Question about TIME BACK rage power

[Jamers]

So I assumed that Time Back just warped a troop back to the POSITION that they were standing on during the previous turn (as it says in the game), and that it was basically used to stall enemy melee troops from closing in.

Then I read a thread that described it as the best rage in the game, saying that it was like a resurrection as well, bringing the troop back to its original number of units as well as changing its physical position (thus making it much more useful for friendly troops versus enemies). Can anyone confirm that this is how it works, or just describe exactly what it does? I've been improving it on level ups and I'm hoping I'm not wasting my level improvements.

Thanks in advance.

[sector24]

It is indeed the best rage skill in the game. Here's a short list of what it does:

Returns the stack to the hex that it was standing on at the beginning of the previous turn.
Restores the stack's health and # of units to what they were at the beginning of the previous turn.
Restores the stack's charges and reload times to what they were at the beginning of the previous turn.
Restores any buffs and debuffs to what they were at the beginning of the previous turn. (Including Glot's Armor, hint hint)

So an example usage of Time Back:

Turn 1
Send Griffins forward to attack a unit. Counterattack all melee units. Cast Sacrifice on the Griffins to boost one of your stacks.

Turn 2
Attack with the Griffins again. Counterattack all melee units. Cast Sacrifice on the Griffins to boost one of your stacks. Use Time Back on the Griffins.

Turn 3
Victory!

[Jamers]

Wow.
So you can basically waste them for 2 full turns and then cast it and they'll revert to when you started the battle (granted that the 2 full turns are the first of the battle)?

[sector24]

Oh, I almost forgot. If you use Time Back at the end of turn 2, you'll also get the initiative bonus from Onslaught at the beginning of turn 3 because the unit is treated as if it is turn 1 for them. This can be important for getting one more strike against black dragons, etc.

[Smash]

I couldn't describe it better, even better than griffs are specialize (Onslaught, Ironfist ) knights with circle attack, teleport them in the right place let them surround or just released circle attack, at the beginning of turn 2 use time back on knights then teleport them again and use once again circle attack with army of evil beholders, archers, elves, hunters (with telescope) it is working great.
Timeback give you a lot of tactic use while mage can leave without it is a must for warriors.

[bsctgod]

This thread elicited an evil laugh from me as I read it.

[MisterBarca]

Wow!

I thought Time Back was useless and hence didn't use/develop it at all in the last game.

I guess I will have to start a new game! :)

As an aside, so what would you not develop in the Reaper skill tree? Soul Drain? Black Hole?

[Ryastar]

It depends on your class. Mages probably shouldn't upgrade soul drain (probably only to the point where it kills 30% for 20 rage) OR black hole (potentially not even past the first upgrade, it gets really expensive pretty fast) too far, as it starts to cost too much rage for them. Warriors can more or less ignore rage drain because they will be getting plenty of rage from other sources. I can't say for Paladin, though (I've never played as one, preferring to either have awesome magic or awesome troops and not a weaker version of both).

On another note, I too ignored time back for most of first game, until I found out how amazing it is, you are not alone.

[MAXIMVS]

Wow!

I thought Time Back was useless and hence didn't use/develop it at all in the last game.

I guess I will have to start a new game! :)


Likewise!

I've just completed the game with my warrior and never used Time Back!

I'll start again now with Mage or Paladin (can't decide yet ...) :-)

[Longasc]

It is essential with Black Dragons. They only take 1-2 losses during a heavy fight, but as you cannot use sacrifice or rez on them (totally immune to magic/spells, even beneficial ones)... TIME BACK is the only way to preserve them and avoid losses.

This is not the only application. You can also use it on a unit after it unleashed a devastating attack, e.g. a Red Dragon breathing over some 4-5 units.

One of the best uses is the combo of Sacrifice + Time Back of course.


But you do not NEED to use this ability.
This game allows different ways and strategies how to tackle enemy groups, you can have different armies, different tactics, based on your class and preferences.

This, besides the beautiful graphics and funny dialogue and story, is what makes King's Bounty such a great game. It was created with a lot of love and passion, besides inheriting the strong gameplay of the old King's Bounty / HOMM series.

Really, most recent A-level games usually bore me to hell or are just overhyped, King's Bounty and Mount & Blade were definitely my favorite games of 2008/09 so far.

[Elwin]

I have recently defeated Karador and my Reaper is lvl16. I have read here how powerfull time back ability is and I would love to use it ( would make some harder fights easier, for sure with Karador )..but got 1 problem ... I had only 1 upgrade for time back since all these 15 levels ..so i can use it with units lvl 1-2 only and i do not use lower than lvl 3 ... so useless for me
And now i wonder is there anything determinining upgrades for rage spirits when u level up? Could it be that i dont get any timeback level upgrade ( got rest reduction and rage cost reduction tough) because i dont use it ? Or just i have very hard luck ? According to post on this forum its rather not normal to not have time back at higher level at this stage of game -.-

[dukenukem]

http://www.gamebanshee.com/kingsbountythelegend/skillsreaper.php

there is some information.

[Elwin]

I know that site, but its not what i am asking .. I asked whether something determines choices you got on level up ( by using it f.e)or its pure random.
As i saw vulture had lvl 16 reaper with 1-5lvl time back and me also with lvl 16 1-2 only, difference is quite big -.- Actualyt just finished game, but if I would like to start again this knowledge could be usefull

[Vulture]

You cannot influence the choice you are given on levelups in ANY way. Neither your hero's nor you Spirits'. This is in fact sometimes devastating as with your game. 1-2 Timeback in end-game is unbearable for the majority of tactics using it, yet there are ways to compensate.

