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stupidface
09-30-2008, 10:31 AM
Hi! :)

So far in my experience as a Paladin playing the game on Hard, I've found the following units to be amongst the best for the following reasons. I'd love to hear what you think the best and worst units are too. :) I'm only at level 15 now, so I can only say what's best up to halfway through the game.


Early Game:

Best:

Bowmen: Higher Damage and HP than Thorn Hunters, plus unlimited supply at home castle after completing a few King Quests. Bowmen may very well be your mainstay for ranged combat throughout most of your game. Their damage scales very well with the demands placed upon them by new, more difficult areas. By midgame however they do tend to die quickly, but they are easy to find to recruit.

Royal Snakes: Great melee units. Attacks cause no retaliation, plus they've got a short-range attack that does extra damage. Can command relatively large numbers, yet the unit still has good HP. Abundant supply in Swamps.

Swordsmen: The Damage-Resistance is great, and they've got enough speed to be very useful.

Peasants: Not the weakest unit in the game by a long shot, and their ability to stack Attack bonuses from having a large number of Peasants means that, for the early game, you're unlikely to have any unit at your disposal that can do more damage in any single attack than a full Peasant stack. Plus they're cheap!

Worst:

Thorn Hunters: They're cheap, one of the few ranged that you can recruit in the early game, and you can recruit a lot at any one time, but their very low HP combined with their short effective range means that you're likely to burn through the available supply very quickly. Ultimately it is probably better to replace them with melee animals like bears, or with Undead Archers if you can find them.

Robbers: In the early game, you pretty much NEED Peasants and Archers. Therefore the morale hit from recruiting robbers is too great a deterrent. By the time you have access to enough quality non-human troops, Robbers and Marauders are no longer attractive options when compared to Pirates and their ilk.

Priests: Their ranged attacks just aren't very damaging, and their utility in a fight is debatable. I think that about all that they're good for is fighting Undeads.

Middle Game:

Best:

Cannoneers: Great ranged damage and high initiative! The only problem is that there are so few to be found until you get pretty far into Dwarven lands. I would rate Cannoneers at least as good as Bowmen if not for the fact that they are so hard to find more to replace.

Evil Beholders: Ranged magic-damage that is much better than Priests or their ilk. Plus the ability to hypnotize an enemy stack into attacking its friends, or to force your own troop to attack a second time, is incredibly useful. These are my favorite ranged troop of all so far.

Orc Shamans: Their main use is by placing totems that distract the enemy, thus giving your ranged units more time to attack them and more time for your rage to build. Totems can even be used to stop an advancing enemy troop from being able to attack one of your own units for at least one turn. Their Axe Dance does pretty good damage that is comparable to what your Bowmen will be doing at that stage in the game. They are okay at melee, but personally I choose to keep them in the rear.


Worst:

Cyclops: Their price is just too high when compared against their staying power in a battle. By midgame you will routinely encounter enemies that can drop one cyclops per turn. Since you can only recruit about 4-8 at this time, and because they cost 5000, and are in short supply, you are likely to soon blow through both your available Cyclops troops as well as your stock of gold. :P They are fun to experiment with, but unless you have all the gold-boosting talents, they are not really viable. Maybe further into the game this will change though, when more are available and money is in bigger supply.

Goblin Axe-Throwers: Short supply, low HP, so soon you'll have a half-group of them that's ineffective in combat and cannot be replenished.

Peasants: By this stage in the game, the only thing they're really good for is distracting enemy troop. The bad part is that because your stack will be about 1000 strong and you'll lose at least half of that in many battles, replacing them starts actually to become expensive.



Ok, that's all I can think of for now, let me know which troops are working good for you. I'm curious whether Spectres are good troops, I just haven't tried them out much yet. Bye!

ThyrsaM
09-30-2008, 11:12 AM
Nice list. I ran into a couple of Ents early in the game. I like them so far, but only got two. They any good?

stupidface
09-30-2008, 02:22 PM
I haven't seen a single Ent, so I wouldn't know. :)

Another good point that I'd like to add about the Shaman is that their special powers regenerate. So if you're lucky you can set up two or three totems of any one kind - or both. This is very helpful for boss fights when the boss summons lots of helpers, for example the Giant Spider in the Dwarven mines. With three healing Totems and three damage Totems all on the battlefield at once, not only were most of my units protected from attack, but I could almost completely ignore the summoned spiders and let my damage totems deal with them.

So for me the best unit I've gotten so far is the Orc Shaman. :)

Swindley
09-30-2008, 03:01 PM
I actually disagree abit about the thorn hunters:)
Especially since I found a helm later that doubles their damage! Which is pretty cool:)

Also as a mage, I prefer having as much ranged units as possible so I can nuke the opponent while they slowly crawl towards me..

This also means I nuke off their ranged units first to minimize losses.

Shamans are great though, i love those totems:) I also use them to make the computer "waste" an attack to kill a totem instead of my troops.
I just wish there were more of them=/
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Zhuangzi
09-30-2008, 03:02 PM
GOOD UNITS

Yep, the Orc Shaman is a kick ass unit. Not many units can do ranged attack AND melee, but this sucker can. Thumbs up. :grin:

In mid game I find myself unit whatever is available. I used to use Royal Snakes and Griffins a lot, but there's no supply in Kordor so I gave up on them eventually.

Pirates and especially Sea Dogs are pretty good in Western Islands if you have Mirabella.

Evil Beholders are great fun, especially their mind control trick. :-P

Giants are okay too, especially if you've got 6-7 of them and plenty of mana for healing/defenses.

A big stack of Swordsmen or Guardsmen is nice, but after you sign the Dwarven peace treaty the main castle has a HORDE OF HORSEMEN! A stack of 70 of these is just mayhem on four legs. :-P

CRAPPY UNITS

I didn't like the Canoneer for some reason, and Miner's really suck.

And don't get me started on Priests and Archmages. I guess you need a really high intellect for them to be worthwhile.

I never liked the Thorns or Peasants, although I hear that some people have made use of them.

In general I never go for the lowliest unit in a particular class, like the crappy snakes or crappy spiders.

bman654
09-30-2008, 03:28 PM
I'm pretty early in the game but I am liking the priests and archmage.

The archmage is immune to those annoying wolf howls and I always use his defense spell on my melee units to cut down on attrition. He does reasonable damage when he uses his trance ability. I've even used the telekenisis ability now and then to push an enemy troop away from my units or towards their units so I can maximize my fireball effectiveness.

And the priests...now that I have some royal snakes I find the priest Bless spell useful as well as their healing spell (since the snakes have enough hp to make it worthwhile). I find that when I have the priests using those spells that frees me up to cast offensive spells on the enemy.

Perhaps when I get a little further I'll rethink this of course :)

Quikpik
09-30-2008, 03:30 PM
I found in the early game that bears rock. You will normally have a few vendors that sell bears, so you don't have to worry about losing them since there is a plentiful supply. They take a good beating and when enraged can deal a bunch of damage. These work much better as cannon fodder units than swordsman.

The worst unit in the game imo is the arch mage. I just don't get these units, very expensive with a high leadership cost.

Suporex
09-30-2008, 06:38 PM
I am lev 11 mage only but I have to say royal snakes are my favourite + I have added archmages guardsman inquisitors and priests to that + have max fireball so archmage "push" is definetly useful

but after reading your coments I have to find myself horsman and orc shamans :P

travcm
09-30-2008, 07:27 PM
Marauders are extremely good for building up boatloads of money. Even weak stacks at the beginning of the game can be looted (twice per battle) for upwards of 800 gold each time.

Sammual
09-30-2008, 08:24 PM
Here is my take on the units;

BEST:

Peasants: Until your leadership allows a stack of 300+ their ability to stack Attack bonuses make this your #1 melee damage stack. After your leadership gets high enough for 300+ in a stack it is time to move on.

Bowmen: Higher Damage than Thorn Hunters or Priests. Skills that decrease Leadership cost and give special abilites to make this unit last until you get Dwarven Cannoneers or Evil Beholders (Or even further if you are a Warrior).

Royal Snakes: Attacks cause no retaliation, good specials, low leadership cost for HP.

Swordsmen: The Damage Resistance makes them better then average. Use until something better comes along.

Cannoneers: Fast, Great damage, can melee.

Evil Beholders: High Ranged magic-damage, hypnotize alone makes them one of the three top Ranged units.

Orc Shamans: Hands down the best unit. Totems, Totems, Totems, Ranged, Melee. After you get sacrifice and Rez maxed I think you can break the game running around with 5 stacks of these guys.

A. Bears: Loads of HP and good damage make these guys your best early to mid game tanks.

Cyclops: These guys are tanks. They take almost NO ranged damage.

Giants: AoE Tanks.


Worst:

Thorn Hunters: Low HP.

Robbers: Neg morale.

Priests: Fast and Bless special is nice but low damage makes them almost useless.

Goblin Axe-Throwers: Low HP, they don't live long enough to show any potental.

Arch-Mage: HIGH Leadership cost makes them worthless unless you are a Mage that has maxed out the Arch-Mage skill and if you have done that then why haven't you replaced you Arch-Mages with Orc Shamans?

Polar Bears: WTF? A much higher Leadership cost then A. Bears and bearly higher stats.

