This is what usually happens in an attack from a P-47/Fw-190/P-51

[Black_Sage29]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/f5bb6872244d5e7c7c06ea2be1d7bafa/tumblr_mx1ksvF6Kf1r6tjvjo1_400.gif

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#B&ZIsFunAgain #Zoomers

[Woke Up Dead]

You mean they go too fast, misjudge their aim, and get only a glancing blow in before they stall and flip on their backs?

[MaxGunz]

In nature lions kill for food by suffocating their prey. They wound them to slow them down, panic them and try to keep them from struggling free (doesn't always work) but the coup is getting the snout of the prey inside the lion's mouth and holding them until they suffocate, not the neck bite that some other cats use.
Sure they fight with tooth and claw in territorial battles but they "go to checkout" when "shopping" as described above and yeah it was a shock to me when I found that out not many years ago.

Look where the lion ends up. Mouth to mouth with the zebra and the zebra might have run its last but we don't see the results.

Find the movie King Arthur to see both how and how not to run a slashing attack. Early on they do it right when saving Sean Connery as the Roman big priest (Cardinal or Bishop, I forget) and near the end they let themselves get slow and mixed into the melee and end up losing members.

It's not the plane that does the fighting. It's the pilot. Hartmann proved what works in a 109 just using position, speed, a hard move and brief close-in concentrated firepower. And even he didn't kill everything he attacked. But he did survive the war with the highest Ace-count and ran that up in about half the war.

[pandacat]

High speed slashing attacks requires a lot of training to do well. Besides that, try the following to see if that can provide a bit of help:
1. Try to fire at longer range. I used to be a fan of Klinge's doctrine of getting close and 150 converge. But my own experience tells me that's not necessary the best solution for everyone. I found my best killing range is farther out at 200-260 or even 300. I am a pretty bad shot and P-51s are very fast airplane. At 150, I could hardly get in 1-2 well aimed shot before i need break off. But at longer range, I had a little more leisure at aiming and scoring much better. 50's can make lethal damage even at 300. I had numerous 190a8's de-winged or blown to pieces at that range. Waste of ammo at longer range? perhaps, but if I can get 1-2kills and return home scratchless then I am happy. I know 10kills in one mission may be achieveable but I am not that good.

2. Pay close attention to your joystick's response curve, especially the pitch axis. This cannot be stressed enough. I used to listen to someone that 100 all the way is the best settings for x52pro. After months of flying, I can say that's completely BS. At the settings, getting a kill is difficult flying planes like p51, especially at making small stick adjustments. Also, you stall all the time. Later, I went back to stick settings 101 and set up my stick step by step from basic. Now aiming is much easier for me. Blowing enemy planes to pieces happens all the time for me in a P51. (recommend you read Bearcat's beginner guide on setting up fly controls).

So, if something is not going great for you, it may be the time for a change. Keep flying and keep adjusting.

[Woke Up Dead]

BUZZZ! Pandacat, MaxGunz, you're both wrong. The correct reply is "LOL."

Not enough smiley emoticons in my post? I was trying to be funny, instead I provoked an oh-so-serious discussion on Klinge's doctrine, months of practice with joystick settings, and earnest comparisons to nature documentaries and Sean Connery movies.

[K_Freddie]

In nature lions kill for food...
Maybe you mean the Lioness (Female).
The Lion is a lazy lounge lizard, that likes to rule the roost by bullying, and bonking whatever he pleases... the african way.
:grin:

[MaxGunz]

You mean they go too fast, misjudge their aim, and get only a glancing blow in before they stall and flip on their backs?

The lion went by the numbers and started a really good take-down of a much larger target which is why I didn't laugh at the lion. You want flank steak or leg?

Also that's not what I have seen "usually happen" on servers but then I never hung around long on noob servers.

I agree with Panda about shooting from longer range during BnZ but how far depends on how fast you're closing. With high closing speed I've fired a ranging burst from 400m, done slight correction and hit the hammer from 300m and had to break off by 200m specifically to avoid ramming but also to exit behind the target. The whole pass from 400m to break off happens in seconds, if the ranging burst isn't really close then it's time to zoom and set up another attack. And THAT is what I've usually seen including when I was the target, but then I didn't hang with mudhens.

I gets ma lulz from turn fighters and their self-made victimhood. :-P

[Black_Sage29]

BUZZZ! Pandacat, MaxGunz, you're both wrong. The correct reply is "LOL."

Not enough smiley emoticons in my post? I was trying to be funny

This

I gets ma lulz from turn fighters and their self-made victimhood. :-P


Turn fighting is usually more intense and fun. But sometimes when I'm B&Zing a target below Instead of climbing back up to alt, I like to stick around for a bit killing any targets in my path.

Then with my superior speed and energy, I out-turn any bandit behind me by pulling death-defying G's and out-running them before out-climbing them. You look like a jet in their eyes lol

[Derda508]

Just to kill a nice joke completely: The bishop in the movie is not Sean Connery but Ivano Marescotti. And King Arthur naturally would have used true british Spitfire arrows against German actor Till Schweiger with his Bf 109 broadsword.

[Woke Up Dead]

Just to kill a nice joke completely: The bishop in the movie is not Sean Connery but Ivano Marescotti. And King Arthur naturally would have used true british Spitfire arrows against German actor Till Schweiger with his Bf 109 broadsword.