Alternatives:

1. Depending on class and availability make excessive use of resurrection. If not mage, this can be tough and limit your most useful magic related tactics. You're probably already doing this. If not, do so and avoid undead in the army except for lvl 1-2 or vampires (but only on living targets)

2. Use lvl 1-2 support or melee and timeback them after using their most valuable abilities or taking heat! Dryads chain sleeping enemy stacks if the levels match are priceless. Just sleep and timeback the turn before it expires. Sprites/Lake Fairies with respective gear will dish out a hell of damage and can just be timebacked when decimated. Skeleton Archers with Dragon Arrows are one of the most devastating Unit/Spell Combo in the game. Use timeback if lost or to extend Dragon Arrow charges on them in longer fights. All those units are 1-2 and belong to the most powerful in-game. Additionally of course when timebacking, cast sacrifice on them before to bring back higher level creatures that died, like your tank unit.

3. Going without low lvl units not a good idea in general even without that timeback lvl range problem. Units of lower levels have minimum dmg ranges. Most of them do 1-3 or 2-3 damage without modifiers. Adding +1 point of dmg on them has by far a bigger effect than on units with like 30-45 ranges. Provided the leadership/dmg ratio is more or less equal you will see a +50% min dmg and +33% max dmg increase for a 2-3dmg unit whilst the higher lvl unit with 30-45 dmg receives 3%min and 2% max dmg increase. Get the point in this ? But that's not the only good point about them and it depends on having +dmg items or not. Another good point is the fact that reducing defense or even ignoring defense on high defense enemies has a massively bigger effect on low atk units in high stacks. Damage is vastly determined by atk vs defense so lower lvl units with low atk values gain more benefit through these effects. Dragon Arrows, Helplessness as prime examples.

Hope I've at least given you a minimum taste of what 1-2 units can give you especially with timeback. And unless you abuse Rage Drain, Soul Drain and Black Hole a lot already it will improve the count of your Reaper uses so more levels and good picks will come up for you :>

[Elwin]

Dear Vulture
At last answer i wanted too hear,actualy i expexcted that
Thank you for advices and long post but i already know all of that.
Also i finished the game quite easily without that :)
My love setup :
emerald dragon - mana mana nice damage hp
shaman - heal distract quite high hp - could put inquistirs here but i had only few of them in my game and sacrifice in lotd and i got used to shammys so much that i didnt think about changing them :D
hunter - ale barrel + telscopic sight
elf - ale barrel + telescopic sight
royal snakes - frog feanora + ring of snake king
and powerful spells ( playing as a mage) slaughtered every enemy ( for overpowering/impossible enemies had to play fight twice to find the best strategy to win with no loses ) without much problem ^^
I was using reaper abilities like hell just to got him lvl up , got lvl 3 timeback after beating up Karador and so started using it for royals/elves .. lvl 4 i got at last fight before haas .. lvl 5 never came .. but Haas .. armageddon armaggedon end of fight :D
IF i would like to fight him without arma i guess i would have to change setup and get rid of archers because they wont do anything when you start in the middle surrounded by so many dragons , archdemons ,ents,cyclops

[Vulture]

I'm reading about Ale Barrel like the 7th time now and still don't get it. My Ale Barrel gives +1 Morale to allied DWARVES and so does nothing either for ranged units or elves. Is there another Ale Barrel out there which I haven't seen yet ? It starts getting very confusing now.
Also confusing is a lvl 16 reaper at a state where you can beat Karador. Mine is 20 and I'm not finished in lotd. Can't believe the differences in rage gain between a mage and a paladin does 4 lvl on the long run.

[Elwin]

Ale barrel and telescopic sight is a set of items if you equip both it gives addtional 30% to critical chance of your archers.
As far is i know mage got rage ganing penalty, without rage draiing it raises veeery slowly, so can rarely use, also it depends on playing style tough, so i use rage drain and need rest frew rounds before i can realy use reaper, also i finish figths fast with offensive spells so i got less exp for spirits, and another think might be skill gaining exp for spirits i got only lvl1 of it.

[Elwin]

Now i see its random ^^ got lvl 9 reaper with timeback lvl 1-4 however i got low range atm but ots greayt i have it and will not have to worrry about that and i change tactic now, in first game i clered freedom islands and Kordar before atacking castle bogacho , now i decided to have him asap so i just did lucky James and stormed directly to Bogacho, so i got my reaper with lvl and whole freedom islands and Kordar to clear = lots of levels :)

[Vilk]

Amazing, when reading the text description of this rage skill I never suspect it was working like this. Eventually the translation isn't that good or it's a little hidden deliberately. I wonder how much marvels I don't suspect are hidden in the impressive diversity of this game. :-)

[Ryder]

I had a fight where all my 2000 odd Lake Fairies were killed in the first round (might of been second). I lost quite a few Dryads but had some remaining so used Time Back on them during round two. About 10 rounds later, I cast level one Resurrection on my Lake Fairies, then Time Back, and bingo, you have all your Lake Fairies back.

So dont panic if you lose all of one army, they can be saved much later on in the battle.

Gotta love Time Back.

[Vilk]

I had a fight where all my 2000 odd Lake Fairies were killed in the first round (might of been second). I lost quite a few Dryads but had some remaining so used Time Back on them during round two. About 10 rounds later, I cast level one Resurrection on my Lake Fairies, then Time Back, and bingo, you have all your Lake Fairies back.

So dont panic if you lose all of one army, they can be saved much later on in the battle.

Gotta love Time Back.

Rhaaa weird now tactic will be to have your pack dead! And I notice but didn't try that you can use call back on a dead corpse, then what's the effect?

[Elwin]

U cant timeback dead troop

[Vilk]

Ooops didn't see well then. :)