Sammual

P.S. Does anyone have an excel spreadsheet of the units and thier stats?

knoxchris
09-30-2008, 09:34 PM
Are Shaman only available via the Islands? Or are there more later in the game?

bman654
09-30-2008, 10:33 PM
And how do you get more than one stack of orc shamans? Or any other unit? Everytime I buy a unit it goes into the same stack with the rest of my units.

Sammual
09-30-2008, 11:50 PM
When you have an empty spot hold shift and click on the Orc Shamans and then click the empty spot.
If you ever loose a whole stack just do that with any spell casting creature, put 1 creature in the spot and use them to buff your troops or lay down totems or loot corpses or.....

Sammual

kennec
10-01-2008, 02:15 AM
i realy like the elves archers. they are lvl 4 but do good ranged damage. prefect for mage.

i still use orc shamans alot in elven lands.

when do we get blackdragons ? my plan is to have an armgageddon nuker with black drakes only hehe

ai seem to attack them alot though so i have them between my giants and lvl 5 trees.

a unit i think look very cool are the demon/unded lvl 4-5 knights with black armour with gold on. when facing stacks of 150+ of these suckers i am back to kiting from lineage low lvl times 10 years ago lol. they can simply take so much punichment.

hickmanj
10-01-2008, 06:02 AM
I just reached Freedom Islands, but cleared pretty much the whole first part of the game with:

Bears
Dwarven Alchemists
Beholders
Royal Snakes
Griffons

Wolf howls cannot hurt me
The Griffons are handy if I have to deal with ranged units quickly
The bears and snakes both have a fair bit of "soak" ability
The Alchemists have some great ranged attacks

And, since I'm playing a mage, my fireballs usually support them quite well

I've had this army since the early game and am now about 1/3rd through the islands and doing well

fell
10-01-2008, 10:33 AM
Best units: Black dragons, Arch-daemons (all demons are great) by far.

Worst units: ghosts/thorns

Zogun
10-01-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm about to hit lvl 9, and the units I've been using so far is Bowmen, Priests, 3 stacks with Bears, Ancient Bears and Polar Bears :D

The bears are really slow, but their crits are just insane, and they can soak up a LOT of dmg. I'm gonna replace my priests with Orc Shamans as soon as I can.

Just my 2 cents. /Zogun

megakill
10-01-2008, 02:13 PM
I ended up having a stack of Giants, and 4 types of different Dragons. Couldn't hire too many, but 11-12 Black Dragons is good enough to kill almost anything that moves.

knoxchris
10-01-2008, 06:43 PM
Well i'm toward the castle in the elven lands after reading the book and my shaman supply is almost up. I just put the last 100 in reserves. Hope i find some more, for now i'll change my strat from totem tanking to something else. :)

stupidface
10-01-2008, 09:08 PM
I think it's really cool that this game doesn't just give you an unlimited supply of any unit that you want. :) It really forces you to make good decisions during battle to preserve your favorite unit stacks, and it keeps the overall game interesting by preventing you from sticking to only one kind of unit with only one kind of strategy.

Also from the responses this thread has got, it's clear that there are viable strategies for just about every unit; though one person might think one sort of unit bad, another person can say that they put it to very good use. So there are hardly any "trash" units, though I think it's becoming clear that some like the shaman might have slight "abuse" potential. Nevertheless, this game has MUCH better balance than other turn-based battle games, such as Gladius (which was still a good game!)

Good design, developers! :)

Bonar
10-01-2008, 09:56 PM
I ended up having a stack of Giants, and 4 types of different Dragons. Couldn't hire too many, but 11-12 Black Dragons is good enough to kill almost anything that moves.
Wouldn't your Green Dragons morale suffer (if you had them in your troop) if you put it alongside Giants?

Tuplis
10-02-2008, 12:30 AM
These are my favorite units:

Griffin: Excellent damage-dealers because of the unlimited retaliation ability. Just get them in front of the enemy and keep pumping resurrect while your archers shoot the living crap out of the enemy.

Emerald Green Dragon: Both talents are excellent for utility. The area attack spell can easily regenerate 25-30 mana every 3 turns while doing 50-70 damage to every enemy around the dragon. The other talent is also great, you can first make your dragon wait, then at the end of the turn you can make him drag an opponent one square so he's next to his buddies, then use the area attack.

Elven archers (both of them): Simply great damage. not against bone-creatures tho :(

Inquisitor: I use these to punish the undead, also as far as I know inquisitors have the only spell capable of resurrecting lvl 5 monsters. The other talent which blesses a target and makes it do 50% extra vs undead is also pretty good because of the fact you also get some rage.

Cannoneer: Salvo owns.

KuPPeRz
10-02-2008, 05:49 AM
A all melee army is a lot easier to use than what some people would think as well.

Right now I have Horsemen, sea dogs, swordsmen, peasants, and polar bears with archers and pirates as my reserves. When you use the "tactics" ability and can push those units out further, you use the peasant for more than just a tank, which is why most people think of them as a "useless" unit. To be honest, starting three hexes out and two rounds later, you got a counter-attacking 1 hit marathon with a pitchfork that some people really don't take advantage of, strongest unit with the highest count that is a tank as well??!! Jeez.... . Using "Haste" on peasants can be good too. Sometimes you want them to get somewhere quicker when they only move up two hexes at a time, but for the most part I find my peasant killing everything too damn quick for me to use "haste" on him more than 1 time.

In addition to having bonuses to these melee classes, I think it's only important to have 1 long range attack throughout the game for many reasons.

You want your characters to take damage, you want them to attack. Once that rage accumulates there are various spells to cast to eliminate single units slowly or all at once so theres no reason to have more than 1 long range taking massive hits, they just get weak, take damage, and then theres more than 1 unit to build back up. I know everyone has noticed "dragons, griffins, and bears, oh my" go straight for your long ranged units.

Using tactics to push your melee units out onto the grid further before the battle starts is one hell of an advantage, alongside with ice thorns. I use those two together going into a battle with the enemy being "Strong" or "match", I don't even lose 1/2 my units. It's all about ganging up on the one guy.

Have the long-range guy finish off the low count units on the opposing side, using defense when necessary and also attacking flying units. Nothing more to that.

ureal
10-02-2008, 03:48 PM
A all melee army is a lot easier to use than what some people would think as well

In addition to having bonuses to these melee classes, I think it's only important to have 1 long range attack throughout the game for many reasons.

I know everyone has noticed "dragons, griffins, and bears, go straight for your long ranged units.

Using tactics to push your melee units out onto the grid further before the battle starts is one hell of an advantage, alongside with ice thorns. I use those two together going into a battle with the enemy being "Strong" or "match", I don't even lose 1/2 my units. It's all about ganging up on the one guy.

That may be one way to do it but later when you face large stacks in the hundreds you will find your self taking huge loses. The main problem with melee units is retaliation so with a stack of 300+, even if you manage to kill 100 your unit will still take a huge hit, I find it better to use 2-3 range units. Firstly to take out archer and long range attackers, secondly to wilt down large stacks so that my units take less damage and I find it better to leave a stack with 10-20 units around instead of wasting turns and focus on the larger stacks.

In all my normal fights (I am in the islands) I have never lost more then 5 units fighting strong or match fights, only time I came close to losing 1/2 my units was against an upgrade fight where the gremlins spammed lightning and fireballs.

Currently in the island my group consists of evil beholder (mind control), dwarf alchemist (can melee up to 3 units, poison bomb), griffins (speed, retaliation), royal snake (no retaliation, lunge), inquisitors (resurrection and rage builder).

KuPPeRz
10-02-2008, 04:01 PM
You obviously missed the whole strategy, fortunately it's stilll there for you to comprehend it once more. You are opposing my strategy without trying it, I know this for a fact because I got them in the 4000's, i'm level 24, and I kill everything on hard. Sea dogs have an attack that swipes 3 hexes with only 1 counter-attacking, so it helps as well. Hitting the weakest unit is common sense.

Stuff is well over 100 stack by now buddy, sorry about your luck if you still can't kill anything.

stupidface
10-02-2008, 08:55 PM
You obviously missed the whole strategy, fortunately it's stilll there for you to comprehend it once more. You are opposing my strategy without trying it, I know this for a fact because I got them in the 4000's, i'm level 24, and I kill everything on hard. Sea dogs have an attack that swipes 3 hexes with only 1 counter-attacking, so it helps as well. Hitting the weakest unit is common sense.

Stuff is well over 100 stack by now buddy, sorry about your luck if you still can't kill anything.

No need to be mean about it. :( Nobody was trying to insult you...

KuPPeRz
10-02-2008, 10:09 PM
No one is being mean. Continue on with strategies please.

Kings Bounty Hunter
10-02-2008, 11:04 PM
These are my favorite units:

Griffin: Excellent damage-dealers because of the unlimited retaliation ability. Just get them in front of the enemy and keep pumping resurrect while your archers shoot the living crap out of the enemy.

Emerald Green Dragon: Both talents are excellent for utility. The area attack spell can easily regenerate 25-30 mana every 3 turns while doing 50-70 damage to every enemy around the dragon. The other talent is also great, you can first make your dragon wait, then at the end of the turn you can make him drag an opponent one square so he's next to his buddies, then use the area attack.

Elven archers (both of them): Simply great damage. not against bone-creatures tho :(

Inquisitor: I use these to punish the undead, also as far as I know inquisitors have the only spell capable of resurrecting lvl 5 monsters. The other talent which blesses a target and makes it do 50% extra vs undead is also pretty good because of the fact you also get some rage.