No no, the 109 is a rapier, it's the 190 that's a broadsword.

[MaxGunz]

This




Turn fighting is usually more intense and fun. But sometimes when I'm B&Zing a target below Instead of climbing back up to alt, I like to stick around for a bit killing any targets in my path.

Then with my superior speed and energy, I out-turn any bandit behind me by pulling death-defying G's and out-running them before out-climbing them. You look like a jet in their eyes lol

All true. But if you can sometime, get a vertical or semi-vertical turn fight going. The intensity ramps up with the speed. Unfortunately for me, I have hypertension and had to forego that much fun on account of chest and head pounding after a few minutes. If I can't end it quicker than that, I have to let myself get shot down just so I can exit with an honorable loss rather than a dishonorable disconnect.

It all started with a post I read once about flying tilted egg shapes that got me out of low and slow and up to where I met and played with the big dogs. That and oh yeah, I have some gunnery/spatial-math abilities.

[K_Freddie]

Unfortunately for me, I have hypertension and had to forego that much fun on account of chest and head pounding after a few minutes.

I also suffer from hypertension, but get too excited when the going gets good that I cannot stop :D
It's like bonking.. you only feel it after the event.. when flying back to base, then the relief is that much better. :grin:

I've been accused of online 'heavy breathing' (voice activated mic) at one time.. it was embarrassing.

[MaxGunz]

i hope you get relief before it gets worse Freddy. It can. heart should not beat so hard when the body is almost resting. It's freaking scary!

Times like that, I just work on my flying skills if anything. And navigating. it's funny all the things you notice when you're not immersed in a fight.

[Laurwin]

i hope you get relief before it gets worse Freddy. It can. heart should not beat so hard when the body is almost resting. It's freaking scary!

Times like that, I just work on my flying skills if anything. And navigating. it's funny all the things you notice when you're not immersed in a fight.

Navigation errors can be downright hilarious sometimes.

I remember once we were flying bf109 in mediterranean protecting italian battleships.

Flight leader decided that east became west, and west became east (he basically mixed up the degree headings in his head)

I tried to talk him out of it, pointing out the mistake, on teamspeak but he wouldnt budge out of his decision. So, he had planned the route, but it went to the wrong place instead of to the location of the italian battleships.

Let's just say we diddn't find the battleships, we just found clear mediterranean sea, we had a pretty good laugh about it after the mission naturally :mrgreen:


As to the joystick settings.

I kind of like the 100 sensitivity these days. But, you gotta be careful with unnneeded stick movements. Such as when rolling, don't pitch up or down too much if you don't need to or don't want to.

At other times, and with some planes, like spitfire, I like 100 sensitivity, BUT a slightly exponential response curve (lower response in center, only slightly lower response in middle stick deflection, and normal response in high stick deflection)

The reason why I like the 100 sensitivity is that it helps in rolling manouvers and rolling scissors, flat scissors etc. It just feels so natural to me, if I want to roll the plane, put the gunsight on the enemy and shoot. I can roll the plane with exact movements of the stick.

Not some weird ass accentuated response curves.

hmm, maybe it's just a question of getting a feel for the difference though?

There should not be that much differnece though, which you can't overcome with being more attuned to the alternate stick response?

(such as, lower response in centre position, slightly lower response in middle stick deflection, and normal response in high stick deflection)

[Laurwin]

In full real battle, I think it also comes into identifying target positively

I mean, for sure, you can make the diving pass, but you can't realistically fire from too far away.

If you're really good at silhouette identification I suppose you can ID from farther away based on simply shape of bogey.

But I prefer to go to about 1km, you can see some decals and details at that kind of ranges?

For me, about 200-300m has been good firing range

Firing at shorter ranges / medium ranges allows less shooting time. BUT you usually get better target picture and it allows you to sort of concentrate on vulnerable areas of enemy plane better. Or so I feel at least personally.

[MaxGunz]

I use 50% FILTER on my pitch (Y) axis. It smooths motions slightly and gets rid of edge-of-digitizer-step flutter.

Coming in at over (usually well over) 100kph closure takes just seconds to cross 200-300m. Firing from deflection only increases closure beyond the difference in plane speeds. if I blip shots at 400m then I have barely time to make a small correction and get in a half-second or so burst before I have to turn to cross behind the target.

With wing guns not at convergence your shots will be along a line. Match that to the path of your target and bring it on in to convergence.

[Laurwin]

often times i do notice the problem with wing gun convergence (those tend to be my favorite /mosy flown aircraft)

it just sux balls when you fire too close to the enemy and each of the bullet streams from your own wings, hits the enemy's wings separately. (not enough distance for bullets to converge, I think)

rarely does it make enough damage to kill in one strike. But it does make some nice ventilation holes in both of the enemy's wings though.

[MaxGunz]

If you're that close and not going to ram,

1) your shots are coming from well below your sight, probably need to shoot a bit high
2) you can rudder back and forth to rake your fire across his fuselage all the while shooting around the IL-2 bullet soaking tail
3) you probably shouldn't be so close or co-E and may get reversed on

At speeds below 300 kph, if the other has a better sustained climb than you do then just hope that he doesn't think of it.