Aircraft performance fall off with Win 7? last call for explanation

[Pugo3]

Just one more attempt to see if there is any explanation for a general aircraft performance drop in Il-2 1946 from Win XP to Win 7?

I bought a very good gaming Win 7 laptop in 2009 after my Toshiba Win XP laptop went belly up. For almost 3 years I had thoroughly enjoyed Il-2 1946 on the XP laptop, but with the new Win 7 machine I noticed a decrease in aircraft performance from the beginning, though it took some time to sink in.

All aircraft I flew seemed to be about 10-15% underpowered in my new Win 7 set up. The one that stands out most is the F4U Corsair, where I would use the throttle as deftly as any other control during a tight close in rolling dogfight with an Oscar 20' above the water. It really required fine controll, or in you went, but you could master it and do amazing things. With the Win 7 laptop, I need to keep the throttle wide open, it always feels like a 'wallowing fight' All dogfights are this way, the AI less aggressive and fast, my machines hard to hold in fine manuevres due to underpowered state. Kills the fun real quick. This is true of all the aircraft I fought with, a real disappointment that I tried to remedy for years. I upgraded to Win 7 Pro, followed much advise, etc. The aircraft in another flight simm I use also are diminished somewhat from XP, so it doesn't seem to be a problem with Il-2 1946 per se.

I posted on the IL-2 forum and was pretty much met with blank looks, so apparently this is not the case for Win 7 users. If anyone else had this experience, it would be helpful to get an explanation. Some have mentioned framerates and that 'it may appear to be slower...' ,no, it IS slower - 3 years experience, you get to know your aircraft intimately. Think of having a motorcycle that you've driven for years; you know exactly how it handles. You then experience a performance drop, and some dolt leans in a tells you it's in you mind, but he's a tech expert, don't you know. Please, don't be that guy.

I have lapsed in playing the game due to this fall off, and am finally able to move on getting a new set up, so perhaps my suffering will end, but I would still like to know why the performance drop in aircraft performance. May never find out, but thought to give it one last attempt. Thank you to anything you can provide to this end.

p3

[SaQSoN]

Check your joystick settings and calibration. This is the only thing, that may change together with OS change.

[IceFire]

An OS change isn't going to have any effect on the flight models so basically the only thing that it could be, as SaQSoN points out, is input related.

Do you still have Windows XP available to you (i.e. is it an old system). Why not do a test run with a stop watch and see how long it takes for the Corsair to accelerate to top speed at sea level using the same testing methodology. Between the top speed reached and the time it takes to get there should give you an indication on if there is an actual change or not. It may also help zero in on what exactly appears to be different...again something as simple as the joystick sensitivity settings requiring an adjustment may be it.

[KG26_Alpha]

Windows 8 the corsair is faster :)

Seriously though..........

As already said it can only be the settings in your IL2 thats different or incorrectly patched/corrupted version.

[K_Freddie]

I'm not sure how the physics are modeled but you might find that your new CPU/GPU has more 'maths options' (MMX/XMM/SSEx and whatever's on the GPU) to choose from, as compared to XP on the older laptop.

If the game is using these options for physics calculations, and its different to what it was on your old XP laptop.. the results will be different. What you getting now is probably what the devs intended the physics to be like.

A slight adjustment in your flying skills would help you re-enjoy the game again.
;)

[IceFire]

I'm not sure how the physics are modeled but you might find that your new CPU/GPU has more 'maths options' (MMX/XMM/SSEx and whatever's on the GPU) to choose from, as compared to XP on the older laptop.

If the game is using these options for physics calculations, and its different to what it was on your old XP laptop.. the results will be different. What you getting now is probably what the devs intended the physics to be like.

A slight adjustment in your flying skills would help you re-enjoy the game again.
;)
The physics might be calculated faster leading to faster frame rates only. You can't take shortcuts here with a slower or faster CPU... otherwise multiplayer would be a write-off. So no... not likely to be the case.

Some games benefit from having the extra GPU backing to produce visual effects related to physics (i.e. StarCraft II will show more debris being tossed around and interacting with the environment) but the gameplay physics have to be absolutely, 100%, identical. I'm not sure if there is a margin of error here but it would have to be small.

[Derda508]

Maybe a very stupid question, if so I apologize.
Are you really sure, you installed the same version of the game (patch) in XP and in Win7?

[Pugo3]

Thanks, I do not presently have XP available for such a comparison, but appreciate the suggestion.

As to joy stick calibration, I use the same CH Products joystick/rudder pedals as with my old set up [actually a warranty replacement-refurb of each type] with my Win 7. I never fussed much if at all with varying numerical values, just the standard CHP calibration.

[Pugo3]

I installed 4.07 from the same install DVD for both computers, and after some time finally patched my later Win 7 set up up to 4.10.1. Being that I noticed the drop off early on while in the familiar 4.07, it doesn't appear to be a error or corrupt install, but thank you.

[Pugo3]

Check your joystick settings and calibration. This is the only thing, that may change together with OS change.

Thank you, I use CH Products with my present Win 7 and with the older XP, left them pretty much alone as far as fine tuning the various numerical inputs available for such tuning - I just calibrated them within CH Products Control Manager.

Can you please inform me how I might be able to achieve greater power or somehow address the key complaint, that being apparent lower power problem I described? What settings are you reffering to that would effect max power - the unstable flight aspects I mentioned are only a result of this lack of top end power or acceleration when needed.