Cannoneer: Salvo owns.

:lol::lol:

fell
10-03-2008, 12:13 AM
You obviously missed the whole strategy, fortunately it's stilll there for you to comprehend it once more. You are opposing my strategy without trying it, I know this for a fact because I got them in the 4000's, i'm level 24, and I kill everything on hard. Sea dogs have an attack that swipes 3 hexes with only 1 counter-attacking, so it helps as well. Hitting the weakest unit is common sense.

Stuff is well over 100 stack by now buddy, sorry about your luck if you still can't kill anything.

Horrible strategy. Wasting spells to haste/buff melee units instead of just destroying stacks outright with offensive magic/rage/ranged units. Who wants to spend waste 10 rounds a fight that arent required. AND take more losses.;)

Protip: losing half your army against a "strong" opponent is not a good thing. Proper utilization of range/spells will allow you to destroy impossible armies and retain more than 50% of your forces. Most of the time i wont lose more than 5% versus anything but very strong/impossible.


Mage strategy near unbeatable strategy for almost any army composition. I use small stacks of the buffest units available with 1 trash stack for sacrifice. And 1 highest ini army to get early turn.

1st round. Summon 2 daemon portals on the enemy line blocking depending on the terrain to block a route to your forces. OR if the army is weak or mostly ranged units just target the ranged stacks with your strongest offensive spell. Fireball/icesnake etc. Put all units into defensive after positioning melee in front of ranged.

Round 2. Rock wall off the remaining terrain if possible. If not open two more daemon portals which combined with the first 2 portals and a rockwall will essentially segregate the battlefield in half. If the army was weak just spam 2 more direct damage spells on them. At this point any army below strong will be almost destroyed if you have been nuking them.

Round 3. Daemons should be flooding the army at this point use rage for Direct damage/gizmo.

Rount 4+ Place mana shields on the stacks on the thick of the battle and summon/necro call forces as is applicable.

You can destroy 99% of any army in the game with this strategy. Ive destroyed impossible armies with commanders 5-10 levels higher than myself.

phoenixreborn
10-03-2008, 01:17 AM
The game is flexible that all of these strategies are viable. No need to get nasty.

My own strategy centers around sending a phoenix out to block enemy archers and draw all the melee units around it. I have a high initiative unit to get first turn so I can do that. After that melee and archers/rage spirits finish stuff up.

KuPPeRz
10-03-2008, 01:31 AM
Fell you can get out of here with that "horrible strategy" talk. I know for a fact that my strategy works for the warrior. Your strategy is for Mages. Do you understand what that means? There are so many different strategies that can be used, don't talk about horrible strategies you don't try out.

I go 4 rounds and it's done. I use no offensive magic. I use haste,helplessness, and sometimes plague. My class doesn't call for using magic all the time.

The reason I even replied to this thread was because the talk about how peasants are a "useless' unit which they aren't, I can solely vouche for that. They are the strongest I have came across and I have no trouble getting around, constantly owning on "Hard" difficulty.

Swindley
10-03-2008, 05:09 AM
Back on topic:P

I just got the Royal Thorns and i LOVE them!
Initially they were just 4, but with some sacrifice help I now have 18:)
They have good hp and decent dmg, but the best thing is, that every 3rd turn or so, they can summon a huge stack of trash mob thorns! Like 4-500!
And enemies seem to switch to target summoned units instantly when I summon them. Also the summoned stack does decent dmg and is 100% expendable:) It seems random wether you get thorn hunters or warriors though:)

Edit: I actually also like catapults, their aoe fire dmg skill is usefull, and them doing 200% dmg against gremling towers made me actually able to upgrade a couple of hard artifacts:D
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fell
10-03-2008, 06:13 AM
Fell you can get out of here with that "horrible strategy" talk. I know for a fact that my strategy works for the warrior. Your strategy is for Mages. Do you understand what that means? There are so many different strategies that can be used, don't talk about horrible strategies you don't try out.

I go 4 rounds and it's done. I use no offensive magic. I use haste,helplessness, and sometimes plague. My class doesn't call for using magic all the time.

The reason I even replied to this thread was because the talk about how peasants are a "useless' unit which they aren't, I can solely vouche for that. They are the strongest I have came across and I have no trouble getting around, constantly owning on "Hard" difficulty.

Sorry your strategy is inefficient both in army compisition and tactics. Even crap strategies work. Its just that they are crap. Learn about basic strategy. Attack/defense ratio per leadership and the other fundamentals.

All melee is slow inefficient and you are guaranteed to take significant losses of even comparable strength force. Not using offensive spells with such an army enhances all its weaknesses and provides no benefits.

And you are outright lying about a 4 round battle versus another army of equal or superior numbers not using offensive magic... Thats so blatantly false i don't even know why you would say it.

megakill
10-03-2008, 07:07 AM
Sorry your strategy is inefficient both in army compisition and tactics. Even crap strategies work. Its just that they are crap. Learn about basic strategy. Attack/defense ratio per leadership and the other fundamentals.

All melee is slow inefficient and you are guaranteed to take significant losses of even comparable strength force. Not using offensive spells with such an army enhances all its weaknesses and provides no benefits.

And you are outright lying about a 4 round battle versus another army of equal or superior numbers not using offensive magic... Thats so blatantly false i don't even know why you would say it.

Well actually I managed to finish most of the battles within 3-4 turns later in the game. Played as Paladin, rarely used offensive magic. Summoned phoeniz all the time, then used ressurection, hypnotise and animate dead spells. Well the last one is not really a Paladin style, but worked for me and my Undead army :-)))

KuPPeRz
10-03-2008, 07:34 AM
Wow kid. coming on here, knocking my strategy and also trying to tell me what I know and do is not what I do. You seriously need to grow up and get a pair. My strategy works, I use it every round and do NOT suffer drastic drops in my units what so ever. You are a mage. I'm a warrior. All my stuff gives plus this and that to humans and/or great stats overall for my survival.

You really need to be put in check. I love how you think you can come on here, tell me my strategy is horrible that's very efficient for my class, and also try to tell me I don't do what I say I do. I'm sorry people lie about video games where your from so you are used to it, but this is a forum webpage where people share their ideas and try to actually help one another out. Take your "I know everything" attitude somewhere else.

fell
10-03-2008, 07:38 AM
Well actually I managed to finish most of the battles within 3-4 turns later in the game. Played as Paladin, rarely used offensive magic. Summoned phoeniz all the time, then used ressurection, hypnotise and animate dead spells. Well the last one is not really a Paladin style, but worked for me and my Undead army :-)))

Ya guy was claiming 4 rounds with an all melee army versus equal or larger forces using no offensive magic. Just wont happen and you will take substantial losses.

Using proper spells and ranged units most battles wont last beyond 2-3 rounds. I once destroyed an impossible army with my army at 50% troop strength just running around the map while i regened mana it took like 15 rounds haha.

KuPPeRz
10-03-2008, 07:46 AM
Correction: I claimed to kill enemies NOW within 3-4 rounds with an all melee class, I never said I am fighting strong enemies with 3-4 rounds with an all melee class but i'm sure it wouldn't take much longer than that anyways. Dude lets just face it, you don't know everything. Stop talking shit about other peoples strategies, your ruining this thread.

fell
10-03-2008, 07:53 AM
Correction: I claimed to kill enemies NOW within 3-4 rounds with an all melee class, I never said I am fighting strong enemies with 3-4 rounds with an all melee class but i'm sure it wouldn't take much longer than that anyways. Dude lets just face it, you don't know everything. Stop talking shit about other peoples strategies, your ruining this thread.

Someone pointed out your flawed strategy you then acted like a twat to them. I examined your strategy and have explicitly told you why its extremely flawed. No reason to get snippy. You asked for feedback and you have received it.

Use this as a lesson to improve and move on. Your constant sniveling it uncalled for so try to keep it on topic.:rolleyes:

megakill
10-03-2008, 10:23 AM
Actually towards the end of the game I stopped using ranged units at all.
My final army was - Giants, dragons, dragons, dragons, dragons :=)
I loved the Green ones for their mana recharge ability

kennec
10-03-2008, 10:39 AM
Actually towards the end of the game I stopped using ranged units at all.
My final army was - Giants, dragons, dragons, dragons, dragons :=)
I loved the Green ones for their mana recharge ability


ye green ones are wonderfull. wich places did u find em on?

megakill
10-03-2008, 11:30 AM
ye green ones are wonderfull. wich places did u find em on?

Can't remember exactly, plus actually there is a lot of randomness in the game, so every time experience is different.
I think there were some in the Undead lands, plus some eggs. Then there was some quest in Demonis(?) that sent me to Dragon astral plane, there were lot's of eggs of red and green ones. And then in Elven lands (in the maze) there were a few places that sold like 30-40 dragons each.

BurningCold
10-03-2008, 11:38 AM
My unit layout has changed many times to fit with both my suplly and the current area, but the following have been my key combos this far.

At the start i had priests, archmage, archers, swordsmen, and thorns (cheap and very powerful when combined with priests' bless)

Towards the IoF, i had basically the same except i had archers, swordsmen, guardsmen, sea dogs and pirates (both being in high supply and very useful)

Right now im in the dwarven lands, and have yet to get the knights from the dwarf king, so im running with Cyclops (powerful ranged tanks), cannoneers (pure rape with salvo), alchemist (not a huge fan at all of these guys but the supply and demand required me to use them), dwarves (these warriors arent the highest in number but are very strong and good tanks), and to fill in the last spot ive got miners which i use mostly like peasants as cheap cannon-fodder and rather powerful close range defender for ranged units when dwarves cant help.

