able to re-stock using only sacrifice (used on vamps - who replenished by they ability and the other stack raised by sacrifice -> win win, no loss)

Why necros are not valuable ?: for their area atack - vamps are most effective when they attack and keep just near enemy stacks - using necros attack would damage your vamps.

Later on are ghosts very ugly - very easlily they can go from "not controlable" to "aggressive" and that you don't want :P

skel archers, skells, zombies are good only at the beginning -> when I wanted to enjoy my "undead commander" skills, but they are useless later on... even if skel archers do great damage, they really die so easily :)

Gatts
11-19-2008, 02:57 PM
Dammit, now my whole "Dark Paladin" concept has been blown away.

I wouldn't be so easily discouraged on your place - dark army is pretty much self sustaining - no matter for which hero you play.
And palladin with his rich variety of skills and the option of having more XP / Money at the soonest of the game he has his own positive aura for even undead army.

Amidamaru86
01-30-2009, 09:24 AM
Just small note towards the undead army planning:

...

skel archers, skells, zombies are good only at the beginning -> when I wanted to enjoy my "undead commander" skills, but they are useless later on... even if skel archers do great damage, they really die so easily :)

Gatts... dont give noobish advices -> Skeleton Archers are probably the best unit in the game.

Impossible screenshot (although warrior here, but pala has the same or even better cause more mana and no chaos magic needed):
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/231/image1cv0.jpg

As a tip for palas do like so: 1 fast initiative tank (horseman are quite good), send them straight away into the center of the batte and let them tank, archers rape other units, then cast timeback/repeat actions = 0 losses

maltz
01-31-2009, 09:27 PM
After playing a Warrior on normal, I am playing Paladin on hard now. Here are my inputs:

(1) Invest just 1 level in all Mind skills, and go straight for the "Upgrade Priest to Inquisitor" skill ASAP. Now you can effectively cut down losses in battle. You should be able to get the skill just before the Freedom Islands.

(2) Depending on your luck on spells/units, things can vary a lot. General battle strategy is the same - you don't want to get into contact with the enemy until they have been severely weakened. You can do this buy:

- Sleem: Evil Shoal / Poison Rain (very good early-mid game esp. when combined with distractions: Hyptonized enemy unit, Totem, etc.)
- Lina: Ice Ball / Ice Thron (very good since the AI tends to walk around, wasting terms)
- Trap: The best spell for the weaklings. Esp. in a single-player game, you can always load the game and perfectly predict what the AI is going to do next. (grin)
- Hyptonize is the best battle-opener spell.

Elwin
03-28-2009, 03:53 PM
After finisging my mage i kinda think about starting paladin i think on hard maybe on iimpossible and so i come up with questions:

What are strenghts of paladin ? how should I build him to use him best ( currently not talking about troop selections)?
Since its class between warrior and mage it could use some offensive spell but on the other hand he will never reach mage power so if i focus on offensive it gonna end on weak mage and will be weak. On the other hand if do not use offensive spell it will be warrior but with less leadership and lesser rage gain, Am i right?Or just use crowd controll and buff spells but since his runic stone it will be faster to get them than warrior , and maybe have a bit more mana?
Thats how i think just looking in theory would like to know what expierenced players think, especialy those who played all classes

Vulture
03-28-2009, 06:51 PM
Although I am not the experienced player you will want to give his $0.02 here at least I can give you an insight on the paladin.

The paladin tries to impersonate the mage as well as the warrior. As for the mage he totally fails. No higher magic, no mage, period. He can accumulate quite a bit of intellect and damage spells do work until mid-game but its the end of the line. He doesn't fail that much as a warrior. Leadership is not so much decreased in comparison to spell power and 50% castings per turn. So it's not that much of a big deal.

You've already gotten it right. Rune Stone in fact IS the key to this class improving his wannabe mage/warrior skills. You can in fact reach the final tier of all three trees before ~20 with it which gives you a lot of alternatives to build your character on. Ever thought of full Onslaught+Dark Commander and Destroyer (theoretically of course, for it makes no sense) AND Rune Stone ? You thought right. It's doable, with ease. But as I said, Destroyer is as wrong as can be. But feels good to know you could ^^

Especially on hard/impossible you have to rely on army builds viable regardless of what items/spells you can get randomly. That's where tolerance comes into the game. If nothing works out with "pewpew lazergunz"-Items that rule the game you still can go with undeads and demons along with anything you want. It's not a talent you aim for primarily but later on you don't know where to put mind runes anyway...

Having the Might and Magic talent trees accessible makes very much up for the lesser leadership/lvl offered on lvl ups. What it doesn't compensate is the rage gain that is in fact remarkably lower than on the warrior and not too much better than with the mage. You have to think of alternatives and rage decrease lvl up choices on spirits is ALWAYS the right choice. But you will know that from your mage.