Thanks to all for the inputs,

p3

[b5523482]

I've noticed in another beta that there can be lots of interrupted functions and exceptions. IL-2 also manages to run when the screen is stuck. So there's a lot going on in the background even when nothing happens on screen. A few games lose functions on newer, faster hardware. So indeed it is possible that you now play a more complete game or even a gimped one.

My advice is to test for this by throttling down your CPU either in Win 7 settings, via BIOS or 3rd party software. It might be worth a try.

[sniperton]

I installed 4.07 from the same install DVD for both computers, and after some time finally patched my later Win 7 set up up to 4.10.1. Being that I noticed the drop off early on while in the familiar 4.07, it doesn't appear to be a error or corrupt install, but thank you.

Is it not due to the changed AI and FM since 4.07 and 4.10.1? Just a question. The 'feel' of the game has changed a lot in the past few years.

[K_Freddie]

The physics might be calculated faster leading to faster frame rates only. You can't take shortcuts here with a slower or faster CPU... otherwise multiplayer would be a write-off. So no... not likely to be the case.
There is a difference between the different maths units on the processor. Intel documents this (1000s of pages). if IL2 chooses FPU/GPU on an XP laptop, and MMX/XMM/SEEx on the new laptop, the results depend on the Options used for each maths unit.

I doubt whether UBI or TD have worked on this yet, with regard to C or C++ compilers as these are not the best solutions, other than absolute control of your compilation process - not offered with C or C++ compilers as of yet.
:cool:

[ElAurens]

Guys, I think Pugo3 is comparing V4.07 with V4.10.1, yes there will be a rather pronounced change in the way that aircraft behave if that is the case.

Pugo, on the deck dogfighting a Ki 43 with a much heavier Corsair is a formula for failure.

[Woke Up Dead]

Guys, I think Pugo3 is comparing V4.07 with V4.10.1, yes there will be a rather pronounced change in the way that aircraft behave if that is the case.

That's what I thought too, but he also says this: "Being that I noticed the drop off early on while in the familiar 4.07,..."

It's definitely odd, especially when he mentions that it also affects another flight sim on his computer.

Pugo, there was a recent thread here by Horseback with acceleration charts, see if you can replicate some of his results or if you really are 10-15% slower. It won't change your perception of the aircraft feeling worse than before, but at least you'll know you don't have a real disadvantage.

[Pugo3]

I've noticed in another beta that there can be lots of interrupted functions and exceptions. IL-2 also manages to run when the screen is stuck. So there's a lot going on in the background even when nothing happens on screen. A few games lose functions on newer, faster hardware. So indeed it is possible that you now play a more complete game or even a gimped one.

My advice is to test for this by throttling down your CPU either in Win 7 settings, via BIOS or 3rd party software. It might be worth a try.

Thank you, please advise on how I might try this or perhaps a recommended software to use? Hopefully a simple first attempt as you mentioned by adjustments to the Win7 settings via BIOS - can you walk me through or direct me to a posting/forum, etc?

p3

[Pugo3]

There is a difference between the different maths units on the processor. Intel documents this (1000s of pages). if IL2 chooses FPU/GPU on an XP laptop, and MMX/XMM/SEEx on the new laptop, the results depend on the Options used for each maths unit.

I doubt whether UBI or TD have worked on this yet, with regard to C or C++ compilers as these are not the best solutions, other than absolute control of your compilation process - not offered with C or C++ compilers as of yet.
:cool:

Way beyound my understanding, but basically that different processors can produce different flight interpretations?

[Pugo3]

Guys, I think Pugo3 is comparing V4.07 with V4.10.1, yes there will be a rather pronounced change in the way that aircraft behave if that is the case.

Pugo, on the deck dogfighting a Ki 43 with a much heavier Corsair is a formula for failure.

Actually, I made my comparisons with 4.07 on both machines, as it was some time before I jumped to 4.10.1.

It was a learned process, mostly not panicing after getting nailed many times, but you can use those beautiful flaps as you begin a low to medium speed dogfight with a Ki-43, along with the throttle inputs to pull you through. It would most often be a series of roll over/under, canopy rolls, rolling siccisors with sprial towers. You could look for an opportunity and gun the trottle to get the H... out of there if things began to look bleak, then come back in for another go. It is this particular dogfight I most lament losing in the performance difference between computers. [I did mention that the AI are not as agressive and nuanced either, somewhat lackluster and not nearly as aggressive and challenging] Perhpas with Win8 in my coming desktop - I can hope...

[Pugo3]

That's what I thought too, but he also says this: "Being that I noticed the drop off early on while in the familiar 4.07,..."

It's definitely odd, especially when he mentions that it also affects another flight sim on his computer.

Pugo, there was a recent thread here by Horseback with acceleration charts, see if you can replicate some of his results or if you really are 10-15% slower. It won't change your perception of the aircraft feeling worse than before, but at least you'll know you don't have a real disadvantage.

Thank you, I will be reloading my Win 7 Prof and all software next week, so I will try this as soon as I'm up & running.

p3

[K_Freddie]

Way beyound my understanding, but basically that different processors can produce different flight interpretations?

Not that difficult..

If the game sticks to the FPU maths unit through all cpu's, the difference will be slight, maybe barely noticeable, as even the FPU unit is upgraded in next generation chips.

BUT if it now decides to dump using the FPU for faster XMM maths units, the differences might become apparent, as the XMM units (ect) do not conform completely to the original FPU specifications.

The game is written in C/C++ and Java (if I'm not mistaken) and the maths units underlying features would be hidden from the developer, unless he/she specifically gets into the details of each.

This is just speculation... as I think TD does not have access to the engine, and probably only Oleg and the original devs might have these details of what the engine does.
:)