Bonar
10-03-2008, 11:38 AM
Seriously, Kupperz, Fell, and Megakill. You guys could make a new thread and discuss about whose strategy is more effectives. Oh, back it up with video record of your tactic or something. Since I'm interested also to see that.

megakill
10-03-2008, 12:08 PM
My unit layout has changed many times to fit with both my suplly and the current area, but the following have been my key combos this far.

At the start i had priests, archmage, archers, swordsmen, and thorns (cheap and very powerful when combined with priests' bless)

Towards the IoF, i had basically the same except i had archers, swordsmen, guardsmen, sea dogs and pirates (both being in high supply and very useful)

Right now im in the dwarven lands, and have yet to get the knights from the dwarf king, so im running with Cyclops (powerful ranged tanks), cannoneers (pure rape with salvo), alchemist (not a huge fan at all of these guys but the supply and demand required me to use them), dwarves (these warriors arent the highest in number but are very strong and good tanks), and to fill in the last spot ive got miners which i use mostly like peasants as cheap cannon-fodder and rather powerful close range defender for ranged units when dwarves cant help.

I tried dwarven axemen or whatever they are called - mid level melee fighters. Saved me in Demon lands. The stack was giving out 6-7K damage with very few losses on their side.

KuPPeRz
10-03-2008, 03:20 PM
When using all melee with an archer, the units that can travel further like the miners were really effective. I used them once for the underground sea but wasn't receiving any bonuses for them since all my gear gives stuff to humans. Warriors having kids really isn't the greatest either. They give mana bonuses and it really isn't necessary to have mana with the warrior, or at least I don't really make use of it at all. I'm going to try the mage or paladin after beating the game to make use of all the units I pass up constantly.

Also, the sword I got that forces you to either upgrade it to the sword of light or sword of darkness was really badass once I got it as the sword of light. Helps a ton.

BurningCold
10-03-2008, 10:29 PM
@megakill: yeah the dwarf warriors are one of my favs, and ive got the beer keg which gives +1 morale to all my dwarves so its even better. Gotta love those midgets :D

Tibster
10-03-2008, 10:51 PM
12 Arcdemons, 80 Demons, 150 Hunters(Elves),200 Inq. , 100 Horsemen, 120 Black Knights, 150 Necros ,Some Red,Black Dragons , this is my pool from wich i chose the most sadistic way to obliterate my enemies !:twisted:

JGary321
10-03-2008, 10:54 PM
As someone earlier pointed out: Royal Thorns

They kick major butt. I have 16 of em. I have a helm that gives +100% to Thorn damage. (Helm of Blackthorn) They are by far my biggest damage dealer & plus they can summon 400+ guys. I have inquisitors in my party so I cast the bless spell & watch out!

Royal Thorn:

280 HP
20-30 damage (mine is 40-60 b/c of helm)

With bless that means each is doing 60 damage. I'm just entering the dwarves caves. Just got done with Island of Freedom.

Fate
10-04-2008, 07:27 AM
My first time through the game, i played as a Paladin on normal
Early game i used mostly human troops up. Bowman, swordsman, priest, archmage and guardsman. They die pretty easily but thanks to the resurrection spell i somehow managed to minimize casualty. Oh, i also tried the thorn hunters but their dying rate is too high and i can't ress them so i gave up on them. These served me till the IOF. There i picked up some sea shamans to replace my depleted troops since they isn't any except bowman in IOF. Shamans are pretty good units. Their ghost axe heal and their totems can distract the enemy. Their melee isn't bad either but i seldom got the chance to use them to melee.

Then at the dwarven lands, i met with the same troops supply problem so i swapped some troops with alchemist and cannoneer and at 1 time polar bears which turn out to be quite a tank.

At the elven lands i used elves, hunters, horseman, emerald dragons and druids. I used these to clear most of the elven and undead and demon land. However, i suffered heavy casualty at baal city due to the demoness swapping my ranged units out. So i reloaded and replaced them with demons (lol) and tried it again this time with better results. It basically become a messy battle with phantoms, summons, demon gates swapping here and there. Anyway, in the first place i intend these to be temporary units so i used them to clear the other city and all the other battles in the past which i considered as too much trouble. By the time i was done, i had only about 50% troops left and all that remain is the labyrinth which i havn't enter yet.

And so i did 1 more final (almost) restructuring of my troops into elves, hunters, druids, black unicorns, unicorns. Well, i love archers units so elves and hunters are a given. I also used the elven crown and got the elven princess. Druids give 1 morale to elves and can shoot too so i used that. I also found (very late) that all troops of the same race gives 1 morale too so i decided to do that. The sprites,fairy and dryads will probably drop like flies. The ents are tough but a little too slow and they can't be ressed. So the best choice are unicorns. Relative good melee ability, can be ressed and good against undead (Realised this a little late, should have used them earlier). So morale is at all time high now. Crits every now then with gizmo given extra turns, i proceeded to clear labyrinth and orc land without much trouble.

Until Hyaas himself. Unable to use my turtling strategy i decided to have some fun with my final battle. I went back and recruits all 4 dragons and ogre (filler). So i let them duke it out while casting mass dragon slayer and then armaggedon every turn after that. In respond the enemy also cast armaggedon (lol) so the battle ends pretty fast and 1/2 the army is dead but it doesn't matter at this point anyway.

In summary, humans troops are unexceptional and should be swapped as soon there are better troops available with the exception of horseman.

Dwarven troops are generally tough. Alchemist and cannonners are good for giving a heavy first strike before battle is met. Same can be said for giants but i find them more useful used by the computer than players. Miners and dwarves are pretty standard fighters i think (Didn't use them).

Elven troops are my favourite race. Elves and hunters are excellent ranged units. Druids so-so but they can also charm animals and summon bears (fodder). Their range is also area affecting so thats a plus. Unicorns are good against undead and pretty good on the offense too but die pretty easily. Ents are tough but don't really see much action actually. Never tried the sprites, fairy and dryads but i think i will try them for fun with the Ange's ring someday.

Undead troops i didn't use at all in the game. Facing them i think they are pretty mediocre units with the exception of the necromancer. Their advantage lies in the raising, life drain ability and immunity i guess. Bone dragons are the weakest for the dragons if it can even be considered a dragon. Maybe it is because of the items, skills and spells that gives player and edge over undead so maybe if player can use them to better effect.

Demon troops i think are the strongest race i think. My fav troops had to be the imps and scoffer imps. Their fireballs and strike and return ability is really good considering that their numbers are big. Cerberus is good on the offense but they drop fast. Demons are good melee and they can summon. Demoness i think is good for computer but not actually useful for players.

For the dragons, i think the emeralds dragons are the best actually since you can actually cast spells on them like phantoms and even heal them. They can also drain mp. They are weaker than the red and black but i think it makes for it with it.

Zhuangzi
10-04-2008, 07:35 AM
My first time through the game, i played as a Paladin on normal
Early game i used mostly human troops up. Bowman, swordsman, priest, archmage and guardsman. They die pretty easily but thanks to the resurrection spell i somehow managed to minimize casualty. Oh, i also tried the thorn hunters but their dying rate is too high and i can't ress them so i gave up on them. These served me till the IOF. There i picked up some sea shamans to replace my depleted troops since they isn't any except bowman in IOF. Shamans are pretty good units. Their ghost axe heal and their totems can distract the enemy. Their melee isn't bad either but i seldom got the chance to use them to melee.

Then at the dwarven lands, i met with the same troops supply problem so i swapped some troops with alchemist and cannoneer and at 1 time polar bears which turn out to be quite a tank.

At the elven lands i used elves, hunters, horseman, emerald dragons and druids. I used these to clear most of the elven and undead and demon land. However, i suffered heavy casualty at baal city due to the demoness swapping my ranged units out. So i reloaded and replaced them with demons (lol) and tried it again this time with better results. It basically become a messy battle with phantoms, summons, demon gates swapping here and there. Anyway, in the first place i intend these to be temporary units so i used them to clear the other city and all the other battles in the past which i considered as too much trouble. By the time i was done, i had only about 50% troops left and all that remain is the labyrinth which i havn't enter yet.

And so i did 1 more final (almost) restructuring of my troops into elves, hunters, druids, black unicorns, unicorns. Well, i love archers units so elves and hunters are a given. I also used the elven crown and got the elven princess. Druids give 1 morale to elves and can shoot too so i used that. I also found (very late) that all troops of the same race gives 1 morale too so i decided to do that. The sprites,fairy and dryads will probably drop like flies. The ents are tough but a little too slow and they can't be ressed. So the best choice are unicorns. Relative good melee ability, can be ressed and good against undead (Realised this a little late, should have used them earlier). So morale is at all time high now. Crits every now then with gizmo given extra turns, i proceeded to clear labyrinth and orc land without much trouble.

Until Hyaas himself. Unable to use my turtling strategy i decided to have some fun with my final battle. I went back and recruits all 4 dragons and ogre (filler). So i let them duke it out while casting mass dragon slayer and then armaggedon every turn after that. In respond the enemy also cast armaggedon (lol) so the battle ends pretty fast and 1/2 the army is dead but it doesn't matter at this point anyway.