Prepare for a change, a paladin is so nothing like the mage. At least from my point of view the paladin immitates the warrior remarkably better than the mage. 60ldr/lvl vs 50ldr/lvl is by far less of a penalty than 1 instead of 2 casts per turn. This must be clear to everyone rolling a paladin ^^

Nevertheless, the paladin is a KB:TL hero like the others to. Basic rules like: "go for atk and int, hope on good luck with spells (fortunately ressurection is provided :> ) and items and try to find the best setup you can get at your stage" apply to him as well as to the other classes.

Sidemarks: especially on impossible the gold talents finally make (minor, but not neglectable) sense. As you must pick them anyway to get to Rune Stone and Tolerance and they're cheap. Holy Anger can do his part since it's cheap as well and you have tons of mind runes to spare once Rune Stone is maxed.

dukenukem
03-30-2009, 09:29 AM
easly i can say in the game best hero character is paladin.Before in my impossible game i tried to beat general karador with mage but i could not.With Paladin via holy anger ability and with high defence i beated him very easly three times.

And in my impossible warrior game in the beginning of the game i could not collect enough money.With paladin due to his some ability i can sell and buy 100% value of artifacts and scrolls.So game very easy and delicious with paladin for me...

Elwin
03-30-2009, 11:07 AM
As i see everyone got his own the best hero :p At the beggining i was gathering money with marauders, alotugh i was lacking it since i bought that banner with +4 def + 800 leadership for 60k very early , and screwed the quest with family, took the oldest brother causÄ™ one had phantom instead of taking 50k gem .. but i found a phantom scroll 30 min later ;/ I was mad then but didnt want to load ..

What is good moment to start investing in holy anger 2,3 ? Elinia or a bit earlier?




That's where tolerance comes into the game. If nothing works out with "pewpew lazergunz"-Items that rule the game you still can go with undeads and demons along with anything you want. It's not a talent you aim for primarily but later on you don't know where to put mind runes anyway...
as well and you have tons of mind runes to spare once Rune Stone is maxed.


about which difficulty level you say and when its that "later". Playing on hard with lvl 11 and i seriously lack mind runes, hope will get better later.

Prowlinger
04-24-2009, 07:11 PM
Paladin gets resurrection right from the get go?

I have looked for this spell and can't find how to cast it... ???

master.jimmy
07-08-2009, 02:01 PM
nah, i'm playing Paladin lev Normal + humans troops (archers, archmages, inquisitors, horseman and knights)
RESURRECTION from beginning it's insane abusable!!!
all it's too easy, i can resurrect troops very easily.
If u sees it, psichic rune are ALWAYS in all skills (psic, strenght and magic skills), they seems like Jolly rune. Paladin is the most customize character. U can do him, more similar to a fighter or a mage.
He gain more rune with his final skill.
Personally i boost him in leadership and Defense for fighting and in holy magic lev3, with resurrection and boost. I have made also a lev2 Caos magic, but now i regret this.... i only use SACRIFICE skill. With this assets red magic is useless for me.

Happy to choose paladin.
Now i'm finish the game and i'll use Mage on Hard for Next play

bmcelvan
10-02-2009, 07:04 PM
Question about undead resurrection. I'm pretty sure but wanted to double check on this...there is no way to "heal" or "resurrect" undead stacks during a battle right? The major benefit to palladin is the resurrection spell. I also heard someone say that there is a way to get 100% of a single stack of troops after battle (I'm assuming through necromancy skill tree) but I haven't been able to find that...it tells me that I can 30-40% on this. Any ideas?

Razorflame
10-03-2009, 01:58 PM
necro call doesn't work(the mage ability) if i am not mistaken

futhermore the only thing that can bring undead back is TIMEBACK


ghost and vampire bats have the ability to gain more units through their attack(a bat doesn't come above his fixed stack that was at the beginning of the battle) but a ghost can

so beware;-)

bmcelvan
10-03-2009, 07:37 PM
oh wow, so timeback brings troops back...holy shit I'm dumb...I just thought it moved the troop back to where it started in position!! haha...that is a great tool!

Razorflame
10-04-2009, 03:21 PM
time back moves the selected troop back to the beginning position of the previous turn

(with all quantities/abilities) that were in the previous turn but beware if an other unit stands on that spot u can't use it:)

BB Shockwave
10-04-2009, 05:24 PM
Paladin is perhaps the best first-game choice, as you'll get to use the "abilities" of both the main classes, enough to be effective but not enough to use them to the fullest.

You can have a pretty decent army, you can use most the Spirits of Rage's abilities (high-rage requirement ones will be harder to use, though), and you will have enough mana and intellect to implement spells in combat.

However, neither Rage nor Magic will be enough to beat the enemies on later levels - they don't do enough damage. So, do not upgrade spells like ARmaggedon or Geyser, rather, focus on spells and Rage abilities that improve your troops or hamper the enemy: POison Cloud, Ice Thorns, Glot ARmor, Magic Shackles, Resurrect, Bless, Haste, God Armor, Pygmy, Hypnotize, Defenseless, Slow...

Use these wisely in battle, and you won't have much problems with enemies!

The Paladin's racial skills make him stronger against Undead/Demons, that's pretty much all his uniqueness.