In summary, humans troops are unexceptional and should be swapped as soon there are better troops available with the exception of horseman.

Dwarven troops are generally tough. Alchemist and cannonners are good for giving a heavy first strike before battle is met. Same can be said for giants but i find them more useful used by the computer than players. Miners and dwarves are pretty standard fighters i think (Didn't use them).

Elven troops are my favourite race. Elves and hunters are excellent ranged units. Druids so-so but they can also charm animals and summon bears (fodder). Their range is also area affecting so thats a plus. Unicorns are good against undead and pretty good on the offense too but die pretty easily. Ents are tough but don't really see much action actually. Never tried the sprites, fairy and dryads but i think i will try them for fun with the Ange's ring someday.

Undead troops i didn't use at all in the game. Facing them i think they are pretty mediocre units with the exception of the necromancer. Their advantage lies in the raising, life drain ability and immunity i guess. Bone dragons are the weakest for the dragons if it can even be considered a dragon. Maybe it is because of the items, skills and spells that gives player and edge over undead so maybe if player can use them to better effect.

Demon troops i think are the strongest race i think. My fav troops had to be the imps and scoffer imps. Their fireballs and strike and return ability is really good considering that their numbers are big. Cerberus is good on the offense but they drop fast. Demons are good melee and they can summon. Demoness i think is good for computer but not actually useful for players.

For the dragons, i think the emeralds dragons are the best actually since you can actually cast spells on them like phantoms and even heal them. They can also drain mp. They are weaker than the red and black but i think it makes for it with it.

Totally agree with the bolded part; I used Horsemen the whole way through the game. In general I think the units are well balanced due to the way Leadership works. Sure, Black Dragons are best, but they cost 2,500 in leadership EACH, so you won't have more than 10 ever.

I think the key to selecting units in this game is to have a mix of melee and ranged units, and most importantly to make best use of any available artifacts/equipment. For instance, I found Anga's Ring to be insanely powerful for female fighters, thus I used a lot of Demonesses, Sprites and Lake Fairies. I also liked the Undead's Black Knight. He is a tank. :-P

Tuplis
10-04-2008, 08:38 AM
In summary, humans troops are unexceptional and should be swapped as soon there are better troops available with the exception of horseman.

I agree for the most part except I think inquisitors are great being able to resurrect dragons and having that bless-undead-killing-rage-thing

Fate
10-04-2008, 10:44 AM
Ah, inquisitors. I stopped using them around the time when i got resurrect lv3. But thats before i got the emerald dragons. They weren't bad but hardly available on the map. I could upgrade them from priest but i had no space in my space to swap. Eventually i phased them out for more offensive punch. They are good against undead though.

Newbie1234
10-04-2008, 06:51 PM
I'm level 10 around the Islands of Freedom, and currently using:

Bowmen: Great for Ice Arrow and solid damage

Priests: Great against Undead. Bless and Heal take up a turn so end up not being all that useful unfortunately.

Beholders: Their sleep has has decent percentage and essentially disables one enemy.

Seadogs: Very available around the Islands, and they're pretty solid.

Archmages: I disagree with the hate on this unit. Their attacks have a good percentage of shocking an opponent and removing all their action points. The shield is pretty powerful for helping melee to tank, telekinesis has its uses from time to time, and they don't suffer from range penalties.

tvez
10-05-2008, 04:01 AM
OK I've solved the game as a warrior, and started again as a mage before i realized i was losing my life, and had to uninstall. So anyway here's my take on the best units:

Royal snakes: Can't say enough about how good these guys are, all the way until nearly the end, when i replaced them with ogres (i'll talk about how awesome ogres can become below). The no retal is one of the best melee abilities to have for melee units, for obvious reasons. But almost as important is their sheer maneuverability, especially with haste. If you do it right, you can slow enemy units, have these guys weave around and snipe from a distance, and they always go first -- meaning you can have them wait, and then they basically move twice (once at the end of the round, and once at the beginning). In the hands of a good tactician, these are the best melee units in the early and mid-game, and arguably even the end. They also have an excellent ratio of leadership cost vs. health/att/defence/damage.

Orc Shamen: I agree with everyone above. Good all the way to the end game.

Evil beholders: mind control, combined with hypnotize, can keep the enemy busy beating up his own units while you snipe them from afar. And they do great damage. An excellent unit.

Ogres: If you have the ogre sandals and ogre club, these are great (+20 dam, +1 speed, can take huge damage, no morale penalties to other units, like giants vs. elves). I replaced snakes with these after too many of my snakes were getting killed by dragons and high level spells. Their ability (which doubles their attack for two turns, adds two action points, and recharges) is excellent, and recharges.

inquisitors: Good to the end. The added resurrection is just too good to pass up, and their attack ain't bad either.

SO WHAT DID I HAVE AT THE END?
Well, since my wife was elven and I had an elven crown, I ran around with a stack of:

Elven archers (high morale), Elven hunters (high morale), shamen, ogres, inquisitors (good morale)
In reserve: giants (got bonuses from ogre club/sandals but lowered morale of elves) and knights (high morale, and circle attack made it a killer -- especially against dragons, which you find a lot of at the end).

If I knew I was going to be in an all-melee fight (with a lot of dragons for example) where my ranged units would be worthless, I would switch out the elves for the giants and knights, drop a mass dragon slayer, and let them come in for a beatin'!

mike123
10-05-2008, 11:38 AM
lvl 13 atm, going through the dwarven mines... untill now my army practically never changed...

- swordmen: like... they're the best basic unit i have tried till so far. I've been carying them around all 13 levels now :)
- ancient bears: KILLER beasts. Especially when they go into double rage... They are my favorite unit so far!
- inquisitors: i liked em but i switched over to evil beholders once i got to the freedom island
- marauders... highly effective killers
- griffins... again very nice beasts.

never lost a fight so far (I'm playing 'easy' settings tho). I couldn't find any more evil beholders so i switched to "dwarves" to replace them. My army i kinda melee orientated but my mage spells cope for the loss of ranged units.

KuPPeRz
10-05-2008, 12:58 PM
Ya I kind of figured it would be a cakewalk on easy. I'm playing on hard and I lost 2 battles in the beginning before I knew that clicking on a enemy displays his power compared to yours. Once I went to the underground sea, ran into a centaur demon, and I immediately lost somehow. I didn't go back down there to find out either :)

Sky Keeper
10-05-2008, 01:12 PM
hm. Don't think they removed sea devils (lvl1 fishy with high crit rate and awesome damage under bless) from English version.... So

Best damage dealers:
Sea Devils - they do crit often when you are at full rage..., Skeleton Archers

CC:
Dryads, evil eyes (supply problems, never had a full stack), shamans, archmages (move 1 cell, 50% resist to damage)

I was playing a pally. My army at lvl 12 consisted from Sea Devils, Inquisitors, knights, 1 CC, 1 more damage dealer or CC. changed some stacks as levels and zones go by, but never replaced fishes and rezers.
I was trying to itemize for Attack, use magic and rage to prevent losses (CC)(slow, teleport, trap, summon phoenix and the like..., mirror 1 stack, , stone wall, ice ball, reverse time for a unit, , glot's armor, Recharge all abilities to stack on Inquisitors, or 1 extra turn on Sea Devils). Had no problems on hard - a fishy crit was usually enough to kill 1 stack with other options available to prevent/fix retalliation.
Had giants at one point when it was hard for enemies to do 5000 damage, so they were healable.
Can't imagine my life without "Tactics" skill - it opens alot of options in a fight. Also 30 extra runes in might and magic trees allow for tons of options.

Darkhon
10-06-2008, 01:17 AM
Early Game I love Inquisitors and Priests.

My initial stack:
Bowmen
Priests
Something heavy to attack with (Griffins this time around, initially it was guardsmen)
Archmage
Inquisitors (sure I only get 4-5 initially, but they are there to bless! (they get a bless + rage)

Then just Magic shield + bless and heal and send in my heavy attacker while my bowmen plink away. Get the rage up and drop an evil shoal on them if I can trick them into lining up nicely!


I so wanted to try a different tactic, go with robbers and maruaders or something, but the above mix really works well for me, especially because having one mega stack that can't be killed means I don't have friendly fire from my AOE.

Late-Middle Game I definitely enjoyed having Knights/Horsemen/Griffin and then Priests/Inquisitors and Bowmen. Same basic tactic.

Never realy made it to Middle Game imho yet. I've made it as far as the Dwarven lands before I realized "Holy heck! this game is huge, let me start over and try it this way..."

LiveInABox
10-06-2008, 06:17 PM
lvl 13 atm, going through the dwarven mines... untill now my army practically never changed...

- swordmen: like... they're the best basic unit i have tried till so far. I've been carying them around all 13 levels now :)
- ancient bears: KILLER beasts. Especially when they go into double rage... They are my favorite unit so far!
- inquisitors: i liked em but i switched over to evil beholders once i got to the freedom island
- marauders... highly effective killers
- griffins... again very nice beasts.

never lost a fight so far (I'm playing 'easy' settings tho). I couldn't find any more evil beholders so i switched to "dwarves" to replace them. My army i kinda melee orientated but my mage spells cope for the loss of ranged units.

yea i agree ancient bears are great. im on normal and on freedom isles, (level 11). thing is i havent seen ANY ancient bears to buy yet (were a load in the demo). masses of evil beholders in the swamps though..

anyway ive jut got to the ork settlesment on freedom and just bought some shamans for the first time so will see what they are like.. my fave units so far tho are Royal snakes and evil beholders.

AigisFan
10-06-2008, 08:37 PM
im new to the game, and pathetically am playing on easy but so far............the most annoying troop ive encountered has to be the werewolf. i imagine theyll get harder but turning into wolves and fearing my troops or making them go into a frenzy can be quite deadly.

Xelian
10-09-2008, 10:02 AM
The game is flexible that all of these strategies are viable. No need to get nasty.

My own strategy centers around sending a phoenix out to block enemy archers and draw all the melee units around it. I have a high initiative unit to get first turn so I can do that. After that melee and archers/rage spirits finish stuff up.

I usually use a different army in the different regions. I'm a Mage so i mostly use archers.

Greenwort
Bears Bowmans Alchemists Priests and i don't remember what else.
Islands of freedom. Bowmans with a lot of meele units(pirates sea dogs guardsman, Marauders) you can recruit there. With the Jackboots i've got they act before the enemy which is in most cases with the same army.

Kondar Cyclops Canonners Polar bears Drawers and Evil eyes.

I'm now in Elven Lands and i Still use the Evil eyes and Cannoners despite they lower the morale of my other 3 elven units - Hunters Dryads and Werewolfs. I had Anba's Ruby from the Holy Indulgence quest and my dryads are awesome. The item gives +3 to attack defence speed initiative and morale to all female fighters. With the high speed no retaliations and 3 ******* useful abilities this makes the dryads one hell of an unit. It can summon cannon fodder, sleep low level enemies and increase the initiative of my elves :).Not to mention charm and beauty when fighting humans. I can't wait to get demonesses though.

By far i consider Cannoners and Evil Eyes to be the most useful units for me. The double salvo is great and the hypnosis can prevent one heavy hit. Most unuseful unit... Hmm. Thorn Warriors, peasants, Archmages sucks too.

Namel
10-10-2008, 01:49 PM
Cursed ghosts.

First time I am trying them and I just love them (Except sounds). They can tank stack of about same size and actually gain more units during fight. I started with 10 and now I got 30. And I have sacrificed about 100 of them to build up other units that are not sold on pirate islands.

waveform
10-10-2008, 07:38 PM
Ha! Just had my first stack of cursed ghosts and kept wondering why they kept going out of control, immediately judging them as the buggy pieces of ****. Must've been their ability to, err, multiply. And going over the leadership count.

==================================
Awesome units (with some management)
==================================

ZOMBIES!
How come no one hasn't appraised zombies! Either the decaying kind or the normal kind. They're perfect shock troops. They're TOUGH, "fast" and are just made for taking that first retaliation strike. Availability seems pretty good, too. Initiative might be a bit of an issue but it's something that can be lived with. How did I ever manage to get anything done without my emplo-- zombies. Totally beyond me. Use with Haste.

GRIFFINS
Haven't employed them much but the unlimited retaliations and the high speed, HP and initiative, combined with a defensive spell (Stone Skin, Magic Spring) and you can't stop wondering if they would make the perfect assault stack, the one that is most likely to get hit most often. In fact, you just might want to park these next to enemy's ranged unit and never attack, just defend every turn until they've retaliated everything to death.

INQUISITORS
Not useful as a whole but they have one major advantage that deserves attention. The resurrection ability. How is their ability to resurrect any different from the spell, you ask? They can raise dragons. And other high lvl creatures, whereas the hero spell stops working at creature lvl 4. Consider letting them just stand under the Invisibility spell for the first few turns so they won't attract ranged attacks, since that's what AI seems to be fond of doing. Getting rid of ranged attackers first. Then later resurrect the troops that your spell version can't do.

ARCHMAGES
Yeah, yeah... not very high damage output. It's not the lightning attack but the armor spell they have. Use it on those Griffins I mentioned. Keep an eye on if the enemy stack gets shocked and use it to your advantage. Expensive old buggers, though.

BERSERKERS
God how I love these crazy little homicidal psychos. Even though never under your direct control you can slap a defensive spell on them and watch them go. Adjust your moves to theirs. Moderately expensive, since they don't usually last very long. Keep a huge stack in the reserve slot if gold is not an issue.

=================================
Units that just don't manage in the job.
=================================

Spiders. Too fragile. Every last one of them. You're fired. All of you.
Wolves. Same thing. Clean your desk and go.
Hyenas. Gah! If only they had more HP. In other words, too fragile also. Don't bother coming in tomorrow.
Bears. All of them. Polar and Ancient ones are only worth even remotely considering but all in all it gets expensive and tedious replacing them. Too slow and too narcoleptic for my liking. You're lucky I don't sue you for sleeping on the job. Now go.
Miners. Ho-hum. Boring. Can you see the paint dry as they walk around? No special abilities either. Time to retire, old man.
Thorn plants. Ugh. More weaklings. Royal Thorns might kick some ass. But that requires hiring them, which requires finding them in adequate amounts first. Sorry, but I'm just going to have to let you guys go.
Snakes. Other than Royal Snakes. Too weak and fragile. You're fired. *snake hand*

Kosiciel
10-10-2008, 11:50 PM
Cannoneers. Especially with Scope and Keg set (which adds 30% crit bonus). Total ownage salvo first, high hp, high initiative, even some fire res! And siege gun, to suppress/upgrade items easier :) Orcs have catapults, but they're not so good, and fire kills them too fast. Human archers die way too fast also. Must see elven units yet.

LiveInABox
10-12-2008, 08:25 PM
I really like the Veteran Orks...their counter attack ability is great.

Kings Bounty Hunter
10-13-2008, 12:42 PM
My main gripe with Cyclops is you ocan't heal them with magic, or can you some other way? Im in Kordar mines using Warrior and at level 15 A)14 D)22 I)6
and i'm finding it tough going I must say.

I really must settle on a strategy this time round as my previous go at the game on normal with mage was great! I used hypnotise/sacrifice (of enemy units) and resurrect to replenish units and was doing well in the Elven lands/Land of the dead but this time I can't even find the hypnotise scroll grrrrr

kennec
10-13-2008, 10:04 PM
My main gripe with Cyclops is you ocan't heal them with magic, or can you some other way? Im in Kordar mines using Warrior and at level 15 A)14 D)22 I)6
and i'm finding it tough going I must say.

I really must settle on a strategy this time round as my previous go at the game on normal with mage was great! I used hypnotise/sacrifice (of enemy units) and resurrect to replenish units and was doing well in the Elven lands/Land of the dead but this time I can't even find the hypnotise scroll grrrrr

u can get hypno scrolls from the hypno neckledge if u find that.

Kings Bounty Hunter
10-20-2008, 01:03 AM
I'm still unsure which is the best 5 to use if money is not an object :confused:

lethul
10-20-2008, 10:30 AM
I'm still unsure which is the best 5 to use if money is not an object :confused:

dragons ?

renton
10-20-2008, 10:40 AM
yeah, my final army was black dragons, red dragons, emerald dragons, orc shamans and knights. Pretty unstoppable.

Kings Bounty Hunter
10-20-2008, 11:07 AM
yeah, my final army was black dragons, red dragons, emerald dragons, orc shamans and knights. Pretty unstoppable.

No Griffins hmmm or Elves!:grin: The other thing is and I think everyone should state this before they blab on about how great they are, is which class you are using i.e. Mage, Paladin etc

I'm using Warrior (which I regret) on hard level

Xelian
10-20-2008, 12:17 PM
dragons ?

Definitely dragons. But it depends cause if you fight demons their fire damage isn't very good.

Kings Bounty Hunter
10-20-2008, 01:46 PM
Definitely dragons. But it depends cause if you fight demons their fire damage isn't very good.

Red or Black Dragons are a waste of time against Demons.

Zhuangzi
10-20-2008, 02:30 PM
Agreed, but they are very good against Haas' dragons, especially if you have the Dragon sword and Dragon cloak, which you should have at this stage. Hell, I think there is a Dragon shield as well. :cool:

Kosiciel
10-21-2008, 06:42 PM
You get Dragon Cloack after killing Haas' incarnations... ;p
And there is Dragonslayer shield, +6 def and 50% less attack for (enemy) dragons.

Kings Bounty Hunter
10-21-2008, 07:53 PM
You get Dragon Cloack after killing Haas' incarnations... ;p
And there is Dragonslayer shield, +6 def and 50% less attack for (enemy) dragons.

should you kill Haas before clearing out Demonis cause I am struggling like f*ck here with the Warrior (pussy)

Renevent
10-21-2008, 10:41 PM
My favorites so far (I am level 19)

Evil beholders - Good damage, good initiative, and their special ability to mind control enemy units is awesome. Not only does it cause them to hurt another enemy stack and themselves, but it also makes them loose a turn.

Polar Bears - Best bear troop imo. Many times after a *really* tough battle (like upgrading to archmage staff) they are one of the only units left.

Canoneers - High intitiative, good damage, and the extra damage vs building is usefull when upgrading items (against those goblin towers).

Inquisitors - Not the best damage wise, but they can raise dead troops, and the can bless a unit which also gives you some rage.

Cyclops - Good unit with good damage and high health...unfortunetly I only found one place that had them so their usefullness was limited after the supply dried up.

That leads me to a question...are the units availible for hire at all the various locations random?

player1
10-22-2008, 01:13 AM
Hi! :)

Priests: Their ranged attacks just aren't very damaging, and their utility in a fight is debatable. I think that about all that they're good for is fighting Undeads.

They are not just good. They are great for fighting undead in early game. Espeically ghosts, since priest attack is magical and bypasses their physical resitance.

As for attacking other things, it's true, they are not so great, but using their bless ability to "power up" their attack is a must in those cases to keep them viable.

I didn't like the Canoneer for some reason, and Miner's really suck.

Cannoners are great with their barrage attack. Rarerly any ranged unit can match that damage potential.

Unfortunately their regular attack is much weaker when compared to other ranged units that need less leadership. At least, they suffer no melee penalty and have pretty good health.

Wolves. Same thing. Clean your desk and go.

I disagree. Wolves are great in early game, if facings lots of human troops. Especially, if you have some priests to bless them to almost double their damage. Negating enemy archers is especially nice.

Of course using them in such way to not let enemies retaliate is a must due to their low health. Still possibile with their high speed and high damage potential when blessed.

Sherwood
10-22-2008, 06:54 AM
I've only started going to the dwarven lands, but my favorites so far (played mage and paly on hard to both areas) -

Royal Thorns - if only they could be resurrected ... stupid plant :rolleyes:

Polar Bears - gotta love them as tanks

Dwarf cannons - love their initiative and salvo

Archmage - versatile unit... shield is awesome for melee units

Royal Snakes - love no retal

Marauder - $$$ , Rina + chieftan belt make them quite viable for damage and income

Sea Dogs - with Rina + chieftan belt these make fantastic units during freedom islands.

Demon (level 4).. - I got a few in Darion and with good use of sacrifice I can see the hype for all demon units ;).

Haven't got hold of level 5 units, beholders or shaman yet, but I'm sure they wont disappoint.

Elucard
10-23-2008, 07:25 AM
I am playing warrior 21 lvl right now (19 att 21 def 13 int 82rage 72 mana) (rage spirits level 14(red) 15(green) 18(blue) 19(black) ) and my army consist of Cursed Ghosts (110) Acient Vampire(79) Black Knights(95) Necromancers (70) and canonners(65) . And i really liked this combination. Vampier and ghosts are tanks , vampires usually got stone skin and ghost peacfulness (bc u can sacrifice more and lost less of them ). So only undead army makes me problems but all another armies are quite easy to defeat. Especialy when u kill 50% of stack of living units with Gurdian of temple spirit (and it has only 2 rounds rest). When fought with spider boss i stared with 95 ghosts and finish fight with 211 it was really funny watching how they random attack troops .

Zhuangzi
10-23-2008, 08:44 AM
I've only started going to the dwarven lands, but my favorites so far (played mage and paly on hard to both areas) -

Royal Thorns - if only they could be resurrected ... stupid plant :rolleyes:

Polar Bears - gotta love them as tanks

Dwarf cannons - love their initiative and salvo

Archmage - versatile unit... shield is awesome for melee units

Royal Snakes - love no retal

Marauder - $$$ , Rina + chieftan belt make them quite viable for damage and income

Sea Dogs - with Rina + chieftan belt these make fantastic units during freedom islands.

Demon (level 4).. - I got a few in Darion and with good use of sacrifice I can see the hype for all demon units ;).

Haven't got hold of level 5 units, beholders or shaman yet, but I'm sure they wont disappoint.

You need Sacrifice for getting more Royal Thorns. A stack of 20 of these is very nice. Only problem is they are vulnerable to fire, and enemy heroes love to throw fireballs at them. Use Peasants or Miners to Sacrifice for Royal Thorns.

Stever717
10-25-2008, 01:01 PM
=================================
Units that just don't manage in the job.
=================================

Spiders. Too fragile. Every last one of them. You're fired. All of you.
Wolves. Same thing. Clean your desk and go.
Hyenas. Gah! If only they had more HP. In other words, too fragile also. Don't bother coming in tomorrow.
Bears. All of them. Polar and Ancient ones are only worth even remotely considering but all in all it gets expensive and tedious replacing them. Too slow and too narcoleptic for my liking. You're lucky I don't sue you for sleeping on the job. Now go.
Miners. Ho-hum. Boring. Can you see the paint dry as they walk around? No special abilities either. Time to retire, old man.
Thorn plants. Ugh. More weaklings. Royal Thorns might kick some ass. But that requires hiring them, which requires finding them in adequate amounts first. Sorry, but I'm just going to have to let you guys go.
Snakes. Other than Royal Snakes. Too weak and fragile. You're fired. *snake hand*

Thanks for the laugh Waveform, nice style :)

P.S. Send those bears my way, luv them :cool:

blueparrot1966
10-26-2008, 02:40 AM
Sammual,

I'm working on a spreadsheet for the units, and I've made a lot of progress, but there are two problems.

First, I've only had the game a short while, so it's pretty incomplete so far. I doubt I'm even halfway through the game.

Second, .xls isn't a valid file format for uploading. Is there a workaround for that? I'd rather post it somewhere than have to email every person who wants it.

Namel
10-26-2008, 02:50 AM
Sammual,

I'm working on a spreadsheet for the units, and I've made a lot of progress, but there are two problems.

First, I've only had the game a short while, so it's pretty incomplete so far. I doubt I'm even halfway through the game.

Second, .xls isn't a valid file format for uploading. Is there a workaround for that? I'd rather post it somewhere than have to email every person who wants it.

Many ways to do spreadsheet of units. Here is one version already on forums:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=5103

Worth checking so you don't do same work that is already done. :)

blueparrot1966
10-26-2008, 05:39 AM
Thanks. I was just totaling the stats up, along with abilities and talents, so I could make some overall sense of which units worked best overall. This is actually a lot MORE information than I expect to use, but as you say, better not to reinvent the wheel.

Sherwood
10-26-2008, 07:16 AM
You need Sacrifice for getting more Royal Thorns. A stack of 20 of these is very nice. Only problem is they are vulnerable to fire, and enemy heroes love to throw fireballs at them. Use Peasants or Miners to Sacrifice for Royal Thorns.

I haven't found even 1 Royal thorn on my hard paladin =(.

I found 2 on my hard mage and brought them up to cap though.

Currently I've found my sweet spot of units on my paladin (about 1/2 way through dwarf lands)

Full stack of griffins (have item that reduces leadership by 30%)
Shamans
Archmages
Inquisitors
Giants or Cannons (depending on the encounter)

I was struggling to find the right match of units, but this works waaay better than any combination yet. I can't say I have no casualties... but its no less than a couple units per on hard fights. Griffins/totems take the brunt of the attacker. The main spells I'm using are res/mana spring/trap/phantom ... and sacrifice only if I'm running out of a specific unit. Giants are great as a guard for my ranged units, and otherwise they make passable archers.

bsctgod
10-26-2008, 05:55 PM
Here's what I am currently running with, level 16 Knight, close to finishing up the dwarf lands.

Giants - Slow, but with Running and haste they get where they need to go.
Horsemen - high level unlimited supply grunt.
Griffins - Do the griffin quest and you're set for them.
Archmages - Just have trouble keeping them out of my armies they are so useful.
Inquisitors - Same.
Reserves: tons of Horsemen and Griffins

Basically the Griffins and Horsemen are the grunts. I expect to lose a few per battle, the rest I can usually preserve their numbers without losses. Buff up the griffins with the Archmage armor spell, and Inquisitor's Holy Anger and let them retaliate against everything. I haven't had much luck finding a good source of Inquisitors so I maintain and increase their numbers with Sacrifices on Giants, since one or 2 castings will not kill a Giant for my Knight.

I used to run with Polar Bears and Royal Snakes instead of Giants and Horsemen. If I had an unlimited supply of the snakes, they would be in my army in a heartbeat. The Polar Bears were too slow and in short supply when my leadership surpassed max numbers available. I found a new source so I may put them back in when I get level 3 Haste.

Crocodil
10-29-2008, 11:32 AM
First i was mage and i found 2 royal snake ring and that makes my royal snakes god like ( one ring gives you 3 to damage and poison ability => my royal snakes have damege 12-15 phisic and poison ).
Second i was a warrior and i found crown of the elves and i married with the elves female and all my elves warior became very powerfull moral high .

So if u take them as they are this is my list

Best units with no help from hero
Shamans - they are the best
Veteran Orcs - unique ability (2 strikes)
Royal Snakes - no retaliation
Cursed Ghost - 50% armor against phisical atack , drains life
Emerald Green Dragon - good abilities
Demons - better then griffons same ability furios (unlimited retaliation)
Evil Beholders - mind control

Worst units
Peasants - low hp
Miners - low hp
Goblins
Spiders all of them
Thorn- Warriors

Metathron
10-29-2008, 04:11 PM
Dryads are another excellent troop. They might be physically weak, but their abilities are amazing for a mere level 2 troop: summoning thorn warriors and, more importantly, lullaby - putting all level 1-3 enemies to sleep for 2 turns.

On the other hand, Cyclops are pretty disappointing.

Sherwood
10-29-2008, 07:21 PM
Yeah, I've grown to rather dislike cyclops myself. They are the first level 5 creature you get, but their ranged damage is worse than any other equivalent stack of decent archers. They were pretty useful when I had 3 casters, cyclops and griffins as they are decent at range as well as if any units come near your troops.

Il_Pollo_Diablo
10-31-2008, 02:28 PM
Great thread!
So I have a question: Many people say how great Evil beholders are for the Mind Control ability. Thing is the description says "Takes control blah blah ... whose total Leadership does not exceed 180"
So I'm wondering how is this useful, do stacks this small ever appear in the mid-game?

sector24
10-31-2008, 02:38 PM
You have to multiply that number by the number of Beholders you have in your stack. So roughly, if your leadership is in the 11,000 area, a full stack of Beholders can charm a stack whose leadership does not exceed 9,500. That is very doable, if not on the first turn then after they've take one or two hits.

MajorS
11-01-2008, 04:00 PM
http://mysite.verizon.net/resw4bgk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/favorite_units.jpg

Fairies are the best damage dealers with Angas Ruby and Issharas Whip.

Green Dragons are very good mana supply. Helps especially when the battle reaches Resurrection mode (only a slowed opponent stack for mana draining left). In combination with Mana/Rage charges this helps extremly with resurrecting losses.

Inquisitors + Gift = unlimited Lev 5 unit resurrection.

Dryads + Gift = unlimited sleep for lev 1-3 units and also a good damage dealer with bless from Inquisitors.

Giants are very good midgame AoE damage dealer and shield (especially against archers using target). Too slow for engame tho.

Archmages absolutely underrated midgame unit. The combination Shield + Target + Giant basically gives an arrow magnet with 1800 Health, that can easily be healed. Also against Karador on Impossible: Griffons (with the -30% leader Reagalia) + Shield(Archmages) + Stone Skin + Target = extreme Tank with unlimited Retaliation that all sorounding troups attack. Especially deadly with Necromancers that damage all units around the Griffon when attacking and so kill their own troops.

Those were the main combat units, for the final fight i used: Paladins, Knights, Ancient Ents, Unicorns and Lake Fairies, avoiding the heavy Focus on magical damage(bad against dragons) of the normal setup combined with damage resistance.

Monks are also exceptionally good against undead, beating archers by far.

Kings Bounty Hunter
11-02-2008, 05:31 PM
I'm still waiting for a comprehensive best unit report :-P

It seems that Fairies/drayds are the best damage dealers but they are very weak so its russurect through the whole game?

Next!

MajorS
11-02-2008, 07:50 PM
The idea is not to get hit in the first place. Especially on impossible when battles towards the end are all have a "very strong" to "impossible" rating.

g52
11-03-2008, 09:28 AM
I'm using following setup:

1. Inquisitors
2. Red dragons
3. Emerald dragons
4. Evil Beholders
5. Shamans

6. Royal thorns
7. Black dragons

Rage spirits used: Glot's armor, Ice orb, Time back

Spells used: Hypnotise, Ressurection, Gift, Blind, Gift

Usually fight opens with (have +initiative on first turn talent) hypnotise + holw wrath + beholders taint + ice orb + shaman's totem + dragons pick on 1 other unit. After that it is piece of cake and ressurection time for all units.

Right now i'm playing paladin on normal, killing Haas labyrinth without losing a single unit.

bam65
11-04-2008, 11:05 PM
Where do you find some of the early to mid-level units at? I like the royal snakes but I only found them at the bear/wolf place in Arlania and already burned through them. I found sea dogs at one place in Freedom Islands but I can't remember where. Are there any maps out there that show locations and info about the recruitment sites?

MajorS
11-10-2008, 11:48 AM
Royal Snakes can always be found at the Witch hut in the cave in Arlania(spelling?) dont forget to use the little arrows to scroll through available troops.

kadrzys
11-12-2008, 12:24 AM
also try to make some quests at swamps (for those froggy brothers) and some Royal Snakes should appear in their castles.

MajorS
11-12-2008, 12:25 PM
also try to make some quests at swamps (for those froggy brothers) and some Royal Snakes should appear in their castles.

Not always available. But worth a try.

Lathspell
12-07-2008, 05:39 AM
Up so far I did FI, Dwarf and Elven lands with something like Shaman, Horseman, Royal Snake, Inquisitor + Griffin or Bowman/Cannoneer.


I had heavy supplies of Royals Snakes in the swamp (around 2500-3000, lucky me) so I got the frog wife and they just cruised throught most of the fights. They really tend to be one of the best units in the entire game. I only dropped them when I went to Death Lands. Something about poison resistance :P.

Inquisitors are a key unit in the game all the way up to the point you find your Ressurection spell. Happened late in Elven Lands for my mage. I don't really appreciate them being strong against undead, as undead were rather scarce throught the game so far, save for the cemetery in the swamps. And...well...the Death Lands...But their ressurection ability, coupled with Gift, is a must for any non paladin class. And the Holy Anger buff is great for charging up mana for those Evil Shoals. Damage's nice as well.

Shamans, the stallers in my battle. Again, a must for any mages or ranged users. In the begining, the totems slow down the enemy enough for some extra shots/spells, and after the stacks get high, they soak up an attack, which is great. The other totem provides extra armor and healing for my snakes and griffins, increasing their durability. Their axes are just extras, usefull, but I could go without them. What really amazes me every time they get hit is their awesome durability. 180 hp and heavy armor. Hell, they're tanks too...

Griffins are imo just the perfect receiver for Source of Magic, and any self respecting mage should use them as such. Kinda the only reason I use them. Switched them out when I went on low supply for cannoneers.

The last slot I would have liked it filled with some king of mega tank like a Knight, but I couldn't find any until after I saved the queen, so I settled for the sweet Horsemen. They can deal some pretty decent damage and always ensure me first strike in combat. Also they have some nice stats, and are Armored and Fire Resistant, so they can soak up some damage as well.


Well I for one chose my army for the mage point of view. I don't need them to deal damage, I just need them to eat it up and slow the enemy down until I can cook my opponent with spells. Well, that except for the Snakes, love the snakes...the snakes own stuff hard. They were the best units I could find up to the demon lands, but I switched all of them out for an elven only army, because supply just got too short, and I wasn't in the mood of traveling back on forth from Ellinia to Darion to restock on Horsies and Snakes, Dwarven Lands for cannoneers or to screw around with sacrifice alot. I have only seen the demons in battle a couple of times, but I might switch my current elves for them once I see what my Demon Lands mall has in store for me.

lanstro
12-11-2008, 09:54 AM
Having completed impossible as a mage, with a strategy of minimising losses at all stages, the best units I found for a mage were:

Levels 1-15
Royal snakes, inquisitors and any 3 ranged units
Offensive spells and ranged units decimate the enemy ranged units, and once the enemy only has melee left it's pretty easy. Inquisitors res at the end if required.

Levels 15-22ish
Sprites (eventually switched to dryads around when you get to elven lands), inquisitors, orc shamans, emerald dragons and elves
The sprites/dryads do pretty much as much damage as all the other troops combined (using the +3 to everything for female fighter ring, of course). With some careful use of wait to take advantage of their high initiative, timeback and resurrection, you won't lose any of them even if they are a bit fragile.
Orc shamans are great for all the reasons mentioned in this thread already.
Emerald dragons keep your mana stores up, and can pull enemy troops that are close to reaching your ranged troops away from them.
The elves are the least important unit in the combo - could have replaced with any ranged. Royal thorns would've been ideal but I didn't have any in my game and didn't find the +100% damage crown.

Levels 22-30
Once you get armageddon, all you need is one stack of dryads. They have a very good hps to leadership ratio (perhaps best in the game?), so they can survive 2 or 3 armageddons in the first 2 rounds of combat (then get timebacked and start afresh).
In addition, they have good initiative and speed, and plant thorns/lullaby are both rechargeable skills. Once the fight gets down to them only having slow-ish melee units, it doesn't matter how huge those stacks are, they will die eventually to your dryads because they simply can't hit them.
With this strategy I was able to clear every single end-game mob on impossible without loss.
Note: highly doubtful that this strategy will work as the other 2 classes since they can't launch 3 armageddons in the first 2 rounds!

Gatts
12-11-2008, 10:13 AM
I still can imagine that the armageddon strategy could work for war/pal as well... maybe not as easy as for mage, but well... some changes in the strategy and if the gamer can accept some end battle loss, still win is a win... ( used armageddon as warrior sometimes, but then I turned back to old warrior mob tactic, not that armageddon wasn't effective, but I was bored quite a bit... and well - sure I missed the second same turn cast [higher magic] as well mana pool was lower (as I usually have Xeona +2 weapons or Rina MOB +2 weapon :) I can stock up with archdmagi staffs and druid staffs... +18 INT , 2 of both )

fable
12-11-2008, 03:50 PM
The best units are Ancient Vampires, in bat form. Their damage is low, but it's enough to get raised to full after attacking, even against overpowering enemies. They're prime target for sacrifice too. As a paladin on impossible, I rarely had to run around to replenish units. I try to keep a big stack of living units to last, alternating between casting sacrifice and mana spring, and using cloud of poison. Occasionally I used time back on the enemy unit to have more blood to suck. Fights can take really long but it's still faster than buying units. Normal vampires can hit harder but they have lower defense, from Haas' labyrinth I started using both. However, neither were good enough for the undead area or the final fight.

Other units I liked:
- demoness (to switch the vampires with an archer unit)
- dryads (good to preserve some blood for the constantly sacrificed vampires)
- shamans (to save a few hits with totems)
- red dragons (black ones can't be raised with sacrifice)